Will the debate over Medicare sway your vote in the 2012 election?

It's become clear that the only way to have an intelligent election in this country would be to forbid candidates from taking a position on abortion, gay marriage, or any of the other non-issues. I say "non-issues" because whether a candidate is rabidly for or against has almost no effect upon what gets legislated on those issues.
Unfortunately, many voters would rather feel than think. So, they're easy prey for candidates looking to stir the pot in their favor. If I have no realistic plan to fix medicare, the deficit, the wars, but I state as often as possible that "life begins at conception", "marriage is a sacred relationship between a man and a woman." Bingo! I've got the vote of a certain demographic of Americans!
It's frightening.

to: likeamother... see.. human... I understand completely... though you care for someone of the older generation and I care for a gereration after me.. we are in the same boat.. I fear for what is to come for my daughter... I will most certainly die before her and the anguish that I feel today and the heart ache that I cannot provide the constant needs either financially, emotionally or governmental... she is certainly up a creek without that perverbial pattle... my opinion does nothing to change the way the government cares or sees the lives of those less fortunate then themselves. The sub-level care that would be provided, would see my daughter in the ground within a very short time. I can not place her in a home because the cost is unconscionable, she has to be hospitalized first before she would be admitted and if I could even think to afford it she would be on a waiting list for years... so it seems. Her age does not qualify her for many different benefits. As was stated above from another post her abilities for self care is comprimised.. wheel chair bound, not able to dress, feed, potty, hell she is 24/7 care... and because she can not wheel herself around herself or transfer herself for personal hygiene needs they won't even take her into a daycare center so I can find some form of respite.. I am one of the ones that gave up a good job, where we needed the double salery... my husband and I make do with just the one. I am round the clock caregiver. I so understand what you are saying about meds and only recieving what someone else thinks your loved one should be recieving. My mom who is doing very well on her own... somehow she survives on pittens... but she prioritises her meds, doctor needs, food in order to conform to what the government feels she should be able to live on. Her life to the government, as well as any of our lives or those we are caring for, isn't worth the worth of a penny! Thank you for sharing your story with me. This whole issue of what will be in the future and is now is real scary. It is all so unsettling. We survive as best as we can and I appriciate those of you here that are humble enough to wear their life and experiences out on their sleeves.

There we go... I aplaude 2much2cover ... this is what I expect to read here.. you are 100% correct in what you say. I want to be able to understand a view on a personal level. The "tit for tat" level of thinking is just opinion and powerless. The personal view with personal experience is powerful and understandable. When experience can over shadow the blanket opinions of many of the writings on this specific posted question then it becomes personal and ownership of the rebuke is solid and sure. We all have experience with most of the issues that have been posted. I can understand now from your last writings, what your story is and the humanitarian you really are. This is more of what I expected to be reading from this question. I have written many times on this site... we all have a different story and we all come from different backrounds but in the end we are all human and we all shoulder the weight of pain and sorrow and need in the same manner. I am very gratful to have read your last posting... your writing is on target!!

I can’t believe what I’m reading from this Annabelle. You may have a mother, but you couldn’t possibly have a child…at least I hope you don’t. Your words regarding children are cold and callus. You are the type to turn head the other way. Besides you’re having too much fun putting down and condemning their mother.

Anniebelle, I'll say it again. It’s too bad one of our political parties care more about the unborn than they do the living.

I meant NOT worth the cost.

BBrady, you stated " I have yet to read a comment that would purtain to the effect that any change in medicare would have on your specific life. "

I did cite a personal effect on my dear Aunt. She is being limited to the amount of Procrit she can receive since Jan 2012 due to new medicare policys in the new Health plan. Unless her numbers are below 10, she is not approved for her injection. Previously it was below 11. 12 is considered low normal and 8 to 9 sometimes requires a blood transfusion. This is to replace the blood cells that are depleted due to her kidney failure. When her numbers get low, she is weak, listless and very tired. The Dr and Nurses feel so bad that their hands are tied.

So YES, this is a personal example. I have others but there is no point in stateing them, the proponents of the New Health Care would probably agree with the new 'Panels'. She's too old, she's now worth the cost. GOD forgive you.

And Anniebelle-- if they are aborted --- they go straight to heaven

The unborn are the living.

I agree with 2much2cover in that most people are just not aware of what little help there is in their community. I pray that Paul Ryan doesn’t get his hands on Medicare. Fortunately my mother had a career and worked all her life (and this was in the days when most companies offered their employees insurance!) and receives a little money from her savings investments, and social security, but that money will never cover the cost of a nursing facility. The cost for that service today is shocking.
My worry is not only with my mother and what will happen to Medicare. I look at the many children that suffer here in the United States and it makes me ill. I live in a state with over 11,000 foster children with big needs that are not covered, or even cared about. I say it’s too bad that there are political Parties that care more about the unborn than they do the living.

And one more question to Anniebelles, since you mentioned you were trying to help your mother, what would your mother do if she didn't have family, like many elders don't? What local church or temple or charity will give her the help she needs? They don't exist, unless you have money. The local "nonprofit" assisted living facity in my area has a very high priced facility (like over 3000 a month for an apt and they don't even take you if you are in a wheelchair). So who is helping other than the govt? And the same goes for dogs and other unwanted animals, try to call a local non profit and see if they will take the stray mutt you found or cat. Unless it is purebred, they will say the inn is full. and some of these places have millions set aside in their reserves for future building funds.

That's it for me for this topic.

Dear Anniebelles (continued) my prior msg was not completed. You are expecting too much from human nature and the "immoral" problems you claim exist today have been the case way before birth control became widespread. The secret was that the wealthy had options, the poor did not. There have been unwanted children and unwed mothers, sexual diseases, etc throughout history. Unfaithful husbands, passes diseases to their wifes, etc. Clery abusing children under their care in schools and orphanges and local churches. Has your theory worked in Africa or India? Should we all accept that some of us in life must live an Angel's Ashes childhood , assuming we will survive it? And I also disagree that charities can best serve. Today, charities are big business, masquerading under non profit and tax free status. They pay themselves big salaries and spend a lot of the money we give them on "administrative expenses". and they are not paying any taxes. Talk about government waste and corruption. I don't have to list all the big name charities that have been exposed as corrupt. Finally, no I don't want to live in a town or a state counting on the goodness of my churches or temples subject to the control whether or not I will get the help I need should I need it. How many people here are getting help from their local communities. The reality is, most of us have given up our work (or some of it) our finances, our emotional well being, etc to try to do the right thing for our parents . I certainly don't consider my self a saint, highly moral or any of those things you expect of everyone. I am an individual human, a sum of my genetics and upbringing and experiences and I don't judge others inability to help themselves or to not make mistakes or have bad judgement because I have not walked in their shoes. But I do know from experience that the govt can have very useful programs to help people either get back on their feet or improve their lives or take care of them if they are children, ,disabled, elderly or sick. I personally benefitted from federal and state gov loans, workstudy and scholarships to attend college, having come from one of those poor working class families who did not abort their children. And now I am a taxpayer and not upset to pay taxes to help out others in the same situation I grew up in. And I do believe the government can do that best with the right leaders in office and govt can do it without conditions that you follow someone's else moral standards or religion or bias. Not long ago if you weren't the right religion or color you could not get work, go to school, etc. Because you were not up to someone else's idea of standards.

And re we are not dogs. Don't put animals down. They don't want to have endless litters of puppies either. But some owners think it is morally wrong to sterilize them and some are making money off of selling them. Thus we kill millions of healthy animals each year who have no homes at costs to taxpayers of millions of dollars. These poor creatures have no choice either, they are subject to their masters and our societies view of them.

Dear Anniebelles, first, although you took it personally, my reference to wealthy mom, did not apply to you personally, I'm was referring specifically to Mr Ryan and Mr. Rommney and any one else who thinks vouchers are the way to go. I'm glad you and your family can financially help your mother. I am attempting to do the same with mine, turning down medicaid nursing home care, to keep her in her own home.

Dear 2much2cover: you make some points that deserve a calm response.
1. " women who can't afford or properly care for children " should then exercise self respect and restraint by abstaining from 'the act of marriage.' Let's hold ourselves to a higher standard. We are not dogs.
2. "unwanted children" - perhaps the birthmother may not 'want' a child' , but she can give 9 months of her life to birth the child, and select an adoptive family. Children languish in foster care because a birthmother 'wants' the child when he or she is born, but fails to realize she cannot care for this child over the longer term. Hence abuse and neglect leading to foster care.
3. " your wealthy mom " is quite the assumption, don't you think? Without sharing sensitive family information, rest assured my mother is nearly broke. My siblings and I are trying to help her.
4. Access to contraception does not lower abortion rates. Rather, by encouraging the mistaken idea that unrestrained sexual intercourse has no consequence, the last 50 years of our contraceptive culture show wild increases in abortion, divorce, depression, single motherhood, and venereal diseases.
5. I do not ever expect the government to provide for me. My dh and I work hard, plan ahead, rear our children, and restrain our spending for a better chance we can provide for ourselves. We also contribute to a number of charitable organizations. Get the government out of the way, and let real charities do the work for which they are best suited.
6. Investigate the principle of 'subsidiarity.' You may find it makes sense!

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify myself.
Sincerely, Anniebelles.

PunchNJudy...yes I read your post where at the beginning you suggested we were on the same page. But, your later comments gave the impression that you misunderstood what I wrote...that you didn't get it. I'm saying biases can be shaped by the information we consume. If we become biased, that can/usually leads our decisions to the point where we dismiss or discount other ideas. I read a strong bias in your post which IMO was affecting how you shaped your opinion.

My intent was not to be hurtful or disrespectful. But to get people to look in the mirror and ask themselves some questions about how and why they form an opinion. And to understand that most things are not black & white. There can be a variety of opinions or options concerning an issue. Who is to say that the opinion I hold is the right one and people who don't agree with me are absolutely wrong. Why not just conclude that a differing opinion is simply different....not right or wrong but, different than mine? Period.

Soul searching and asking ourselves questions about how and why we come to the conclusions we do (Points A-G), can be uncomfortable. But, it is part of the process in finding truth and fairness in ourselves.

Finally, as I've stated before, it's unfortunate that The Affordable Care Act and now Medicare have become political footballs...taking our focus away from actually talking about health care & Medicare without political bias. However, to not have a discussion on this site, as some have stated, would be irresponsible on the part of AgingCare.com. Afterall, isn't a website which focuses on the care of seniors and our aging population a very appropriate location to discuss the future of health care and Medicare? For those who don't want to read the political tit-for-tat...stay away from this thread. For those who want some "independent" and IMO unbiased information about what the candidates are proposing concerning Medicare there is a good article elsewhere on agingcare.com. You'll find the comparison article and others by clicking on the "caregiver election guide" box in the upper right corner.

In the words of the lovely Nancy Pelosi, something to the effect: "we have to pass it to see what's in it"...there will be similarities and surprises from both sides. Trained lawyers and scholars find these healthcare bills extremely complicated and difficult to interpret. So, I don't think that I or any average citizen can really know how it will affect them until they go to use it.

and Anniebelles: does this mean no Mitt for you? Instead of fighting agains contraception why not join others who also don't think abortion should be a last resort and fight to make sure everyone has access to it? This would follow most the the D way of thinking.

"Mitt Romney's position is clear: He is pro-life. He opposes abortion with exceptions for rape, incest or to save the life of the mother," Romney spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg said.

Contraception has caused a Declining birth rate? I would think that before someone spends all there time preventing women who can't afford or properly care for children from having access to contraception, they would spend their time finding permanent homes for these unwanted kids languishing in foster care, who when they age out of foster care, have no families to help them as they enter young adulthood., Contraception and abortion do relate to the Medicare issue, b/c when you have unwanted children, needing the state's support, there is less money to fund other programs, like communiity care funding for the elderly. I speak as a current working taxpayer paying a higher percentage of my income to taxes than the R candidate for Pres (15%) but less than the taxes paid by the D candidate for Pres (25%)., A good leader has to have empathy for the people they lead. Just b/c your wealthy mom might do better getting a hand out voucher from the govt so you can pick and choose a more expensive and better health insurance, doesn't mean that this will be a good thing for a lower or middle income senior. Just b/c you say you will not change Medicare for those over 55, doesn't mean that you won't change it for under 55 (so if you are under 55, you should start worrying and asking yourself, if these changes are going to be so good, why doesn't the R candidate make his changesw apply to the over 55?

According to the most current AFCARS (Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System Report) Report, released in July 2012, there were approximately 400,540 children in the U. S. in foster care on September 30, 2011. The full report is available online via the Children's Bureau website at: :

Medicare is important, and I do hope for a reform that preserves this option that our government has promised seniors for decades. However, the issue that drives my vote is the horrendously damaging contraception and abortion-push of the left. Contraception damages our country by encouraging promiscuity, eroding marriages, and carving away our economy with a declining birth-rate. Abortion -- who does not understand the evil of a 'doctor' killing a baby and injuring the mother - psychologically and physically - for the rest of her life? Elimnating the stain of abortion on our country is my one most important 'issue.' I will do anything morally acceptable to remove abortion-pusher from office. I currently dedicate many hours of my life to pro-life/ natural family planning cause. And my elderly, infirm mother agrees with me! Medicare is important, but secondary. God Bless the USA.

Like I stated earlier that are living fact's the Republican's have not wanted medicare ever since it was started never mind that my father lost his leg's in 1953 and had to work and find a way to pay for artificial one's to be made and one time I remember one of my uncle's helping him to build a set my father doing the the mettle work and my uncle doing the wood work and at knight pure blood blister's ran from his leg stump's but he worked and paid his taxes which still amount to more than they pay per actual dollar he could not even get welfare yet I would see people walking to the store that I knew for a fact was getting assistance oh yes We did manage to get what was called food comotity which was actually food you could use like powdered egg's, peanut butter, cheese and even grit's all that was good to me and welcome even at preteen age so what are they still wanting to mess with some thing that finally work's and beside's they do not have the skills to improve it for the one's that actually need it .Yes that sway's my vote and I will vote to keep America out of arrogance and to be a more complete nation taking care of it's self
Johnny T.

Waddle--did you not understand that I was agreeing with you? LOL

I'm done talking politics on this site, meant to focus on people with caregiving issues and will turn my attention back to listening, hopefully able to give some helpful advice wherever I am able. This is what brought me to this site in the first place.

Again...I state... this site is not a site to publish your "political beliefs".. this is not a debate forum... with all the comments on this specific question I have yet to read a comment that would purtain to the effect that any change in medicare would have on your specific life. This has turned into a political debate. And certainly many of you that have responded with vindictive anger, hostility and pure politics need to think twice about using this site to point fingers and to suggesst that "caregivers" such as myself should or could just not read this forum comment. You know I come on this site for "respite care and emotional support"... as do many of the "sur-names" that I recognize that have responded. I am kinda disapointed that such hateful and spitful responses have been posted here. If I want to have a political head to head debate I would go to a site that offers confrontation and hate. Sure I can "not be involved" with the question at hand.. I was hoping that some usefull comments may have been posted.. Some respondents need to watch there "Ps and Qs" while posting on a site with volitle, frustrated,hurt and beaten caregivers. This is a site for compassion and empathy. The venting policy is such that we vent because our situation as a caregiver is so extreme and overloaded that we just need someone to talk to.

PunchNJudy...in response to your response of my most recent post: First of all let me state that I am a registered Republican but consider myself an Independent. I am not beholdened to any party. I did not vote for Pres. Obama because I thought he lacked experience. The same reason I did not vote for G. W. Bush his first election. Now, concerning this debate over the current election & candidates...have you noticed I haven't given my opinion on Medicare or the candidates? I'm reading the posts, gathering information from both sides but I have not given my personal opinion about the election. I have made comments about news coverage and politics in general and how voters are consuming the info and forming their opinions. In general I'm not pro-Republican or pro-Democrat. I'm not pro-Romney or pro-Obama. I try to evaluate information and make decisions on who or what approach would be best for our country. I think politics, not a particular party or person, but politics is ruining our country. It can make people crazy. A lot of hurtful and harmful drama, hatred and gamesmanship that I despise. I try to be FAIR, listening to both sides, in how I gather information and coming to conclusions. As I noted in a previous post, I think it's very important and helpful to get news & information from a variety of sources. If you only get info from one source or the same political leaning source, how can you fact-check, how do you know that that information is complete, accurate or fair? I agree with some of what you said in your last post, but there is some that I don't. I would guess from some of the terminology that you use and the thoughts you have expressed that you are only getting your info from one type of source...right, conservative leaning. (Remember I watch a variety of sources) Therefore, how do you know that that information is complete, fair and accurate? What have you compared it to? How do you know? I can say the same to those who only watch/listen to left, liberal leaning media. Example: If a person only eats XYZ brand of vanilla ice cream, how do they know if that's the best ice cream, unless and until they try other flavors and brands? You have formed your opinion and I will not change it, nor am I trying to. But, I will suggest for your consideration... A) not all media, other than what you watch or listen to, is the enemy (liberal leaning). B) Not just the "liberal media" feeds "tripe" to their viewers. C) Not just Democrats/liberals are susceptable to "Mental blocks" .D) Gov. Romney isn't the only one trying to fix the budget & problems. Republicans are not the only ones endowed with problem solving skills.(as evident by G.W. Bush's performance) E) Don't you think there have also been preposterous anti-liberal rantings on this site? But, those don't bother you as well? F) You really think this "path of destruction" began with or was caused by Pres. Obama? History (facts) shows otherwise. G) Neither party or candidate have been perfect angels. Neither are without negatives.

I'm not anti-Romney...nor am I pro-Obama. I'm pro-truth & fairness I'm one of those Independents which everyone is courting for my vote. I long for the days when we debated with information about how wonderful our candidate is and why, instead of tearing down his opponent, often times with half-truths or exagerations or info taken out of context. I guess those days are gone. People don't want to think for themselves anymore.

I knew there was a reason to not speak about politics n etc.. Well, you can say that this area has sparked up some light. At least we all can get r frustration out in the open. ; )
I hope everyone has a good night n some peaceful rest.

I agree that their is no such thing as 'free medical care." Someone is going to have to pay for it somehow. I don't understand why people think the government is suppose to support us? Don't get me wrong for I have received help from the government when i needed it and I am grateful. However, their are people out their that take advantage of the system and believe that the government owes them when they have never worked or even helped put $ back into the system.
I have no idea where this rape n stuff is coming from for if I am rape I would think the woman should have the right to make that decision whether to have the child or not. Rape is rape! The decision should be the woman's choice n not the government.

President Obama did stop the war in one area n sent them right back to another area. My son has done four tour duties within his eight year service n all overseas were from 1 to 1.5 yrs in both Iraq n Afghanistan. He also has a couple of his people working for him that were involved in the Economic Meltdown with the housing where people were swindling n lied too and lost their homes. He seem to start out for the people however, as time went on it seems it all about the people in the White House! Right now, I have no preference who to vote for anymore.

Hey people: How bad does it have to get before we vote for a change? Free medical care is not possible.

mommag, you stated you are not defending him but you are excusing him as an :"archaic sort of guy". Maybe b/c you have not researched this topic enough. He is not archaic, this is an agenda as explained in the article I cited to above. These politicans know exactly what they are saying and to what segment they are attempting to appeal to. Thanks to the national media for bringing this to the public's attention and forcing the Republican party to official disown him. However, as pointed out, his views against abortion, even in cases of rape are the same as VP canddate Ryan.

fyi: The article goes on to say:

While Akin's views on rape and pregnancy may come as a surprise to many, it is commonly cited in anti-abortion circles and stems at least partly from the writings of Dr. John Willke, former president of the National Right to Life Committee. He put forth the view in a book originally published in 1985.

Willke this week summarized his views to The New York Times, saying, "This [rape] is a traumatic thing -- she's, shall we say, she's uptight," he said of a woman who is being raped. "She is frightened, tight and so on. And sperm, if deposited in her vagina, are less likely to be able to fertilize. The tubes are spastic."

Willke also contended that pregnancy is unlikely because half of rapists "do not deposit sperm in the vagina," either because (he said) many rapists aren't fertile and many prefer anal intercourse.

2much...you left the first few words of my post..."I am not defending Akin..." That should have been a clue. I guess Akin is just an archaic sort a guy. I do not live in Missouri, nor do I know anything about this person or any of the good things he may have done for his constituents in the past, so I can't say if I would vote or not vote for him based on this gaff...something that happens to a lot of politicians these days.

when someone posts: "but he based what he said on a scientific theory that has been around since the 13th century...if you research the theory, you could conceivably understand where he was coming from...but the media likes to take off on these sorts of things."

It sounds to me like they believe that theory and are blaming the media for exposing this elected official's true beliefs and agenda: he will blame a woman for being raped and becoming pregnant and he will force her to continue a pregnancy arising from a horrific crime.

My question: would you now vote for this man if he remains a candidate? It's one thing to be against abortion but another to twist the truth and try to make victims feel guilty and ashamed. This is on the path to what the Taliban does to women. The men have affairs and the woman gets stoned to death.