Quarterly update: narcissist miserable anxious mother with no permanent home by choice continues insanity.
sum: seen her 10x in 20 years. She left my father. She traveled world for 15 years in fancy places but on budget through demands. She is now 77. 100k in bank. We fund 35k. Social security 10k. 2-5 emails a day for this year with:
”are you going to let me die”
“if you think I am going to get on with my life you are in a fantasyland.”
”I’m not going to make it.”
”You want to buy me a house and you expect me to live alone?”
”the prices of houses have doubled - even if you are paying for it; now I have less money from you.”
”I don’t want you to buy me a house.”
”nobody does this alone.”
now, for the past year, rabbis, psychiatrists, my stepmother of all people and us have tried to come up
with solutions.
now she is begging us to “make a deal” that she can come to see us for 2 weeks and just get some love. We held our ground and said no. She said, let me come and then you can decide whether to buy me a house in California or put me in a home.
for background, she did not sacrifice for me. She divorced my father when I was 13, he raised me. She never paid a nickel for college or bought me anything. She was never there emotionally. Ever. She sent one email from 2014 where she showed that I thanked her for her ideas about a mosquito
problem. Her problems are worse, but she ignores my ocd saying it isn’t her fault. I recently had an incident where I lost feeling in my leg and my husband told her and she can’t see it. Even people with cancer have it better than her because they have family. My mil can’t walk, but she has a house. When we offer her a house, she says it’s different because my mil has been in her house. I know it is insane and I should just stop reading the emails. My husband has taken over and she bombards him. He’s ready to cut ties completely but we still want to monitor where she is and need to send her funds. There is still a nagging sadness that she isn’t welcomed by any family - but she was - she just abused everyone to a point of no contact by everyone. I’m not supposed to judge as I’m not g-d but it has deeply affected my family and it’s not ending.
A mantra is a nice place to start, but the damage that has been done to you has taken decades. Therapy is going to last for longer than a couple of sessions.
AND from experience, if the therapist doesn't seem to "click" it may not be the right person.
Please explain why you see this situation as a moral dilemma.
While I believe that everyone should be treated humanely, I don’t feel that we have to personally care for someone that has harmed us emotionally or physically.
If caring for her is causing major grief then you should stop trying to help her.
Do you fear that she will become homeless? Is this what you are referring to by a moral dilemma?
My oldest brother was homeless for a time. It made me very sad to think about him being on the streets without food and shelter.
My brother overcame serious issues from his youth. He started his own business, was successful, had a wonderful woman in his life and so forth. Things were looking up.
He ended up making some really bad choices and lost everything! When he asked to move in with me, or requested money, I said no.
I wanted to help him at first. I bought him food. I listened to his concerns. Ultimately, he was in a downward spiral and every suggestion that I made to help him was declined by him.
So, I told him that I loved him but that I was going to walk away and I did. I didn’t see him again until I received a phone call from his friend saying that he was in hospice and was dying.
It’s okay to love your mom but despise the things that she has done. Don’t mix up ‘love’ with ‘moral dilemma.’ I loved my brother but I also loved myself and my husband and children. I couldn’t put him before any of us.
Am I immoral because I walked away from my brother? I don’t think that I am. It was his responsibility to turn things around, not mine.
My life would have been turned upside down had I continued to help him. I saw that it was futile to keep doing so.
This truly isn’t a moral dilemma with your mom.
((((Hugs))))
I don’t understand how you can be so cavalier about your financial situation. Your mother isn’t just draining your time and energy. She’s putting a huge dent in your financial future.
Unless you’re independently wealthy, the endless supply of money that you are doling out to her is continuing to add up and will have an impact on your family’s future.
You have a young son that still has to go through college. You or your husband could become ill and need money for serious health issues. We never know what the future will be.
You say that you can’t imagine the pain your mom must feel in not being loved by you, but you are inflicting it.
She absolutely needs therapy to do serious deconstruction from all of her mom’s brainwashing since early childhood.
Then her mom walked out when she was 13. This is a vulnerable age. She has had a lot to deal with. This situation is more complicated than we think.
I just responded back to your response to my post about you feeling as if this is a moral dilemma.
I see so much confusion in your words. Please seek therapy.
You need professional help to help you heal and also to reprogram your mind. A lot of deconstructing is going to have to take place before you will be able to see things for what they truly are.
It’s okay that you haven’t been able to figure things out on your own. There is absolutely no shame in needing extra help from time to time.
You have been dealing with this for a long time and you won’t heal overnight. Please commit to a substantial amount of time in therapy. Don’t go once or twice and feel like it isn’t working. It’s going to take several months before you start to get a grasp on the situation.
A good therapist will know how to approach this situation with sensitivity and understanding.
A person who has been through trauma is fragile.
You will be safe to speak openly and freely about whatever you feel with your therapist.
Best of luck to you.
Do you feel bound by that particular cultural tradition?
If you study religious/cultural traditions, you will find a commonality is that they arise from the particular historical and political situation a people find themselves in.
If you live in the US, your mother has a social safety net she can access. This applies in the EU as well.
You don't love your mother. So what? Not loving her isn't what is going to kill her. Her mental illness and HER ability not to love may possibly do that.
She doesn't sound very loveable to me.
Please find a therapist.
For one birthday I got her an upgraded diamond ring. Another a vacation in Bermuda then Hawaii, then London, etc. etc. She lives and thrives, I don't. No safety net.
My own experience was with the more common OCD types – eg is the stove really turned off??? Your mother’s lifelong dissatisfaction with where to live and who to live with, could be another unusual type - and the Mayo Clinic’s useful web site suggests that repeated family history can occur..
I am genuinely concerned that all the nice people on this site may be reinforcing OCD that needs proper treatment. Please could you tell us your medical history in dealing with OCD – the name you chose for yourself. You need to cope better.
Even if the OP has been to a therapist in the past, she needs continuing care until this situation is resolved. I truly hope that she seeks help from a licensed professional.
Her past and current situation should be addressed. She needs to learn how to detach herself from her mother and move forward in her own life.
[Psychologists have found correlations between filial piety and lower socio-economic status, female gender, elders, minorities, and non-westernized cultures. Traditional filial piety beliefs have been connected with positive outcomes for the community and society, care for elder family members, positive family relationships and solidarity. On the other side, it has also been related to an orientation to the past, resistance to cognitive change, superstition and fatalism; dogmatism, authoritarianism, and conformism, as well as a belief in the superiority of one's culture; and lack of active, critical and creative learning attitudes.[62] Ho connects the value of filial piety with authoritarian moralism and cognitive conservatism in Chinese patterns of socialization, basing himself on findings among subjects in Hong Kong and Taiwan. He defines authoritarian moralism as hierarchical authority ranking in family and institutions, as well as the pervasiveness of using moral precepts as criteria of measuring people. Cognitive moralism he derives from social psychologist Anthony Greenwald, and means a "disposition to preserve existing knowledge structures" and resistance to change. He concludes that filial piety appears to have a negative effect on psychological development, but at the same time, partly explains the high motivation of Chinese people to achieve academic results.[63]
In family counselling research, filial piety has been seen to help establish bonding with parents.[64] Ho argues that the value filial piety brings along an obligation to raise one's children in a moral way to prevent disgrace to the family.[65] However, filial piety has also been found to perpetuate dysfunctional family patterns such as child abuse: there may be both positive and negative psychological effects.[66] Francis Hsu made the argument that when taken to the level of the family at large, pro-family attitudes informed by filial piety can lead to nepotism, corruption and eventually are at tension with the good of the state as whole.]
You have enormous empathy for your mother even if she has been abusive towards you and your family.
You feel that you must be loyal and honor her. Therapy will help you to detach.
My wish for you is that you will be able to find equal compassion for yourself, your husband and your son.
It’s okay to feel sad that your mom is not emotionally stable enough to live a normal life. Don’t allow this fact to overshadow your own needs.
I have an annoying GP who reacts when Dr Google and I have made our own guesses about an ailment. His comment is “And where did you get YOUR medical degree from’. He could probably annoy you too.
How fast do you think you can turn around a lifetime of dysfunction?
The "mother" did the predictable--threatened to die and called in the flying monkeys.
The OP needs encouragement to keep on keeping on, not bashing.
OCD, how are you doing with detaching today?
Every sane parent wants their kid to excel more than them, ocd included.
Ocd, plan for giving YOUR child the best. If he doesn’t get into Lowell, but does at Serra or SI, wouldn’t you rather he had the best? Same with college.
You need a million bucks stashed at whatever inflation is minimum. More as si and Serra are about 45k a year.
The OP feels that therapy won’t do any good. She private messaged me once and said that even if she went to therapy it wouldn’t stop her mom from harassing her.
She doesn’t see how it would help if she changed her reaction to her mom’s harassment.
She claims that she doesn’t ‘love’ her mom but feels like it is a moral dilemma. She feels an obligation to take care of her mom.
She is resentful of her mom taking advantage of her. Nevertheless, she isn’t able to detach.
Her husband is involved because he is trying to please his wife. The stepmom has tried also. They have good intentions but they are only adding to the problem. The OP doesn’t see any of this clearly.
Some people will never allow their parents to become wards of the state, no matter how much misery they cause.
She won’t call the police or mental health professionals to intervene either. She is extremely loyal to her mom. She asked me if I was familiar with Chinese filial piety. She truly believes that she is responsible for her mother until her mother dies.
Of course, her mother has serious mental illness and doesn’t care about anyone else but herself. Maybe her mother’s mom treated her the same way. So, the cycle continues.
It’s similar to being in a cult. People don’t just walk away from cults. They need help to get out and help after they get out because they have become so dependent upon the cult.
Some people experience a similar situation with religion. They may not be happy in the religion they were raised in but they feel an obligation to remain in it.
Others feel like they can’t walk away from a bad marriage because they feel that they should remain married until their death.
No one should remain in any abusive situation but some people need lots of understanding and support to free themselves from it.
I don’t feel that she enjoys being in pain. She isn’t in the same category as a masochistic person who feels pleasure from their pain.
Certainly, some people feel sorry for themselves and they enjoy the attention they receive from complaining to others. They don’t seem to be happy unless they are miserable and love making others miserable along with them. I don’t think that is the case here.
She’s not looking for attention. She’s trying to express her feelings and looking for guidance.
Some of us are passionate about the importance of seeking professional help because we have benefited from it ourselves.
When I was dealing with issues while I was caring for my mother in my home, I certainly couldn’t see how I was creating some of my own problems. I became sick and tired of being sick and tired and sought therapy.
My therapist had an objective assessment of the situation and helped me to understand many aspects of my own behavior and of my mother’s situation. I am grateful for what I discovered in therapy.
The OP will have to decide what is the best way to resolve her issues with her mom. It will take time for her to figure it out. Maybe therapy will be the answer for her, maybe it won’t.
Regardless, I hope things will work out for her. Let’s hope that it won’t continue on this way and the only way that this situation ends is with her mom’s death.
Sadly, I know some people who have been in situations where they were never able to detach from their parents and it went on until the parent died which is truly sad.
I think you need to seek the help from a Family Lawyer - put it in his hands. He should send her a legal letter with specific instructions - you should find a nice senior living community for her in Florida - she'll meet people, social activities - and maybe she'll find some type of belonging with new friends - make a new family for herself. That's her option - take it or leave it. If not, then offer her nothing - that's the deal. No money, nothing going forward - step away. The lawyer should be the intermediary handling all details - not you - not your husband. Change your email address - same for your husband...why is he calling her each week? It's only leading her on - dangling a carrot - it's giving her false hope that maybe you'll give in and see her.
You can't have it both ways - you're trying to satisfy something by knowing where she is - and yet, keeping her away from you. It's clear that it's just not working, so something has to give. Get a lawyer involved - distance yourself - allow your husband the same - he must want a break from stepping in for you. If she continues harassing you, then the lawyer will advise next steps and do the work. End this drama situation already.
I also think an appointment with a cfa is in order for the same reason that wise doctors decide not to treat themselves.
Another possibility is calling APS in that area and reporting her as a vulnerable adult in need of care.
me find a place to live.” “ Because if you reject me and leave me alone suffering much day after day alone in the room and the temperature is dropping to minus Celsius and I’m facing a highway and I’m not coping at all.” She is still in the luxury place but I have no doubt she is falling apart. This is completely out of hand. I don’t think this thread can help me much more because you’ve told me what to do – call a therapist, call the police if she comes here although it might be too late by that point – call adult protective services in her area although that will not work because she will tell them she is fine and just wants to see family and not be alone. Now she is telling us to buy her a place across the hall from my dad who she divorced 35 years ago. This is going to be a really tough 10 days.
Thank you for your latest response to my post.
It’s interesting that your grandmother went through shock therapy and that your mother witnessed fighting between your grandparents.
Yet, your mother was still valedictorian. Something tells me that your mother was under a lot of pressure from your grandparents.
This news explains your situation in further detail. I’m sorry that your mom and grandparents went through such sadness in their lives.
Cycles often repeat themselves, which is terribly sad. My wish for you is that you can be the one to break the cycle now. You deserve to have peace and joy in your life with your husband and son.
I know that it hurts you to see that your mom is in despair. I am sure that she is truly frightened. She has depended upon having you as her lifeline for a very long time.
Do you really think that she would harm herself? She has threatened this many times to you. Has she ever made a suicide attempt in the past?
I hope this all works out for you and your family.
Do you have the number of the place? Can you call them and check up on her suffering?
So many folks here with NPD parents hear about their terrible lives. But if they sneak in to check, the parent is talking, laughing, socializing.
Perhaps you are projecting your own suffering as an abandoned 13 year old onto this situation. I believe your mom is playing you.
Here is St. Louis APS:
https://health.mo.gov/safety/abuse/adult-protective-services.php
If you moved her to your city and saw her a couple of times a week it still wouldn't be good enough.
Have you ever seen the movie The Blob? Your mother is the blob. She consumes and devours anything in her path. Rabbis and others have been devoured and left in shock and disbelief. Nothing is ever enough to feed her hungry soul. Nothing you do will ever be enough to feed this emptiness in her. If your mother could shape shift into you and take your place she would.
Why not have the police do a wellness check? What's she going to do stop calling and emailing because you did? Ironic even the police told you to get a restraining order against her.
Pretty accurate assessment though of this situation.
Please don’t mix up ‘love’ with ‘Chinese filial piety.’ They are separate issues.
I urge you to look up the definition of love. You will see that Chinese filial piety and love have different meanings.
Your mother has begged for more than love. You can feel badly for her if you wish to but then call the police and allow them to bring her to a mental institution for an evaluation.
My guess is that all of a sudden she would no longer be suicidal. What’s your guess?
A mental institution isn’t going to be luxury. Have you seen a state mental institution before? Not fancy!
What do you fear if she shows up? Do you fear that you will be forced to say "yes" to all of her requests?
In your life, have you been able to say "no" to others? Have you, for example, had sex with everyone who asked? Given money to everyone who stuck out their hand?
Do you say "no" to your child, your husband, your friends on a regular basis?
Think about what is different about this hold that your mom has over you.
I have wondered this exact thing myself. With all of her mom’s suicide threats, have we ever read that her mom went to the hospital or a mental institution for attempting to kill herself? Nope, not even once. It’s the story of little boy crying wolf.
The mom knows how to play a good game of emotional blackmail.
The OP feels indebted to her mom, due to her belief in Chinese filial piety.
Mom and daughter are in need of mental health care. The husband and son as well. I feel most sorry for the son having to witness all of this dysfunctional activity.
You said that she mentioned wanting to live across the hall from your father - maybe she should live near your father - would he be ok with that? It seems she's trying to reconcile relationships.
And one way to stop her from extorting more funds from you than what you're offering is - I think your husband needs to make a little fib when communicating with her. He should really lay it out there that (G-d forbid) you're both going thru major financial difficulties from whatever you want to say (ie a big loss from investments that were made, investment gone bad, job crisis situation, etc) - and that you both need to scale back and are worried for your own situation. And any time he speaks to her, he should tell her that he's worried about his own financial situation - and focus on that in conversation. I understand no one wants to create a lie like that, but it's out of survival, so she'll back off - if she knew that it's now hard to even commit to what you promised her financially to begin with, that amount may look a whole lot different now to her, given that she'd be lucky now to even get that. I think you need to say something drastic - or she'll continue trying to extort more.
And unless you're buying her a house so it's an investment for you, why wouldn't she just rent an apartment somewhere instead - one person doesn't need an entire house. That's too much. And even if she lived in California, it could be on the opposite end - southern calif - and least expensive city....or Arizona or other west coast states? It seems like no matter where she is, she bombards you with calls anyway if she doesn't get your attention.
Some mothers are just not meant to be mothers - they just don't have it in them. They're just limited. At this point, try not to take her personality to heart, or even seriously - totally detach yourself emotionally if you are able to and realize that she has major issues...it's what I try to do with my own toxic mother.
OP explained over and over she is able and willing to support mother financially, she is CFA, she knows what she is doing.
- a lot of financial investors who knew what they were doing got fooled with the current Crypto scam ...so, it happens
It isn’t about her financial status. It’s about allowing her mother to have control in her life.
What’s the old expression? Money doesn’t buy happiness. Yeah, that certainly applies in this situation.
No worries though, if she keeps giving away all of her money, she will soon find out what it is like to be free from her mom and poor!
She’s like the people who win a lottery and blow threw it all.
If a person will not accept the suggestion to seek help from a mental health professional, they can’t be helped. They feel as if they know best. Obviously, she doesn’t know best.
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/mothers-constant-misery-is-destructive-she-wont-live-anywhere-any-advice-476776.htm?orderby=recent&page=1�
All I had to do was read her initial post telling her story and a few responses to it to realize that it confirms just how delusional the OP is!
This is truly such a deeply seated issue that no amount of time that she spends reading a forum will help her.
She undoubtedly needs psychiatric help, as well as the rest of her family.
"Not one person on this feed told you that you should give her the love that she has been begging for"
Sorry, this woman does not know what love means. Love is a commitment. You marry and vow that you will love and honor the person you marry. You have a child, at least an 18 yr commitment, to love them and raise them to be good people. What does your Mom do...she leaves you and Dad to travel the world finding men to take care of her. She does not love any of them, she uses them. Like she is using you and your husband. Like she will do until she dies if u allow it. She cannot be satisfied and your driving yourself to a breakdown. She just wants and wants and expects someone to give it to her. Your it because she now is not attractive to men anymore. She has no money for these high end hotels. That is not your fault. This is how she chose to live. Seems to me you have done everything possible and she wants more. There is a time you need to say "NO MORE".
Now she wants to move across the Hall from your father and you seem to think thats OK. How about your Dad. Do u think he wants this crazy women leaving across from him. And you, you are so contradictory. You don't know if ur coming or going. There is no "honoring" this woman. I read one time that "honoring you Mother and Father" means the ones who have raised and sacrificed for you. That means they don't have to be a bio parent. My daughter owed her bio father nothing. He did nothing for her. Actually allowed her stepfather to adopt her. My DH was a father to her. He went thru all the ups, downs and joys. He is her Dad in every way.
Let the police do a well check. Let them call in APS. Let the State take over her care. I think you and your husband have done enough. You can't do anymore. She expects you to give and give without giving back in return. Do what you need to protect yourself. YOU ARE looking for love that is not there. No matter how much love u give, you will not get it back.