Will the debate over Medicare sway your vote in the 2012 election?

I just want to remind ever one that the republican's did not want Medicare to ever start they fought it for years .So they still try to screw it up now they want to be over and feel like they are better than every one else and alway's have have weighted them self's that way

If anyone is interested, there are some newspapers starting to write stories about boths sides Medicare plans. If you do a search you will find at least these two
Palm Beach Post: medicare truths elude both sides

Los Angeles Times: The Medicare feud explained: both sides would cut but GOP more

Has anyone seen any other articles trying to cut through to the facts?

Blackandwhite, you are delusional. Stop watching MSNBC and pick up a Wall Street Journal once in a while. Maybe then you will have a better understanding of how Obamacare is destroying medicare.

Consistent with what I've been writing here all along...if Medicare, or any issue, will be deciding factors for how they vote, people should seek out info on the topic from: A) Independent sources (don't have a close connection to either party, or anything to gain) Or, if you don't know who that is or how to find them...B) watch/read a variety of diverse sources and compare details.

Wall Street Journal (right leaning) is not independent or unbiased in their views, nor is MSNBC (left leaning). So, in trying to find a balance...perhaps voters could get info from both and weigh the details. But, only watching a source from one side of the spectrum does tend to influence people's thinking...on both sides.

I read an AP article in the newspaper about free healthcare in a communist country. With people thinking it is their inalienable right to free healthcare, they end up going to a doctor every time they sneeze. They demand medical tests, medication (sometimes for their personal stash),etc. and when the doctors don't meet their demands, they get hostile and aggressive. The doctors bow to their demands because they get no respect and fear consequences. The hospitals and medical offices are in poor repair with peeling paint, etc. The $$$ for medical care has dwindled and now the country is cutting back on medical care.
It is a frightening situation when services are free.

Americans spend twice as much as residents of other developed countries on healthcare, but get lower quality, less efficiency and have the least equitable system, according to a nonprofit study. The United States ranked last when compared to six other countries -- Britain, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand. I think it’s time for “Obamacare”.

VickiG...I think the key to the story you read is "free healthcare in a communist country". You shouldn't try to make comparisons with that country or their health care system because the USA is not communist (the docs here don't work for the govt.) and the healthcare won't be free.

Actually, a better comparison is here in the U.S....the state of Massachusetts, where a very similar plan as The Affordable Care Act has been in place since 2006. It is referred to as...RomneyCare.

I find the irony in some of these arguments quite scary. On the one hand, they argue that under a "free communist" medical care system, that people will abuse the system and overuse it. Then on the other hand, they argue, Obama wants death panels and non medical people who tell you when and for what you get treatment. VickiG it sounds like you support such panels to prevent "those other people, not you of course" from going to the dr whenever they think they need to. And they want to keep "their" Medicare untouched, when many who are getting medical care today under Medicare have never paid into the system what they are getting out of it (or to clarify, doctors, hospitals, and nursing homes are getting the money, recipients are getting the "care". Basically, these people, who actually pretend they paid for medicare are getting really close to free medical care, so are they saying Medicare is a communist system?
So, exactly what do you want, a system that let you personally, for a small percentage contribution overall to get whatever care you think you should get but you want to deny others access to the same care (who didn't pay their "share") and you don't care if in the future the changes that you think will perserve your care system will leave them without the same care when they need it?
And, it's ok to have panels for that "other guy" but not for you?

A very interesting tidbit on the news the other day that caught my ear and that is if Republicans were truly interested in destroying Medicare, they could have done that already--they have been saying this about Republicans for so many years, I lost count. In fact, if this were a truism, think of all the opportunities over the past years they could have done just that. Hasn't happened, though, now has it? This tactic of twisting the facts and 'Medi-scare' will be hard and heavy for the next two months. Demonizing the opposition is rampant. The onus is on the people to find reputable websites and do their due diligence in seeing exactly where the candidates stand on the issues. Americans already bought a bunch of lies hook, line and sinker and if honest with oneself, it simply cannot be denied.

PS If you pay attention really closely you will see that all of this is a smokescreen, this focus on Medicare--designed to take you off topic and the crisis that is the economy, joblessness, the ever growing debt, the downgrade to our credit rating, the housing crisis, etc. etc. etc. and the fact that 4 more years of this administration is going to bring us to our knees. You won't have to be focusing on Medicare by the time Mr. Obama accomplishes his agenda to destroy the U.S.A. that he hates so much. You voted in an anti-American, whether you believe it or not and one that does not give one damn about any of us. You better pay real attention to that fact and get rid of the animosity for the "other party." Like the old saying goes "you ain't seen nuthin' yet."

Does that mean the premium going to be sky rocketed because someone has a pre-condition with the Obama plan? I pay a high premium because it only one that offer a little more selective speicalize physician which I need for my health. Yet, it will not pay much for name-brand medication vs generic n I understand why but, I cannot take one of them in generic form for its too risky for my health. Yet, I still pay a very high price for that particular prescriptionbecause without it I will die. They really need to tackle problems like this too.

What is a smoke screen and is shocking are all the lies I keep hearing from Romney. It's apalling! I just don't trust him!

Yeah...you 'keep hearing' things to make you distrust Romney, but you somehow miss the last approx. 4 yrs. of broken promises, out and out lies and the clear fact that obama wants to turn this country into the United Socialist States of Americal. Somehow THAT eludes you and you 'trust' what we have for another 4 yrs. It is remarkable.

PunchNJudy: why don't you tell us what part of the triple R plan (Romney, Ryan, Republicans) that will do anything for the economy (other than the wealthy who live off of investments, like Ryan's mother with her Medicare safety net, 2nd winter home valued at almost one half million). Don't forget that it was 8 years of Bush who put us into this mess, with costly wars, no bank regulation, etc. Under the triple R agenda, which is against birth control and any abortions, against gun control of any kind, against increasing taxes on those who can afford to be increased, against govt programs that help the midddle and lower income, this society is going to turn into one with endless unwanted children, increasing the burden on states to care for them, including when they are abused or neglected, including increasing costs for the court system where they end up either as victims or juvenile and adult offenders due to lack of care as children. More mass klllings of our neighbors by our neighbors due to unregulated guns and ammunition available. Cuts in Medicaid, which families of the elderly and disabled who can not afford private care and have to work or who can't care for them at home have to leave them to substandard, unregulated nursing homes and assisted living facilities. I want to see more government programs like training for home health aides and day care centers which will support small business people who are creating businesses that help their community while they help themselves. Programs for the young in trades who in turn can during their appreticeship, work on projects in their community. Tax cuts for the wealthy do nothing but enable people like Ryan's mother to buy a more expensive health insurance plan along with her govt voucher hard working young taxpayers are going to be paying for while being told, sorry if you are under 55 you might be left to the priviate health insurance industry when you reach Ryan's mother's age.

2much2cover--you need to wake up. The "blame BUSH" excuse is way over and Mr. FixIt with whom you continue to have your "slobbering love affair" has caused our mess, not Bush, evidenced by his lack of experience, lies, and socialist agenda. You want to get off that liberal bleeding heart soapbox of yours? If you want things to be fixed you need a few people with a brain in their heads and a TRUE love of America. Oh, and the stupidity to think the wealthy don't pay taxes is no longer laughable, it's sad...and it is a sad state of affairs for liberals to detest anyone who has more wealth than they do. You know that 15 TRILLION dollar debt we have? Well guess what--OBAMA BUILT THAT. Gun control? Oh yes, I forgot...the theory that becoming a victim is somehow morally superior to defending yourself and your family makes perfect sense. Switzerland's govt. issues anyone who wants a gun gets one, trains them how to use it, and lo and behold, guess who has the lowest gun related crime rate of any civilized country in the world? Very good. You guessed it. As Wm. Buckley said "liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." Your diatribe proves exactly what he said. You won't open your ears to hear that maybe, just maybe the R and R team might actually have a solid plan to fix some of obama's mess (yes, OBAMA's mess). Incredulous that anyone can actually entertain another 4 years of this horror show called the presidency, of which we will never recover if he gets his way. The essential difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals could not exist without conservatives to defend their freedom and support them economically. Conservatives on the other hand could exist and live quite well without liberals. I rest my case.

PunchNJudy: You still didn't tell me what the triple R plan is to save us from Obama. By the way, maybe you can tell me what your suggestions are for a young woman who works very hard as an aide to the elderly. Nearing 30, but without health insurance, she decided to get pregnant anyway b/c that's what conservatives like you promote young straight people should do - have families. Neither parents, both work, have health insurance. So, all the conservatives out there, the money meter has started running (I am a working taxpayer by the way) . So far there is one trip to the emergency room related to pregnancy (b/c no health insurance emergency room only option for her). Now plans to apply for Medicaid. So, under the Obama program she could buy in to health insurance, under the R program, she should, what's that advice? Carry her child she wants and give it away for adoption b/c she is a working poor woman? Find a church that will support her until she can go back to the same low paying job with no health insurance?

And PunchNJudy, do you or any members of your family have Medicare, that socialist program?

And PunchNJudy, do you hire aides in your family? Have you checked to see if the agency covers them for health insurance, sick leave, etc If you private hire, are you paying for these benefits? If not, I guess you are looking the other way while they do this highly personal work for you and if they get sick or pregnant you will just have them replaced, I guess? If you will support them, please send contact info so I can send this young lady your way.

Oh, and PunchNJudy, the wealthy pay taxes, just a lot less dollar for dollar than people like me. (Rommney 15%, Obama 25%, me more than ROmney, less than Obama. And if they truely love the USA, they would be willilng to pay a higher porportionate percentage b/c their income allows them to more than meet their day to day needs, and then some. If you earn 20,000 paying 10 percent or 2000 takes a big chunk our of your take home pay. but if you earn 200,000 off of investments paying 10 percent or 20,000 still leaves you with 180,000 to take your taxpayer medicare voucher helped paid for by the 20,000 income person and stir in some of your "hard earned dividends) and buy yourself a nice priviate industry conceirge health insurance policy.

and PunchNJudy, since you cited Switzerland, I will cite it also:
Swiss are required to purchase basic health insurance, which covers a range of treatments detailed in the Federal Act. It is therefore the same throughout the country and avoids double standards in healthcare. Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans.[1]

Regulations also restrict the allowable policies and profits that a private insurer may offer, as noted by healthcare economics scholar Uwe Reinhardt in a review in JAMA.

When everything in Switerzand is the same as everything is the USA, then you can tell me about their gun policy. Right now, I see innocent people being killed in mass killings in our communities becoming more frequent every day and the R party not wanting to limit those weapons of mass destruction and ammunition being sold to anyone who wants to buy them.

Kudo's to PunchNJudy !!!!!!

Still waiting for someone to tell me how the Romney plan will "save" the economy or even prevent it from sinking as Obama did when left with the years of Bush.

"FDR was called a socialist when he passed Social Security. JFK and Lyndon Johnson, they were both accused of a government takeover of health care, when they passed Medicare"

How many R's are willling to give up their Medicare and Social Security? I can tell you it sure isn't the elected R's in Washington, b/c they have not give their up.

Stop preaching to a choir until you know what the "choir" endures themselves. I won't even begin to tell you what MY health care, personally costs, so don't give me the BS that the democrats are working hard to help the less than wealthy, a category that I easily fall into, by the way. The difference is, I don't hate the wealthy, I commend them. They are the reason our country grew, we had jobs, commerce, good economy and a great credit rating in the U.S. Get your numbers right and stop spewing the garbage you hear on MSNBC. Ironically in my local paper today "There is a widening economic divide. Ameri­ca’s middle class has been shrinking in the stagnant economy, and poverty is now approaching 1960s highs, while wealth con­centrates at the top. In fact, well-off people do shoulder a big share of the tax burden. Though households earning more than $1 million annually comprise just 0.3 percent of all taxpayers, they pay 20 percent of all federal taxes the government is projected to collect this year, according to the Tax Policy Center, a nonparti­san group that studies tax policy. In contrast, households earning $50,000 to $75,000 a year accounted for 12 percent of taxpayers and contributed 9 percent of federal taxes, the center’s data showed." Clearly, you don't open your eyes and realize that your points all favor SOCIALISM...so yes, stay where you are and vote for your messiah, obama. Then let me hear from you in 4 years to hear your belly aching about how you were fooled not once, but twice by this wolf in sheep's clothing. Also, you go off on a tangent. Switzerland is a wealthy country. I POINTED to them re: GUN CONTROL and not health care! And what in H are you rambling about "innocent people being killed in our communities?" You want to blame republicans FOR THAT? Sending me the woman who decides to get pregnant? You are a rambling mass of misconceptions, fond of copying and pasting propaganda and, true to your liberal roots, out to come off as an EXPERT in every topic under the sun. Oh and by the way, I won't even 'go there' in disclosing what my husband and I paid personally out of pocket for our own health care last year, including premiums, deductibles, co-pays, Rx and dental. You have no conception that R and R are all about preserving Medicare for future generations. I think your diatribe will definitely be reason enough for me to NOT follow this topic, since clearly, there is nothing to learn here as long as you persist in firing off your misguided, unfactual copies/pastings! I can only hope and pray we have new blood in our White House, solidly planning a solution to so many obama-caused dilemmas, instead of bringing us down any further than our poor country has already sunk, at the hands of your "messiah." And by the way...the open mic gaffe of obama whispering in Putin's ear "I can't do anything right now, wait until after the election?" Funny. We don't hear too much about these things, do we? No one demanded of the imperial one "what did you mean by that?" But we do hear about mediscare, abortion, and gun control. Poverty level is exactly what obama wants for ALL OF US. He is NOT INTERESTED in a thriving America. There is a much bigger picture here, but no one "goes there." Interesting.

And my final post on this topic:
Any Democrats care to offer a similar set of statements about Romney?
WHEN I WAS FINISHED READING THIS I WAS SHORT OF BREATH…
.
Looking back through the past 4 years, many "Whens" pop up. Read them all to better understand where we are going as a country…

WHEN - he refused to disclose who donated money to his election campaign, as other candidates had done, people said it didn't matter. (But we are all to be very concerned about Mr. Romney's personal money and his campaign funding!)
WHEN - he received endorsements from people like Louis Farrakhan, Mommar Kaddafi, and Hugo Chavez, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - it was pointed out that he was a total newcomer and had absolutely no experience at anything except community organizing, people said it didn't matter. (And his fellow COs will avow he wasn't even good at that!)
WHEN - he chose friends and acquaintances such as Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn who were revolutionary radicals, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - his voting record in the Illinois Senate and in the U.S. Senate came into question, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he refused to wear a flag lapel pin and did so only after a public outcry, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he stood with his hands over his groin area for the playing of the National Anthem and Pledge of Allegiance, people said it didn't matter. (a/k/a the obama 'crotch salute'.)
WHEN - his personal background was either scrubbed or hidden and nothing could be found about him, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - the place of his birth was called into question, and he refused to produce a birth certificate, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he had an association in Chicago with Tony Rezko - a man of questionable character and who is now in prison and had helped Obama to a sweet deal on the purchase of his home - people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - it became known that George Soros, a multi-billionaire Marxist, spent a ton of money to get him elected, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he started appointing White House Czars that were radicals, revolutionaries, and even avowed Marxist Communists, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he stood before the Nation and told us that his intentions were to "fundamentally transform this Nation" into something else, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - it became known that he had trained ACORN workers in Chicago and served as an attorney for ACORN, people said it didn't matter (and encouraged voter fraud, by the way).
WHEN - he appointed cabinet members and several advisers who were tax cheats and socialists, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he appointed Cass Sunstein as Regulatory Czar who believes in "Explicit Consent," harvesting human organs without family consent and allowing animals to be represented in court, while banning all hunting, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he appointed Kevin Jennings, a homosexual and organizer of a group called Gay, Lesbian, Straight, Education Network as Safe School Czar and it became known that he had a history of bad advice to teenagers, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he appointed Mark Lloyd as Diversity Czar who believes in curtailing free speech, taking from one and giving to another to spread the wealth, who supports Hugo Chavez, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - Valerie Jarrett, an avowed Socialist, was selected as Obama's Senior White House Advisor, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - Anita Dunn, White House Communications Director, said Mao Tse Tung was her favorite philosopher and the person she turned to most for inspiration, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he appointed Carol Browner, a well known socialist as Global Warming Czar working on Cap and Trade as the nation's largest tax, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he appointed Van Jones, an ex-con and avowed Communist as Green Energy Czar, who since had to resign when this was made known, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - Tom Daschle, Obama's pick for Health and Human Services Secretary could not be confirmed because he was a tax cheat, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - as President of the United States, he bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, people said it didn't matter..
WHEN - he traveled around the world criticizing America and never once talking of her greatness, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - his actions concerning the Middle East seemed to support the Palestinians over Israel, our long time ally, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he took American tax dollars to resettle thousands of Palestinians from Gaza to the United States, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he upset the Europeans by removing plans for a missile defense system against the Russians, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he played politics in Afghanistan by not sending troops early-on when the Field Commanders said they were necessary to win, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he started spending us into a debt that was so big we could not pay it off, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he took a huge spending bill under the guise of stimulus and used it to pay off the organizations , unions, and individuals who helped him become elected, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he took over insurance companies, car companies, banks, etc., people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he took away student loans from the banks and put it through the government, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he designed plans to take over the health care system and put it under government control, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he claimed he was a Christian during the election and tapes were later made public that showed Obama speaking to a Muslim group, where he stated that he was raised a Muslim, educated as a Muslim, and is still a Muslim, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he set into motion a plan to take over the control of all energy in the United States through Cap and Trade, people said it didn't matter.
WHEN - he finally completed his transformation of America into a Socialist State , people woke up--- but it was too late. Add these up one by one and you get a phenomenal score that points to the fact that Barrack Hussein Obama is determined to turn America into a Marxist-Socialist society. All of the items in the preceding paragraphs have been put into place. All can be documented very easily. Before you disavow this, do an Internet search. The last paragraph alone is not yet cast in stone. You and I will write that paragraph. Will it read as above or will it be a more happy ending for most of America ?

Don't just belittle the opposition. Search for the truth. We all need to pull together or watch the demise of a free democratic society. Pray for Americans to seek the truth and take action for it will keep us FREE. Our biggest enemy is not China, Russia, North Korea, or Iran. Our biggest enemy is a contingent of politicians in Washington, DC . The government will not help, so we need to do it ourselves.
Question....will you delete this, or pass it on to others who don't know about Obama's actions and plans for the USA , so that they may know how to vote in November, 2012 and the ensuing years?
It's your decision. I believe it does matter. How about you?
WHEN - November 2012 comes, it will matter who you vote for!
(My own addition: WHEN Michelle Obama announced "it is the first time in my life I am proud of America" It DIDN'T matter!)

Still waiting to hear how the triple R is going to save Medicare, that so called socialist plan. I don't have to say more, your words speak for themselves where you are coming from. And it's not rooted in concern about preserving Medicare.

PunchNJudy- I SO agree with you. I have read several books lately on the President (NonPartison) and what you say is what is being written. Even some of his close friends and mentors have disclosed things in these interviews. GOD will not help us if we don't help ourselves. NOTHING is FREE. Someone pays for it in the end.

So…it’s just the same old hysterics from right wing republicans…I wonder where you’ve got your information….FOX? Rush? Sarah? Ha!

When I read some of these extreme rants posted against the D party and our president of the United States, I can't help but see a parallel between those posting them and those do nothing siblings many of us post about. Like:

Do nothing siblings find it easy to criticize the family members who have stepped up to take on the caregiving tasks.
Extreme R's do nothing but criticize everything the president has tried to do to solve the problems he did not create. They had years to do something and did nothing but make it worse.
Do nothing siblings don't want their safe little world interrupted. They have their work, their friends, their vacations and they don't want to hear about your problems. Afterall, you took on this responsibility of caregiving voluntarily.
Ditto for Rs re the above. Too bad you had some bad luck in life, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.
Do nothing siblings have all the right answers, and they don't hesitate to stick their nose in after the caregiver has been forced to make all the hard decisions and do the hard tasks alone b/c when needed the do nothing siblings would not help.
Ditto for Rs re the above. When Obama tried to get them to joinly solve problems, they turned refused to work with him.
Do nothing siblings won't contribute anything but if there is some money involved they can get their hands on, they will be right there to fight to get it,
Ditto for Rs. Find your own health insurance, but don't touch my govt Medicare.
Do nothing siblings have their own code they live by and if you don't conform to it, they will ignore family who need help.
Rs, especially the extremists, have their own code, if you don't follow it or behave as they expect, they will turn their backs on their fellow citizens and refuse to help them and even try to prevent them from enjoying the same rights they do.

It sad to say but it is hard to trust anyone that lands in the White House, Congress people and the unseen people that makes decisions for r country.

Anyone here ever watch the documentary called, "Inside Job?" I think it came out around 2010. It was a very interesting n it has five parts to watch. It was narrated by Matt Damon n directed by Charles Ferguson. Yes, Obama had his sticky hands in the cookie-jar too with some of these people working under him that was part of the economic meltdown n still has some of them now.

"It begins by examining how Iceland was highly deregulated in 2000 and the privatization of its banks. When Lehman Brothers went bankrupt and AIG collapsed, Iceland and the rest of the world went into a global recession"
You can also get the whole documentary from Netflix.

We need to try n stop bickering of who done who has not done what n start working together if we ever going to get out of this mess for our children n grandchildren's future. The first step I think is to stop bickering at each other n start using that energy to come up with ideas on how to get this done. Hopefully, I did not offend anyone for that is not what the purpose of my post. Everyone have a good night.

Unfortunately after all this jabbing, especially between PunchNJudy & 2much2cover, no opinions or votes have been changed. But feathers have been ruffled and blood pressure raised. It's been interesting to watch. If this is any indication, it's scarey to imagine how politics and the debate climate will escalate by 2016.