What is the best way to control Dad's disruptive wife who pops in and out for visits?

I have to admit I feel some sympathy for "the wife". It is obvious in the way you refer to her she was never accepted as a member of the family, yet they have been together 32 years. He has dementia and is no longer the man she married. At 90 she knows full well that her own days are numbered, and has chosen to live her remaining days as fully as she can. She has chosen to move to a community that offers socialization and other opportunities not available where your dad resides. She is focusing on herself, travelling and making new connections. Good for her!

I would ask, what was your families reaction when she said she didn't want to care for him in that way any more? Did encourage them to move together, perhaps to a facility that would offer various levels of care? Often the elderly have to separate in their final years because one spouse needs a higher level of care, it doesn't mean the marriage is over or that they no longer care about each other. You say he has alzheimer's yet you seem to deny the reality of his dementia, when he is confused you must continue to cheerfully offer a plausible explanation and redirect. She has rights as his spouse that probably supersede yours, what is it you want to accomplish?

My goodness. What a tangled situation. Does she want to file for divorce?

I agree with cwillie above, I can't blame the wife for moving out, gosh everyone's been sniping at her heels. Why on earth did all you kids refuse to have your Dad move into a continuing care facility?

No wonder your Dad's wife picked on your Dad, she wanted them both to move into some place safer with on-staff caregivers. She knew what the future will bring. Even though you are all taking turns caring for your Dad, eventually it will be narrowed down to one grown child who does 100% of the work. Just wait, it will happen. Anne, are you ready to work 3 full-time shifts per day? Alzheimer's/Dementia does get better, it only gets worst.... and the different stages can change to the next stage very quickly.

My parents had lived in a single family home up into their 90's, and I know my Dad was to the point where he knew he could no longer keep maintaining the house.... the "honey do" lists keep on happening and there he was at 94 still climbing ladders, scared to death doing so, and doing yard work. But he wanted to keep Mom [98] happy.

Dad wanted to move to Independent Living but my Mom refused to do so... no amount of pleading would get her to even look at the places, and there were places that were like 5-star resorts. I wouldn't have blamed Dad if he had decided to move out on his own and leave Mom behind, but he was afraid to do that. So each day going up and down those stairs, he hoped he or Mom wouldn't be falling.... but they did, and that still wouldn't convince Mom to move.

Last month my Dad moved into Independent Living on his own... my Mom had died due to complications from a fall a couple of months ago. Dad is still angry that Mom didn't take his advice to move some place safer, as she would have been with him today.... [sigh].

^^^ typos above. Alzheimer's/Dementia does NOT get better, it only gets worse.

Well, it sounds to me that you kids have your daddy under firm control. And if you're lucky, that second wife of 32 years will just crawl off somewhere and disappear. If this sounds bad, it is because the original post sounded that way to me. I was glad to read that other people agreed. This woman may not have been your mother, Anne, but she was your father's wife for a long time.

Let me either defend my question or look for some objectivity in my explanation and responses. I totally am not in denial about Alzheimers and I do not understand why that statement was even made. If he needs to be re-directed, etc I guess that means we are trying some basic Alz techniques. The caregiver staff does the same. He was diagnosed by the University of Pittsburgh Geriatric Center around 10 years ago and even they are amazed at his ability to thrive. The doctor and the neuropsychologist cannot attribute all of his success to one item but they do state that his daily activity, his mental stimulation and that he was a very high functioning individual might be a contributing factor. Like autism, we just do not know what the magic combination is and we adapt as necessary . My MIL just died in January of this year and she lived with us for 2 years prior to being in a AFC home for 5 years.I have seen first hand the potential deplorable conditions even a pricey Alz residence. SO yes, I know Al. gets worse. Been there, done that. That is one of the first reasons Dad continues to stay at home. But we are not blind to what to expect and what we will do next for care. Most experts in the field will agree that aging in place, when still able and appropriate, is the best resource. With that said, I have not stated that his wife did not make a good choice for her. She did what she needed to and i do get it. I have not entertained a roster of incidents on either side as to indicate family disfunction and I would be a liar to say there has not been any. With 6 kids in Dad's family and 3 in hers it would be hard to defend. But how would you deal with this comment said yesterday, " I told you if your Dad did not recognize me I would have moved to Boston instead?" Would it be difficult not to feel sadness for your own family member? I would say so. BTW, Dad wanted to move into a luxury 5 star step down community over 10 years ago but his wife refused. Then when she finally decided she had him sign one for $500K , she changed her mind and lost the $40 K on it. SO we have been down that path.

One responder asked what am I asking for? Maybe it is more emotional than legally logical but if visits to his home are disruptive when do his rights to a peaceful existence come into play? Based on what has happened and comments she has exercised hers already. She does not have any spousal POA as she did not want it. Dad takes care of all of his medical expenses and she has stated through an attorney that if he runs out of money for medical expenses he will not assume any financial responsibility. What can be asked for the sake of his peaceful existence? We are only wondering what we could legally expect and adhere to for both of them

Coming to forums like this for advice, both objective and personal is helpful. I have stated before on some of my prior responses that being judgmental in our responses on all of us, by all of us might be help you but not help us.

I know that she was his wife...that is why we expected more from her.

Based on the prior abuse, can you get an order of protection? It seems a bit extreme, but you asked what you can do.

Have you asked her if she wants a divorce? Will she agree for her belongings to be packed up and delivered to a storage facility of her choice?

Anne, thank you for giving us more information regarding the background. We only had your original post to base our opinions and recommendations.

Could it be that your Dad's wife knows she is just not cut out to be a caregiver? Not all of us are. In fact there is a good article on the Aging Care website regarding that. Plus your Dad's wife is 90 years old. I have a feeling she felt very outnumbered, thus she left. And the reason for some of her comments. She is scared emotionally to what is happening to her husband of 30 some years.

My boss's wife had Alzheimer's for 15 years, it was in the final 3-4 years that it became very difficult for him. Prior to that she was doing usually well. He had a day care-giver for his wife during those last 3-4 years, but he took on the night duty. Too many times he came into work with having only 2 or 3 hours of sleep, as he was up caring for his wife who wouldn't sleep and who was having issues with incontinence, thus he was washing sheets at 3 in the morning, and showering her.

Quite a story. Wife is 90, Dad with ALZ, six kids here, some others there, it is messy. I can see both sides of this although it seems a little unusual for a wife of 32 years to bail when the going gets tough, although she may have very justifiable reasons for doing so.

It's sounds like Dad is well cared for. Can you somehow get all of wife's stuff out of the house so she has less reason to visit? How does she get there? She still drives? Is it worth stirring up a hornets nest with the other family?

Thank you both for your comments. I agree that many folks are just not able to assume the duty of a caregiver. Her one daughter told us a few years back that their mother was not willing or able to be a caregiver. That said, one has to say "okay...I get it." One of my brothers states he is not made to be a caregiver and has a hard time even visiting Dad. .
That is why we accelerated Dad's LTHC, to take the burden of most of Dad's care off of his wife. Whenever she has , which is about 4 months out of the year total, we have gone in to provide extra coverage for Dad. Her sisters husband had ALZ and was put in a facility for about 6 years and so she is at least an observer of what to expect also. I know this is disease causes 'death" on many levels to many people. Dad states many times, with in- the -moment lucidity, "I have Alzheimers and my brain is dying." We tell him that he is doing a fine job and that those around him are aware of his disease.

The house is large enough that her items could be stored there, even though we as a family have mixed opinions on that. I just wish there was some way to impress upon her or her family the overall negative impact her visits have and might there be a solution. I have experienced myself having to leave my MIL when she was in a home and it was not a comfortable feeling for me and I knew it also upset her. Both these individuals have the right to a peaceful existence. Maybe we are asking for something that just cannot be delivered. But I question if she is even aware of the issues she is causing and if she is, does she care?
The question of divorce would not be acceptable to Dad on the basis of his devout Catholic beliefs. She is not Catholic,but it might not be fair to her either. Her family has stated frequently in the past 6 months that she values her marriage commitment, so I do not even want to explore that. Thank you again for the continued suggestions.

She's not aware of the angst she's causing? Have you sat down with her at the local coffee shop and had a chat with her, or with her children? "We love seeing your mom, but her visits are causing dad to become terribly agitated; can we work something out so that doesn't happen?". Are you saying that she's coming to visit HIM, or just to pick stuff up? If she still values visits with her husband, and he enjoys them in the moment, I think I'd ask his doctor for permission to give him a little extra anti anxiety meds right before her visits.

It could be your Dad's wife is very upset that this isn't how she envisioned the later years of her retirement. She is defensive, maybe thinking Alzheimer's will develop for herself.

Lots of issues here, but thinking only in terms of your father's welfare, I also think that it might be appropriate to pack up her things, and suggest she come and get them so that she has access to all of them. I personally would be a little bit more aggressive if she doesn't get them and tell her they'll be donated to charity. But that's just my approach.

I don't see that your father is gaining anything from this ongoing almost stalemated relationship, but since he's a devout Catholic, perhaps some type of legal separation might work as opposed to divorce.

I would also use a "therapeutic fib" and tell him that you understand she has health issues that could be resolved by living in a different climate, so she won't be visiting as much.

Bluntly, it seems to me that her marriage commitment doesn't mean much to her and that she's essentially abandoning it, except for the storage facility issue.

In the meantime, I'd try to find other sources of socialization for him to ease whatever pain he might feel for what seems to be an abandonment by his wife.

Ok, so divorce is not an option. I have the feeling that deep down, this is mostly about money and the house. Is it possible that the wife is keeping ties to the house by leaving much of her stuff there and only taking a few bags at a time? Is she trying to make sure that the house (of which she is half owner) is being properly maintained? She may be getting advice from her children to keep track of what is going on in the house in order to protect her interest.

Are you all determined to keep dad in that house, or just to keep him out of a facility? If it is that house, would it be possible to reach some kind of a financial settlement with the wife to remove her name from the deed? Of course, you would need to consult a lawyer to see what the community property laws are in your state. It would seem that selling the house might be the best solution. A house built more than thirty years ago is unlikely to be well suited to elder care. Maybe a different house with wider doorways, larger bathroom and no steps would allow dad to avoid a facility for a longer period of time. If the wife visits dad in the new house, it would be just a visit, with no discussion of storing or removing belongings. Would this be less upsetting to dad?

I think AKDaughter's first paragraph sums it all up - it's about the money and what the wandering wife wants to get out of the marriage.

I also think her second paragraph offers excellent suggestions; keep Dad at home, but in an environment more suited to his and your needs at this time.

I'll avoid any judgment because family dynamics cant be understood by an outsider.

If any of you can tell kindly inform her that after she leaves, dads emotional state is rocky and that his stress has zero to do with her- but his inability to understand her coming and going because of dads ALZ.

Then instead of offering a solution (which as you "felt" by responses here, i.e. being judged); ask her if she can help by maybe forewarning the visits so dad can be preoccupied?

At her age and 32 years of marriage and HER home, HER husband-- even if shes seemingly horrible, i cant imagine how i would feel if the children took over dad under my roof. When my dad hit rock bottom and mom was beside herself, we moved dad out per her request. Into a rental home close and all the children helped.

But like i said- no judgment because each family dynamic is tricky and walking on egg shells is an art!

I would love to get rid of my sister-- but alas-- its not about me, its about mom.

We can't judge as we don't know the wife, but you wrote:

"Dad wanted to move into a luxury 5 star step down community over 10 years ago but his wife refused. Then when she finally decided she had him sign one for $500K , she changed her mind and lost the $40 K on it."

Sounds like there will be a huge amount of money left when your father passes and that alone may be the reason to hang about. That said, it may be her children, expecting a windfall, are pressuring her to keep her belongings at the house and check up on it and your father's condition. Just my two pennyworth.

The above suggestions are all very much appreciated. About the house: It will not be suited as it is for the future of a senior. The house is 48 years old. Built by Dad, she agreed to move into it as my youngest sister was 17 when Mom passed away.
She lived about 6 houses up the street and felt she knew all about Dad. She had been widowed for 10 years, sadly a young widow at that. Dad had another house on a lake that was purchased by Dad and Mom( that is where Mom died.) His new wife said she wanted a new home and Dad resisted, but was delighted to call the lake home"theirs". It was sold about 7 years ago. Last year we asked if we could research widening a bathroom door, putting in grab rails , adding banisters and to consider making a first floor bedroom. We were allowed to do the first three but we met with resistance on looking to secure any first floor sleeping area.Hen she went away for a month she told Dad to stand in the way of anyone who tried to do anything in the house! I laugh as I think he was puzzled by that. The house is roomy but by no means state of the art. I would imagine someone might come in and totally re-do most of it as it has aged. I would like to consider moving Dad to a smaller house but I would wonder how he would react. It would take time and patience and with the same caregivers around it could be an excellent idea. Maybe a rental home would be a good idea, but she would have to agree to sell the current home.
Visits and driving: We asked her family to assist us in a a discussion on visiting and advance notice. Sometimes they help and sometimes they tell us to talk with her ourselves. She lost her drivers license about 2 years ago after 4 accidents . I know that is tough as I had to watch Dad actively give up his license 10 years ago when he realized he did not want to be a road liability to someone else. She has a driver she will hire for appointments and has relied on people in her new community to drop her off and pick her up. Also, sometimes the local daughter might help.

The last 3 visits have been unannounced and she spends about 10 minutes with Dad and an hour with her stuff. The visits I have seen are about the same. Maybe it is because she has to pay a driver??? The caregivers keep an eye on the whole thing and are very accommodating, even offering excuses for her absence. While I am probably a pack rat she too is a hoarder and her family says they will deal with it someday. The bulk of her first house still is in the basement. So she spends lots of time going through suitcases of junk mail, magazines and plastic bags stuff. Thats not a criticism...it is an observation. When she leaves with a bag of stuff their is no real pattern to her departure. She might ask the caregiver to help her or walk by Dad with the items. He might ask where she is going with her stuff and sometimes she just keeps walking and does not answer.
I will try again to request some sensitivity to the visiting schedule. She largely ignored the request from the geriatric care manager. She has stated that she will not be held to a schedule but one never knows.

Also, I would seriously like to give him the answer that she moved to Boston to be with her son for health issues....but what do I say if he feels like he failed her as a husband? He already has said that in the past when he thinks she has been overworked....and then he says well maybe I should be in a" box." So unlike him, but obviously very symbolic of gender roles here!
You have been very kind in responding. We might be a dedicated family but we did not interfere with their marriage or home...we were all busy with our own. It has only been in the last 7 years when we observed that he was needing help and was not getting it.

Wouldn't any money be joint marital assets anyway unless there had been a prenup? I would think if greed were the only motivator she could divorce and sue for her rightful share. The marriage you describe may have been dysfunctional, but it has lasted 32 years.
As for her belongings, how do you even begin to divide the shared possessions of a couple like this? There will certainly be some obvious heirlooms, but the bulk of things would most likely have been accumulated during the marriage.
I think the real problem here is his distress over accepting their new reality. While it might seem like it would easier if you could wave your magic wand and make her disappear, it is possible that he would continue to fret and worry about where she is and what she is doing.
I agree with Babalou that it might be worth while to have a discussion, perhaps using a neutral third party, with her and her children and explain that her visits are causing problems and plan a strategy to remedy that, maybe by limiting their timing or duration or the topics she brings up.

Addressing first the situation of her moving to Boston and your father feeling as though he may have failed her, emphasize her age, the fact that she can no longer drive, and the obviouy fact that she too is getting old and needs help which it's more appropriate for her son to provide. Perhaps you can couch the explanation in terms that suggest she's actually thinking of him and choosing her son to care for her.

But frankly, this woman sounds very self absorbed, and a user. I personally would be getting tired of what I see as only partially cooperative behavior from her family. And I'd make darn sure that his estate plan is up to date, including addressing the fact that she's an absentee wife.

I'm really surprised at the amount of stuff she's left in the basement. I would also start getting rid of that; you're not running a storage facility, and having all that excess stuff is just more stuff collecting dust. You can tell her and/or her family that you've been advised by one of your doctors (or even make up a story about APS having been contacted) to get rid of all the stuff as it's not healthy.

I can't help thinking "money and assets" and manipulation though.

Looks like we posted at the same time.
What a mess, she will continue to be tied to the home as long as it is full of her stuff, and of course she feels you have no right to limit her access to her home! The best solution would be to move him out and clean house (literally), but at this stage of his life I understand your resistance to that. I worried about my mom's reaction when I sold her home and moved both of us to a new shared residence, but she made the transition surprisingly well. You mention he wanted to move years ago, would he still be willing to downsize?

Anyone hear of negative bonding? A couple may have always had an argumentative lifestyle, even hate each other, appear to have not had a good marriage. If you measure a good marriage in terms of years, there is a lot of years. Was it then a successful marriage?
If husband and wife are negatively bonded and family messes with this dynamic, then family is to blame for the current unrest.
Respect their marriage. Ask the wife wgat she wants you to do.

There is a prenup. We are not worried about tangible items and Dad took care of family items with a list of things he wanted his family to have. She has already taken lots of things and has written her name on the bottoms of others. Who cares really? It is all just stuff. Has anyone ever seen a Brinks truck and a U Haul in a funeral procession line? :) Yes cwillie, a magic wand might be nice but all we want is peace. And even though we have asked, we cannot give up advocating for him. It is not fun to live in this atmosphere and realize that all you are trying to do is make sure that the guy who was the best, most caring and deserving Dad gets all the breaks he now deserves. I live in another state , as does another sister. A third lives nearby. My husband encourages me to spend as much time as I can with Dad, as do the other spouses etc and I have been going in for 2 week stretches. We keep the CK for the bulk of the time and usually have the dinner and overnight shift. He so appreciates our presence and thanks us profusely. None of us are worried about what is in it for us....we have received all we could ever ask for already!!

I like those answers and am encouraged by them Garden Artist and CWillie. They made me smile and chuckle about the house. I will definitely pose them to the rest of the family. With the debris that has been left behind I had to ask her family if we could clean out the bathroom in Dad's room. I told them that the condition of the house was something between a storage facility, a dumpster and a recycling center. For Dad's well being and age at home he would be better in a more conducive place. And if you folks could see the stuff you would be blown away. The fact that it all posts a hazard is significant. We had such smells in the basement last year and had to pull lots of the stuff away from the walls looking for dead animals. Exterminators, critter catchers, you name it...we hired them. I do not think most of us realize how bad corrugated boxes are to the overall quality of the air that you breathe. Our caregivers were beside themselves. And absentee wife is interesting.

That was an outside the box opinion, please don't shoot the messenger.
Personally, I agree with Jessebelle's observation.

If Dad is going to remain in the house, of course clean it up each time. Add a single bed with a pretty bedcover, and a locked cabinet in each room. First, take pictures, before and after. No one needs permission to clean up an area for Dad's well-being. The use of the rooms can be up to Dad, or you. You can use one room as a live-in housekeeper's room, and one room as 'a monument to the wife's room'. Then Dad won't be more upset, if you can white lie and say we think she may come back, this is her room. Anyone would be upset if rooms in their home were in shambles, so clean and straighten the rooms up.
Make more of an effort to make his current living situation better and safer for him.
Does he currently have any live-in help?

Take a look around the house. Think of dividing it, with a safe portion for Dad, with a lock on the entrance to his apartment area, to include the kitchen of course.
He is there, a major portion should be his area.
Or, think of her assigned portion as a smaller, separate entrance apt.
They are not yet divorced or legally separated? Save her a spot. If she sees that she has an area, she may feel less threatened, less territorial, and stay away longer. If a legal separation occurs, she has abandoned him.
Taking charge of Dad's assets is important to minimize her destructiveness. imop.

This situation is not unusual, I have heard of very similar stories. One wife moved out because of hoarding, and then hoarded up the new place too. When she died, the couple had been together in their home with the help of family coming in to once again clean up the hoarding.

Anne: "Has anyone ever seen a Brinks truck and a U Haul in a funeral procession line? :) "

Hahahaha, thanks so much for that vivid image and a great laugh!