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Pammie you are totally entitled to your opinion about hospice. It often does seem that people die as soon as ahospice nurse crosses the threshold. Whether that is true or not is a personal opinion but the truth of the matter is that many people wait far too long before they call in hospice. it is not unusual for someone to actually die during the admission visit or that very night whether they have been given drugs or not. Your grief is still overwhelming after almost 2 years and you might consider some professional counciling at this time to help you through it. I am not suggesting that there is anything wrong with you but sometimes people get stuck in a stage of grieving and need some help to relieve their suffering.
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Lost there is no way you can tell if Gma is really in pain or not. Discuss this with the hospice nurse and see if she just needs an anti anxiety drug like Ativan during the day and maybe add the morphine just at night so you can both sleep. As long as you don't exceed the prescribed dose you do not have to give her all or everything. The usual starting dose for oral morphine is very small and no where near enough to kill anyone.
From your description she sounds as though she is progressing fairly quickly. because she can still walk, talk and eat does not mean she is not nearing the end of her journey. Remember it is her mind that is sick and damaged not her body. Hospice is very hesitant to admit patients with dementia because it is something that does not usually end life very quickly. Don't be afraid to try the medications and see if her pain is eased and that will help you descide on the best way to move forward. Don't let guilt guide your decisions. After all if she sleeps all day so can you.
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Yes, my husband is in here at the Edgewood Kentucky Hospice. And I feel the same way. My husband wanted to go home. And of course they agreed. The next thing I knew the doctor at the hospital said that he didn’t know where he was so the doctor took it upon himself and told that we wanted to stay at the hospital. 5 minutes later the hospice lady came in. It was so weard, and I proved to her that my husband Charlie knew exactly where he was . And 2 minutes later I woke Charlie up and proved to her that he knew where he was . So now she of course gave him a choice, stay there in the hospital or now he could go to the inpatient hospice. And he said hospice. They told us again that the other lady would be back to talk to us the next day and I haven’t seen her yet. Of course they keep giving him all that medicine and now he cannot speak or drink and barely opens his eyes. I believe that they had it planned out. And they are killing my husband s little bit at a time. I know what he wanted. And I really don’t see how they can do people and family and loved ones like that. This isn’t right. And I do not agree with anything they do. They take people’s live in their own hands . And right now I don’t thank them for anything. Except taking my husband Charlie away from me his kids and grandkids. God help Hospice!!!!
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A person passes on the same time table whether they use Hospice or not.

It depends if you want to see that person suffer with horrible pain, or if you want the peron to be comfortable.
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yes I feel the death rushed. I did not know the person would go so fast. did not like that.
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Catroom see freqflyer's post directly above yours.
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Catroom, usually what happens in that case is that Hospice was called in at the last moment, thus it would feel like Hospice had a hand in rushing death.... but Hospice didn't, as the patient's body was already shutting down on it's own.
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I hesitated to respond. My Dad is still alive although I am not sure how much longer. I agree w/ you 100%. I do believe Hospice was an inevitable destination. I am deeply troubled by, once we made that decision, how quickly my Daddy went from responsive to 100% drugged and non-responsive. I am not against Hospice. I am very angry and upset how the transition was presented vs reality. It was a sales pitch. I feel pretty sure those administrators are compensated by how many / how quickly they move from care to death.
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RobRob, an empty bed generates no income for the facility. Thus, the facility would want to keep their residents in health for as long as possible.
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I need to clarify. My Dad was not under Hospice's care....he was headed that way. He was in the transition stage and receiving Palliative care first. Regardless, I stand by my earlier comments.
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Rob, so your dad was NOT receiving Hospice care and declined quickly?
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I felt the same way with my mom who passed from cancer. Her cancer had spread but she was still very alert until hospice care kept her drugged up. When the morphine ran out (since she was at home during hospice) and it was completely out of her system, she was alert and talking again. Not just staring looking like a living curpse. I believe hospice give people entirely too much drugs and it makes them die earlier.
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What is really funny strange is that the last 10 posters who are naysayers to hospice only posted ONCE and only to this tread. It is as if they dropped out of nowhere and landed here just to make a comment then disappeared.

With the exception of peacebear, these posters: RobRob, SteveBishiri, LIzzieM, Wandamcdaniel, catroom, Iamjustme, Pammie58, Lost247, Dianne321, and Storey came to tell their stories and how hospice killed their love ones, then they disappeared from Agingcare.

Makes me wonder if these are real posters and real stories.  I bet if I went back more pages, I'd find more single-comment posters who were against hospice.
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I expect they've been directed here from another website, Polar. That's okay.

We do all tend to go around in our comfortable echo-chamber bubbles. It doesn't do us any harm if we at least bump up against other bubbles from time to time :)
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Polarbear, I noticed that, too.

I remember one time on another thread that had to with Hospice, that one poster thought those of us who were comfortable with Hospice could all be the same person. Apparently that poster didn't check out our own history on this forum.
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I'm so sorry for your loss. I too have thought about your question. Both my step-dad and mother-in-law were placed into hospice (years apart), and both were alert and responsive until they started receiving the morphine/ativan combo. Then each became unresponsive and death followed shortly thereafter. I know they both were close to passing regardless, but it did seem that once hospice got involved, it happened awfully quick.
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PolarBear, those one time posters could be "drive-by posters" (another wise and insightful person's characterization), or they could be the same person with multiple identities. I haven't checked their profiles (it isn't worth my time) but I suspect that there's either no history, or just a very general comment, that no answers are enabled and there's no personal information beyond the standard "I'm caring for..."
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One must note that a person will pass on the same time table with or without Hospice. With Hospice the person will pass with very little or no pain at all.

There is also a "rally" where a patient will suddenly feel better, will be eating and talking. And within a couple of days they are now in coma like state. This is very common. It would happen with or without Hospice.

Sometimes a person will think their love one passed quickly once Hospice was involved. Usually in those cases, Hospice was called late in the patient's care.

My own Dad was in the hospital with aspiration pneumonia when the hospital called me saying he took a turn for the worse. Thus, Dad was transported back to his Assisted Living, and Hospice was called in. He was able to rest comfortably without that heart wrenching cough. Dad passed quickly, within a week. He was ready to go as my Mom had passed the prior year and he missed her so much.
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Blueridge, if they were close to dying then hospice didn’t speed up the process. They were called in at the end and that’s not uncommon. My MIL has been on hospice for 3 months exactly. She’s on morphine and lorezepham. And it’s by choice. Hospice doesn’t just come in drug people. Medication is given with consent and the patient and or their family can say now. My MIL is sleeping more now that she’s on morphine but the alternative to that is suffering. Do you want your loved one to be comfortable and pass in peace or do you want them to suffer until the end? Hospice encouraged morphine because MIL was suffering. They knew her caregivers views and they never pressed the issue when her oxygen was increased to 16liters and she was having more episodes where her oxygen levels dropped considerably and she struggled to breath, they did make a stronger suggestion to start morphine. After seeing her suffer, starving for air, I am glad she’s on morphine even if it means she’s not as alert. It is extremely difficult to see a loved one go through this and I understand why some think there is a correlation between death and the time hospice comes in but death happens when it happens. And in many cases, the alternative to the person being drugged up is suffering—either starving for oxygen or suffering severe pain. Hospice uses medication to control symptoms, they don’t administer them for no reason. So your loved one was probably suffering from pain or lack of oxygen.
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In my mind they do cause the last week my late mother was alive she was having constant break through pain. She had small cell lung cancer and bone cancer. So I had to administer a lot more quick acting morphine which she was also very algeric too. They also at least my local hospice were poor at communicated with my sister and I she was the power of attorney and I was the round the clock care giver further more they didn't do much to help with my family situation I had with visitors that were overwhelming my late mother the week before she died and I was asking for their help.
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In my experience with hospice they never managed my late mother's pain . She had small cell lung cancer that spread to her spine so bone cancer as well. Morphine can speed up the dying especially given in increasing amounts over a number of days . In my late mother's case the week before she passed on I had some family members who came home for their good byes and all they did is cause her pain they were all smokers and the smell of that on their clothing when they would hug her would cause her a great deal of pain and discomfort so I had to give more morphine to manager her pain. This same family members had there own agenda in mind and completely didn't respect me as my late mother's care giver. My hospice team wasn't much help at that time. Three days after the week long visit my mother was admitted into hospice house and two days later she was dead. It was between the stress of the week before and the extreme pain she was in and she suffered more cause of her allgery to morphine so that faithful last night of her life . well in a nut shell I can't be in a room without sound.
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@polarbear....my Daddy died. I shared my experience upon researching if others had experienced the same. I don't feel like I am obligated to continue to post. I'm not sure why you even think I or others should. Likely they are, like I, grieving their loss as well as dealing with the guilt of being part of the final decisions. My story is real. My experience and perception is real. I'm not sure you get it. I am appalled at your accusation.
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Rob,  I'm so very sorry for your loss!

I'm still not understanding; was your dad under Hospice care? Are you saying that Hospice CAUSED his decline?

I think many of us are confused by your posts.
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my Family Had something similar happen with my Uncle he did it make it to respite care. He was in the hospital What family all around him he was talking and eating We were sitting there laughing and talking about old times.the doctors Came in and asked us to leave the room and when we did they gave him a shot in his IV and all of a sudden they said they had to put him on life support Right away. I asked The nurse and the doctor what did you just give him At 1st they would not tell me so I requested for his charts that's when the doctor said a small dose of morphine and we all know morphine can kill you specially when you're weak.
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miamyualove, so sorry for the passing of your uncle.

The same amount of morphine that was used is the same that one gets when you have major surgery. I have had several major surgeries and each time had morphine for pain.

The amount of morphine given is 5mg to 15mg.... in order for morphine to kill someone the amount would need to 200mg. Since morphine is a highly regulated drug that is closely watched, no way would any doctor or nurse give a patient 200 mg.
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My sister basically bled to death at HOME!!!!! She was throwing up blood all night, Hospice came the next day and gave her a suppository ??????????? and left her!! They never came back to check on her, even after begging and pleading from her daughter for some help with symptom control. My sister was freaking and scared to death! It took until that night to get Hospice to allow her to be taken by ambulance (even though they would not help) She was comatose by that time and had lost 80% of her blood volume! She died the next morning in a nasty HOSPITAL emergency room bed!!!! NOT in the inpatient hospice comfortable bed surrounded by loving family that she was promised!!! I am LIVID, HURT, and will NOT shut up about this!!! She deserved better!! They have not once called my 19 year old niece who was her main caregiver, who had to watch her Mom basically bleed to death in their home!!! and she died 2 weeks ago!!! As a matter of fact, they have even ignored calls to come pick up their equipment!! They did not drug her to death, but definitely did not give her any relief at all of these horrible symptoms and did not help make it any easier on my niece or get her in to inpatient hospice as the Hospice director promised my sister that day in the hospital in my presence!! This was NOT a peaceful death by far!! Up until this, all my experiences with Hospice had been wonderful. I assured my sister this was the right choice. Now I also live with that regret, along with tons of others concerning her death. I will NEVER recommend Hospice to another soul :-(
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Katie-
I looked up your profile and could not find any information about you on this site.

You didn't say if you took care of anyone.

You only have 3 answers which are hidden.

Just wondering how you suddenly found and appeared on this particular tread.

Regarding your sister, why didn't you take her to ER right away? If someone was bleeding to death, you were supposed to take that person to ER or call 911, not beg and wait a day for non emergency service to give you permission to act. Why would you need Hospice's permission?
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umm I found this site through facebook?? I joined the page there. Thanks for the welcome by the way! I have not had a chance to set up my profile. I will do that tonight when I get a chance and will NOT post anything else until you can properly inspect me :-( Sorry, I didn't know the rules. I was relieved to be able to share my story with people who may understand. I will answer questions AFTER the profile is done. SO sorry. I hope you have a great day. Be blessed.
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By the way, I'm not as stupid as your post makes me sound!
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Hi Katie. My apologies. And welcome to the site.

The last 10 or more posters who opposed Hospice were one time posters and never posted again and had no history which made them look suspiciously fake I suspected your post was another fake post hence my rude reply.
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