Did Hospice rush your loved ones death?
I have posted on here many times and answered questions every now and then. Dad passed away Oct 7th 2013 from Liver Cancer . He was in a hospice facility for 11 days until he died. The day before he was admitted he was in the hospital and was talking,eating and very clear headed but his ammonia levels were high and he had been very combative, not eating and wouldn't take his meds for 4 days at his nursing home. ( He was in for a Psych Evaluation.) The hospice worker talked to me about admitting him instead of returning to the nursing home. I agreed to this and arrangements were made. He was transferred later that day and was alert and in good spirits. The next morning he was unresponsive and stayed that way until he passed. They gave him morphine and ativan around the clock. He never got any water but they did cleanse his mouth and moisten it with swabs. It seemed like he could hear me the first few days because I would shake his shoulder and say "dad". His eyes seemed to be moving under his eyelids and his mouth would move slightly. I did ask about them lowering his dosages so he could wake up a little. The nurse said he was getting a very small dosage already. I just wonder if the drugs made him unresponsive and if less was used he could have ate and drank and lived longer. I know it was time for him to go but I'm kinda puzzled about his going from complete alertness and straight into unresponsiveness so quick. The nurses did a Great job. I myself don't know how they do it. They treated dad like he was their baby. So gentle and compassionate. I was just wondering if anyone else had the feeling that death felt a little rushed once their loved one was placed in Hospice.
I am so sorry that your father is gone. I am glad that you had hospice with you to help you through it. They may have hastened his death slightly by trying to keep him comfortable, but it would probably been by very little. If his liver was failing, he wouldn't have handled food well. I have the feeling that they made it as easy on him as they could. I hope that God is with you as you mourn his loss. One day you'll be able to tell him the extra things you wanted to say. I just hope that day isn't anytime soon.
In the letter explaining the autopsy results my husband's doctor said, "I am frankly amazed that he survived as long as he did despite the burden of very severe Lewy body disease and atherosclerosis."
I am sorry for the loss of your dear father. There is no precise way of knowing whether he would have gone a few days sooner or later without hospice care. You can feel confident that you did what you considered right. That is all any of us can do.
My 42 year old sister was diagnosed with Stage IV colorectal cancer in late August, 2007. She had surgery in September and had chemo and radiation, but neither did any good. She was able to return to part time work for a couple of months, but had to stop working because she could barely walk. Two days after she stopped working, she could no longer walk without a walker. Over the next week she stopped eating and became unresponsive. I called the emergency number and she was moved to the hospice facility. She was in so much pain from the ambulance ride that it took hospice about 3 hours to get her settled so we could see her. She was on a morphine pump but completely out of it. She did respond once when my other sister came in, but wasn't making any sense.
I had promised her that I would not let her be in pain. I knew the cancer had spread to her liver and lungs and probably her brain, but I didn't know about the brain for sure. She passed away after eight days. I don't know how much she could hear us, but I kept telling her it was OK to go and to go in peace.
Here's what I wanted to say: She knew she was dying and wanted to go peacefully. I feel that I was able to honor her wishes by keeping her on the morphine. The nurse told me that her form of cancer is one of the most painful types because the tumor pressed on the nerves to her legs.
Secondly, I have decided for myself that if I am ever diagnosed with the same kind of cancer (I have a high risk not only due to heredity but also because I have had ulcerative colitis since 1983) that I will only accept palliative care. I too want to go quickly and with as little pain as possible.
My heart goes out to you, Suzy, and I pray that you will be given peace in knowing that you loved your mother and she loved you. Peace to all who have been in our situation.
The OP of this thread should be tared and feathered for making this statement "Topic".,(Did Hospice rush your loved ones death?)
Ya right sure!...Blame it on the helpful Hospice for your loved one's death?
Where was you when this was going on? If so, Why didn't you prevent it?
(She was in so much pain from the ambulance ride that it took hospice about 3 hours to get her settled) In Pain and you blame hospice for the pain? Come -on!
Your only allowed so much morphine for pain by Law. And your Loved one I'm sure was told to fill out a Living Will.
I must say How dare you attempt to throw blame on hospice. That's uncalled for without proof of some type of abuse from hospice of cause. If you seen something and didn't prevent that's your fault not hospice. Sounds very harsh what I'm saying to you. But,your accusing hospice for blame of death is wrong without proof of such claim. Knowone can control all pain to none without a result. There's no cure for cancer and no cure for the pain to none. I understand your sadness watching the pain of a loved one. No excuse to throw blame to others if you your self didn't attempt to prevent. Sounds like you your self needs to accept some blame before pointing to others. Hospice is the best in that time of need.
Here's what I wanted to say: She knew she was dying and wanted to go peacefully. I feel that I was able to honor her wishes by keeping her on the morphine. The nurse told me that her form of cancer is one of the most painful types because the tumor pressed on the nerves to her legs.
The reason it took the hospice staff three hours to get her settled was 1st...the paramedics could not get the gurney down the hall and into her room and had to put her in a sitting sling, very hard when someone has colorectal cancer. 2nd...we were in the middle of a blizzard and the facility was on the other side of town, about 10 miles away. It was a dangerous and bumpy ride. 3, It was very early in the morning.
The hospice people wanted to get her pain under control before they allowed us to see her. They put the morphine pump in once she got there; they may have had to give her some other pain meds too and allowed them time to work. They did NOT WANT one of our last memories of my sister to see her in incredible pain. When we were allowed in to see her, she was resting peacefully in bed with a robe on and her hair combed.
The reason I called the emergency number in the middle of the night was because I didn't think the meds I was giving her by mouth were taking care of her pain. I had promised to let her go without pain...that's why I didn't want the hospice facility to cut down on the morphine just so she would be able to MAYBE open her eyes and respond to us. I would never want someone to be in the position I was in, having to decide what is best for my sister in her final hours, but that it what we do when we care for someone. Instead of "blaming" hospice for my sister's death, they allowed her last days to be comfortable and without pain. I'm sure you want the same thing for your loved ones.
Please re-read everyone's posts....we all have the right to ask any question on this site without feeling attacked by someone else's opinion.
I have no experience with a for profit hospice it could be more beneficial by saving supplies and nurses time if the patient died quickly. I can not comment on that
And you obviously are confusing who said what in this thread. Why bother to keep track of that when you can just indiscriminately throw out accusations?
Mthr still says - 34 years later - the doctors killed her mother, which is a totally ridiculous statement. It was her time, but sometimes people don't want to face reality and go find someone else to blame. I think that happens a lot when people die in hospice, in hospitals, and under care. We don't like being confronted with mortality. If you think you might need hospice for your loved one's care, read Byock's Dying Well (book) which explains the processes.
My father was advanced stage Alzheimer's when he developed pneumonia for the second time in 2 months. The second time he was not responding to antibiotics, they could not feed him pureed foods because he could no longer swallow. He was completely unresponsive to us and the the staff. Dad made it clear he did not want to be kept alive by feeding tubes, ventilators or any type of machines. We honored his wishes and health directive, all food and water was stopped, he only received morphine. He passed away 5 days later. I admit that during those 5 days I struggled with thinking we were starving him and dehydrating him so he would pass sooner. After I talked with an RN, she explained to me that by stopping food and water, you are making the person more comfortable as their bodily organs are shutting down. Food and water will cause them to bloat, being much more uncomfortable. I felt better about what we decided as a family and I do not regret it because I know my father is in a better place where he is free of Alzheimer's, free of pain.
My nephew of 38 years, passed last May from colon cancer that had spread to his liver and lungs. He had 2 different surgeries, chemotherapy only to have the cancer return within 2 years with a vengeance. He battled it for 8 years. The last few months of his life, he suffered with great pain anytime he had to go for a dr. appt., or when the family would take him to a place he wanted to see one last time. The movements of being in a car, up and walking caused him so much pain, it took 2-3 days to get it under control again. He was taking morphine and methadone to control the pain. The day before he passed away, he was up walking to go the bathroom on his own. He was basically alert, conversing with family. The next day, he was in and out of consciousness, finally went into a coma and passed away. I don't think any us of can understand fully how a loved can seem basically fine in regards to being mobile, alert, eating,....then they are gone when in the final stages of a disease.
My aunt lived with a feeding tube for 12 years (Alzheimer's), she was unresponsive to everything and everyone.
Don't second guess yourself especially when they are in final stages. It is heartbreaking to go through...grieving is a process with no time limit. Allow yourself to grieve and know you did the best you could...that is all any of us can do. No one can take that away from us, no one can judge us for the choices we made.
Many Blessings and Hugs to you!!
If you have suspicions and evidence of fraud or price gouging please contact your states health department and Medicare and share your concerns with them, this may have been a crime.
I realize that you are very upset by the circumstances of Mom's death but what you describe could have simply been a natural progression of her illness. You are within your rights to request a copy of your mothers record which should indicate how much and how often any medication was used. another useful thing would be to discuss your concerns with your mother's doctor. You could also contact a malpractice lawyer. Be at Peace
This topic touches on the hardest questions of all, hardest because we will never, can never know the answers. My brother was there when my father suffered a fatal heart attack: did he do everything he could or should have done? Could my father have survived if he'd had better first aid? I'll never know, and I'm not going to ask. My friend's father took ten days to die on the Liverpool Care Pathway: she'll never know if the approach was the right one, if she should have asked more challenging questions, if she should have overridden her mother and taken charge… It eats her up. My uncle died after someone made a serious - foolish but not malicious - error at an accident scene: in a way it would be a comfort to point the finger in public and say "This Was YOUR Fault!" - but it wouldn't change anything; and that person probably already feels enough guilt and shame.
I don't know if there is a moral. Most people, most of the time, are just doing their level best, whether they're professionals, relatives, friends or men-in-the-street. The hardest part is letting go of those unanswerable questions afterwards.
Hospice and palliative care may be one of the greatest gifts you can give someone who is terminally ill. Furthermore, hospice is covered by Medicare, and provides services to the surviving family.
What exactly is "over-medication"? Hospice workers know best. Hospice workers are aware that over-medication may give rise to homicide charges, so they generally do not try to "overdose" a patient. We currently have a case in my state, Pennsylvania, where a caretaker daughter, a nurse, was so charged for over medicating her father. At the other end of the spectrum, I recall enjoying a football game with a relative when his wife came in the room, turned off the T.V. and threw his beer down the sink. As she was leaving the room she said "well you told me in your advance medical directive to 'pull the plug' when when your quality of life depended on machines and ingested fluids." Since family members so often miss the mark about what is proper medication, it is a decision best left to experienced hospice workers.
For those families not sure about whether hospice is appropriate, it might be a good idea to have someone review the medical records and offer a second opinion. The authority of N.P.'s under the laws of each state are different, but in some states a Gerontological Nurse Practitioner can be retained to review medical records and have a candid discussion with family members at a reasonable cost or covered through insurance.
(Did Hospice rush your loved ones death?)
That's a harsh sounding topic to create.And cought me off guard to react on it.
I can't speak for all Hospice employees or all Hospice clients.It varies by employees and clients.I know by my experience of dealing with Hospice I had no problems what so ever.In fact without Hospice our family wouldn't know what to do.My father in law died of lung cancer,My Uncle died of Throut cancer.Hospice was their for both of them and did a amazing job.When my Mother & Father died back in 1992 & 1999 we never heard of Hospice.We had no help.I was 21 yrs old when my Dad died.Both could of used Hospice but,then that option wasn't around for us.Again sorry for your loss.If your family thinks your the cause why your loved one passed so soon because you got Hospice involved?Their thinking wrong.And good for you ,you did so.I sure wouldn't want to be the one to give shots to my parents during thier passing time.I wouldn't want to remember that for the rest of my life.That's why there's Hospice.To do what we can't or don't want to bare to do.
Off the wall example,
When your dog dies.It's not best for you to plant your dog your self.It's best to find someone else to do that for you so they say.But,I planted every dog I had my self.
Dogs are just like your family.I have a 12 yr old black lab not doing good.Loss of eye sight,bad hips.Everyone tells me to put it down.That's the answer for everything they say is put it down.Well,I know my dog.He isn't ready to go yet.I'll know when it's time.Until then,I will enjoy him.If only a dog could talk lol.
I'm sure some Hospice employees do rush a loved ones death.But,if the family didn't keep a open eye on what that Hospice employee was doing to their loved one.The finger points where?At Hospice the employee or the non open eye of the family?Some people feel better in them self by pointing blame to others to ease their own guilt.But,if you didn't attempt to prevent?Where else does the guilt point other then your self?Sounds harsh but,the truth.
If you say you did all what you could do?So,be it.No need for guilt if you attempted to prevent with a open eye.
I will agree one some things you all stated.
My Father in law was diagnosed with lung cancer.The first day of chemo I drove him and his wife to the doctor.He walked into the doctor's office to his chemo on his own.I waiting out in the car while he was doing his first chemo.His wife was with him during the chemo.2 hours later his wife comes out to the car to me telling me I need to help him to the car.I was shocked what condition he was in after that chemo.He walked in to the doctor's office.I had to carry him out.From that first chemo he never got any better after that.Down hill he went.To this day thinking about it now.That first chemo I feel is what put him down so fast.Before that day of that chemo he was walking,talking,joking.I think that first chemo just woke the cancer up.They say once you crack it open your done for.
I remember when Hospice started coming to help him.I see what you mean by saying Hospice drugs people up to their death.I think it's true in some or most conditions.And yes,I feel Hospice does rush their death.We couldn't talk to the father in law.He was too drugged up.But,I'm sure if he wasn't all drugged up he would of been in alot of pain.But,who really knows how much pain he was in really?He was ok until Hospice and cemo came involved.I feel if he didn't have that chemo.He would of lived a little longer I'm sure of it.From what I seen the Chemo and Hospice put hin down fast.
its snowing like a mf and id give anything to have her here baking bread today.
The death of a parent shakes the very foundation of our lives. It is natural for both you and your brother to feel vulnerable, alone and out of control at this time. No one wants to lose their parents, even if our parent was far from perfect. But that is not how life was designed. We are meant to spend half of our lives with our parents and half of our lives without them. As you work through the grief process you will come to realize that this loss has been profound, but that your father left you strong enough to face the future. And through this loss, you experience one of the defining moments in life. I want to recommend that you get this book for both you and your brother:
amazon/Losing-Your-Parents-Finding-Yourself/dp/078688651X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1389030744&sr=8-2&keywords=on+losing+your+parents
Please, don't take on guilt that is not yours and don't let this turn you and your brother against each other no matter what. You are both part of your father and you are meant to share that bond for the rest of your lives. Be patient with each other. You both are sharing a defining moment in life. It's a difficult transition, but you can get through it together and most of all, grow in ways you never thought possible.