When is enough enough with narcissistic parents?

I found this site and when I read the posts. I find that I am not alone. My experience is so similar as others. my mother was never a person who hugged or kissed me. She never encouraged me. Now she keeps saying after all she has done for me I owe her. I help out for my father who was always good to me. The way I feel about her once dad is not with us I am DONE.

middle - You are definitely not alone. My dad who was my nurturing parent died years ago. Essentially I lost my family then, as my sister and mother, who both have personality disorders, always ganged up on me and my dad. My mother had said things like that too - that I owe her. You could be very wise to be done once your dad goes. If I had known what I was getting into, I think I would have cut out long ago.

Countrymouse, in my opinion it is partly a coping mechanism (she needs to be liked, she needs to be loved, she has a soft spot for the young) and partly it is copying her mother. It has happened to me; as I was the youngest child and had no younger siblings or cousins, I learned my parenting from my mother. My adult kids had to talk to me about it, but it helped that I had learned about NPD. Your SIL is sincere, but it is hard for the young people; if she is versed in NPD, you could talk to her and it might be a great thing; otherwise, talk to the young people who are the recipients of these compliments.

I have learned to keep conversation to a minimum: yes, uh-huh, isn't that nice, oh good for you...Inside I feel like I am hurting her by being so distant, but if I try to get close to her she tears me up with her remarks, sarcasm, manipulative crap, and F.O.G horns (fear, obligation, guilt). I have to remember my mother is gone and will never return. What little times we had that were close are sadly over, as her mind swells with her own fears and concerns and tries to fight the end of her life with me as her target.

Judda: I admire your ability to have any kind of relationship that works with your mother. I am too angry every time I hear from my mother. My brother who has been under psychiatric care for over 30 years and is married to a woman with BPD copes so well with the help of huge doses of anti-psychotic meds. It's great that we are able to share together with others who understand.
Blessings from bunny

Judda and Bunny, I'm sending you both hugs. I'm in the same position. I'm so tired of this situation; it's either a rage with accusations, lies, and put downs or a drama where mother is neglected and nobody cares about her. One day she tells me she wishes to die and the next she asks me to buy her make up items. One day she remarks that it's a daughter's duty to take care of her mother when old, but when I remind her that my husband and I have offered her this, she says she'd rather be in a nursing home and be in her own country (unlike the traitor me who left) so that her beloved son (narc golden child) could go visit her even once a month! I'm so ready not to feel guilty!

Hi everyone. Been gone for a while. I did read over the posts, and one thing I'd like to say is that this is an extremely supportive group of people. The "anonymous" posts seemed to be an attempt to veer us off track and right back to the deep guilt feelings we all know so well. I'd like to suggest when someone posts something of that nature we simply ignore it. It's easy to react, but trolls thrive on reaction. If "anonymous" does have issues similar to ours, she/he will come back, apologize for the judgmental nature of the initial postings.

It's been 5 weeks since I confronted Darling Mother, and, for someone who "worries" about me all the time (can anyone say 'make Sanjay feel guilty because mommy worries) there has been (blissfully) no contact from either her or the golden boy.

One thing I'm discovering in therapy is that this had more of an effect on me than I realized. I'm suddenly having memories out the wazoo. As I was going over the history of my life with my therapist, it occurred to me that I have no memory of my life from 9th grade until I quit college. Dad was abusive too, and no doubt that contributes.

I'm not a mom, so here's what I'm wondering. Isn't protecting the cubs the most natural thing for a mother to do? To stand up for her children against all else, even her husband? To flee when things become unbearable for her kids, to wrap them in her arms for comfort and assurance?

Years ago my younger brother (also tossed away by Dear Mama) told me that my dad hit me in the nose, causing it to bleed for hours. I don't recall that, but the time frame that little bro mentioned concurred with the time frame of my "going away." Little bro told me that Dear Mama knew about this, but would do nothing because "it didn't involve her."

In many ways I feel cheated. I feel cheated of the affection I deserved. I feel cheated of the protection I didn't have. I feel cheated of a family life that is not so dysfunctional that it should be a reality TV show.

I'm exploring myself in therapy and out of it. My therapist is slow to make suggestions, which is fantastic in more ways than one. This week I told him that I feel guilty because it's been 5 weeks since I have seen the egg donor. And I feel guilty that I think about her in that way, that she was nothing more in my life.

But why? It makes no sense that I feel guilty about ditching a woman who disappointed me my whole life. Who criticized, stood by when her children were physically and emotionally abused, who right up to the time I said good bye told me I was stupid, and, in essence, I don't count. While I'm working through things, I need to vent, and to someone besides my therapist.

Someone said that we don't have to live with the guilt. That we can just wipe it away. Oh I wish it was that easy. Sunday is the anniversary of my dad's death, and I feel guilty that I won't be there to be with her. Of course the golden boy and his wife are just around the corner and I'm sure they are overcompensating my absence, so she's not going to be alone. But still I feel this guilt. And then I feel guilty for feeling guilty lol.

Rena, I'm with you - I'm so ready to not feel guilty. Your mother sounds a lot like mine. Interesting though that she choose to be where the golden boy lives, so that she can give me grief about not visiting her often. Hand on the head, oh woe is me type whining. Now that I think about it - she is just like her mother (who she swore she'd never be like.) God spare me! Hopefully it skips every other generation!

So I'm trying to reclaim (or claim) my life. I'm trying to learn who I am, what I believe, what my values are. My therapist told me that's usually what teenagers do and since I missed my teenage years and someone else within took over, I'm going to be teenage like in my discoveries (in part.) I never felt free to be my own person, develop my own opinions, establish my own belief system, decide my own values. How sad is that for someone who's 58 and lived on her own for 36 years?

As much as moving on is where I want to be, I'm afraid I'm not there yet.

Sanjay, today I read a quotation from a young lady who died last month aged only 12; and she said: "maybe it's not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story." It really pulled me up short. I wonder if sometimes we're so focused on reaching our imagined goal that we don't pay enough attention to what's happening in the meanwhile, while we're on our way.

So, I suppose I'm trying to say, don't be afraid that you haven't completed your - journey? Recovery? Escape? Unilateral Declaration of Independence?! - well, don't regret that you're not there yet. The important thing is that you are in the process of making change happen. A bit like gardening, I suppose. You're not meant ever actually to finish it.

I think another thing that I, and I know other people too who watch NPD-infected relationships from behind glass, find hard to understand is why anger isn't a more frequently used weapon. You talk about your guilt at not being with your mother on the anniversary of your father's death. Ok. But so why aren't you angry - absolutely feckin' livid, in fact - that circumstances not of your making prevent you from marking your father's passing as you would choose to?

Now, I get that anger doesn't seem to be your friend, or that of many NPD survivors; but my goodness on this side of the glass we do feel it for you.

Thank you to Emjo and Rena for kind words about Lovely SIL. I really am worried about her at the moment, having rung her to see how she is. She's been signed off work for 6 weeks, having auditory hallucinations. She's been ill since 1986 - a spectacular psychotic episode involving a 150 mile journey at 70mph all the way while she continually tried to exit the car, which I'm sure is branded on my ex's memory - but managing well with medication for many years. What's combining at the moment is MIL's borderline dementia (and adamant refusal to undergo assessment, of course), insane stress at work and the imminent arrival of mini-Narc SIL for a month's visit. I haven't pointed the problematic conjunction out to her because the idea that MIL and SIL are anything but a joy and a pleasure goes down very badly and makes her even more stressed, so I'm only allowed to sympathise about the work stress. Except that the obvious thing to do about that, is to seek a less pressurised position (she leads a large service for adults with learning disabilities, and is being asked to double her team's workload and halve its number of people: a policy almost designed to drive them all to drink or nervous breakdown), which of course I can't suggest because it might lead her by the short route to full-time caregiving responsibility for MIL.

So. When enough is definitely enough of a narcissistic parent and all her works, how does one start to extricate the scapegoat?

Sanjay, you are in NO MEANS guilty for referring to that cow as an egg donor. She tore up her mommy card by refusing to protect you. Of course, this is what is so glaring about these so called mothers. Grizzlies will tear apart anything they deem a threat. These cows will actually serve their own children up on platters for whatever reason: they are legion. And they have the unmitigated gall to delude themselves that 'I'm a gooood mooommy' because (x,yx). And society also automatically labels any cow a 'mother' just because she has a kid. Never mind the quality of said cow. And to add insult to injury, they will invariably side with cow, ascribing worshipful goddesshood "but she's your mothhhuuuuurrrr". So, do NOT feel guilt about labeling her with less than noble names, attributes. You can only do this one day at a time. As one who likes to revel in angry feelings, that is not a good answer nor a good coping mechanism ultimately. You have to choose to say that this guilt is an illegal interloper and send it out the door. Go away, I have a better feeling to entertain, that I MATTER. Hang in there, do not let this woman try to drag you back in in any way, shape, or form. Some things are unforgiveable. Well, maybe forgiveable, but this does not mean we have to engage it.
Best of all Sanjay...

two cents ¢¢

about the journey, google an essay entitled 'The Station'.
I highly recommend the read.

two cents ¢¢

Maybe enough is enough when you feel the top of your own head blow off in uncontrollable emotional pain from the abusiveness. That did it for me! I love them but I'm fighting for my life now, I can't listen to the passive aggressive manipulative kindness before the accusations and insults. That's when the top of my head blew off and there was nothing left except full awareness of what's wrong with them I can't fix, I didn't cause it, for me to subject myself to it without proper armor is a death sentence for me. Good luck on your journey! We all reach our own bottom.

I am learning from my counselor that Narcs, BPDs are emotionally handicapped, but instead of us seeing a missing leg we FEEL a missing nurturing quality from our mothers. Honestly, my mother has been mentally ill like this her whole life and nobody has challenged her on it. She beat us for no reason and never said she was sorry and never will even acknowledge that she did it. Never did and never will.
The hard part for me: I can't quite swallow to let her off the hook. I have not forgiven her yet. I get furious just thinking about it. I hate that she "got away with it" while she berates her dutiful daughter constantly (in the past and now). How can I give her forgiveness or love or understanding? I am a stone around her, and am very happy when I am not with her. That's where my soul is stalled.

juddabuddhaboo, I'm so sorry you had to grow up that way, I got the same treatment beatings from my mother. She did this out of her own frustration I believe due to my dads drinking. The only attention I learned I could get was to create my own negative attention. Helps to know your history. I move in and out of either anger resentment, sadness grief, and forgiveness at times. I do best the less I have to do with them I've learned this the hard way. I don't feel guilty all the time, I wasn't born to be their savior. I'm no longer available for the passive aggressive manipulative bull crap. When my mother looked at me and said she knew the reason God gave me to her was because she was going to need me to do all I've done for her, the selfish self righteous you've got to be kidding me LIGHT WENT ON IN MY HEAD! Granted she's not all with it, but its always been about them. As long as you feel you've done and taken all you can and are satisfied with what you've done, it's YOUR TIME. Take care of your needs, you don't have to forgive her if you don't want to that's no ones business but yours. I'm a Christ Follower and I am not perfect I can't print what I've thought at times it's just between God and Me. I have felt that during the times I've found the grace, I tell myself if she and my father could have done better and I know this in my heart to be true they would have, they just couldn't. That softens the pain because the forgiveness is for me they will have to live with their own shame I refuse to carry it any longer. Bless you on your journey!

Sanjay, I'm having a bad day too in terms of unwanted ...guilt. I was feeling so good the other day! I think I still have a long way to go to be well. I am in a similar position: as Countrymouse wrote you're not dealing with the anniversary of your father's death the way you might have wanted to and this is due to circumstances out of your control. My mother today told me that she's very unhappy (and was crying) because my husband, after 40 years of abuse doesn't want to see her. I felt so guilty I was about to ask my husband to reconsider. Thankfully 2 of my adult kids were at home and they helped me see clearly. The way my mother behaved was dismissive and she let me know clearly that she doesn't care at all about my husband or me or what havoc her behavior is causing, but what will her friends think, if this gets out. This is the mother that has told me (when my first child turned 35!) that she regrets my marriage! and so many other nice things. It's funny how your mother like mine chose to live near her golden son! I decided with the help of my children to not even tell my husband about today's incident. I don't want him to feel guilty or to feel that he's not doing something that I'd like him to do. Albert Einstein once gave his definition for insanity: you do the same thing over and over and each time you're expecting a different outcome! Then I must be insane! When mother asked why is it that my husband stopped talking to her, I tried as politely as possible and with utmost respect to give a few examples: like two months after my mother-in-law died at the age of 72, my mother came to stay with us, as usual, for 6 months. On the first weekend of her visit, my husband offered to take her and our family to a restaurant by the sea because my mother likes the sea. She managed to tell him he was not a good son and didn't take good care of his mother! My husband is an only child and he had amazing, sweet, loving parents. His relationship with them was the most loving and caring. This was one example. I gave my mother two more. She denied that she has said these things! What surprise! She had a mini rage! I'm proud of myself for not raising my voice. She's 94 and, if she's telling the truth, she's having issues with her blood pressure. So I only said perhaps it's best to not talk about unpleasant things right now and maybe a solution will come in the future. I felt so guilty and I cried a lot. Then when I replayed in my mind the phone conversation, I realized she tricked me as usual. Now I'm angry! Finally!
Countrymouse, I'm so sorry to hear about your SIL. Poor thing! I'm so happy to have this blog. A huge hug to all

My mother isn't like this because she's elderly, she's always been like this. But it's gotten worse as she's gotten older and more dependent. I used to be able to get some distance from it, when she could live on her own, drive and have a social life. Now there's no escape. She always played favorites (still does), pitted one child against another, and really mangled family relationships and relationships between the children. We are not close. But now that she's elderly we're supposed to work together to help her. That ain't happening. It's become a horrible, painful situation.

Linda: Oh boy, I have a lot of stories like that. (regarding your daughter meeting her husband, etc.) My daughter likes having a relationship with her grandmother, but she caught on to her behavior, all on her own.

The years my daughter was in middle and high school, when my mother asked about what my daughter was doing in school, she would make comparisons to herself or my sister. There was a lot of: "I remember when your sister did that!" My daughter was good in a subject, well, mom was good in the same subject! (well so was I!) My daughter took a couple of years of a language, well, mom did too! (well so did I!) My daughter has a lot of creative talents and using them in college, well, she must've gotten that from mom, who did those creative things in elementary school. (75 years ago!) My mother has never, ever made a reference to me, since I'm my daughter's mother, what I was good at, what my daughter must've gotten from me. The references have always been herself and my sister.

Rena, so good that you're able to let the kids help you get past your trained reaction and think thru this clearly. About the blood pressure....My Gma died from a stroke so I grew up with Dads fear that if Mom got too upset, she would also. So, every time Mom didn't like a conversation, she had a splitting headache, Dad would tell us to do what she wanted and not upset her. Fast forward...last fall, my mom was pissy because my husbands illness meant I wasn't taking her places on weekends. I was asking her on the phone why she had been so rude and curt with me when what I actually needed was some support and caring. She started sounding funny and I flipped out. I called the AL and asked them to check her, that I was on my way. My first words to DH, thru tears, were, " Dad always said we'd give Mom a stroke and I just did!" You all can appreciate how even when you think you've got a handle on the guilt, there it is. Wasn't a stroke but a host of other issues but geez, I was so programmed that that was my first thought.

Goodness! Your mother is really very similar to mine! Thank you so much for your response.

Linda!!! What is this? - " She started sounding funny and I flipped out. I called the AL and asked them to check her, that I was on my way. My first words to DH, thru tears, were, " Dad always said we'd give Mom a stroke and I just did!" You all can appreciate how even when you think you've got a handle on the guilt, there it is."

Okay, can we just stop the tape right there. Here is an absolutely classic example. I'm sorry to sound as if I'm annoyed with you - I absolutely am not, as will become clear - but I've got smoke coming out of my ears, here. Because this is BOLLOCKS.

Deep breath. Phew.

Now then. You were on the phone VERY GENTLY explaining to your mother that given your husband's illness this might be a good time for her to show some concern for you, if not for him. Anyone think that anything is unreasonable, harsh, unfair about that? No. Of course not.

What happens next is that your mother, faced with your temerity in putting a perfectly reasonable suggestion to her, actually gets ill at the mere thought of it. The mere scintilla of doubt as to whether the universe in fact revolves around her makes her physically ill.

And this is YOUR fault???

No it bloody isn't!

I really do wonder if swapping mothers might help. The programming is just awful. I'm not in favour of delivering short, sharp shocks to very elderly ladies, no matter how appalling their attitudes or behaviour; but as they become more dependent on others the fact is that they will be living in the real world whether they like it or not, and it will be to their benefit to adjust gradually to that. Objectivity is needed, that's what I'm getting at. So how do you lay your hands on objectivity if your mother has handcuffed you?

Have you tried this, would it help? - in a situation like this, jot down notes about it and imagine that somebody else is recounting the story to you. Would you see it differently?

Countrymouse, you're so right! There is no objectivity. We're programmed to feel responsible for everything that happens, especially everything that happens to mother. Yesterday, my son said something that 'woke me up': he said when it comes to my mother, I am like a marionette! She pulls the strings and I dance. How sad!
My mother is very much like Linda's. If she doesn't get the attention she wants, she gets ...sick. Right now, as I'm preparing to go visit her in small dosages and I have put some vacation time with my husband in between the short visits, my mother is "thinking". I can see her game: she's trying to make me push/beg my husband to talk to her. Yesterday she was convinced that this is about to happen! She even congratulated herself by telling me how she was told when she was younger that she has "an amazing way to reach out to others and communicate"!!! Of course, she is wrong. She misread my politeness. I'm not even informing my DH who is NC with her for 2 years about this. So, I kind of have this dread feeling that once my mother sees that her plan didn't work, she will get sick so that my vacation will be ruined! What will I do, if I'm vacationing in an island and I get a phone call that mother is dying and she's in the hospital?

Four years ago, before I knew about NPD, I got a phone call by my narc brother (golden child) that mother is in the hospital and "I don't know what to advise you to do, but if you want to see her before she dies, you should come". I did go! A terrible trip from California to Athens that cost me thousands and, of course, I was crying all the way there. I found mother at the hospital surrounded by nurses and visitors and arguing with the doctor. I know now what happened: it was Easter time and Easter is even more important than Christmas in my country of origin. N Brother and family made plans to go on vacation for a week, leaving mother with her 24/7 home care and lots of relatives and friends. Mother got angry. To punish brother she got sick and went to the hospital. She had stomach complains that caused chest pain and of course, when a doctor sees a 90 year old with chest pains and demanding to be admitted, they do admit her to the hospital for observation. My N brother didn't know what to do! So he pulled this trick on me!!! and brought me from the opposite side of the globe to babysit mom and make her Easter more palatable. Mother stayed in the hospital for 2 days, had many tests, they didn't find anything wrong. Brother and family went on vacation! Mission accomplished.
I know all this now and still, my first reaction will be to believe her if she says she's unwell. I need to write down an action plan and have it ready in case I get "the phone call". I need to remember that both my husband and myself aren't in great health and we do need a few days of vacation. I must not allow mother to ruin it for us again. As I'm writing this down - your advise is excellent! - I see that if this had happened to someone else, my views would be different. It helps writing things down and imagining "that somebody else is recounting the story to you". Thank you. And hugs.

'"an amazing way to reach out to others and communicate"!!!' - I suspect that "amazing" is the operative word, there. You're amazed at the way she chooses to do that!

Back to your post now...

Rena, I'd love to think it would help but I wouldn't expect miracles! Hugs back.

But oooooooh! That was a sneaky trick your brother pulled, eh? Ooo these people! I remember when mini-Narc SIL was over for one of her family visits/royal progresses years back: I worked from home, had three kids, it was the school holidays, and she wheedled on the 'phone about how her little boy "longed to see his cousins." So they arrive. SIL and her husband then act like it had all been arranged, and they were off to town to have lunch and go shopping...

Now, even when you're VERY angry, it takes a hard heart to disappoint a four year old who's been told he's going to spend the day with his auntie and his older cousins. I patted him on the head, then backed his father into the kitchen and told him between clenched teeth what I would do to his gonads if this EVER happened again. It didn't; but I still feel annoyed with myself that I didn't think to have my kids dressed up ready to go to town for lunch with their auntie and uncle and little cousin instead...

Moral: whenever they're planning something, think what they're proposing through to the end. You've got to get your retaliation in first!

Rena, just thinking about this persistent belief that everything mother does is forgivable, and that therefore your husband must eventually relent and agree to resume friendly relations with her. On account of she's so cute and he knows she didn't really mean it and it's all a misunderstanding and all that…

Hm. I was talking about this broad area with my daughter the other day. Just suppose, what if, the scales WERE to fall from an NPD's eyes? What would happen if in some terrifying moment of clarity they saw things from the normal, rational point of view?

Torment, no? It would be devastating, surely.

What does she want to talk to your husband about? Does she just want the triumph of "ha! I knew my charm would win him over eventually" or is there something she actually wants to say?

I'm just mulling over whether it's worth trying to resolve this, especially if it's still in some ways giving you grief because of her going on about it.

Ok without reading all the posts and I have just a ugly two weeks. Sanjay welcome back! I am just writing a quick note as off to do yard work at sons house as he left for Alaska. Saw my councilor this week - she thinks my daughter is boarderline - so that makes me sorounded by NPD & bpd with mother, brother and daughter. She recommended that I treat all as 2 year olds - and with the nasty comments from my daughter response that is most effective - oh, so you think I am the worst grandmother ever, ok well I need to go - love you. She said that all of these disorders feed off pulling us in and they are so competitive and have to win. If we don't play...eventually they stop. She shared that her mother is also a NPD and why she became a councilor. She now has a fairly normal relationship with her as she did things like that , left and didn't go back for a while - without guilt. She had at one time said to me - should I expect my children to do the things my mother expects...no of course not! So loose the guilt and we are worthy and lovable and and deserving of loving people! Just my thoughts for the day...we will get through this and thankfully for all of you - I no longer feel like I am on the island of disfuntional! Have a fabulous day!

Countrymouse, what an awful thing for your SIL to do! This is how they act. Disrespectful, demanding, uncaring. This is what's happening in my family: NM and NB were always fighting epic fights ever since he was a teen; nevertheless, NB is also programmed to please mother at all costs. He is now having personal problems and he's less of a narc supply for her; as for his family, they are all NC with mother! Mother never cared about my DH and she treated him poorly. He was patient for my sake, but he's now totally done with her. The reasons she wants him back are 1) what will the friends/neighbors say if he's not coming to visit her? 2) I now have an excuse to visit her less since our visits to my country of origin have always been our vacation and 3) because he is NC with her, she isn't invited to come vacation with us anymore (we spent every single vacation with her from 1976 to 2012!!!) Hugs.

sad1daughter, what an uplifting and helpful post! Thank you so much. My thoughts are with you and I hope all will go well.

cm and rena - Yes, an action plan! My mother has spoiled many special occasions to get the attention back to her. It took me a while till I realised what was happening. Once I was going to visit my oldest son, who I hadn't seen in 2 years, as he lived in another city. Mother got wind of this and called a cousin telling him that she was all alone and needed help and I wouldn't help her as I was going on vacation. My cousin called, prepared to give me a hard time, until he heard the truth. Mother had a 24/7 live in nanny that we had obtained for her. All alone and with no help??? Puh-lease!!!! I should have such "no help"!!!

However, it still had the desired effect, as by the time I was through dealing with the upsets this caused, I was too tired to go. After I cottoned on to what she was doing, it took me a while to figure out how to deal with it, and I am still working on that.

One thing which is important is to not let them know what you are doing, that you are going on holiday or whatever, and don't let the golden child or anyone who will tattle know. It is a weird way to live. I have to keep information from my mother, and also from my sister (golden child) and from my niece (her daughter). Last summer, G and I holidayed to the Yukon. I didn't tell them, but made the mistake of posting some pics on face book which my niece saw and told sis, who I refuse to befriend on fb as she only uses what info she gets against me. Sis will always tell mother my business and will put a slant on it - like when I was young I told sis that a the guy kissed me. Sis translated that to mother that I was pregnant. Yes, that actually happened.. Triangulation is a big thing in our family. Yuck!

Anyway, when mother found out I was on holiday, she took a large amount of cash out of the bank and tried to fly east without proper ID. This caused quite a ruckus and she ended up in hospital (the airport staff handled it well). On the way home from holiday, I got frantic phone calls that mother was in hospital, sarcastic comments like "Was I or was I not POA and what was I going to do for the beloved grandmother" etc. It took up the rest of my summer meeting with hospital staff, ALF staff, and doing what I could to settle mother back down into her apartment and she was the centre of attention which was what she wanted. My sis went to Australia in the fall and mother sent out cards saying her liver was shot and she didn't have long to live. Not true, and another example of my sis passing on info to my mother and exaggerating it. A doc had said to me that mother's liver was not great, so I included that in one of the family updates. Big mistake. People live for years on much less liver function than mother has. But, it is the only one of her organs that doesn't test out perfectly normal except her brain! However, sis passed it on to mother, though I asked her not to, and mother used it.

With mother in hospital now, I have kept very quiet and told few people as that is mother's wishes. Sis found out by calling someone who has helped mother in the past. Sarcastic comments at me again, but the SW said she would be the go between, which takes the pressure off me. She has told sis that mother wants no contact. I am waiting for the fall out. It is like negotiating a mine field.

I told none of them that G and I were going to Florida in April, and sis was out of contact with mother at that point, and it was great - no crises. They do not know that G and I are moving towards marriage and will not know until afterwards. That means excluding cousins as I can't tell them and add the rider not to tell my sis. You do what you have to do.

rena - have your holiday no matter what happens. Do not do anything that will reinforce your mum's or bro's attention seeking behaviour. I wish I had learned this sooner. My daughter got that one very early and mother never played those games with her. Detach, detach, detach!!! Frankly, if mother dies before I see her again, I would be fine with that. These days there is such dysfunction and with a narcissist you cannot have a normal relationship. They use you for their "narcissistic supply" . Google that and you will see that you are being used, and if you are not available they will find someone else. All relationships with a narcissist are exploitive.

"The narcissist is a master at extracting the pulp and juice of others-their time, talent, creative ideas, energies-to serve his purpose alone...All relationships with narcissistic individuals are exploitive..." (From: Freeing Yourself from the Narcissist in Your Life by Linda Martinez-Lewi, PhD.

Free yourself. I know it takes work, and part of that is understanding what narcissism is and how narcissists work. Part of it is learning how to protect yourself and what measures to take. Part of it is accepting that your family members are not normal and grieving that. Acceptance is key.

Praying for you to have a good break with your hubby and no interruptions, or if the interruptions come you deal well with them. Look after you!!!

sad - we cross posted. I am not surprised to hear about your daughter. I am surrounded too - mother, sister and daughter. I did the NC with my daughter last fall, after finally facing her with some of her dysfunctions which were just plain rudeness. Things are better now and we have contact. Not sure it will last, but I will not take guff any longer. I did NC with mother years ago and it helped for a while, but she relapsed. I did NC this winter after the sis and mother crisis. Mother is a hard case and changes have not happened even when I draw very firm boundaries. She just gets more dysfunctional. But think it has uncovered her illness more and now we have dementia mixed in too. Thankfully she is in hospital, has been diagnosed, and is under the care of professionals.

Yes, we will get through this.

rena -re what will the neighbours think. lol That seems to be a driving force. I am glad your husband has gone NC. He is protecting himself and you too.

cm -your sil is a narc. That was a dreadful thing to do - so thoughtless - just using.

1976-2012? 1976-2012??? 1976-2012..!!!???

Oh Rena Lord love us and save us!!! - I think he's done his bit, don't you?!

Emjo I think of this SIL as mini-Narc because, for whatever reason, she's not quite as hermetically sealed-off from reality as MIL. If MIL is crossed, she goes nuclear; mini-Narc SIL just sulks. Or cries. Or mutters and "rhubarbs"… But ANYWAY she doesn't do the Wrath of God thing. Or not yet anyway - maybe MIL will leave her that right in her will :)

Countrymouse, indeed he has. Hugs