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Neemec101
I see you are a new poster and did not include any personal information. While everyone is made very welcome here this thread has caused a lot of hard feelings and anxiety and even anger at the accusation that have been made against Hospice and their nurses.
if you are a legitimate poster welcome but if you posted just to cause trouble please stop.
If you feel your mother was mistreated the people to take it up with are the Hospice directors if you suspect criminality the police, state board of health or a lawyer.
Everyone will be truly sorry for your pain so don't be upset by this post but if you read the entire thread you may better understand many peoples frustration.
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My mother passed away on Hospice in late January of this year. I actually transferred her to a different Hospice due to poor customer service while she was in her benefit period. She was on this Hospice for one week and then I kicked them to the curb. Hospice is BIG time money maker and a very competitive business according to my mother's former PCP. He told me when he was in residency, it was not uncommon to see two or three different Hospice representatives - waiting outside one patient's hospital room to sign him up. Yep, it's true. Hospice is no different than any other business...You're not getting what you need for your loved - find a different Hospice. What was the poor customer service from the Hospice? No one picked up the phone when I called after business hours - at 7pm. I was P***D. I called again - at 7:30pm - and again at 8pm. STILL NO ONE PICKED UP. Mom desperately needed another medication for relief. It's a Medicare Hospice violation that no one picks up the phone - at any time of day. At 8:15pm, I called a different Hospice - a much, much larger one - and they arrived at our home promptly at 8am the next day. The paperwork transfer was done in ten minutes. I received Mom's medication in two hours. I was a pitbull with lipstick every time I had to get things done for my parents - I was CEO of my them because I'm an only child (no spouse, no support from friends) with no other blood relatives in the USA - and when I saw them suffer - Oh, Mighty...I let that provider know how unacceptable it was! I'm not intimated by any doctor or nurse - I have a brain - my undergrad degree is in biochemistry. For those of you that don't have a technical degree - it doesn't matter - listen to your gut - and if you see things are not right - then speak up to advocate for your loved one - hopefully, you don't have to transfer your loved one to a different Hospice - but don't be afraid to do it if you feel you're getting no where with the current staff. Ninety-nine percent of the Hospices are reasonable and will work with you. However, If you're getting pressured to not leave, this is a red flag and the answer is simple: It comes down to money and them wanting you're loved one's business. There are plenty of excellent Hospices out there.

If you don't like the medications being used - just tell Hospice to stop them. You're not required to accept any medications for your loved one...but do you want your loved one in pain until the actual death? For me, no way. In regards to morphine, I realize this is a very, very touchy subject. I'm very, VERY thankful for the morphine. Mom was dying - I wanted her to have whatever comfort measures necessary to ease the transition - and not just morphine - I'll take anything in liquid form!

In general, the body will die when it wants to die regardless of what medication is administered because so many things are happening at once - in the active dying process - things that can't be even be seen. Here's an example: You're loved one is bedridden. He is given morphine to ease the breathing difficulty. His breathing is getting worse, so more morphine is given. He dies with in hours. How do you know it was from the morphine and not from a massive blood clot/pulmonary embolism or a DVT that ended his life instantaneously? Would you go as far to order an autopsy to confirm the actual cause of death? For me, no, because my mother was suffering so much physically that I wished, prayed to The Universe/God - please give her something quick to end her suffering. Being bedridden puts a loved one at of developing a blood clot. Even "healthy" people who travel on airlines regularly or drive for hours on a weekly basis are recommended to wear compression stockings to try to prevent development of blood clots. Because of the opioid crisis, Hospices have to follow very strict guidelines on the pharmaceuticals to keep their license. Really, they do. If you suspect medications caused your loved ones death, then don't ruminate over this - contact a medical malpractice attorney immediately - so you can focus on your healing. He shouldn't be charging you anything and if he does - run - because there are plenty of med mal attorneys who will thoughtfully listen to what happened and retrieve the medical records - for free. If there is a case - he will make a handsome profit - trust me on this. My father's Stage 4 cancer was misdiagnosed over a two-year period and he sued both providers, so I know what I'm talking about. If there is no med mal case (or if there is one), then you should most definitely contact the State to look into what happened and this is free, too, because this is also part of your healing process. The State takes medical negligence complaints very seriously.

Again - there are many excellent Hospices - but there are a few that SHOULD NOT be in the Hospice business. Absolutely not. No way. Just trust your gut and do whatever you have to do to ease the suffering of your loved one - because at the end of life - no one wants to be pain and in anxiety - including you.
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Happy Valentine's Day. It's my mother's birthday today. Every year while my father was alive, he purchased red roses for her. Though Mom passed away several weeks, I purchased red roses today for her room and silently wished her a Happy Birthday and that I'm so happy she's with her Valentine, my deceased father.  :-)
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That too provided me with comfort when my mom passed- that she was now finally with my dad. He died in 1965 and she never remarried.
On her death cleaning out her stuff I found her wedding ring and now have it with me. I love looking at that ring and how small her finger was; it fits my pinky. She wore it for decades after his death.
So...they are together now after being apart for 48 years. He passed at age 44, her at 89.
Plus my mom had two of her sisters she was very close to; they too are all together now having many laughs as they were so funny together.
Yep I do miss my mother. But I know she still looks over me.
Happy Valentine’s Day mom! Love you lots!
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My friend's dad is in the hospital - not the hospice section. He is 83 and suffers from CHF. Problem is he isn't eating/drinking but he wants to eat. The only thing my friend is allowed to give to him is a sponge around his lips. They say he will choke because he failed a swallow test. But my friend thinks he is starving. I see him getting weaker. Any suggestions?
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My mom died February 24 2018 she was in hospice my mom had a stroke 2 years ago she was paralyzed on her whole right side she got involved with hospice in October because she was sleeping alot and her doctor felt they could be there to give us help .in January they increased her Norco to 2 pills every 4 hours but that wasn't helping her she started moaning like she was in alot of pain so they put her on morphine on February 14th at first a low dosage then increasing 20 milligrams every 2 hours then increasing to 30 milligrams every hour they stopped her eating and drinking on Wednesday yesterday she died .I feel they killed my mom yes she wasn't getting better but they didn't have to give her all this medication .at the end she was in a coma her mouth was all swallon.
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Kimbrown, so sorry for the passing of your Mom. Apparently your Mom was placed in Hospice because there were signs that she wouldn't be around for another 6 months. Hospice wanted to make your Mom as comfortable as possible.

Please note similar amounts of morphine is also given to patients who have had serious surgery to help with the pain. I've had two such surgeries, and morphine was given to me. It did help with the pain.

The reason that Hospice had stopped Mom's eating and drinking was because her organs were shutting down. Otherwise food would just sit in the stomach as the stomach, and water would sit in the kidneys. That in itself would be painful.

Your Mom would have passed on the same time table whether she used Hospice or not. The question, would you rather have not had Hospice and see Mom in terrible pain, or that have seen her pass peaceably. For my own parents, I choose the latter.

I hope this gives you some peace.
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Hospice killed my Mother, she was 90 and still knew everything, of course she wasn't in the best of health but as soon as we signed her up for hospice care they started the morphine which killed her. They don't take on patient to keep them alive for very long because it isn't profitable . If you sign the hospice papers you will be dead soon I can assure you. I totally agree with these other folk, my mother said I can hardly breath they are killing me and she was right. I feel guilty too. Hospice kills the elderly .
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My grandfather who will be 90 in August was given 2weeks to live six weeks ago and until this past Monday was alert eating holding conversions with family members, on Monday he wanted to get up and yelled for someone to help him, hospice was there and increased his medication and now he is out of it, not responding, not eating, not doing anything just laying there, is it normal procedure for hospice to increase medication without anyone's permission. This is a difficult time for me and my family and maybe we are just looking for a reason why and don't want to face the reality
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Vicky I am so sorry you are going through this. Not having seen you grandfather I can not suggest why the sudden decline. Hospice usually has orders that allow them to make medication adjustments,
I also don't know the circumstances surrounding his desire to get up. it is possible they felt he was going to become uncontrollable and hurt himself or others.

All of the being said his family can ask that the increases be reversed and see if he returns to his normal.

You have to make your concerns and fears known to those who are ordering grandfather's care. You have the absolute right to agree or decline any treatment. If the patient is likely to harm himself or others that will alter the decision making. But speak up even though it sounds as though your loved one has been on his final journey for some time and things can change in the blink of an eye.
Keep Grandfarther comfortable and be there for him. Keep talking to him and stroking his arm. he will know you are there in some sense. You can read to him, especially the bible if he has faith. Sing, play music so he does not feel alone.
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I just wanted to say my mom died of liver cancer. It was painful for her and many nights at the hospital I would just go up and down the Hall begging for someone to give her morphine or Ativan. I tried to get her moved to hospice because she was not getting good care and her doctor refused to release her. My mother suffered with so much pain and it broke my heart. I wish I could've had hospice to help my mom. Now my husband's dad
and mother in law used hospice and it was great, they were so loving and his parents did not suffer. We just gave her pain meds as needed. Never overdrugged at all. They both died with dignity. God bless you all with your decisions on hospice.
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suzy0519
I know that this is a long time after your post. I just seen it tonight. I have a hospice story to tell also. My mother was diagnosed with a gleoblastoma, she did not have any symptoms that we knew of before September of 2017. She had taken several falls, her foot was turning out to the right when she walked, and she was having a memory problems, and she was having a hard time judging distance on the right side. When she was diagnosed it was so quick, then came the brain surgery, and rehabilitation, radiation and chemo, doing good for a while, then she started going downhill very, very, fast. We had to get hospice involved about 7 days before she passed away. I think they did try to make her comfortable but the same story as yours I didn't know what mixing the 2 medications adavan and morphine would do, but it rushed her death and to make a long story short they killed my mother faster than when she would have passed away. We are filing a lawsuit. very heartbroken and still grieving, even after 3 months. The took my precious beautiful mother away from us to soon. The nursing home that she was at for "Rehab" is also getting sued for wrongful death.
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trapwhisk, please let us know how those lawsuits turn out.
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I often recommend the book "Being Mortal: Medicine and What Matters in the End" by Atul Gawande. Dr Gawande is a surgeon and both his father and mother were also doctors. The author has done a lot of research on different ways we care for our elders, and how the medical part of the process could be improved.

He describes his own father's end of life. His father knows that his condition is fatal and there is nothing more medicine can do for him. He has seen how this condition ends. He insists on going home from the hospital to die. He tells his son that he does not want to suffer. He gets his son to promise he will keep him out of pain. That means drugs (I think morphine, but I don't remember for sure). He gives the drug and his father sleeps. His mother is not on board with this. She wants her husband to be more alert. She says maybe if he had a little pain it would wake him up. The father tells the author that he wants to die in peace, and the only time he is at peace is when he sleeps.

This chapter reminded me of this particular thread. Some family members want to see their loved one at peace, and if that means asleep because of drugs, so be it. Other family members want their loved ones to be alert and responsive, even if that increases their pain.

I suggest this book to those who a struggling with hospice decisions. It gives another perspective.
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My mother was old and dieing. Her thinking was fine. But She would go wild when given zanax or flexaril. She was staying with my sister and brother in law and they would give her these meds. Then call hospice. Hospice took her.they kept her in a drug coma. When she would start to
Wake they gave her more drugs.i stayed by her side till she died.i asked them to check for zanax or flexaril but they wouldn't. I think she was set up because my bro. In law was tired of her living with him and my sister. He didn't work and was angry at haveing her there. It makes me sick to think she was sent to death before her time.
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Hi Rosie123, it brakes my heart to read about your experience, I am so very sorry. Unfortunately, there are too many outcomes like this that I have heard about. I lost my beautiful father the same way. Just 7 days before my fathers life was ended, he was at the Bowling Club, betting on the horses, shopping, visiting friends, still very active, in good spirits and enjoying his LIFE. He had only been diagnosed with small cell lung cancer 1 month prior. He kept telling me that he had no pain. A doctor I spoke to 3 days prior to his death told me that my father was no where near death, & that she had worked around cancer patients for more that 20 yrs. I was totally in shock when in 2 days he was gone, into a drug induced coma.
People think that they are going to these places to get care (like the word suggests, palliative CARE HOSPICE,
It is actually euthanasia and patients and families should be better informed. Palative care is great for people who are wanting to die, but there should be a choice. My father certainty wasn't ready to die and he was ripped off with his life. Cancer didn't kill him. He was killed by a drug induced coma. The same thing happened to my auntie and the family are still trying to deal with it. They visited her one day, she was eating laughing and cracking jokes and thought shed be going home in a week. The next day she was dead.
So yes, definitely loved ones death extremely rushed. I find it so hard to accept my father's death, as I should, but ten years later I am still riddled with greif & depression. I feel for anyone that has gone through this experience. Your certainly not alone.
Furthermore, I can not understand what all the fuss is about Euthanasia when they are already doing it on a daily basis and its all legal.
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A person will die on the same time table whether they use Hospice or not. It all depends if you want your love one to spend their final days in terrible pain or in comfort. I vote for the comfort.
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Jeanniegibbs - i am reading that book Being Mortal which you recommend. In deed, a very good book with a new perspective on life and death.
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I did a search for dilauded and landed on this page, and found the subject enlightening. First, let me say this. I am caring for my 82 year-old mother who is in the end stages of lung cancer, has just been enrolled in Hospice care (in home) as of 1 week ago today, and who is in almost constant pain. She has withered to just 95 lbs (her fighting weight was 150), six months ago she was at 135. Three weeks ago she was still making her own meals and basically b****ing at me at the top of her lungs about everything I wasn't doing right. Two weeks ago her oncologist told her she'd feel better if she got out and took a walk around the block occasionally. At the time, she could not walk more than fifteen feet without getting winded. Today, my mother can no longer get out of bed. Day before yesterday she ate two relatively large meals. Yesterday, she picked at her meals. Today, the best I could do was get her to sip some celery soup through a straw. She hasn't pooped in 7 days. She pee'd about 1/4 a cup this morning. She cries from the pain when the dilauded wears off.
I would give ANYTHING for a morphine drip and Atavan. I used to work in a nursing home and I know how peaceful and painless going that way is. This is none of the above, for any of us. My poor mother is suffering, and I am attending to her every minute. I am sleepless, haggared, not eating, and basically at my wits end.
Anyone who feels that hospice did them a disservice by easing their loved one's passing needs to come to my house and see what it is when they (due to the opiod crisis I guess?) withhold those meds.
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ChJones I'm so sorry you & your mother are going through this! May I ask why she wasn't given a comfort pack when she went on hospice? My MIL is in the end stage of idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis and went on hospice, in home, at the end of February and hospice gave her a comfort pack with ativan and morphine, even though she wasn't in any pain or suffering from anxiety. She's only recently started taking ativan because of anxiety which seems to be the worst at night after she goes to sleep. The ativan has been a God-send, when she wakes up during the night in a panic she screams out for her partner/caregiver and it scares him to death!! (sorry for the pun).The ativan is allowing them both to sleep peacefully.
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I have been a nurse in a hospice inpatient facility for 15 years. Over that time, I have learned alot about death and dying, as well as about grief. One constant in my job has always been the misconception by many people that a hospice facility is basically a place where a person goes for care and then the nurses “kill” them! My own in-laws believe that! It’s hard for me to get my head around that....that they, after having known me for 30 years, believe that I “kill” people for a living!! Wow. But I say that to say this: It is legally, not to mention ethically and morally, wrong to kill someone, even if they are very sick and are dying. My job as a hospice nurse is to observe the signs and symptoms a patient displays and to use my knowledge and judgement to give the care that will best alleviate the suffering. If a patient seems to be in pain ( or tells me there is pain), I look and find out what medication( as well as the dosage and the route) can be administered. If enough time has elapsed since the patient’s most recent dose of that medication, I can give it. It has to be within the parameters already set up by the doctor. I can’t give more than was prescribed. I can’t give more often than prescribed. And I am aware of what can and what cannot be given together. Sometimes, medication isn’t really indicated. In those cases, I know some other non-pharmaceutical ways to help. I have found that hospice nurses, because we deal with death so much, are keenly aware of the sanctity of life, and would NEVER attempt to hasten death. The decision of when a person’s life is to end belongs only to God. Sometimes, a patient will die very soon after medication has been given, and grieving family and friends may interpret that as the nurse having “killed” the patient. I understand that. But hospice is NOT to kill people, or even to hasten death. I’ve heard that for years, but nothing could be further from the truth.
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I am sorry to hear that. I have an odd story. My grandma was taken into hospice from the hospital. She was doing better, alert, talking. Things were looking up and we thought maybe we could take her home. My aunt told the nurses don't give her anything she's getting better. My aunt went to the bathroom and a nurse had snuck in and put something u under  my grandma's tongue. My aunt got in a couple mins to late. The nurse was startled by her coming back in the nurse had left her bottle of eye drops that she put under my grandma's tongue. From my understanding this is normal to speed things along. It doesn't show up in the blood stream and within hours she was dead.
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My late mother was a hospice patient she was given morphine for pain management. She had terminal cancer. Hospice ignored her when she stated she was algeric to morphine. So once all her pain meds were increased that faithful night. With her algeries it made her dying experience worse. Till this day two years in I cannot be in a room without sound.
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Yes, I think about it every day. My grieving will not go away. All, I keep saying is- she could have lived a few more days. I needed those few more days with her. My sister was on duty at the time and called hospice. I have a huge resentment against her. I can't take this anylonger. My mom passed away 11/16. I keep saying, it's my fault and my daughter tells me it is not. I miss her so bad. I do think hospice rushes death. I will never have them around me or a family member again. :(
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Hi I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with your local hospice. I did as well when it is cancer and all hospice uses is morphine in my mind it rushes the death Also my late mother was couldn't tolerate morphine do to her allergy to it. It can seem like hospice rushes death especially when they don't manage our loved one's pain well. My mother has been gone two years was in hospice for one month and 5 days died in hospice house.
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People die on the same time table whether they use Hospice or not.
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My grandma is 81 with dementia (early stage 6) and i struggle these days with not knowing if the pain she says she has is true. I hear how bad of a headache she has almost every day , now kust complains that she hurts all over, including her chest. She is a hospice patient and i tell her nurse about her complaints but when the nurse asks her how shes felling, she answers 9/10x “ im fine”. Its so frusrating because all i hear is how she feels awful. Now the nurse is waiting to get the approval from the Dr on starting her on morphine. Because tylenol wont work. The guilt i have if she really isnt in pain and using it as an excuse to sleep all day long( which i cant allow because she then gets her days and nights mixed up) so thats a daily struggle too. I am exhasted these past couple months have only become so up and down , from delerium, anxiety, restlessness. Insomnia, incontentance and even violent. If you seen her you woukdnt think she belong in hospice but i keep telling myself if she didnt qualify for hospice care ahe wouldnt be in it. She can still walk and talk and that is why i have a hard time believing her time is coming. With morphine added now whAt if it takes her before she was supposed to even go and because im exhausted it doesnt mean i want to live with the giult that i contributed to her death since im the one that will have to dispense( per Dr orders)it to her. Then what if she really is in pain and im ignoring it and she is suffuring.
Im so torn.
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I recently went through this with my mother. She passed 2/20/18 She had a two year battle with cancer, was at home in hospice, and I was with her the last two weeks and when she passed. I followed the hospice nurse's instructions regarding medications exactly. She was in a lot of pain, leaning on the bed made her uncomfortable. My head tells me relieving her pain was critical and afforded her some mercy. But, as you say all the drugs (doubled the last three days) makes me feel in my heart like I drugged her until she was unresponsive and then she was gone. She was on two Fentenayl patches, Morphine, Lorazepam and Haloperidol. I was so conflicted about what was best for her, to get her through the pain and make her comfortable, and seeing her unresponsive. It was more than difficult. How much is necessary.....what was she feeling......thinking...... wanting that we didn't give her? The last coherent words I heard her say was "what is happening, why am I like this?" The hospice staff were wonderful and I trust what they had me do for her. Being a lay person during such a difficult time it's hard to understand, you are simply in the moment watching a loved one die, trying to get through, and all the questions come to mind after they are gone. Hospice continued with a bereavement team afterwards for my dad. They were married 70 years. He's lost and lonely at 93; breaks my heart.
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Lizzie you did what had to be done. You were able to ease the pain and allow a peaceful death. Even without medication many people are unconscious at the end of life. There can be no guilt attached to easing someone's distress. Be at peace with your actions. There is no timetable for death.
I am so sorry but not suprised your Dad is taking this so hard. 70 years is a very long time to be married and at 93 it is very hard to take such a loss. I am sure you are doing all you can to relieve his distress. let him take his own time and don't do things to "cheer him up" he may be ready to join your mother sooner rather than later. it will be very sad for you to face the loss of both parents, but we don't have a choice in such things. So be sure to take care of yourself during this difficult time. Blessings.
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Iamjustme. As you said the nurse left a bottle of eye drops that she had used to put under Gma's tongue, it would be doubtful that she was giving morphine, it was probably something to dry up the secretions or prevent them in Gma's lungs which are extremely distressing both to family and patient during the dying process
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