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Still trying to manage with the house now full. Daughter moved in with husband temporarily. Lets hope it temporary. She has a job, his is pending. I wanted them closer so that is good. besides having her close is now fun! Dad is still dad. Although only comes out of his room to go somewhere, bathroom or to eat. Doesn't interact much. Today the exterminatr showed up, my wife wanted to talk to him. The guy came and dad apparently answered the door and the guy said not to let the dogs out for an hour. So a half hour later my SIL tells me that. My wife was beside herself, she wanted something done and lost the chance because he didn't tell us he was here. people come to the door and he does what ever. We need to know, not him! When I asked why he didn't tell us because we wanted to talk to him he replied, "I didn't know that".....

It gets harder every day........
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Ive been trying all week. I have a big job to put a walk in my back yard, so I let dad price out what I needed, I already knew what I needed. Just to give him something to do. So I start, I take a few 1/2 days from my business to get things done. He tags along. OK I am trying. Then he goes right into full on this is his job mode telling me what to do like I am working for him. So I do what comes naturally I shut down (moms trait). I do what I need to do, finally he figures it out. Then day 2 it starts again, A few snappy comebacks and he starts to figure out this is my job, my way. My house my rules. I work differently, I work slow, I fly a desk for a living so I am out of shape. I know exactly what I want to do. Finally day 3 we are getting along. He cant do much but sit on a bucket and tell stories. Day 4, I work all morning by myself (goes well). I go to get supplies and he comes home, full on supervisor mode telling me what to do...... not good... "I know you are open to suggestion right now"... "yes your are right I am not".... He wants to do it his way. Then it settles down. He tries to kneel down , he cant I totally understand. I just tell him to sit there. He made a few cuts on bricks.... Then back in to supervisor mode sitting on the step.... it starts to rain so I call it a day after 9 hours. Then I tell him I have to work in the AM and I have a function and am the Emcee at in the evening... he says "I need someone to pay the light bill"..... I almost threw his keys and a suit case and told him to go live with his daughter at that point...... he may be kidding but after I bust my ass all day working on my house, trying to run my business and my wife works all day to pay the bills too I about threw him out of the house.... I walked away and here is where I vent, thank you for listening... I am trying to be positive and include him but there are times. My step grandmother said something nasty about me in front of my girlfriend once, I called her by her first name to twenty years after that.....dang she lived to 100....
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tg you might not want to hear this but you are isolating yourself. My daughter tells me frequently to MTFU (man the f%^& up) and she is right. I don't stand up to Mum and you aren't standing up to him are you. So what if your family have a pop at you ...tell them to do one ..they aren't exactly supporting you are they. You have to learn to tell it like it is. (says me who can't most of the time). This is your house he is living with you not the other way round. So your house rules top any he might want to have and if he doesn't like it then he can go stop with his other children ....oh wait ....he can't ....so your house rules stay If he doesn't like it then it really is time for him to put up or shut up and I sure as h3ll wouldn't sub him at the end of the month - you are actually enabling him - albeit with the best of intentions. xxxxx
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I am trying to remain more positive although it is difficult. I am encouraging him to get out more. He is getting more involved in his lodge which is good. He runs out of money at the end of the month so I have to give him some. Its not a big deal. The biggest issue is me. tonight we have plans to go to dinner with a few neighbors. I am sure they would want my dad to come along but my wife and I need our time out. The problem is I want to bring them back for dessert (I inadvertently invited people over after). Now if we go out and he is here it will be awkward. So I will have to make an excuse tonight (house is not ready).
It is just so hard, when he goes to a meeting we have a few hours to our selves and can actually talk to each other. I am trying at dinner to make better conversation, have to come up with topics that are neutral.... that is tough..... I think the hard part is I no longer feel a part of my extended family except a few cousins. I post nothing about my situation on social media. It makes me sad that I no longer have interaction with nephews and my niece, brother or sister..... We do cards on holidays and birthdays... not much in response (nothing from the kids).
I am getting more grumpy each day. Trying to remain positive. This was my choice to have him move in but really no choice since he was broke and no income to help him survive financially nor the ability to live on his own and really take care of himself properly. Someone said the others probably knew his personality and wouldn't have him move in, they were absolute right. My brother and he would not be able to live together and my BIL does not like my dad so that would not have happened. Plus my BIL essentially poisoned his kids against my dad since they were little they do not associate with him much as grandchildren. I do feel bad in part but some of which he brought on himself.
Again trying to remain positive......
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why not get him into an apartment for the elderly or into assisted living?
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Still trying to cope. Mothers day, dad dint even wish my wife mothers day, not that she is his but the mother of his grand children. I made breakfast, He went to church, we spent the morning cleaning then shopping (flowers she wanted) had a nice lite lunch and then I bought lobsters for dinner. Had lobster (he of course loves them) then after dinner he remarks "thank for buying lobsters"! I said 'they were for my wife for Mothers Day"..... nothing.... then he goes in and calls my sister, wishes her Happy Mothers day! Tells here we had lobster.... then He asks if we can have Mothers day next week for more lobster....... or more this week (I bought more on sale for my wife lunch) he was not happy when I told him that. Then he complains to his friend (nightly 10 o'clock call) that I bagged up the lobster.... Like it is there for him?
I just get frustrated that he does not acknowledge anyone else but himself. I try to converse but anything I say creates a Cliff Clavin moment and I hear the history on the topic of the moment.

Do I need therapy? I have become this very grumpy person. Anytime something is out of place, said the wrong way I get ticked. I am so happy when I am out of the house, the moment I get back I am grumpy, we bought the house my wife always wanted and now it is becoming a place of tension.
He mentioned he wanted to make clam fritters, my wife asked him to at least turn on the fan on the stove. I don't fry in the house because I don't want to smell a clam shack. He complained he may have to go to my sisters to get strawberry pie because if he picks them we wont make him a pie...... since when do we become his cook? My wife explained we are trying to eat better and diet and we don't make pies .... he has no sense of others.
I get it he is not in his own house but this is year 2.
I am concerned about my own health now, the stress is taking a toll... I don't know if a therapist will help or make it worse.
Trying to remain positive and look at the bright side...... then something else happens...
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You say you are acting out of respect for your father, but respecting him is not synonymous with giving in to his every desire to your own detriment. And do you (and your wife) not deserve his respect in return, for your loving devotion to his care and needs?
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I am trying to see the positive in all of this. I have respect for my dad, it is not that I think he is right but the respect you have for family. I watched my grandparents take their parent in. I watched my parents with my moms aunt and uncle, it is just what we do.
I realize I am not an easy person to live with. It is just the little things. I have to let them go and move on. After dealing with a large number of family and friends passing in one year my wife and I said "if its not fatal its not important". We keep that in the back of our minds dealing with all of this. I have to remember my dad was coddled as a child and as an adult. He did many major things in life and gave us a great upbringing. My mother doted on him and now it is expected. He will do anything you ask, my problem is I don't ask...... there lies the root of the issues. If I ask I expect it to be done my way so I don't ask I just do it my way (my mother in in). So the vicious cycle continues.
I am planning on getting away for a few days at the end of the month, may go see my daughter in the city or just get away. I will grin and bear it and take precautions. He is planning a week of work with the church that week so the pressure will be off me. I have been trying at dinner to talk more..... it is difficult talking with Cliff Clavin but I move on.........
I made dinner last night for tonight so no one has to worry about dinner (wife has a major cold). I have an all day meeting today and tonight so maybe I can concentrate on business.......
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I wonder if much of the stress, difficulty and discord that you feel stems from a general feeling that you have in the relationship with your father. It seems that you somehow believe he is all knowing, all seeing all omnipotent. He isn't. He is a man in his senior years. He's not the boss of you. He has no special powers that make him able to control anyone....unless you allow it. It's your house. You set the rules and set the boundaries.

You say he somehow finds his way onto your computer information. There are ways to solve that. You say that he tells other family members information that makes you look bad. There are ways to handle that too. Keep in mind that most people are not capable of keeping anything confidential. They just can't. If you know this upfront, the information you provide them cannot harm you.

Being upfront and just saying what you are experiencing to your dad and other family members could be therapeutic. I think that I might get some counseling in order to gain some tools to help me gather my courage, face the situation directly and change what I didn't like. You can love a parent and not have them living with you. Sometimes, it's just not the best way.
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I think you are all correct. I did look at this from an analytical approach in the beginning. Both my prior dealings with care giving were from a far. Only for a short time was it in place in my home and one is across the country in Texas that I only have to deal with on the phone (the only responsible party). When I looked at this I said "sure, I can do this no sweat". I was caught up in the whirlwind of the funeral, travel and back and forth with closing up the house and dealing with the finance so moving in was the only option and seemed a good one.
I didn't go in blind I knew it would be a challenge. But I am from the mind set you take care of family first. My big bugabo in this is I assumed he would have been more ambulatory meaning he would visit family more and go visit my siblings more. Due to financial constraint that is not happening. And the fact that my wife doesn't want to leave him alone afraid something will happen. So here I am in the vicious cycle. He has been playing the victim card lately to the family. They must think I am a dictator when I hear what he tells them. Truly he is treated like a king here. I guess that is why I don't hear from them. My wife and I are going to get some time away. I am going to ask my sibling to have him for some time (it wont happen but I will try). I know I am not a rose to live with. I am grumpy a lot (stress), I don't talk when I get upset (moms trait). Wishing I could take off for a few days like all my friends do.
Things to do this week; Go to the gym, eat better (been trying but that box of girl scout cookies was awesome), complain less, try and focus on work and remain positive......
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Tgengine, your right, we are in the exact same boat! And everybody else is right too! It's only in the past month that my husband and I are on the exact same page, that we NEED to get his Dad to alternative care/housing, as in, out of our house! In the past, we both wished he were gone, but then on or the other of us would vascilate on him going to independent living, or continue to live with us, but now we both are completely sure that this is what we need , in order to finally get our lives back. It is a process, as we don't want the Old Man to think that we don't Love and care for him, but want him to understand that we won't be abandoning him, just seeing to his excellerated needs, that frankly, we can no longer provide, or at least not without serious and detrimental risks to our own personal health and mental health, or even if we Want our marriage to survive! We have every intention of having home care brought in, to help him to regain some strength, so that he can go to an independent living situation, and we also intend to have very frank conversations with the assigned case manager, to let them know that we wish for them to help us to convince him that this is the right move for him to make now, not only for himself, but for his Son and I to alow us to regain our own independence from him! God I hope this works!
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Kimber, I think your insights are wise, but I think there's something else going on, b/c I've been through it, and b/c I see the change in Tgengine from when he originally began posting.

I think caregiving often has a cycle, one of change as the caregiving begins, accelerates, becomes more intense and often at that point conflict, being overwhelmed, frustration, and even desperation set in.

What I think also occurs at that time is thought paralysis in terms of problem solving; it's like not being able to see the forest for the trees.

I'm speaking from experience obviously, but also from reading posts here of people in similar situations. I had to step back, create emotional and personal distance by viewing the solution as a client problem (i.e., how would this be handled if it were presented to a law firm by a client?), break down the issues and create possible solutions. Then I could be more rational in deciding what I would or wouldn't do. Sounds simple, doesn't it? But it's not, not at all.

Obviously it's not an easy task to distance yourself from someone so close. But it's often necessary, and based on the number of frantic and desperate posters that post here, I think it's a major issue in some caregiving journeys.

I recall when Tgengine first began considering the option of his father living with him; he was analyzing as a businessperson would. I don't see that perspective anymore, and it's not to his discredit. Nor is it a criticism. It's more like an anticipated milestone. And to me it's more of a reflection that he's been sucked into the caregiving whirlpool like a lot of us have.

I too have been through the "I'm the only one who can change things" dilemma, trying to balance what's fair and necessary vs. what's realistic. I won't deny it hasn't been easy to navigate that stage - sometimes it's like going through class 5 white water rapids in an inner tube.

But if I'm the only one who can effectuate changes, then I have to find a way, and that required separating the daughter from the provider to see the situation more analytically. Then it required gradual implementation.

I think Tgengine needs a break from caregiving, father needs respite time somewhere away so Tgentine and his wife can get a break, re-analyze, develop solutions and implement them. He's been a problem solver in the past but it's difficult to maintain the independent thought to do that when the problem is sitting across the kitchen table, and when the problem doesn't see the issues or want to make change.

Tgentine, I hope you realize that this is NOT a criticism of you, your wife or your father.
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Tgengine - this is going to come out harsh but I don't mean it to. Reading through your posts - you "wish" something would change and be better with your dad, but you are not willing to be tough enough to communicate with your dad and lay down the law. Nothing is going to change unless you make the change happen. If you are not willing to - then look for outlets for yourself and your wife for respite. And use this site to vent. Because as your dad ages it is only going to get much, much worse.
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Stacyb, it sounds like you have the mirror of what I have. Yesterday I cooked a nice roast, potato's and carrots. He comes into the kitchen as I am finishing, "need any help"? Wow that was a firs!. I say "no, it is all done", so he goes back to his living room. 5 minutes later I call dinner (twice) it is the next room. My wife has to go and tell him it is dinner time. He always needs the personal invitation! Then as I ask my wife if it was OK, he says yeah it was good, in the low almost hard to say it.
He will only buy what ever he wants for food. We buy the better local milk in glass jugs, when his is empty (he drinks 1% that I buy) I use whole for coffee. So the 1% is pretty much his as he drinks a gallon a week. He wont even buy milk now....... I am not looking for him to pay rent. But he leaves lights on every where. I pay the bills!
I know I am complaining just not sure what to do. I can t kick him out and I don't want to. I am just looking for a little 2 way here.
My mother raised me better. Say thank you when someone does something for you. Help take the garbage out or do something round the house, stop telling people how tough you have it here, feed and clean up after your dog......
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pressing not person^^
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Tgengine hya hun welcome to the nuthouse cos our parents all seem to drive us nuts at one time or another! Now you are not stupid so think on this and before you say it...yes if I practised what I preach I might be in a better place too but of one thing I am sure.

To quote Henry Ford: If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. You have to change things around to get a change in outcome. Get the bloody lot of them together and tell them ALL so there is no mistake anywhere that you need a break and either they take Dad for 2 weeks or he has to go into respite which they have to pay for if he can't. Moreover while you're at it lay down some house rules. It's YOUR house. he will NOT treat your wife like his servant and if he does he will be looking to move sometime soon. You sure as hell don't ask a sibling for a favour - ITS NOT A FAVOUR - YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO RESPITE - You MUST HAVE RESPITE
You absolutely need it to recharge your batteries and when our respective governments realise the damage it does to carers in the long term then they might just sit up and take notice. Both cared for and carer suffer if the carer doesn't get some break. Grrrrr rant over but stand tall honey and give em all h3ll and if he don't like it he knows where the door is doesn't he...my guess is he is enjoying every minute and loving person every button he can!
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Tgengine, you sound exactly like me! "Oh, it's not That Bad!" But No, it Is That Bad! My FIL makes those sounds too, the coughing to get attention, the throat clearing, waiting to be waited on, being served meals First, as all elders generously are, and then after he dishes up the meal, my husband spent an hour to cook, he just says "OK", and retreats back to his TV room, no "Thank-you, nothing, and on the rare occasion that I tell him that his son worked hard on this or that, to make things nice for him, and that he Never says Thank You, he will argue it to the death with me! Now, he won't even come into the kitchen, as he has gotten lazy, and won't even get up to serve himself, although he is perfectly capable! Grr! Having them live with you, and then not being appreciated is the worst part for me. My husband won't confront him, but I will, though it does no good. My husband will then complain to me about him, but its his Dad, so how is this fair? It's Frustrating isn't it? And we've never had a break from him, but I am working on this! 12 years of zero help from his other 2 kids! I wouldn't want them to help now anyways. The dysfunction in this family is too great, and I wouldn't even allow his other kids into my home! I would be afraid that they would steal from us (as the other Son has done in the past), so that is out of the question. I hope relief comes soon with home care and respite! For you too buddy!
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Freqflyer - I feel for you. My mom was forever telling people I never visit. I would usually hear this within a day or so if my last visit - one of the usual 2 - 3x a week. (Sigh)
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tgengine, I understand, my friend. You describe what you're going through as not so bad. It wouldn't be bad if it were for a few hours or for a few weeks, but it is your life now. You go through this all day every day.

It's easy to write an answer about what you should do, but so much harder to do it I understand that. He is your father and he is living in your house. It would be nice if he could afford to live elsewhere, but he can't. I do think, though, that you have to work with him to get him to pay some of his costs. And I think one of those costs would be a maid to come in to clean for him once a week. It shouldn't cost that much. If I were your wife, I would have already revolted and kicked you both on your backside. Let him know it's not 1900 again and your wife is not his servant. He'll probably say that he'll clean, but that won't happen. He needs a maid.

How is it he is living with you for free? Most people here know that I have a difficult mother, but even I wouldn't pay for her. She tried that with me one time, but I told her that it wasn't going to happen.

You're doing your dad a good service and he is abusing your good nature. He does not have dementia, so you can lay some ground rules one thing at a time. If he complains to others, then so what? They probably really know the truth -- either that or they prefer to believe bad things. Nothing you can do about them. You have to deal with the thing that is affecting your happiness the most. I know you most likely won't make him leave, so try dealing with one thing at a time. Good thoughts and hugs coming your and your wife's way. Hang in there.
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It would be nice to send him somewhere. Trying to figure out what he is planning. He talks in a whisper every night at 10 PM. to his closest friends wife who he worked with 30 years ago and they were all friends with my mother. I think its great that he does keep in touch with her. She needs the contact as well and she lives 8 hours away. He visits when he can. He is up to something right now not sure what it is. I am not in great favor of his driving 8 hours, he can hardly walk let alone drive long hours. When he talks to everyone else he talks at level 10, with her it is a whisper. I don't care he is 80 so is she. I ask how she is all the time. Anyway. the other issue is he covers up not bathing with cologne...... I can smell it in the basement the second he comes down t he stairs on the first level......ugh.
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You're like a hamster on a wheel, we've been hearing about the same problems since you started posting but you aren't willing to jump off that wheel! I get it, you want your life back. He has poor manners, is inconsiderate, childish in the way he handles his finances and manipulative in the way he complains behind your back. I don't understand why he wouldn't be fine living in an independent living apartment with you handling his finances, but you say it wouldn't work.
I guess your best bet is to get as much respite from him as possible. Send him fishing. Send him to your sisters. Send him off to all the aunts an uncles and cousins! I wouldn't worry that they talk trash about you because if he spends any time with them they will know what he is really like!
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Thanks, I wish he could live on his own but we tried that. No money and he didn't do well alone. It was not my plan but he did not have enough to live on his own (no pension or savings). So I stepped up. Its not terrible, it could be worse. I guess I am just being over picky. The little things bug me like leaving lights on everywhere (I pay the bills). He found I have a dry cleaner who picks up twice a week it is a luxury for me for my business shirts and class A uniforms. He found he can put his shirts and pants out and have them magically cleaned and paid for every week. I stopped letting him have a cleaning bag. It gets expensive after a while. The noises that he makes with drinking eating and teeth sucking, if it were my kids I'd yell at them, with dad I cant. He loves playing the victim card with his sisters and my sibling "they wont let me do anything". Lets see drive 10 hours to not fish for a week and 10 hours back? Climb ladders at the church?
He sits there all day and does nothing. How about empty the trash, put the dishes away, pick up your dogs poo in the yard vacuum all the stuff he watches us do. My wife scrubs his bathroom, we clean his living room (when he is not around). He made the comment once his maid was here (Took my wife weeks to come down from that one.)
I have to figure a way for my sister to take him for a month this summer so we can chill and get on track. Trying to plan a couple days away this month. Not sure if it will happen because we will both be so stressed. If he leaves we have to deal with his dog but yet he wont do anything for my dog.
He doesn't like the food I cook, I made raman noodles with dinner, might as well thought I was serving him trash. The story came out how they are made. So I don't serve them now but yet he wont by food for the house (just him). You get what I make here. Last night I made a home staple (very fattening) of course he liked it. But yet he wont help cook. Its like living as a hotel manager, he has to be called for dinner when he can clearly see and hear it is being made. That one blows me out of my mind.
My stress level is out of control, my BP is high again...... Don't know how to manage all of it.
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Heck,,, boot him out to your sister for a month! Let her tell him,, and I bet after a month she will be the bad guy and you will look like a saint! It;s a power play And you may feel so much better after some time with your wife. I know when my Mom visits my Aunt for even a few days I feel like a new person ( although it is usually Aunt who come here, we are apparently very entertaining,, and take her places) It is also 2 years for us, and my Mom is always trying to suggest things.. sometimes I feel like a visitor in my own home.. and she says she does too. Sometimes you can't win. But you and wife need a break
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GA has some good thoughts. I have had a similar thing with my mom. She chose to move in with her kids, chose not to live in her own home. Then complained to family about things because it was different than what she'd done when she was home and retired. Part was just her, part was that she didn't like that things weren't the way they'd always been in her life. In any case, we tried to explain to family (we called them, as they preferred to use the family rumor mill to get word to us) and it was a waste of effort. I came to realize that even if I could get thru to them, it wouldn't change a single thing - they would still have their opinions and still be invisible.

When it was obvious we had to make a change, we took some hits. But we hung in there because she needed more help and care. After a while, we just cut off the conversations with " thanks for your concern - we have it taken care of". You get a thicker skin after a while, because you know that you have to make the change, no one else has any reason to.

Safest thing I found was no to say anything to anyone - not to your dad about the others or the others about your dad. Nothing on social media. Your family knows what your dad's personality is - they probably are steering clear because they sense you may be looking to get them involved.
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tgengine, I just read your profile... you mentioned your Dad is still mobile but lonely since your Mother had passed. Curious, how did your Dad wind up living with you?

One thing I have noticed after reading the forums on Aging Care, that once a parent moves into a grown child's home or vise versa, the parent/child dynamics change. Once again the grown child becomes the child again, and the elder becomes the adult. Lot of grumpy times.

My Dad [94] made it easy for me when he decided he wanted to move from his home and go into Independent Living. He wanted to be somewhere where he is around people closer to his own age. He couldn't do it when my Mom was alive, so two weeks after she passed he was ready to pack. Yes, it is pricey, but Dad had saved for these "rainy days". Now he wishes he could have moved there years earlier.

I remember one of my cousins was telling me, that Dad told her, that I never take my Dad over to Home Depot to get things he needed to fix things around the house. Hello... we were just there. Dad would want to go there every day if he could. I just couldn't do that. So he would complain.
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It seems this situation is getting worse. You're posting more often and your posts are more expressive of the family dynamics as well as your father's unreliable repetition to family members of his misinterpretation of the situation.

I think you've become what others have when taking care of the aging elder - the target. You don't to draw a bulls-eye anywhere on you, but it's there nevertheless. Your father is in one way or another channeling his frustration/anger/fear/anxiety at his own situation toward the person to whom he's the closest: you.

It's unfortunate that your siblings believe him, w/o clarifying the actual truth with you. But since this is apparently part of the family dynamics, it's a given, not a variable. Try to work just with the variables in this problem solving equation.

And I think the biggest variable now is whether or not to continue to keep your father in your home.

Factors: disruption in the smooth running of your household, frustration on the part of you and your wife, probably exasperation, backstabbing (although apparently not new), and as I recall, some issues with your father's dogs and cleanliness.

You ask about dealing with the family dynamics. I'm certainly no expert or insightful in this area, but it seems to me they've become an exacerbation of what already existed. Is there in fact a way to address or change them, to keep the family members informed, or should you be focusing on the larger picture which is the disruptive presence of your father in your home? What is your specific concern - which of these two issues, or a mix of them both?

I'm one who believes in keeingp my father in his own home where he can interact with friends and neighbors, so I'm generally not inclined to recommend a facility placement. But that time may be near in your situation since your father has become so disruptive of what used to be your life with your wife.

One thing you might try is a communication to all family members advising that you and your wife can no longer handle the caregiving obligations (you don't necessarily need to explain why), you're researching other options, and the first is which of the siblings will allow father to move in with them.

If none volunteer, then you might have to explore another option - a facility near one of the siblings.

These aging journeys it seems often put us between the proverbial rock and a hard place. Neither option is good, so it's the choice of which is the least worst.

Perhaps you could even find a respite for him for a weekend so you and your wife can have a normal life and decide how to move forward.
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