My 90 yr old dad flirts with a lady in his senior living residence. Staff/Director is demanding we pay an extra 'sitting' fee so he doesn't touch her or anyone inappropriately. They are threatening that if something happens, it is a felony and he could go to jail. We live in Oklahoma. Help! We can't afford to hire a sitter ($5000/mo) on top of his Senior Living care ($4500). When we said we may have to take him to another place, they said he might not be accepted since they have 'incident' reports on him. My dad is not aggressive, just friendly with some dementia. Seems like a shake down to me. Any advice would be helpful.
It may be the other party is incompetent, and cannot be deemed to consent, and someone has to explain to dad
If he is jut verbally "flirting", holding hands that's not enough to have a "sitter"
If he is wandering into someone's room, for example someone posted that a man is going into her mom's room at night, that behavior would not be acceptable.
You mention dementia. Is it possible that dad would be better in a Memory Care part of the facility, I am assuming that the Senior Living residence you are talking about is Assisted Living. If he is already in MC then the director could find a much better way to handle the situation. Redirecting him to another activity if the attention he is giving is unwanted.
Have you seen the "incident reports"? And were you informed each time an incident was recorded?
Your Dad just flirts and there's nothing wrong with a little flirting..
now if he's making unwanted advances, you'll have to let him know that the lady made a complaint and she doesn't want him flirting with her and he'll have to stop.
They would never prosecute a 90 yr old or send him to jail.
Also if they try to kick him out, stand your ground and ask to see complaints against your Dad and if there are some, talk to the one making it to make sure it was them.
Then tell them your Dad will not be moving and if they try to kick him out, you will take it to the News and it will make it bad looking for them.
They wouldn't want the bad publicity and they really don't have the authority to just kick him out, he's paying to live there so they would probably have to go thru a lengthy court like trying to evict a non paying Tenant from your home.
They won't do it.
Just like not all facilities are created equal, nor are home care-giving situations always a paradise and people are all different too, police aren't always up to snuff with everything, including dementia. Have you not seen the various reports about Karen Garner? Not just arrested, but physically assaulted, hog-tied, left for hours IN JAIL with multiple injuries they caused and laughed about while the watched their own body camera recordings. There are many good police, but there are too many who should not be in this "profession."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_of_Karen_Garner
I say it is time to move dad somewhere else. He might need more services than this "senior living residence" provides. And you can always file a complaint after her is moved. Just remember to document document document.
Some people are naturally more touchy-feely than others (my dh is) and just that level of getting into someone's comfort zone can cause issues.
The big one....the director called saying a resident (my mom's friend) was found crying on a couch and he assumed it was me. I said he's lying or his staff was lying. He doesn't like me because I call every month to discuss the care my mother has not received (that I pay for).
I involved Corporate 3 times and got no where.
There are class action lawsuits against this corporation for billing problems, deliberately being short staffed, wrong meds. You can look it up. Don't believe EVERYTHING the director says.
Doesn't sound like staff considers your fathers actions harmless. But, apparently, they aren't providing any sensible measures to keep the two apart. Their concern that he could be "charged with a felony" sounds like an over-reaction...makes me think they are not the most competent or well-informed bunch. He will not be charged with anything.
Yes, you may be better off (and dad as well) by moving him elsewhere.
However, unless there is a serious assault, I would not be worried about a felony and jail time.
He needs to be aware of boundaries and stop the behavior, that is for certain.
The facility has guidelines and rules. Breaking the rules could cause him to be evicted. If things get out of hand, family members from whomever he is touching could file charges.
It is very serious, but I do not think felony is the case.
My dad started a sweet romance with a lady when both were in the independent living section of a facility. He was in his late 80s; she was similar in age. This was a mutual attraction and relationship. The romance continued when both had to move to the assisted living side of the facility. Unfortunately, the relationship was short-lived because the health of both deteriorated quickly. But it was sweet and brought late-life joy to both.
The key is whether the attraction is mutual. Consenting adults don't need a sitter. On the other hand, unwelcome advances could be a crime.
Is your dad on medication for his dementia?
Has any of the family members that live where your dad lives tried to sue, or is there proof of his behaviors?
People with dementia have a different brain set, and whole doe the split second it is explained to them they agree to stop, but in the next second they have totally forgotten what the conversation was about.
I would get in touch with an elder care attorney, speak with his doctor about the issues as well as an ombudsman with regards to the center he is currently living. We are living in a time that people are upset calling Pepe la pew a mother because he made advances on a unwilling subject. Back in the day of where your Dad's memory bank lives, his behavior was considered acceptable, but with his diminished mind he doesn't know what the new rules are and won't be able to learn them. While I can't say if he would be considered a felon, I do feel that the living facility is possibly putting the shakedown on you.
Your dad is no different than any other sexual predator under these circumstances and will be treated the same way. Attempting to sexually touch a female resident against her will is against the law. The problem is pinpointing when the behavior occurs, finding a reasonably priced sitter and tasking the nursing home with keeping them separated as much as possible.
Your dad should not be allowed to molest other residents and I find all these posts assuming he is innocent and leaping to his defense a little puzzling and dismissive of the rights of women who are residing in this home. Nursing homes are not now nor have they ever been staffed to eyeball residents 24 x 7. If a resident has a behavior problem, the nursing home has a right and a duty to get that behavior under control or ask the clients family to move him. I think your kidding yourself if you characterize his behavior as “flirting.” It’s more than that or they wouldn’t be asking you to pay for extra supervision. At minimum, your father is a nuisance who requires constant observation.
Imagine that your 80-something mother is the resident somebody else's 90 year old dad flirts with. And imagine that she has been very upset by this gentleman's friendliness, especially when he gets touchy feely about it. A member of the lunchtime staff privately explains to you that he pulled her chair out for her and guided her onto it as she sat down.
He thinks he's being gallant. She thinks he's the pest with a hundred paws.
And right now, in these interesting times, you bet a gentleman in front of the wrong jury could go to jail for being too friendly. Moreover, a facility that did not keep him under supervision could well find itself liable.
Two questions:
1. What have you seen of your father's friendliness-with-dementia? Try looking at it through eyes which are not fond, understanding and tolerant.
2. How able is your father to understand how his friendly flirtations are being received?
I'm not a big fan of getting litigation/lawyers involved, but you might ask a pro in this area if there is any legal recourse for the situation if the facility were to proceed with either course of action, and mention this to facility staff. A counter threat of legal action, even if it's an empty threat, may be enough to get them to back down from this position.
A few other observations:
1. I'm not sure whether one facility can legally provide "incident" reports to another. That might be a HIPAA breach. An Ombudsperson might have the answer to this question.
There also might be the issue of fraudulent, or "doctored up" creations of incidents to support their position. That would fall into a category of intent to deceive, perhaps just to get him out of that senior living.
2. Is this actually a medical facility, or one that falls more into the category of apartments/homes for rent, with nominal medical people on staff? If the latter, there are anti-discriminatory laws that might address their actions (although w/o citing all the laws, I believe they're more oriented toward racial discrimination, which makes me wonder if that's in play here???) Is your father black, Asian, or other race other than white? Maybe that's the issue.
2. Have you done any kind of search, online, or through a PI, on the history of this place? I found it a little difficult to believe that this kind of threat has been created and enacted only against your father. This may be a scam of greater proportions than anyone realizes.
3. How did you select this facility? Was it recommended by anyone in the medical field? I recall our first experience when one of the hospital discharge planners recommended various rehab facilities, one of which as I learned later has the reputation for accepting people in for rehab, but some of those folks don't come out alive.
Over the years, I heard this same observation from multiple sources. The next time the discharge planner casually included this place, I put her on the spot and asked if she was aware of the casualty rate. She was, but responded with some muttered explanation of the discharge planners having to follow hospital rules, kicking the responsibility higher up.
4. I would also contact a state ombudsperson to see what background information might be available on this place. Do you know how to search the state records to determine ownership and vested interests? If you do, cross check the names of the principals to see if they're involved in other facilities, then search online to see if you can find similar behavior.
Or is this place a franchise? When I was searching for home care for my father, I searched the state records and found that one company was a franchise, with some individuals holding franchises in different areas of the state.
If the company is an LLC, that's another story, with potential pressure exerted by members to maximize their investment contributions.
Ask these people who run the place what exactly do they provide for the $4500 a month per resident that they get. Part of the bill is supposed to be for security.
Now I've worked in elder care both in-home and in community assisted living for almost 25 years. I can tell you for a fact that no 'sitter' costs $5000 a month. They earn minimum wage. Never in this entire time have I ever heard of a facility trying to more than double the cost of residence because some old grandpa or grandma likes to flirt or is in a senior relationship with another resident. Most of the time the elderly residents had lived in a marriage with someone for pretty much their entire adult lives. Dementia or not when you've lived with a partner for 40 or 50 years and they're gone, a person will find a boyfriend or girlfriend regardless of their age or if they're living in an assisted community. These relationships are fine. They help the people who are in them too. Really, the only time it poses a problem is if one party isn't agreeable. Pretty much the same relationship rules apply for the elderly as do for younger people. If a resident has dementia and it's advanced to the point where they're aggressive and the other residents feel threatened, an assisted living community is no longer suitable for that person and they aren't supposed to let them stay. They belong in a nursing home or memory care facility at that point.
That $5000 a month for 'sitter' fees is a scam. The AL your dad is in is scamming families. For sure yours isn't the only family they've tried to work this hustle on.
If your state (Oklahoma) has an Ombudsman or any similar elderly protection service, I'd definitely bring this scam to their attention.
ASSAULT AND BATTERY - ELEMENTS
No person may be convicted of assault and battery unless the State has proved beyond a reasonable doubt each element of the crime. These elements are:
First, willful;
Second, unlawful;
Third, use of force or violence;
Fourth, upon another person.
_____________________________
Statutory Authority: 21 O.S. 2011, §§ 641, 642.
Committee Comments
Simple assault, simple battery, and simple assault and battery are misdemeanor crimes in Oklahoma. Oklahoma defines an assault in accordance with both of the common law definitions: an attempt to commit a battery, or the intentional placing of another in apprehension of receiving an immediate battery.
Simple battery is also defined in Oklahoma in accordance with the common law concept. It is an unlawful beating, or use of wrongful physical violence or constraint upon the person of another, without that person's consent. Minnix v. State, supra. See generally R. Perkins, Criminal Law 107-13 (2d ed. 1969).
Every battery, by definition, includes an assault, although an assault can be perpetrated without a battery. The Court of Criminal Appeals has held that, when an assault culminates in a battery, the offense is assault and battery, and prosecution should be commenced for that grade of assault and battery which is reasonably supported by the State's proof of the facts. Hall v. State, 1957 OK CR 34, 309 P.2d 1096.
Specific intent is not an element of simple assault, simple battery, or simple assault and battery. Hainta v. State, 1979 OK CR 61, 596 P.2d 906; Morris v. State, 1973 OK CR 421, 515 P.2d 266.
In Steele v. State, 1989 OK CR 48, ¶12, 778 P.2d 929, 931, the Court of Criminal Appeals held that only the slightest force or touching is necessary to constitute the force
required for battery.
This degree of force is reflected by the definition of force in OUJI-CR 4-28.
(2018 Supp.)
Since all four elements must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, if no force is involved, it cannot be proved.
Caveat: I am not an attorney. I am a retired Crime Analyst with 26 years experience writing search, seizure, and arrest affidavits for warrants.
You could Google Oklahoma Criminal Code for Touch Assault to see if in fact there is such a law.
I would also contact the State Agency that governs NH, SNF, AL and MC facilities to see if there have been other complaints against the facility for similar situations, i.e., threats of arrest.
Ask to see the incident reports,, and stand there until theyproduce them in front of you to keep them from manufacturing them.. A copy of those reports should be in his medical record and i would demand to review it.. If they dont produxe it on the spot,I would definitely move your LO from this facility. And report them to the agency that regulates the facilities.
Moving elders is a pain. But I think I’d go to battle with these jerks.
You are right. The family should not let this go. It sounds to me like a scam that will bring in a lot of money that no doubt will be divided among a very small circle of people.
For sure the Louise0717's family isn't the only one being hustled by this AL.
Don't hire a sitter. I would be looking for a different facility now. The director has no business suggesting your dad might not be accepted, Whether he's accepted or not is the new facilities decision.
This sounds like extortion to me and I would be moving my loved one without any documents from the current facility.