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Ages ago many people died very painful deaths and lingered on for months on end, which was horrible for the family to watch as usually they were the caregivers.

If younger and our grandparent(s) and/or parent(s) had a crystal ball to see into the future, I wonder if they would say "let me suffer a horrible death, give me nothing to reduce the pain, I want my love ones to see me whither in agony".... I don't think so. We, ourselves, wouldn't want that kind of death for ourselves.

I know for myself, it I was approaching death, make it as painless as possible, and make it quick.
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In all cases the patients comfort comes first and the family must understand that dying should not be evident to the patient and it is best for them to be comatose.
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Has OP has left the building?
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Grieving, I'm so sorry that this was your experience of Hospice. I personally have not had the hospice experience with my mother yet,but my aunt/cousin's experience was a much more supportive, comforting experience.

I don't have any great words of comfort other than "I'm sorry". I hope that you are able to find peace.
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Babalou / Here's more detail of what happened. My mother's doctor is the medical director of the hospice he selected for her. AT the hospital, he told me that signing her up for hospice would ensure that she would receive better care by providing more nurses and aids at the nursing home. Later that day the hospice rep. comes to my mother's hospital room with a mountain of forms for me to sign. I wasn't told nor was I able to read what I was signing.

Her last day at the nursing home, I spoke to her doctor and asked that she be taken back to the hospital. He refused saying in a very belligerent tone that she was dying and that sending her back to the hospital would not do any good.

Later that evening I spoke to the hospice nurse by phone and asked about sending my mom back to the hospital. She told me that I was being selfish and wanted my mother to suffer so she could be with me.

Now thinking back, it seems that both her doctor, who was being paid by hospice, and the hospice itself refused or at least strongly discouraged taking my mom back to the hospital.

She died a few hours later. I have been in a state of extreme grief and emotionally distraught ever since.
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Grieving, I'm sorry for your loss. Was it you who signed the consent for Hospice Care? When you sign on for Hospice, that organization takes over care; at least that is how it has been explained to me. But as POA, you are able to say, no, I no longer want Hospice Services, I want to call 911 and have Mom examined at the hospital, or whatever life-saving measure you want to take. You are then taking your L.O off hospice care.

The way it's been explained to me, by the Hospice that works at my mom's NH, she needs to be medically certified as being ready for Hospice, but that we can chose to discontinue Hospice service at any time. Her sister, my aunt, went on and off hospice for years, rallying when she was not expected to live several times.
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Oh, no -- a conspiracy theorist. :-O
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Hospice has one function: to facilitate the dying process in order to save the government money. One way to achieve this mission is to administer morphine and other opium based drugs to expedite death (whether the patient is in pain or not). The doctor and nursing home turn your loved one's care over to hospice for euthanasia. The POA has no input into the patient's care once hospice takes over.
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Ultimately the patient or healthcare proxy is in charge. If patient or their proxy say no, then something is not done. If it is against hospice policy, then hospice can pull out.
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When it seemed clear that my Mom wasn't going to recover from her fall/head injury the geriatric/dementia doctor at the hospital recommended hospice. Hospice gathered the family in for a meeting where hospice described what kind of care they do and what to expect in the future. I was glad there were many ears at this meeting because it can be difficult to digest as this is one's final chapter in their life. I am sure most people don't hear everything that is said, I know my Dad didn't. I am sure a lot of people didn't read word for word what they are signing.

Hospice had called me [POA] to talk about the meds that my Mom had been taking from her primary and specialist doctors, to which all was stopped, and that if Mom was in pain would it be ok to use morphine... I had suggested another med to try, but if that med didn't work then yes to morphine... I wanted my Mom to be comfortable.

I know occasionally Mom my will say "I've had enough" to which we believe is in reference to being bedridden for the past two months and having her mind befuddled.
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In the case you describe morphine is used when the patient is near death to keep them comfortable. This is generally the doctors decision as the end is close.
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Hospice put my mother on an opiod without my consent. I was the POA. She was not in pain. I questioned them about this and was told they were in charge of her care and not the nursing home. She was 83 and had been bedridden for 2 months after falling and breaking her hip. She died after 12 hours on the opiod. I believe hospice hastened her death. Is hospice legally liable?
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Anita, I was thinking the same thing. I don't know what people expect when people are dying slowly. My father died naturally after a 10-year descent to the grave. The last few days were not pretty. They were not the touching scenes that are common for movies and TV. If I had to pick a word to describe it, I would say withering. We watched as his organ systems failed and his circulation stopped working. He had a lot of pain in his legs. He didn't really want food and water, though he would eat a bit. The only relief from the withering state was when he rallied about an hour before his death. He ate a turkey sandwich and drank some Ensure. He still had turkey on his lips and teeth when he began his final descent into death as his lungs filled with fluid.

He didn't know who I was. He thought I was a nurse or other employee. In the last hour he couldn't find words. It was merciful when death finally came. I had called hospice in that morning and they arrived quickly, but he had just died. I wish I had brought them in earlier, but there was denial and resistance from my mother. I know if they had been there his last few days would have been better. They would have relieved the pain that he had in his legs. It was excrutiating to him, I know.

So... while some people are sorry for calling in hospice, others of us are sorry that we did not. Hospitals are reluctant to give morphine -- probably because of what we are reading here and being questioned about the use. I don't know. I just know it would have been a great gift to my father in easing his pain during the final days.

My father was still walking slowly a week before his death. When the final days came, they moved in swiftly.
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WHY do you want to keep your poor grandmother alive? For what? She has advanced Alzheimers and is losing weight - it's apparent she's had enough!

Hint: there is NO CURE for old age!

We have been caring for my 93 yo MIL in our home for the past year. Here's what we have learned: neither one of us will EVER go through what she is going through: sleeping 18-19 hours/day, bored - but unwilling to go to a senior day care (and my husband is too guilty/foolish to force her to - unfortunately for her and us - since we are now trapped in our home 24/7), a burden to others with NO quality of life, no hobbies, failing eyesight so she can't read much (not that she ever did, she dropped out of school as a teen), slowly declining physical health, increasing dementia making it harder for her to function and even have a conversation....

No no - we've discussed it, and we'll both be taking a pill before we get to this point: a living death, a "life", days and weeks just waiting to die....recently added to my bucket list: if I make it to 90 I intend to try all the drugs I didn't try earlier in life - and maybe some of those too. Haha!

So again, WHY do you want to keep your Grandmother alive?
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Morphine is your/ her friend, and I don't understand the ignorance of it. I was on morphine for seven months following a car accident, and my Mum has been taking it for six years. And we manage to "survive" it. And yes, it does make you thirsty. If it were me, I'd get my grandmama a glass of water if I had to walk *over* staff.
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You know u can change hospice companies,right.
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See above under mymomsmom. She is under hospice care again. I will never allow them to give her morphine. They persuaded me to forego food and water and once I realized what I was doing to her, it was too late to bring her back. This starvation and lack of water is barbaric, inhumane and, quite frankly murder. I will NEVER be able to forgive myself for doing this to her. She is lingering and wasting away and it's a terrible death. I wouldn't put my dog thru this and yet, I've allowed myself to kill my own mother. I'm a Christian and I can't even pray anymore b/c I am so guilt ridden.
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My mother is 100. The first time she was in hospice care, I thought they were wonderful. She had pnuemonia and could have lived or died and we managed to get her well enough to be released from hospice and continue "living". This time, I have a completely different view.
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I give up,this iis messing up too much
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I'm sorry for your distress,it is not illegal however hospice usually bring the meds for pain,anxiety,nausea and such.In majority of cases I've seen the family usually administer these dr
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My mom was put on hospice, and it was what the hospital and doctors pumped her up full of medicines, steroids, she was out of it. Then they sent her home with nothing but hospice. We ended up firing the hospice people, and we took over. that was February, and they told us my mom was going to die. We were in denial. We knew what happened was from the hospital, she walked in there. Now that God, she is living with my brother. I want to call the hospise people up to come and see the woman they said had no hope. Don't ever give up hope!
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Confused, since you are not the POA I want to suggest that you trust your mom and aunt. It is their job to carry out Grandma's wishes. I am sure that the three of them discussed this and your mom and aunt have the very difficult job of carrying out grandma's instructions and wishes. Please do not make it harder on them. I will tell you my mom is 89 in later stages of Alzheimer's Disease and her instructions are no heroics, that means surgeries, tubes, whatever to keep her alive and suffer just one more day. She completed her documents 15 years ago when she was perfectly capable of making these decisions.

My suggestion for you is to call your siblings and whoever to tell them you all need to support your mom and aunt through this. Trust in them that they are doing as grandma wanted. Do not make this harder for mom and aunt than it already is. Then all of you call your moms and ask what you can do to help and let them know you love them.
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ConfusedHoosier, think of it this way, your Grandmother is deciding what she wants to do and that is to go into her final chapter of her life, she is doing that by not wanting to eat or not wanting a lot of liquids. Let her have control of this choice. And let her rest peacefully, and if morphine helps her rest peacefully then let her have that medicine.

My Mom [97] is on hospice care.... hospice usually calls the POA and not the rest of the family members as they just want one person to make the decisions. I was told about the morphine and agreed it would help if my Mom had any discomfort. If hospice called everyone in the family, half would say yes, half would say no, and hospice would be at a standstill until everyone in the family comes to an agreement... and that is not fair to the Grandmother.

ConfusedHoosier, you are visiting your Grandmother once every two weeks, thus you are not seeing the ups and downs of what your Grandmother is going through. With my own Mom one day she would be alert, sitting in her Geri Recliner, and being chatty... the next day she would be in bed totally zoned out... next day back to being alert, same the following day, then the day after back to being zoned out and again the following day. My Mom also had her mouth wide opened and that was because she was breathing through her mouth, that does happen. Then there is delirium which is frightening to watch unless given a certain medicine to zone the patient out. Then the picking at one's clothing, the bedding, one's skin, etc. Whenever I see this in my Mom, I want her to close her final chapter sooner than later. The quality of life is gone.
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There was only a meeting if the POAs wanted one -- my mom is one of the two POAs -- there was not a meeting today - although my moms spoke to the head nurse and she didn't realize my grandma was put on morphine over the weekend.

When I say we are lefted with questions I mean me, my sister, my cousins, my granny's niece, etc.

My grandma would kick all of our a**es if she was able for putting her in a nursing home in the first place. When she was stronger she would resist as much as she could and say lets get the hell out of here - take me home- your grandfather would roll over in his grave if he knew your mother put me in here! :)

The family who were present at the nursing home today and tonight kept saying why isn't she in the hospital? Where's the fuilds? I feel exhausted-- because I don't have the answers nor am I the POA... But the staff filled me in well enough to understand if we take granny to the hospital or hook up fuilds for granny to be comfortable as possible and hydrated -- hospice will walk-- so if grandma does start going into shock and is in agonizing pain thanks to their shenanigans hospice will say ... oh we have a 6 month wait see you when we can get back to you.

I don't have the answers -- but I can tell you this much from what I've learned thus far Hospice seems pretty "snakey" to me ... Perhaps I will change my point of view at the end of this experience -- but for someone to not communicate with the family that morphine is being administered is unacceptable-- yeah we are all appreciative grandma got a chair 2 weeks ago that she fit in comfortably -- but to have her bedridden this week isn't worth it-- I'd rather take the crappy chair back at least it had my grandma in it awake and coherent.
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We that have been through it know that death is hard to accept and to deal with. We always hope there will be a turnaround and maybe one more day. ConfusedHoosier, your gma seems to be at the end of her journey. Perhaps you can spend some time with her and not worry so much about fighting for one more day or week. Maybe you can think about what your grandmother would have wanted if she knew this was going to be what happened.
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Was there a meeting with Hospice? Were you present? Did you get answers to your questions?

When you say "we are left to question", who is the "we"?

Granny is being left...isn't she in a nursing home? With hospice care? So, do you want someone to be with her 24/7?
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Confused, in "end of life" situations, as the body shuts down, nutrition is neither desired nor needed by the patient. It seems to me that you are questioning if granny is really at the "end of life" stage, although everything you've written about her condition would seem to indicate that's where she is.
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Update: now the morphine is wearing off and granny will die with out fluids being administered intravenously. My Aunt, one of two POAs has hit the road for a day trip while we are left to question why would one leave Granny with no way to eat or fend for herself now that she is coming off of the drugs. Regardless living out your days on morphine or without is horrible. However no communication at a time when communication is needed the most is just plain ole belligerent. It is what it is and I can't change the path for my grandmother's demise. Thanks for your feedback and knowledge on Hospice and morphine.
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Confused, go with your mother and aunt tomorrow and ask your specific question about survival after morphine. And don't be bashful - make sure you get an answer or at least a project of survivability so you understand the situation.

I hope you feel better about this and get the answers you need tomorrow.
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By the way, please come back and tell us about the meeting with hospice by your mom and aunt, and what they decide to do. We learn from each other.
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