Hi all - I guess all I am looking for here is your opinion, and to help me see something I may be missing?
We have had FIL with us for 2 long years now (I know not as long as some of the troopers on this site), but long enough for me anyway... Hubby and myself do not get away often, but have decided we absolutely have to have a vacay, away, by ourselves. FIL is not mean like some I have read about, but is a narcissist, has PD and is a stroke patient. The last time we went out of town for a couple of days to visit MIL out of town (they are divorced), we vetted a wonderful AL care facility in our town. When I say vetted, I mean vetted... I went over there 4 different times, and even took him to visit and meet others prior to his stay. They matched him up with other residents who had similar interests, etc.
Afterwards, he tells hubby in private that next time he prefers to just stay home. Well, next time came, and I made hubby do all of the advanced meal prep. etc., that it took to try to be away for 2-3 days. I do the meds....
NOW, due to increased risk of falls, etc., and the length of time, he absolutely cannot stay home. We cannot prepare enough meals in advance for him, and it simply does not make sense.
So hubs was pushing and pushing me to find a place to vacay, book it, and make the plan. Well I have, and it is 23 days away. I told hubs over a week ago that he needed to talk with his Dad about respite care at AL, or at least the alternative would be qualified, vetted "at home care", via a couple hours a day, or meals, etc.
Well here I am... waiting... I asked hubs yesterday if he had talk to FIL, he said yes, Dad would "think" about it, and let hubs know what he wanted to do... WHAT THE H_____. I had begged him not to give him a choice in the 1st place, but he just can't bring himself to make his Dad do anything he does not want to do. SO here we are..... I asked yesterday if FIL had said anything one way or the other.... nope nothing.
I had pre-arranged for a home health professional to come to the house to meet with him, make an assessment, etc., just in case that's what he decided. That was this morning. I cancelled the appt., I don't think it is fair to waste her time coming here, when he won't even make a decision.
I am going to pledge to myself, that I am NOT going to ask about this again... I am sure hubs will not want to miss a vacation, but he needs to realize that care decisions cannot be made at the last minute, and people are not just waiting in the wings to be called. I cannot believe he is just sitting here waiting for the King to make a decision. I am at the point that I almost wish it to be too late for find care/facility openings when and if he "does" decide, and I can enjoy a vacay right by myself.
Is it just me????!!!!
I do hope you enjoy the vacation.
Do not feel guilty.
I bet as you continue to pack, and make a couple of calls while your husband is in the room, one to the news paper to put the paper on hold for 2 weeks, call a friend to some in and water the plants (cuz you know hubby will be busy caring for his Dad) Also get the mail on hold for the duration. Make all these arrangements just in case your Husband realizes you are really going to go with or without him. He just may realize how important this is to both of you.
if you want hubby on vacation with you, just call the AL you already liked, and be done with it. Executive decision made! Tell hubby “I’m doing what’s in the best interest of your dad- for his safety and health.”
Otherwise- bon voyage!!! Enjoy your well deserved vacation!
For the the life of me, I still cant understand why this is such an issue for hubby. I have laid it out there, I am ready and almost wishing to in in this vacay alone
Well, rocketjcat saved me some typing today!! Pretty much what I would have said. Rather than just leaving that final "word" you gave him (asking yet again for him to do something), you do need to say "here is my line in the sand": pick a place for your father, make the arrangements and take him there OR I go on vacation alone. End of subject. And then stick to it.
I did this with my kids, and explained it all to them. THIS is the line, cross it or do not, YOUR choice, but consider the consequences of that decision. Sometimes I have to do similar tactics with my mother when she has an appointment and starts whining she doesn't need/want to go.
I have seen so many people who make that line with their kids, and then like in the cartoons, keep drawing a new line, and another, and another. They then learn (you are teaching them!) to keep pushing, and it will get worse as kids get older (or brain functions decline in elders.)
ONE LINE. Hubs, do this, or I go alone. PERIOD. And STICK TO IT!
Also, I would go with the AL facility - add to hubs sand line that he has until X-DATE to make arrangements.
My next suggestion is not meant to offend you in any way but you need a break so go on your own.
Aisling
However, even if it were 8 hours, I would much prefer to go alone.... I need a break
Can you calmly tell your FIL that you and hubs need some marriage time and even though you know he hates it, he needs to go. If he gets pissy about being able to take care of himself, let him see how unreal that is, don't feed him or help in anyway. Let him explain if he is so able why you or hubs needs to do anything, you are leaving for a vacay and wanted to see for yourself how well he will do.
Narcissistic behavior just ticks me off.
while he has not been pronounced “unable”to stay alone, it is more of a practical matter. A day or so... ok we can pre-prepare food, but he can’t do any of that, let alone for long periods of time. Tripping and falling is always a concern. He knows good and well that he is better off at respite care while we are away, but honestly I don’t think he gives any consideration to what we may need.... this roommate situation is driving me nuts.... I am so resentful.
you are right in that I should not have to go along with half baked ideas.... you can’t piece meal enough stuff to go off for a week and really have any peace of mind and relaxation.
You do raise an interesting pound about the poa thing... again, has not been “told” he has to have full care, but it is common sense.... thank you for weighing in. Stay tuned
You are right, zero, nothing... zilch.... out of shear curiosity and hopes that I could underscore my point again, I did casually mention to hubs “what the final decision was”??? Surprise FIL has not even mentioned it again.... so I just said, well whatever you decide between the two options, but just be aware that things have changed a bit on both sides and you need to plan for that.... that was last week....
Here’s my biggest problem.... I am not willing to accept hubs half-ass plan at the last possible minute. Like you pointed out, some things never change. Hubs will be dumbfounded that I would even consider going without him, especially because this trip is for our anniversary and my birthday.... which is just another reason I can’t stand FIL and his self centered ways....
So I would be interested in your thoughts on how to proceed? I know what is coming..... nothing, nothing, nothing, then when it is time to go, hubs will start making prepared meals.... so stupid he a,ready afpgreed that is far from reasonable for 8 days!!!!!! I cannotbelieve the lengths he will go to in order to not upset his dad..... I guess it is OK for me to be upset. Seriously though, he will think I am making a big deal out of wanting to go alone just because he takes this path.... he will not get anything other than I should just be happy he is ha doing it! But that is not handling it....
You are right, not worth either of us getting sick over... I am indigestion almost every day and I know it is triggered by all of this.
Stay at tuned and thanks
my Prayer, to go alone.... thank you for responding,
Great advice ice and I am going to hope for th best. Honestly, I would rather go alone with all of this trouble we have gone through...
stay tuned
problem.... I am well past the ultimatum phase because frankly I don’t care enough to try to knock sense into them...
truly, the only issue I have now is how to handle hubs half-baked lame ass efforts when it is time to go. I am telling you, he will come up with some stupid inadequate “plan”, and then accuse me of being unreasonable because I don’t want to go along with whatever stupid idea he has that does not solve the problem and just bandaids it enough for him to not have to confront his dad and actually make a grown up decision.
i just wish he would get out of the way and let me go by myself
My husband is much as yours, non-confrontational, but otherwise a really good guy. My FIL, a true Narcissist, who so thourally enjoyed the fact that he "thought" that he was in control, but thankfully when push comes to shove, hubby was always in my corner, but I did not push that often, too much bother.
I would not allow Any of this Pussy Footing Around, not one day longer. Sit the 2 of them down, turn Off the TV, and tell them that: This is Your Anniversary and Birthday trip, that hubby Is going with you, as he was the one who suggested it, and got you excited for it. That FIL has been graciously allowed to live in your home for the past 2 years, and that you do not wish to worry about him being alone and falling or becoming ill while you are away, therefore he Is being booked into AL during this time, and at his expense so that he is safely being cared for, End Of, get used to it!
You need to be the bad guy here, FIL will get over it!, and tell him that you and your husband Deserve this time away to reconnect with each other, and work on your marriage, because if this marriage fails, the Cushy life as he knows it, will be No More. This topic is No Longer Up For Debate.
Then walk out of the room, begging packing yours and your husband's suitcases, and do not bring it up again, until its time to help pack up your FIL's suitcase, and then if he needs a reminder, do it then, but Do Not Back Down.
Do not engage in but, but, but type conversations! You know you are right in this, as he needs to be looked after, and to be safe, and you need a good vacation away from him for a while! You are POA after all, So Do It!
Let me start by saying what a saint you must be..... I CANNOT imagine living with FIL until his dying days.... even in the best of circumstances, the toll it would take on your marriage has to have been tremendous. I literally cannot go anywhere in my house that I don’t have to walk right past him..... I just couldn’t do it.
This thing has gotten me so beat down that it is hard to even care enough.... This is something hubs said he would take care of, and has failed miserably.... I am always the “fixer”, and really just don’t care enough...
because of Hubs expectional need to not “press” his dad, he is just sitting..... I want HIM to feel the heat here. I agree that the mature, direct, non-negotiable approach is the best.... here is what I have to consider, if I take that route, I bet hubs will undermine me if FIL is not happy about whatever decision is made and will “drill a hole”right in my boat about it.
So then I have a pissy FIL (don’t care) about that, but he would then know that hubs can “trump”me, then what do I do with, what I know would be complete outrage towards hubs?
Such a good man other than when dealing with FIL... how I wish I had never moved him in here.
BTW, during this vacation, I also suggest you think long & hard about being POA for FIL. This whole episode is just a small sampling of what you will face as FIL progresses in his disease. Will your husband support you or fight you with the hard decisions that have to be made?
I just don’t know anymore....
good question about the POA situation. This was done initially because FIL needed someone to take care of his financial affairs, settle real estate, etc. they are both happy to give this to me, however the rub would come in if I exercised that to actually do something that made FIL unhappy.... Hubs will do just about anything to keep his dad from being unhappy.... even sacrifice ours it seems.......
You pose a great question, and one I have pondered.... I fear that the first half of vacay would be getting over the “hangover” of the aftermath of getting there.... then a few good days, and then the return of dread when time to go home.
the tension is unbearable and I just don’t understand the avoiding apathetic behavior.... FIL just sitting here, not acknowledging that he has been asked about this, and hubs just drifting along, and giving me the cold shoulder I guess because I am not floating around on a cloud of smiles and giggles.
I think I need to see someone, I cannot get past this time resentment... it is eating me alive.
Thank you for taking the time to respond!
Your answer to Stacey says it all. I still think you should walk out the door with love and regrets. Have you ever been on vacation alone? Its glorious ...as soon as the sun soaks into your skin and the smell of the salt air hits your senses you will be transformed to the woman you used to know. Put your energies into researching your destination...take a yoga class...see that new movie....eat @ that restaurant Hubs would never go to.....read that book....get in touch with friends that have dropped off your radar since you have become a Caregiver...shop till you drop...get your hair done....so much to do!
You will meet people that you would never even notice if Hubs is with you....maybe even some folks with words of wisdom or better yet take your mind completely off of your home situation.
Let the guys "go it alone." I have a feeling they will be transformed as well without you! One can hope that alot of the dilemmas you now face will be in Hubs face literally. I think you'll come home to a different man with a new attitude and hopefully a renewed respect for you. Tough love them!
Actions speak louder than words....walk the talk girl ...wish i could go with you!
this situation has turned into a cluster of Biblical proportions and I do not even recognize my life...
i need soul searching time, I really don’t even know if I want to continue on in this marriage... funny how this trip was for our 30th anniversary and my birthday....
I struggle so much with “justifying”how I feel.... am I normal, others have it worse... and am I hating on my FIL more than necessary because of unresolved childhood hurts???????? On and on...... hubs has even told me that he thinks “I” have a chemical imbalance because no one should be this unhappy with such an innocent, non trouble making in law.... never mind all of the sh*t that comes along with this.....
Oh God, I just want to RUN far away..... maybe I need to see a counselor, I really really need to know if it is just me or would anyone feel this way?
I would blow his hair back and then take a tranquilizer 😊
If he wasn't a dutiful little boy with his daddy he would be able to understand how very imposing a grown man with special needs truly is.
Have you and hubs talked about how long this situation is supposed to last or does he assume status quo until someone drops dead? Was this the original agreement? Does he know that you are at the end of your rope with not having a life because he has placed more value on his dad than his own wife and marriage? I feel angry on your behalf, chemical imbalance, indeed!
Maybe, he doesn't want to be married anymore and he's not got enough backbone to speak up? That would, unfortunately, be what I thought.
Best luck sidelined, HUGS!
OK, first your response gave me a good laugh, which I needed! Especially with the “blow his hair back part”! LOL. I could really envision doing just that.... I have fantasized about looking like a crazy person, walking into the family room (blocking the tv of course) and just go crazy on their asses....
it is so hard trying to analyze whether my thoughts/feelings are indeed an indication of something maybe unresolved with me, or are totally valid. I think your feedback regarding how you would feel if hubs suggested a chemical imbalance pretty much tells me that I am not the only one who finds offense in this.
Also, yes, we have talked about this many many many times.... planning, well now, let’s not go crazy....
when FIL lost his 3rd wife, we moved him back here, where he is from, in with us of course. His mind is almost 100%, but his physical limitations are the real issue. We are trying to get his real estate sold so that it can be invested and help bridge the huge gap that is going to be there when he has to go to a home. That is the plan, and hubs can keep looking for that, but I am slipping away.... hubs line in the sand (he says) will be when/if FIL loses bodily function control and cannot feed himself.... I truly do not wish continued health declines, I really don’t, but if that happens and he still has his mind, that will be interesting because hubs can’t even make himself press about our vacay plans!!!
Regarding divorce.... good question. I can honestly say that I don’t think that is an underlying issue, it certainly worth keeping an open eye on.
I am trying to start to do more things on my own, although hubs does not like it.... married to a pouter... but to be fair, he is a good man, and knows me like no other, this situation has just peeled back a layer that it is not so pretty. I have always known that his regard for King Richard was strong, but boy.....the first big fuss we had was about FIL and now here we are full circle.... ironic . Is it just me, or would others have trouble living in this situation when you have absolutely no respect for FIL? He is not mean, mouthy, demanding, etc., which may make it sound like what am I complaining about by those that have that situation.... however, that “marshmallow” floating on top of the water, with absolutely no backbone and nothing underneath is exactly what has caused the loss of all respect for him. It would be easier
if he were mean because his ass would be OUT. He has never once thanked me for handling his wife’s estate, taking care of his financial and all other matters, changing doctors, appt., etc. he will thank me when I give him tea, and thanks hubs every time hubs puts his meals on the table. However, his deceased wife’s two grown children are druggie losers, and fought us tooth and nail over moving him. Long story, but my last straw with FIL was when the daughter & her teen daughter called not long after he had been here, left me a nasty vulgar message. I played it back for FIL listen. So, he picks up his phone, calls her back, and wishes her a happy birthday and goo goo ga ga all over the place, just one example, but the one where I knew where I stood. Afterwards, he would not look me eye to eye, when I asked him if he asked her why she thought she had the right to do that, and did he agree that it was beyond disrespect? He would not respond or even look at me.... I also don’t think he likes that I am not an air headed push over. The King likes women, and would be continuing on with his skirt chasing ways if he were able. Makes me sick that he would not give nearly the regard for his own son, and our kids, if he could be at it again.... never a planner, just a chaser.
WOW, I really did not mean to unload all of this, but I do thank you for your response, and wishing you the best on whatever you are dealing with!
thank you also for your feedback regarding counseling ... I am going to do just that. Stay tuned, and best wishes to you and whatever you have going on.
He is obviously manipulating you, he has no respect for women of strength and character. Common theme with womanizers.
I would let him deal with his own needs that only require mental acuity. He can pick up a fork, he can pick up a phone.
I would encourage you to tell him that his azzhole behavior towards you, complete lack of gratitude and entitlement attitude has caused you to put in your resignation. A thank you from the heart goes a looong way. Entitlement is a short trip.
My dad pulled that kind of crap, all the time. Thought I was put on this earth to be used and abused by him at his convenience. He never could look me in the eye or answer when I asked him about his inappropriate actions. So, I send him all of his paperwork, have drs call his cell, he can deal, deal fella.
I would tell my husband that as much as I love him, I am done being used by his unappreciative, manipulative, self-centered dad. If that is a problem, it is theirs, you have gone above and beyond what should ever be asked of a DIL in an unloving relationship. Your FIL is a complete user, history proves that.
You are not wrong in feeling put upon and unagreeable because this person has hijacked your life, if my husband made a crappy comment like that to me, I would have shown him chemical imbalance. I had a horrid menopause and my BIL made a really ugly comment and I told him and my husband that I have a 5 inch thick medical file recording all of my torment and I am pretty sure that I would be acquitted, so keep your gob hole closed, I must have looked like I meant it because he stopped with the degrading blabber and steared clear of me.
You are a hero, I personally would have thrown him out long ago. His poor choices should not be a life sentence for you or your husband. Send him to his precious step-daughter he thinks so much of her.
Hugs for all you have done for this male, I can't say man, at our home that does not mean gender, it is a man, responsibility, action, back bone etc.
You are very insightful and have a great way of delivering the message, I think we may be kindred souls....
i so much appreciate you taking the extra time to read and consider the situation.... glad for you too regarding the menopause reaction.... bravo to you!!! OMG I just thought what in the world would you do if you were dealing with these issues and going through menopause too!!!! Someone would not survive!!!!
i do feel more confident that I am not over reacting and just on the hunt for a reason to want to tear his head off.... how exactly are you to respect such a spineless individual? Then there’s hubs.... he is squirming and feeling the heat about this vacay situation.... he si
aid he would handle FILs care because I know he did not want me booking him at a facility and making him upset.... so he got it.... and by the way, asked FIL his choice, FIL said he would let him know, and still has not. I reminded hubs that time is closing, but have not offered anything else (which is hard for my personality)... nice though because this is his “baby”.
I know exactly what he is doing.... he will ride this to the last minute, then start trying to out together pre-prepared meals and talk our son into coming over here (for 9 days).... how stupid. Now that I think about it, I can’t believe he consented to 9 days to begin with!
So I brace for this and am planning to tell him that this is not a solution, and that I will go alone before he takes that path.... am I being unreasonable? We both agreed when talking about this vacay that the only 2 options would be respite care at AL, or hire a real service to come to the house. Of course hubs will try to make me look like I am being unreasonable if I do not go for this, it really..... how cowardly..... I don’t even want to go in a vacation alone with him after all of this. Oh well T - 16 days... stay tuned, and thank you again.
Best wishes on whatever you are dealing with!
I agree that when you have no respect for someone it is harder to deal with them, it really colors everything. But I'm thinking that you are struggling with his disrespect towards you and your husband, is the fly in your soup, then add your husband's behaviour that feels very disrespectful, yuck maggot stew!
I hate not knowing the plan and how things are going to be dealt with, crisis management is not something I deal with very well. I find that it is a lack of organization and planning that creates it. Stuff happens and we have to go with the flow but to not take responsibility to begin with is tough. I wouldn't be able to not confront my husband about this, I'm so impressed that you can.
You are so right, I would have probably seriously hurt someone if I was dealing with a brutal menopause and a narsasist dad that ended up almost dead on my hands because of his cradle robbing. 1st person would have been his wife that let things get in such a state for lack of an ER visit. I took one look and thought I had a corpse on my hands and Praise The Lord we showed up when we did or he would have died, per the doctors.
I hope that you get your hearts desire, a vacay to see your daughter(will she have the baby then?) I hope that you and your husband can have a good heart to heart and that you don't loose your marriage because of his dad. That would just suck. You have said that your husband is a good man, until it comes to his dad. Remember that when you are considering your future. If you go FIL wins and maybe that's his passive aggressive plan.
Well kindred spirit have a good night and let's hope hubs wakes up soon. Like right now would be good😆
sounds like you completely understand the feelings, and have been there too.
after ALL of the insane struggle to get away, I ended up just saying to hell with it, and let them do what they wanted to do. Hubs had to figure it out, I was only worried about packing👍🏻
I do have to confess that while I know vacations do not fix things at home, it did a great deal to help me and hubs reconnect and talk freely and honestly.
I hope this breath of fresh air will help us carry on.
FIL will not win this one, you bet ya! Many thanks for your caring and best wishes to you! 😃
The first morning I woke up in my apartment, I had no bed, I was sleeping on a air mattress, only a dresser left over from the kids, no fridge, I purchased a polystyrene ice chest. I had a TV and wooden rocker left over from my kids. No table and chairs, no couch, no washing machine. The sun was shining in the window and I felt like someone had let me out of jail. This was after 26 years of marriage. He helped me move. He told me not to take much because he didn't want to haul it all back. HAH! I never looked back. After about 13 years my current husband talk me into marrying him. I wasn't going to do it again. I did and we had a great 17 years before he has come down with Alzheimer's.
So glad you took the chance and took off. Sounds like you have taken charge of your life, and claimed your happiness. God Bless and good for you!
Wow and wow, sounds like you had your hands full, and how I commend you for sticking together with your husband to keep going. Am sorry to hear of MILs passing by the way. Is it not amazing how many people say the same thing about parents who are narcisstic!!! I truly do not believe that this trait just magically appears with old age and mental illness, but probably an intensified version of their entire life.
By the way, your description of Defcone 1, made me laugh! This is how I would describe most of my feelings ....🤬👀lol.
but seriously, I am glad you sought counseling and received good care from the doctors. Thank God my FIL is not delusional yet, but I can see the clear benefits of help.
you hit on a point that I have often wondered about, and did bring up to hubs while on vacay. That is “re-entry” back to your couple life, if you are so lucky t o still have each other, and your own health. If you write your book, please include a chapter on what I call “the aftermath”.... what a tragedy it would be to find you have an irreputably broken relationship at the finish line..... much like how some parents loose tough with being a couple while raising their children.
God Bless you and enjoy your reclaimed life!
At the end of the vacation journey, here is how it went.
. ALF respite care- no go
. In home intermittent wellness, meal prep- no go. I had an agency lined up and they failed to get back to me....
. After all of this angst, were right back to hubs 1st inclination (advance meal prep & having our son check in)... again, not my choice, but basically said to hell with it, do what you want.
. I have to say that after all of this, our vacation really was most refreshing, and we were able to really talk, be ourselves, eat, drink, sleep when WE wanted. We realized that we had not been alone on vacation, real vacation, since our honeymoon, other than 3 days last winter. Did anything magically change with our situation.... nope, and did not expect it. But, I do think it helped re-set us as a couple, and hopefully we both recognize the vital necessity of time alone together, even if it means US having to leave while we are not alone in our house. A heartfelt thank you to all of my lifesavers out there... truly, if I had not been able to receive your feedback, I don’t think I would have made it!
i will be checking on your guys as well, and plan to be a on active part of this group well into the future, love to all🌸
And start planning your your next vacation. Plan during your weekly night out.