Follow
Share

She's been living with my sister and I every other month for the past 13 yrs. Although, she just started paying $500 a month the past 3 yrs. We do everything for her. Meds, food, bathing, doctor visits, laundry, etc. She can't be left alone, so it's 24 hour care. We feel she should be paying more. It was difficult to just get her to agree on the $500. How should we approach this? We have 2 other siblings that aren't able to care for her.

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Is she competent?   Have you explained to her what assisted living will cost?   Can you get one of the 2 siblings to plead your case?
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Good luck with this, because at age 90 she is seeing 500 as a fortune! It may be because she grew up when people made 200 a month if they were lucky! I remember many years ago a friend was visiting us, and mentioned her mortgage payment amount in from of my MIL. MIL said "no one pays that much for a mortgage".. yep we sure do! We just laughed it off.. the ILs paid 3000 for a vacation home in the 50s,, that is where her mind was "stuck". How much does she bring in these days from SS/retirement/investments.. etc? I would be gentle,, she is living in the past probably.
Helpful Answer (13)
Report
MyCrossToBear Jun 2020
So true!!!
(1)
Report
See 2 more replies
In home care or a facility would cost a lot more than $500 a month, but most family members do no get paid at all. Is your mother still managing her own finances?
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

When you and your sister agreed to take mom on, you weren't aiming to get paid for whatever services you'd provide. It's not likely she'll want to start paying you now.

It is fair that she pay for living expenses. But items such as gas, laundry detergent and food may only add up to $500-or less.

If, in fact, you and your sister cannot work/earn money outside the home because taking care of mom is a "full time job", it would be fair to ask mom for compensation.
But don't price it out hourly or per-service, or request an estimated sum of potential lost wages. Keep in mind, the two of you took on moms care willingly.

If she refuses, talk to a few agencies about the cost of home care
and make sure mom is there. She will be able to compare that potential out-of-pocket expense to the amount you requested, and may capitulate.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

Hope you got someone to help you write up that contract for her payment and that you are reporting it as earnings. Otherwise, when you need the Medicaid to pay for her facility bed, it can be viewed as gifting.

Do the other siblings live far away? If either is close enough, maybe they could do something to help even if it's not the 24 hr care in their own homes.

As for increase payment - is there a reason you both did the work for free and 10 years later decided to ask for pay? Was it because there really is an increase in what you pay out of pocket or you want to be paid for services? Just wondered about that part. If she needs 24/7 care, she probably can go to assisted living, but would she consider a nursing facility close to you and sis?

Other than a facility, I guess you could figure out what her own personal expenses are that you pay for out of your pocket for her. Then figure out what rent/mtg, utilities, groceries, etc are that everyone in the house uses and divide that amount by total number of people who live in your home. Maybe if you showed her that, she might be willing to up the pay.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
MargaretMcKen Jun 2020
There is an obvious answer to why 'you both did the work for free and 10 years later decided to ask for pay?' Try 'she was fairly capable at age 80, and now at 90 she needs 24/7 care!'
(4)
Report
After looking for a month, The absolute least expensive In Home Caregiver I found to Care for my 96 yr old Dad 24 7, in his own home wanted 12 hr but accepted $9 for Full Time and $12 an hr Holidays.

Just $9 an hr is $512 a week.

Your Mom should be paying a Minimum of $500 a week.

Yiu should get a Home Health Care Provider to come out and give you an estimate fir taking Care of your mom 24 7 and they will quote anywhere from $15 - $25 an hr.

Show tgat estimate to your mom then tell her you'll accept $500 a week or she can try having a Caregiver instead and pay the higher amount.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

Check the money first. Does mother have an income or benefit of some kind? If not, why not? Should she be applying for one? How long will the ‘little money in her bank account’ last if you make a reasonable charge? Should you be applying for Medicaid now?

Sorting out a viable future budget is more important than a big argument about an extra $200 a month!
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

I care for my mom and pay for everything for her. She is my mom!
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
PeeWee57 Jun 2020
I never charged my mom for taking care of her (the labor, as it were), but Mom insisted on paying for her personal things - her meds, clothing, incontinence supplies, doctor bills, DME, etc. She did pay family members who came out to "momsit" when Hubs and I would take a weekend getaway.

When my sister became ill with cancer, I flew out to care for her several times, and Mom paid for the trip and the expenses because, as she put it, "You're going out there in my place. I'd go if I could, but I can't." Ditto when my cousin (Mom's goddaughter) became ill. Mom always took care of all of us when we were sick or needed help. She was just that way, and she was distressed that she could no longer do things like that.

Despite her kind and generous nature, Mom got very difficult to live with during the last couple of years that she lived with me, but I continued to care for her until it was no longer physically possible for me to do so.

I never wanted to charge her for my labors because she had done so much for me over my lifetime. And from a practical standpoint, I knew that she would need to have at least 2 months' worth of long term care expenses to fall back on during the Medicaid application process if it became necessary to place her in a facility. I didn't want to deplete those savings.

I guess it all depends on the family dynamics.
(5)
Report
See 1 more reply
I was in this boat. and I’m sick of parents thinking you owe them. They raise you and you repay by raising your kids. Care & visits to them are automatic, but full time care should not be uncompensated.And stop laying it all on daughters & expecting nothing of sons!!
Lay out what you’re willing to do and for how much: let them know their realistic options. Your life comes first.
Helpful Answer (8)
Report
Kashi60 Jun 2020
Amen!
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
I think the best situation is always to live with family if possible - If the elderly one is treated well and the home is set up with senior safety devices like handrails, wheelchair ramps, etc.
Since 24 hour care is impossible for one individual to do - as they must sleep too - outside help is also almost necessary for night duty in case the elderly needs attention during the night.
In that scenario, 8 hours a day of night duty alone to pay someone $9/hour x 8 hours x 7 days/wk = $504/week ... but there’s still the other 16 hours/ day that you and sister are caregiving and not yet compensated.
Can the other two siblings pitch in financially if not physically?
Can Insurance pay you at all?
This is a tough one and I commend you both.
Be sure to document all monies in case she needs governmental help as there’s proper ways to “spend down” her money according to them so she’s not denied any benefits of improper spending down which would require research.
God bless.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

Be careful with this! Legally she can only gift you $600 a month. You need to take her to her attorney and have a contract drawn up and have all the siblings agree and sign the contract. I am in the same boat and feel that since my mother took care of us when we were children it is time for us to take care of her.
Helpful Answer (8)
Report
gladimhere Jun 2020
I have never heard that gifting of $600.00 is allowed anywhere. Any gifting would cause Medicaid issues.

If being paid any amount there needs to be a contract in place with all withholdings properly documented. Then all income if over the IRS yearly amount reported as income.

Does mom have an attorney she has worked with? Is she competent? Do you have POA's in place? Make an appointment with an elder law attorney; have that person tell her about the cost of care.
(3)
Report
What are your mother's health conditions, Donna? Do you get a full night's sleep? (This would be a big one for me.) Are you constantly at her beck and call? Do you ever get any time for yourself? Where are the other 2 siblings who aren't able to care for her? (Please tell me they aren't your brothers, a is too often the case!)

What is the plan as she further declines? Have you promised to never put her into a facility? Does she have dementia? Is she mobile? Have you thought at all about checking into Medicaid eligibility?
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

Half a loaf is better than none. My dad stopped giving my sister a 100 a month last year and now as POA and caregiver, he gets it free. However, her name is on everything so someday she will get all of that. Be happy with what you have. She won't bite.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
FloridaDD Jun 2020
Being POA does not entitle you to any of the estate and highly likely there will be no estate.  No, OP should not be happy.
(6)
Report
See 1 more reply
If she has the funds then she should be paying you more. If she had to hire a caregiver it would be paying a lot more. Maybe take over her bank account and just reimburse yourselves.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
disgustedtoo Jun 2020
"Maybe take over her bank account and just reimburse yourselves." NOT a good recommendation for several reasons. Should mom ever need Medicaid, they will review up to 5 years of accounts and anything not stipulated in a legal caregiving agreement will be considered gifting, thereby denying mom Medicaid. The IRS has rules as well, for "gifting", which this likely would fall under and for tax purposes.

LEGAL advice would be best, and getting a legit caregiver agreement would solve the Medicaid issue and IRS gifting, but could still have tax implications.
(0)
Report
I would highly suggest you hire a sitter to help care for your mom. I have used Concierage Home Health. She will only become more needy. Let mom pay for her own meds and other needs including sitters. My sister takes care of mom's bills and banking. My mom and aunt live in their own homes but both have sitters. Family is in and out everyday. I just registered my mom with Visiting Physicians of Jacksonville and I am so relieved. All services including visits, lab draws, basic xray, ultrasound and ekgs are done where she lives! Home delivery for meds. My mom and aunt do not pay me for my time, gas or anything else. We have to tend our elderly without giving up our entire lives.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
Bshandy Jun 2020
Wow, I wish we had that in Virginia!
(0)
Report
Let's set aside "paying" you for her care. As a member of the household she should pay you a portion of the cost of running that household. If there are 3 adults then the cost of mortgage, insurance, utilities, food should be divided in 1/3. Then on top of that she should be paying for her own medications, clothing and any other personal expenses.
And if any modification to the house have had to be made she should pay for those as well.
Now to paying you. $500 a month is not nearly enough.
If she will not agree to increase that then start charging her for the above things I mentioned. This would increase your 500 by quite a bit.
And it sounds like she is able to make her own decisions so if she will not agree to this then you and your sister need to put up a united front and start looking for Assisted Living for her. Maybe once she realizes you are serious she might think better about increasing what she pays you
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
disgustedtoo Jun 2020
I don't agree with requiring someone to pay 1/3 of ALL expenses ("the cost of mortgage, insurance, utilities, food should be divided in 1/3.") Reasonable increase in expenses should be covered.

Increase in utilities could have been calculated by comparing to past expenses, but it being 13 years, there would be regular increases over time. However, since they are taking care of her every other month, then compare the month without her to the one with her, over a few months' time, and average it out (if possible, use old bills, esp for differences during winter and A/C times, although the increase in heat and A/C would not likely be impacted much by one additional person living in the home.) That would cover utilities and it isn't likely 1/3. Food is a little more difficult to calculate, but anything that only she eats/drinks should be purchased separately and she pays for it, along with other needs (meds, medical insurance, toiletries, incontinence products, etc.) A similar average could be done over a few months' time to figure out how much more is spent when she is living with you. Some gas money would be good to figure in as well, if you have to transport her to doctor, hospital, PT, etc., but keep it sensible and within IRS rules.

I mainly have a problem with expecting mom to cover 1/3 the cost of the mtg and house insurance. THOSE amounts will not change whether she lives there or not, and in the end YOU own it, not her. IF the housing is rental, then perhaps a portion of that could be charged to mom, but if they had the room anyway, it would be more like the mtg issue - you were paying it anyway. IF you moved to a larger unit to accommodate mom, then it would be reasonable to charge the difference in cost to mom.

Care is a whole different issue and should be calculated carefully and properly documented (caregiving agreement drawn up legally) to avoid issues with IRS gifting, Medicaid and any tax implications.
(0)
Report
Research how much home health care aides get compensated for their time. Use that as your guide.

Question: Why is this coming up as a concern now? Spend time talking with your sister about the reasons for increased compensation as an issue at this time.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

I am a paid independence caregiver.
I work 30 hours a week caribg for a senior.
I reveive 3,500.00 a month.
Enough said.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
Learning5 Jun 2020
Helpful information.
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
You approach it by treating her as a grown-up and showing her the numbers.

She either is in full command of her faculties and able to understand that food costs x, utilities and gas cost y, and home support services cost z; or she isn't - in which case she shouldn't be handling her own finances anyway.

When she cut up rough before, when you were discussing the $500 with her three years ago, how did you arrive at that number in the end?

It is an awkward conversation, but facts is facts and numbers don't lie. "Here's the bill, mother. Sorry, but nothing in life is free!"
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

You'll be happy when she is gone and you know you took care of her.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

I've commented on something similar before. This is my take on it.
We love our parents, but caring is a very hard all consuming thing. Unless you get paid you can feel resentful and the whole thing can fall apart,which is no good for anyone.
When my husband and I moved in we said we wouldn't take a penny. But most nights my mum keeps us up all night, calling my name and saying she needs a wee(she has a catheter) and Dad wanders and is very hard work. So we gradually thought.. We need to be paid for this.. When I approached one of my siblings who is joint lpa he agreed with what I asked for immediately. I've 4 siblings and no one else would do it.
So at least now, when I'm tired and they've been hard work, I can say Never mind. You're paid for it so get in with it.
It's the hardest job in the world but it can be so rewarding.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

Elder Law Attorney is needed right away. Everything should be drawn up legally for your state. That way if she ever needs Medicaid, it will be the correct amount on look back, not just money given as gift, which would cause problems.
Helpful Answer (7)
Report

Keep in mind that $500 dollars sounds like a lot of money to a 90 year old.
Keep it legal! Get everything in writing!
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Sounds like greed to me. Did you pay her for all the stuff she bought you as a child? Did you pay her rent? Have you ever borrowed money from her and never paid it back. Think about it she’s your mom, when she’s gone you will wish she were around again.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
Maryjann Jun 2020
You don't know the situation of the OP. Maybe she is really struggling and is growing resentful. For all any of us know, Mom was distant and tightfisted even then. Please give posters the benefit of the doubt.
(3)
Report
See 1 more reply
I don't know how you would approach her, I would take the advice of others.

I take care of my 94 year old Mom and I don't get paid anything first because my Mom can't afford it (she made bad decisions late in her life), secondly I really love taking care of my Mom. I will always look back of these years with my Mom and be at peace within myself for doing the right thing.

After I sold my Mom's house she bought another house (I picked it out, did all the financials and it is the house we live in) and when my Mom passes I will inherit this house and to me that's enough "material" reward. No amount of money could give me the inner peace that I have now (maybe some will understand this, others will not).

That said, your question begs why 13 years later are you asking this? And were you happy with the $500 a month for the past 3 years? What changed now?

Jenna
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
DonnaF777 Jun 2020
Jenna.... well... maybe you have a "nice mom"... I did not. My mother died when she was 59. Sounds like you and your mom were on "good terms" and she listened to you and both of you were not abusive to each other. This is not the way it is in many cases. My mother was abusive to 3 of her 4 children. The reason she was NOT abusive..(but very much enabling to our younger brother was because, it looks like anyway) she had had an affair and he was the result of that affair. That is all we can figure out. Now...there are many dementia patients that I have taken care of while working for home health and many are just plain abusive to everyone including their children. Just had one of my dementia patients die and she could not see how everyone was putting their lives on hold for ALL her needs which were everything. She could do nothing for herself. She needed 24 hour care. Every time she needed something she would tell me that I was to call her daughter and "TL will get this today after she gets off work and bring it to me" and she expected this. She would get angry when TL did not do what she said. TL has her own family of kids, grand kids plus husband and full time job. This patient also had a dog (which I now have) that she expected EVERYONE to cater to...daughter and myself bathed this dog during quarantine, and this dog "his health issues" and again, this patient was doing nothing for this dog except causing it to get sick therefore the daughter and everyone else had to deal with! People are giving up their income from their jobs to take care of mom/dad... whoever... and should they not be compensated for this so they can pay their bills? I know it sounds horrible.... but...if mom/dad, etc. can afford it... yes they should be compensating them just as if they were paying someone to come in from home health care... an agency to come in a take care of them. I am 67. If I ever get to the point that I cannot take care of myself, I have let my daughter know that when I get to the point if I am belligerent...unreasonable...demanding...being mean to you, ABUSIVE....I AM TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW... YOU ARE NOT TO TAKE CARE OF ME. You are NOT to have to deal with me. I am out of my mind... and dementia patients don't care about anyone else. This is the way they are. You cannot reason with them. You can ONLY do so much but NOT everything a great majority of these people need and THEY NEED A LOT DONE FOR THEM. THEY DEMAND A LOT FROM EVERYONE WHILE NOT ABLE TO DO ANYTHING FOR THEMSELVES. Put me into a facility if and when I act that way.
(5)
Report
Explain it the same way she explained it to you and your sister when you were small she did everything that you were saying and yeah you think she didn't want out sometimes I'm sorry I know that's not the answer you were looking for but just think about it.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
disgustedtoo Jun 2020
"...you think she didn't want out sometimes..." Sounds like someone didn't have a very happy childhood. I raised my 2 kids pretty much on my own from ages 3 and 6, and NEVER EVER EVER did I want "out".

I have also told them that should I be so unfortunate as to follow my mother down that yellow brick road, I don't want them to feel they have to care for me or even visit if it is difficult for them. Not everyone is cut out to care for an elder with dementia, and depending on when it hits, they may need to be working to ensure their own future (savings and SS), plus as we age it becomes difficult to provide care, part time or full time. I can't support my mother's weight and my house is not handicap accessible (ingress/egress and bathrooms are too small to modify), so the best I could do was take over her finances to preserve what she had and then educate myself about dementia, then start seeking a decent place for her. We tried hiring aides and although initially it was only 1 hr/day, it didn't last 2 months - she refused to let them in! The only other real option was a facility. She is close enough now for me to visit regularly (until lock down) and I manage everything else for her. IT is the best I could do to ensure she is safe and cared for.
(1)
Report
First of all, what is her financial situation and what is she planning on doing with her money? And what is YOUR financial situation, and your sister? Are you both willing and able to be. 24 caretakers? What impact is it having on you? Consider placing her where she is cared for. Also gather full facts what it would cost if she had a full time caretaker. When you have all the facts, you will see better what your options are. If the money is there, whoever takes care of her s should most definitely receive a great deal more money. Sit down with the family so you are all on the same page and discuss this - but something must be done now. Before YOU are destroyed.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

I take care of my dad who has Dementia and is 84 yrs old. I have never thought of charging him for my services which includes the laundry, food, rides to the doctor, etc. My parents (mom deceased), have always been there for me, washed my clothes, bought my clothes, food, encouraged me, supported me, even through college and grad school. Without them I certainly could not have made it. They were ALWAYS by my side and loved me unconditionally. It is absurd for me to even think of charging. No, I didn't ask to be here, but since I came some 56 years ago, I was always well taken care of. I don't feel obligated to take care of my father, I consider it a pleasure. That's the least I could do. If I am the longest to live, I don't want to have any regrets.
Your mom's money should take care of her personal needs, items, clothing, food, meds, doctor visits, bills, etc. After all, didn't you volunteer to take her in? I'm reminded of gospel recording artist Pastor Shirley Ceasar's song: NO CHARGE, maybe tou ahoukd listen to it. It goes on to say..."When you add it all up the total cost of real love(parents/children's love) is NO CHARGE."
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
lealonnie1 Jun 2020
What's truly 'absurd' about your comment is that you obviously don't see the OP cannot work b/c her parent requires 24/7 care. Who pays YOUR bills since it's so unthinkable for you to be charging your father for his care based on a 'gospel song'? Obviously you can't work or bring in an income......so.....is your life free of charge, your food, your home, your heat & electric?
Ridiculous to hit 'post' without taking reality into consideration.
(6)
Report
See 2 more replies
There’s not enough info here to comment. In my situation I have a number of siblings but I am the only one involved caring for both parents who are nearly 90. They live independently but need a fair bit of help with meals, meds, appts etc. They gift me $900 per month. In my country gifts from parents are tax free. My siblings know of the arrangement. In all honesty, any family where just one or two children step up to the plate to care for parents, there should be compensation. It keeps resentment at bay. If my parents were to hire outside care, they would have to pay $35 per hour. When my dad learned of this he wanted to give me more but I declined.
If I were an only child that would be a whole other scenario of course. Having multiple siblings who are not involved in the actual care changes things considerably. There was a time when I was criticized by one sibling for caring ‘too much’ when I was providing regular updates. I just don’t provide updates any longer and things are more peaceful.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
Carolsue Jun 2020
I agree with your thinking. The job ought to be devided among all children. But,it never is.with me it would depend on what my parent had.my mom will be 102 this Wednesday. The 500 would take most of her check.she gets 800.she couldn't do any better with her retirement. Only my dad worked and he didnt make enough to give them much of a retirement. She didnt drive. 6 kids.but to be honest I dont recall any of my friends moms who worked back then.Dad died in 93.mom I'm sure never dreamed shed live this long,but she has so I deal with it,with help from 2 of my kids and one sons girlfriend. Shes still at home. But if a parent can afford it they ought to pay the ones that help them and leave the ones who don't 0 in their will.just some thoughts I was thinking as I was reading all this.its a hard job regardless.
(2)
Report
Is this money for you and your sibling or really to pay her expenses? She should directly be paying her own expenses! It's a lot of work to provide elder care but it should NOT be costing you ANYTHING.

Is she still handling her own finances? Is anyone joint on her checking account? Is she still competent? You say she can't be left alone so....?

How is her will structured? Is it an equal share between all children?

I can not advise on the nitty gritty of how to get paid for providing care without running into trouble like someone mentioned that this could be determined to be a gift if she ever needs gov't care.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter