Should a child of an elderly person charge them for care?

Yes - the caregiver should be paid.

If the " girlfriend' or "friend" can find employment elsewhere for $2900.00 per month with free rent, I'd tell them to go for it.
You all know it ain't gonna happen. Minnie the Moocher and her grandson, along with this woman's grown son have found an arrangement that suits them. I only wonder why the financial planner entered the picture at the request of other family members or the elderly woman herself. The "friend" must be a fantastic caregiver.

I moved my mom into my home after her heart attack in 2003. Since then in 2005 she added a room on the back of my house because there was only a small room and all her things wouldn't fit from her house. I had a friend build the room and it amounted to about $23000.00. Since then she now has dimentia and is in hospice care. They have an aide that comes in 4 days a week for about 1 hour to change her clothes and diaper and clean her up. This gives me a little break. Also since 2006 there is a neighbor that is paid to come in for 3 hours (about $30 daily) to be her companion and help her with her meds as she has diabetes and a few other pills,. (dressing) etc. Until this year mom played scrabble with her friend. Mom had a series of mini strokes and it along with dimentia has stopped her game.

I worked until 2010 when I got injured and now I'm home full time with mom. It is a big help when someone else comes in for the little time it is. I was told by my moms attny to be sure to take out a stipend out of moms money monthly to pay for her living in my home and caring for her. I only took out $700 a month knowing if she needed the money to care for her in other ways the money would be gone. Should that happen I could not pay and other measures would be needed for her care. I felt bad about using her money. My brother and sister in law thought it was a good idea but my sister did not. She also did not come to visit but maybe once a year or when mom was extremely ill.

Full time caregiving does deserve payment no matter who it is doing it as long as it is done with loving care. Sometimes if nothing else a mental break is needed. God bless all those that care enough to lend a helping hand be it for money or love.

As far as medicaide goes you should look at an application-they will ask who lives in the home and all expenses will be gone over carefully and you have to get at least the past 3 years of the person bank statements which will show how her money was spent especially large withdraws of $2000.00 or more they will ask who lives in the home and if they see anything that does not look right to them the person is turned down-make copies of the application because they will not return it to you if you are turned down.

To the person implying that the woman providing the care is a "moocher", I didn't see the financial planner make any statements about the quality of care the woman was giving. It sounds like the woman needs care that would probably qualify her for a nursing home. If she is on call 24 hours then she is probably underpaid (at least by market rates). Someone said that children should not expect to be paid to care for their parents b/c parents did not present a bill to children. While I do not charge my mother for care and use my own funds when needed for her care, I feel there is a difference - parents made the choice to bring a child into the world (in most cases), children did not. That's not to say that if they have the funds, they should not help them but the reality is that in today's economy, if a family can make an arrangement where the mother gets good care in a loving family environment and a woman with a child (assuming this is a child not an adult) can have a home in exchange for helping an elderly woman) what is wrong with that? The disgrace in our society is that when we get old we better have saved up a lot of money or hope we have children who will care for us, b/c we will be eaten up in the marketplace of elder care where they think nothing of charging thousands per month for basic care and then extra for anything extra. So I suggest those "other family members" making inquiries think long and hard before they rock this boat, unless the mother is not getting proper care and I suggest everyone, especially the woman giving care, get some kind of agreement regarding pay and duties since she could lose her situation at any moment and she and her son will be homeless with no severence, health insurance, etc. And I was wondering about a statement that someone made, to go thru an agency b/c of insurance. Were you referring to the aide being insured for themselves or their acts in the home? My mother has some aide hours funded thru a state program. The agencies they subcontract with, consider the aide, a independent contractor. They do not provide them with any insurance and state they are not liable for the aides acts. So why do they take about 8 dollars of every $18 per hour they charge for the aide? If you want to talk about moochers, then maybe a discussion on commercial care providers should be appropriate. PS: regarding the son, is he managing the household, etc, providing transporation. . Try to get a quote in the "real" world about how much case management would cost. This is not to say there are not family members and strangers out there who take advantage of the elderly. But it can not be assumed this is true in every case. I'm adding my comments here b/c I believe most people are absolutely unaware of how draining, financially, physically , timewise and emotionally caregiving is. Good caregivers, whether family, friends or hired help should be respected for what they do. If I had a family member who needed a place to stay who would provide excellent care for another family member, as opposed to the person being removed from their home to uncertain care of strangers, especially if I wasn't paying for it myself but my mother was, i would not be hiring financial planners to investigate the situation. I would be thankful i could go back to my full time job, my own life knowing my mother was safe.

2much2cover: A couple in Florida, now living in The Villages provided care at one time for their aging parents who have passed on. These people were not paid for their services, but were paid for everything that was purchased. They knew, at the time of service, that they were the beneficiaries of the life insurance policies of their parents. They didn't know how much. Shock and awe! The payouts were enormous. Everyone benefitted from this wonderful story. The parents were well cared-for, and the grown "children" were rewarded handsomely.

N1K2R3 , not sure why you addressed this comment to me, but in my case, i know my family member has no insurance so there is not going to be any big "payout" to me, nor would I expect one. And I wouldn't advise anyone to count on a possible payout from insurance or a will. You might be very disappointed. And other familiy members might challenge it anyway. In fact, if I was under anyone's care, I would be afraid to have a life insurance policy that paid my caregiver in the event of my death since my life is in their hands. I'm glad it worked out for this family but the reality is, these people still gave up years of their life to caregiving, time which you can never get back. But for many caregivers this is not a consideration, some valuing the beneiftis they provided vs time not available to shop at a mall or do any of the other things we caregivers think we could or should be doing. Many caregivers will be left at the end of caregiving with lost careers, lost time, older and in poorer health. Money will only help to buy them a caregiver.

and don't foget, anyone relying on a life insurance payout from your parent or client or whatever. There may be end of life expenses from hospitals, nursing homes, etc that eat up all that insurance money you might be counting on.
And since there is a financial planner involved in this case, I'm sure they have looked into life insurance issues.

to clarify, if caregiver was not specifically named in the insurance, that money may be lost or if caregiver expects to remain in the home and there are mortgages against the home and other debts of the deceased, they might have to pay off the debts to save the home in deceased's name if they want to keep it from being sold to pay the debts.

The reason I mentioned about agency aides being better because they are insured by the agency in case they get hurt while working or somehow themselves cause damage-I do not know anything about state programs. Here in my state agencies charge more for aide hours than someone working on their own because some of that money does go to the agency for insurance payments-it is over 25 dollars an hour for an agency aide -I do not know how much the aides earn but the ones working in the NH my husband had rehab in 3 yrs ago made 15 an hour and when we hired them to work on their off hours we paid them one dollar more an hour then they got at work.

You can never count on getting a house or life insurance because most people do end up in nursing homes because being taken care of at home gets too hard-it usually is only one adult child doing it all and it simply gets too difficult for one person being availabe 24/7 and as soon as they get into the nursing home-the first person on the scene is the social worker asking about home ownership and then what assests the person has and these days they do not even need family help they can get any information they need-my lawyer got a retainor for 5 hrs. when I was starting to apply for medicaide so it all probably would have taken his staff about 2 hrs to do all of it-they rush it through so the nursing home get paid.

I guess, that I work for alot cheaper. I only ask for 300.00 a month to pay some of my bills ( lights,gas, phone). I haven't worked in 3 years doing everything for my mom. My daughter, son in law and granddaughter live with my mom. They do all of the up keep of he house and yard. I am my mom, she does barely nothing, I do it all for her because I LOVE HER. I have a borther and sister that don't help with anything. But the worst thing of all they don't call to see how she's doing. But when they call me it's about them always them. And I'll try to say something about our mom and there's really nothing from them. When I first started doing my mom I would be mad and fight with them about not caring,but now I understand you can't make someone care if they can't do it themselfs. And the best joy I get is being with my mom,and having a wonderful husband that lets me beable to do this,because it takes away from being with him. Since she doesn't live with us. I go to her house 2 to 3 times a day to take care of her, then go back to my house to feed my husband and see him for a little bit before he goes to bed. B y the time I'm done for the day, I might see my husband one more time before I go to bed. I do wish the goverment would some day come up with a plan to pay us caregivers, that parent owns there home and help with supplies and not want to take there house. It's just so much more cheaper than a nursing home and even more there's family love. I always wonder how many people are out there that had to put there love one in a nursing home,and didn't want too. Why not pay me a small amount each month,instead of 3000.00 or more for a nursing home and all the other things that go with it. Well maybe someday that might happen. Good Luck to all that are caregivers.

Roxy I do not think that will ever happen paying a small amount to take care of their elders instead of a nursing home charging $450.00 a day for substandard care-I would like to think it will happen but too many people are employed by the government who do not want to lose their jobs for it ever to happen. Caregivers need to continue to speak out-I do every chance I get when someone running for political office is asking for my vote I bring up home health care - I did get 3 of them to listen to me and one even reported a caseworker from APS who terrorized me with unfounded charges to me. I did not ever think domestic violance would ever come out of the dark and be talked about but it finally is-we just need a celaberity who is a hands on caregiver to come forward.

As long as the care is competent and respectful, I agree with the wonderful answers you have already gotten. The cost in my area for full time NH care is around 5000-7000, plus "incidentals". Jeanne broke up the issue beautifully. If there is any discrepancy, it might be in whether the son and grandson (is he a minor, or an adult?) are contributing sufficiently, be it through maintenance, driving, buying groceries, or whether they should be paying some rent. Wonderful answers; kudos to my peers for such thoughtful and complete responses!

I have been reading all the comments and it made me think. When we become caregivers, we are sent to the end of the social line. Even though the job is a crucial one, people don't really see it that way. They might talk about how important and rewarding it must be to take care of someone, but I've learned it is just lip service from most people. Even within the family, the caregiver is at the end of the social line. The people who are not providing care are too busy or too important to do these things.

That it should even be asked if a caregiver should receive a halfway decent wage shows the actual feeling of the family for the caregiving. The money to them is more important than the care. If the mother is receiving good care, then shame on them for even questioning $2900 plus housing. Would these family members work for less in their own jobs?

I live in Illinois and take care of my mother who has Alzheimer's. I am her care-giver. We have moved mother into our home and I take care of all of her finances, health and day to day living. We met with an attorney to find out how to best handle her finances and the subject came up about her paying me for care (my brothers suggestion). We were advised that we can't if we ever intend to put her into a home. If medicare is involved they will make us repay any funds she gave us. I do let her pay for her products (diapers, ensure, etc.) and she is in day-care while I work which she pays for. These expenses are natural and okay but it is not okay to charge her rent or her share of utilities, etc. Hope this helps.

Principal - I'm assuming you are an advisor to one of the siblings who likely is the one who is POA or is the sibling that has is more financially savvy and is trying to figure out or set up a long range plan for mom and balance competing opinions on mom & mom's money. Your client is not the one making noise on where is mom's $$ going. Am I close?

In so many ways, this is an ideal situation in that mom staying in her familiar environment; family is about 24/7 for her; family is compensated which mom can afford and other family does not have to manage mom's situation. However, I will share my crystal ball (which I'm borrowing from JeannieGibbs) as to the future:
- eventually if they live long enough, mom will imho, run out of $ and the caregiver will run out of steam as mom's needs will exceed the caregivers ability
- mom will need to enter a NH as the other children will not be caregivers
- how to pay for the NH then becomes sticky: if mom is generationally wealthy she can afford 5K - 10K NH a month private pay, roughly 85K a year. No worries except how to deal with probate and you can assist the executor in this. BUT if
mom isn't wealthy, the current situation presents a host of problems.

If mom applies for Medicaid, the 3K a month can become a 36K Medicaid transfer penalty (3 x 12) multiplied by each year which someone from the family will have to pay or make an arragnement with the NH to pay in order for mom to stay there. Now mom can do a "personal services contract" with them for 3K a mo, done by an elder care attorney so that it can pass her states Medicaid review, so that the 3K a mo is an expense of daily life and is not a gift. The contract should list responsiblities and time frame and how compensation is done. Mom would do a 1099 on it and they would have this as reportable income of 36K a year.

Personally I think mom should not be writing these checks but this done either by one of the other kids or by an attorney or FA paid to manage this. I would make sure that there are NO accounts co-mingled between mom and the caregivers. A set amount for Mom's daily needs would be paid via a debit card which the caregiver has with on-line access to all family members. Caregivers cannot use debit card to pay for any of their needs as their 3K a mo income does that & having on-line access allows for family to micromanage (& complain) if they want to. I would have mom pay for the utilities as this is just easier (assuming she can afford it) BUT I'd have the caregivers pay for anything cable or internet. Mom doesn't need Netflix or will be doing multiplayer Call of Duty MW3.

The 1099 income also builds SS kitty for the caregiver for the day they retire especially if they do not have enough quarters credit or their past pay was low.
However, my experience is that folks that are being paid under the table, will NOT want to go to a reportable taxed income mode as they likely are getting other benefits (SNAP or medical) becasue they are low income. If this is the case, then I'd suggest a family meeting at a neutral location (elder care law office). Unless the sibling (which I'm assuming is your client) has a huge portfolio with you, this could be a big sticky mess which I'd gracefully avoid as the other siblings will be contacting you way too much for opinions in areas that is not your expertise and could be an issue with compliance (if you've got a series7).

i think there is an error above. medicaid will actually pay the caregiver an hourly wage for caring for their loved one...if monies go to the care of the ill person, medicaid is not going to ask for the money back...if you are receiving some lump sum of monies from you LO you are right, medicaid will look and wonder, But the caregiver is indeed entitled to be compensated

The attorney advised that is only if you have a caregiver agreement already set up and signed by the parent prior to their becoming incapacitated.

JessieBelle - "end of the social line" - you nailed it!

Suz - was this regarding my commentary? Some states do not do waivers at all, some states have waivers for AL, some states have dental waivers, this is part of what is so maddening in dealing with Medicaid as each state and sometimes county puts it's spin on rules. Some states view your caring for a family member as noncompensationable (you do it out of love) so if they pay you without a personal services legal contract (as Diane said prior to becoming incapacitated) that $ could be viewed a gift and there could be a Medicaid transfer penalty if they apply for NH Medicaid and the $ surfaces.

For further clarification...I was asked by the daughter, who has POA for her elderly mother, to meet with the live-in brother and his "boy friend". The 22 year old son does not work and does not contribute around the house. The boy friend, caregiver, is a computer programmer who "works from home" AND takes care of my elderly client.

I work from home part time and take care of my family member 24/7 with the exception of about 20 hours aide that comes in. So, assuming he is available when needed by the woman, working from home shouldn't affect things, other than it will help keep him from going crazy been cooped up at home all day/night, assuming she is not ever left alone. Is he trained to provide the care she needs, now and into the future? Is the woman comfortable with him giving her care? How did they arrive at the monetary figure? Does he have set hours? Just do the math and you will find out his hourly wage and I still wouldn't count room and basic food while on duty since it is live in. After you calculate that, if you find him underpaid, then factor in cost of food, etc for son. What does son do all day if he doesn't work? A student? That's another situation in itself, since someone that age, unless handicapped, etc should be doing something including helping around the house if he is getting free rent and food. But this is apparently the son's family so there are plenty of families that live this way. If the only issue to this daughter is is "hired help" being paid too much, then let her try to find out how to replace them and what it will cost, including her time to oversee. And is the mother competent to make her own decisions if she wants the son and his family to stay? What does the son of the woman do all day? Bottom line is, someone has to take care of the mother and her comfort and happiness should be the main issue, along with her monetary situation. If she runs out of money, will the son pick up and leave? who owns the house? I don't think you can expect the friend to work for free. Many caregivers, including myself work for free and sacrifice our time, health, careers, etc. but that's b/c our supposed "family values" society turns it's back on caregivers and their charges so basically, if the person needing care has no funds, insurance, etc, you either have to turn your back and they end up in a substandard, institiutional living situation or the caregiver has to make the sacrifice to care for them in their home as long as they can. By the way, sounds like this woman has money, so what is the daughter doing for her? Does she spend time careing for her? Perhaps she should volunteer some hours to reduce the costs being charged by the friend and give him respite also?

I think compensation is reasonable. Caregiving is a huge responsibility and liability. Keeping people at home and well cared for is a gift. It saves resources that might be needed later, and it makes elderly person happy. I think they are healthier and content to be at home as long as possible.

We go through this every week with a few of the siblings. Every sibling has their day to be responsible for Mom's care. I am the primary and have Friday all day, plus every night and every weekend with time off for my full time job and some time off for socializing. I live here rent free, but pay for food, clothing, meds, and take care of all medical appointments and hospital stays with rotating family members. Two of the SIX siblings expect to be paid for their day although they are supported financially by other family members and one is on welfare and refuses to work period. It's a constant battle for these two and I personally don't feel that immediate family members should be paid. If you have outside help, then yes, they should be paid, but you can't have a house full of moochers living off the parents in their hour of need, that is just morally and ethically WRONG in my opinion!

For the person doing the work as a full time care giver in this specific case, yes, she should be paid and given room and board. This is indeed a hard job as someone else posted. If the men are just mooching, then they need to move on or get off their butts to help out. They shouldn't be living there waiting for the demise of their relative and expecting an inheritance! For some, there is no such thing as an inheritance! This type of care is expensive on the outside and I can tell you after seeing what my aunt went through in a nursing home (grant it, there are some good ones out there) i wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!

Daily caregiving...if you called an person other than the friend i would find out the fee they would charge...post such an ad on craigslist? Out of the persons salary however, he needs to buy his food, pay a port of rent and utilities I would think but perhaps as someone said, it should be free room and board. if the caregiver works from home how many hours a day is he working on compututing beacause he should ot get paid by the elderly woman for that. I don't really have a good sound opinnion.