Ok, dear friends, here is the situation: she has lived in her house, a MacMansion, huge, for twelve years; I have lived here for two. I am, apparently her only friend; she has no contact with relatives. So, I am the person she calls. Fortunately, she has plenty of money and investments. Her hoarded stuff is piled about eight feet high in the garage and about four feet high in the house. There are tiny narrow pathways through it all. It is not dirty, as such, mostly stacked in containers or baskets. At the same time is 15-20 feet deep from path to wall so how can one clean??? Now at age 70 she is experiencing pain and mobility issues. Will soon have surgery. She has tried to clean bits of the garage but, as you can imagine, it is just a drop in the ocean. I am worried that when the county steps in--or someone steps in, her good stuff (coin collection, etc.) will be tossed with junk. I want to write an e-mail and give her a heads up that she needs to get the valuables entrusted to a bank or someone in her family, and she needs to take measures before it is all out of her control. Should I?
It is so encouraging there are others out there who would have real concerns for a neighbor. Good for you.
Good analysis, good choice.
I would mention though that squirrels can do a lot of damage if they get inside the house, and they are chewers and manipulators. But I agree that it's not your obligation or responsibility, and based on the concern of intervention as expressed by others, I don't think it would be wise to get involved.
I hope you feel good about your decision? These kinds of choices are not easy ones.
Thank you so much for all of this free and most sage advice.
I have decided that I cannot:
Call the authorities; she would know right away it was me. I am her only contact.
Call the boyfriend who doesn't know. What is the point?
Help her with the hoard. You are right: suspicion, accusations of theft, etc.
But I can:
Ask for a contact name and number of a family member (to call when the police come around if she gets hurt, etc.)
Ask for name of her lawyer for the same reasons.
Stay in regular contact by e-mail and phone (she likes to e-mail). That way I will know if she can't get up or is for some reason unreachable.
You have made me realize that this is surely not the worst case scenario. The mess is in the house and on the back porch. So far no rats; just squirrels chewing up boxes. And, when it all comes crashing down, there is enough money for professional removal and cleaning. So, no intervention needed from me.
How does that sound????
As to tarps, that's considered a code enforcement violation in my father's area.
I had to remove one tarp from his yard specifically for that reason. I was even asked to remove the snow shovels from his front porch. They're kept there for the neighbors who volunteer to clear his drive in the winter.
Hannah, I'm surprised that the various city codes don't have specific ones for exterior conditions. It does seem like the city isn't very aggressive about the issue though.
Can I tell the aggressive code enforcement officers to take their rulers and come to your area? I'd love to see them leave.
Perhaps it's because Detroit is such a sinkhole and communities in the SE area have become "blight sensitive", but I've seen and heard about increased code enforcement monitoring to detect potential and existing blight issues.
Some of it has gone way beyond reason. In one community, I learned that missing numbers from a house can be considered a violation of building standards. In my community, neighbors have commented that code enforcement officers bring a ruler and measure the height of grass to determine if it's above 6". I do know that they drive up and down the streets monitoring grass heights.
At one time they even made all violations of every house available on line. A neighbor who's meticulous about his lawn and mows it whether it grows or not was cited for putting his garbage out before noon.
On the other hand, a neighbor told me last week that a nest of rats was found in a garage on her street. Now THAT'S worthy of action.
I understand the safety issue, especially for first responders who need to ensure they're at the right house, but it's not in the same level of violation as an unsafe structure.
1) That is when she may turn to the boyfriend for help and he will keep them for her, 'for safekeeping."
2) If she has privacy or trust issues, a bit of paranoia, dementia, the liklihood she will be alarmed by your offer and concerned about your motives is high.
3) Even if you don't help her, just being a friend is enough.
Your heart for others has always been in the right place.
Under the guidelines of protecting yourself, and
wh ether you believe it or not, No Good Deed Goes Unpunished.
It may be okay to distance yourself, reconsider the need.
Has she asked for your help?
I think in the future more will be known about hoarding, and hopefully will provide better insight into treatment other than shaming on tv shows.
It's interesting that your neighbor has common sense to know that if her boyfriend saw her home that he might leave her. You'd think the boyfriend would be curious about her home. I know if I was dating someone, I would eventually want to be invited to their home.
She has a boyfriend whose never seen her house? Yes, that is correct. Awkward.
What does she do with the cats when she's visiting her boyfriend for weeks at a time? It is not weeks but 5-6 days 2-3 times per month. Leaves them plenty of water and food and a litter box. Awkward and sad.
The boyfriend info changes my opinion of the situation. Ok, thanks.
You cannot help this woman in any meaningful way and you're not going to "Fix" her. If she ends up like the collyer brothers there's nothing you can do about it. Ok, I will google the collier brothers.
By the way, I did not mean to imply in my message that I live in a macmansion--I don't . It is one of those crazy neighborhoods where the houses on the water (like hers) are big and expensive but the houses behind (like mine) are small and humble.
It has been made more complicated over the last year by the fact that she has a new boyfriend who lives two hours away. She spends about twelve to fifteen days a month there with him--a total escape from reality. This keeps her from dealing with her stuff. BUT she also has the risk that he might find out about the hoard and dump her--she understands that this would happen.
Yet, it is like the turning of the screw. He bought her a set of remote room video/security cameras so that she can keep an eye on her cats (yes, there are four cats...) but she can't set the cameras up because if she did, he would see the inside of the house.
He also wants to take care of her after her surgery--but she can't let him see her house. So, she is arranging to have the surgery there near his home instead of here with her own medical team.
The complications are becoming burdensome. I think I will just sleep on this for a while.
Many thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hoarding can happen for a variety of reasons. Some people can't quit buying and have no organization skills to figure out what they are going to do with all the things they buy. Maybe they feel like they are investments and they will sell them for profit one day. But that day never comes, and soon treasures are buried under other treasures. Each piece has monetary value, so is hard to part with. This problem is probably worse now than it used to be, with so many people buying at garage sales, thinking they'll sell on eBay or Etsy and never getting around to it.
Other people hoard for sentimental reasons. These are the hardest hoards to get handle for someone. Each piece has some memory the person can't let go of. Other people hoard because they are afraid of going without. Food hoarders often fall in this category. Other people hoard to build a fort of stuff all around them. This keeps family and friends away, since there are no beds for them or anywhere to sit. Other people hoard because they're too lazy to throw things out. These last ones are the easiest to clean... as long as someone else does the work.
If the hoard is serious, I would recommend family and professionals to work with the woman to organize the cleanup. The method used in the TV shows is the one I've found that works best -- donate, keep, trash. The hardest part is to start the process going. The anxiety and anger can be terrible, so you have to take rests from it. Once the momentum is going, getting them to part with their treasures is much easier. Seeing their living space cleared is rewarding. They will need therapy and help, though, to keep from filling it back up.
This cannot be done quickly without being terribly traumatic. If I were just a friend, I would make suggestions, but not try to help unless invited.
Others hoard have the items make them feel like they are in a safe cocoon, thus if someone tries to take away some of the items it makes the hoarder feel they could become a victim.
My worry would be your neighbor's surgery. If she would need to have to use a walker, would there be enough room for her to get through the pathways, into the kitchen, into the bathroom. If a walker is warranted, I would casually asked her what would she suggest doing to make it easier for her to get down the pathways. I think one has better luck if the hoarder comes up with ideas. But don't be surprised if your neighbor changes her mind later on.
I recently cleaned out my parents house, they didn't hoard but it still felt very overwhelming to me... to someone not emotionally attached, it would have looked simple. What to keep? What to donate? What to trash?
It sounds suspiciously as though the reason you feel at all fondly towards this lady is that you haven't known her very long. If you want to stay fond of her, do not try to separate her from her hoard. Someone will have to in the end, sure, but why should it be you?
Better to help her when she asks you to, and only with what she asks you to, and be the good neighbour who scrapes her off the floor and calls the ambulance when one of her treasured leaning towers of junk topples on her head.
If there are seriously valuable items and you're afraid she might be robbed - one way or the other - you could offer to take photos for her and store them on a memory stick. Don't touch her stuff. It'll end in tears.
I do think it's a good idea to warn her of what might happen to her valuable and put her on alert to gather her valuables for safe keeping. Would she allow them to be placed in a bank deposit box or with her attorney for safe keeping? It's doubtful a burglar would find them, but you never know.
If you suspect that she's not thinking clearly, I might contact her POA. Do you know who that is? If she doesn't have one, I would suggest to her that she gets one. I wouldn't accept it though. It would be a huge responsibility based on her circumstances. You are so kind to be concerned.
Be prepared for her to be scared about it getting stolen in which case suggest she make sure the coins are listed on her homeowner's insurance policy. Offer her your help with keeping it safe by making sure it's insured.
I hope you two find a Spanish galleon and I hope she remembers your kindness in her will.
But apparently there's a demand for sensationalistic programs, and some networks heed that siren ($$$) call for increased viewers and exploit very vulnerable people.
I'm not sure there really are good solutions to this issue, but publicizing through tv programs in my opinion only compounds the problem and makes a pariah out of the hoarding person. Just my opinion, but possibly germane to your question.
You are very considerate to think ahead. I think how well you know this person, whether or not she would become defensive, and similar factors underlie the issue of warning her about possible intervention. How do you think she would react? If she's in pain, it just may not be possible for her to contemplate or address the hoarding issue.
What you might consider in addition to the warning is an actual plan, a simple step by step plan to break down the breadth and complexity of the problem.
If her valuables are stored in any particular place, start there, then help develop a plan for the most needed areas, little by little.
Find out what her favorite charities are in the even that some things can be donated. Emphasize how much she'll be helping people in need by donating clothing, furniture, etc.
If she agrees, start simply, one box at a time, and make it a time for relaxation by encouraging her to chat, tell you about her life, her interests, her family, etc., so that when you leave, she'll feel uplifted rather than overwhelmed or beaten down.
Do you know her family well enough to work with them if your friend is agreeable? Do others in the neighborhood know of the situation, and do you think any of them would make formal complaints against her?
Most importantly, are there serious sanitation issues or is it primarily a lot of stored stuff?
Another consideration is whether or not she'll be returning home after surgery or will be in rehab for awhile. The latter would probably be preferable as she'll get attention in a clean environment, attention and support she wouldn't have at home.
You might want to casually inquire about this, then when you feel she's receptive explain your concern in as gentle a way as possible and suggest asking her family to help secure the valuables.
You wrote that she has no contact with relatives, so that could be a problem if that's by choice. Perhaps her relatives have abandoned her.