How many people will be ruined before lockdowns end?

My biggest beef is the lack of finding Lysol wipes, Lysol sprays, and for a couple of months not finding any masks. I started my search back in January, finding those items not on the shelves, when I read that there was mystery pneumonia in China, and I thought, it isn't going to be good if it not contained. Some were sounding the alarm but it fell on deaf ears.... [sigh].

I was never afraid the the seasonal flu because I had my flu shot for the past 30 years. Never afraid of getting shingles as I had the vaccine shot/booster. Same with the pneumonia shot/booster. I remember as a kid getting the small pox vaccine. Same with the polio shot, as so many children my age were getting polio before the vaccine was created. That was a very scary time.

But there is NO vaccine for the C-19 as of yet. One would have thought there would have been a SARS type vaccine already out there.... am I missing something here? That vaccine could be altered to include the C-19. I know, easier said then done.

I finally got my C-19 test. Now one would think these tests were everywhere, but they are not. No outdoor lines anywhere in my area for testing. I live in the Washington DC burbs and finally my primary doctor got special kits. These kits will tell me if I am positive.... if I already had the C-19 virus... and what are my risks. Oh, my doctor is one of the few to get these tests, and she fought like crazy to obtain them. Geeze, all doctors should be able to get them. What is wrong with this picture.

I am still working from home because there are still people who are not paying attention that there is a very contagious virus out there, my boss is one of them. My sig other works at a cemetery had one C-19 burial... the family was told to limit to 10 people, did they? No, they had a crowd of people there. Few weeks later, another person from that family died from the virus, and 2 more are quite sick.... instant replay at the burial.

We need to pay attention to how New Zealand had stopped the virus. When the 1st case arrived, the powers-that-be took notice. Stay at home was mandatory, and everything shut down. Testing was done big time. It worked. Now the country is going back to work.

This is such a political play. It actually is sad that we the people are being used to try and destroy an ELECTED PRESIDENT!

I just lost all respect for our governor, whom I thought was a pretty intelligent guy and didn't play politics, but apparently the park and recreation pools need to be opened before other businesses. What?

I don't understand opening facilities that obviously can not accommodate masks or social distancing and not letting small businesses open for business without a host of requirements, when they are finally allowed to open.

Politicking has caused politicians to lose their minds.

Stay safe as you navigate back into life everyone.

Wondering why we aren't following Switzerland with their very successful actions.

IF this were as deadly as we are being led to believe, why are essential workers still reporting to work rather than quitting their jobs? I believe if the numbers were as deadly as all that, surely places would be forced to shut down, not because the government told them to, but because of employees simply not showing up, even those deemed essential. Because it wouldn't be worth it to go to work, no matter what your job or how much you make, or would it? On the flip side, I think deep down people know on some level that it's being exaggerated, which is why the above is not happening. Hence, why those who are healthy are also upset about not being able to work when the risk outweighs the statistical probability of dying from the virus, but a very real risk of becoming homeless and hungry presents itself the longer the lockdowns continue.

I agree with SnoopyLove, the politicians are afraid of the flack that they'll get if they do come out and state that the cure is worse than the disease at this point.

This is such a crazy time. At my house, we are saying, "There are no right answers. Only variations of wrong ones."

Trying to balance physical, financial, and mental health with a one-size-fits-all (quarintine) approach just can't work long term. We have to find a middle ground that will allow the best options for the most people. For myself, I'm voting for reopening businesses that are not in a hotspot. I'm hesitant to reopen big venues such as sports arenas and concert venues . I also think that masks should be expected in those businesses and that businesses should be allowed to refuse entrance to those who don't want to comply (I understand some people can't wear a mask).

I'm from GA and we started opening some businesses a couple weeks ago. We have been opening more as time has gone on. I went grocery shopping yesterday. In the same shopping center there is an Old Navy (curbside pickup), Ross (closed), and Marshalls (open). It was a drive-by observation so I don't know what restrictions Marshalls might have in place. But, I do know that I would rather be working for Marshalls or Old Navy so I'd have a chance to pay the bills.

So far, the Georgia COVID numbers haven't increased dramatically. What will be interesting is what will happen if the numbers do start going up again. Imagine trying to shut down what has been reopened.

My husband is self-employed and has tried for weeks to apply for unemployment. The website is confusing and no definitive word yet if he will be approved. He hasn't had a paycheck in two months. We've planned for this but our savings are going quickly. We want and need to get back to work!!! Thankfully, we did get the stimulus check but nothing for our 17 year old (like a teenage boy doesn't eat much?)

I do think that the cure is worse than the virus at this point. Sadly, people are going to get sick. Even worse, some of those will die. It's not what anyone would choose but it is reality. But, the financial and emotional impact is affecting everyone.

One last thing.

I am not worried about dying from a virus with a 99% survival rate. I’m younger and healthy. I trust that if I get the virus, I’ll survive. There’s zero reason to worry about dying of it as a healthy 39 year old.

As it stands there is a higher chance I will die of something else. Here’s what’s happening in California. We are setting criminals free so that they won’t get the virus while incarcerated. Bail is set to $0 so that everyone is released and not kept in jail. The county jail here, several hours ago, released a man who was arrested for DUI and drugs and who almost killed people while driving the wrong way down the highway. Less than 10 minutes after he was RELEASED, he walked to the hospital next to the jail and carjacked a woman. He strangled her 11 year old child (child survived) and stole her car! He caught after a short pursuit. This just happened within the last HOUR.

how privileged you are if catching COVID 19 is your biggest worry.

I'm afraid I agree with most of this. Even places that were supposedly doing so great, such as China and South Korea, are suffering outbreaks again now.

At least my county in CA, San Mateo County, is now easing the SIP restrictions somewhat as of May 18th. This is all to the good, but I am now thinking the cure IS worse than the disease.

I guess the problem is, how does any elected official or health authority get out of this without admitting lots of people will die and that that has to be endured because the alternative outcome for society as a whole will be even worse?

The cure IS already worse than the disease. Statistically speaking someone my age has a greater chance of dying in a car accident. Should I turn in my drivers license? Stay home unless it’s close enough to walk?

simply put, I’m looking out for my family first. I’m not going to stay home anymore. I’m not going to sacrifice my mental health and my families livelihood so the elderly can live longer. I’m going to learn to live with the virus. If you all want to shelter in place forever, go ahead. But life is going on for the rest of us. Death is inevitable. We are going to die whether we stay home forever or not. I’m not going to stay home and miss out on valuable time with my loved ones anymore. This virus isn’t bad as they want us to think. The numbers are inflated. The predictions have been wrong.

we can’t possibly know that “very few of us can’t wear masks”. That’s simply an opinion. It’s not fact. “Some people can’t wear masks” is true and factual.

those who are high risk should stay home. The healthy should not. If you’re high risk, protect yourself by staying home. We quarantine the sick not the healthy.

Half the cases in my county are migrant field workers who aren’t social distancing on or off the job. Should we shut down the agriculture industry too?

🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑

I think the real question we all need to answer is how can we, individually, change our behavior to slow the rate of infection. The virus is unlikely to be eradicated and we will be living with this for a long time. There are small things and bigger things that individuals can do to end the lock down more quickly. If we don't change our behaviour this is only going to happen again, maybe sooner than anyone expects. Do you really want to do this a second time? And we need to change some of our behaviours forever to keep it from happening again in the future.

1) Do not go out for any non-essential items, and really decide what essential means. People in my neighborhood go out for all manner of non-essential items (such as that $6 Starbucks carry-out coffee or a badly needed hair cut.) Essential has a whole new meaning when someone might have to be hospitalized or die because you wanted it.
2) Do not put others at risk. WEAR YOUR MASK. VERY few people cannot wear masks - children under 2 years old, people with severe breathing problems, people who cannot remove the mask without assistance, and some autistic individuals who cannot tolerate the face covering. And it would seem even more important for the rest of us to wear our masks to protect these people. 3) Identify areas of high spread and take steps to stop the spread. For the meat-packing plants, close them until the community spread is under control. Then those workers can go back to work and not worry about their health and their families. For me I've stopped eating meat in order to lessen demand for meat products. Yes, I like meat but not enough to have someone die for me. For buildings with elevators have then=m pre-programmed to stop at every floor so their is no "touch" to push elevator buttons. Small things can help. 4) Keep your distance. Easy to do. Don't crowd, don't push, don't touch. We all were taught to keep our hands to ourselves and to "don't touch" when we were in kindergarten. 5) Be generous. I use Instacart for shopping and tip really, really well because what I tip may be what my shopper uses to buy groceries for their family that day. I do curbside pickup from small businesses to help keep them alive. I try to be generous since I do have some extra money right now.

This is not a temporary situation and parts of our life and culture will change forever. My family will be changed forever. I have children who are essential workers in a hospital and come home every evening to their own personal decontamination situation before they can greet their toddlers. Another child has a small business that has been adversely impacted and the 4 employees are trying very hard to keep the business together. BUT all of them primarily want to keep their families safe. And they need your help.

The cure is only worse than the disease if you and your family are not counted among the dead or permanently crippled by this.

nothing is worse than being dead. Who will choose to knowingly cause the death of other people?

N95 masks work. Medical masks do not, homemade masks do not. Non N95 do reduce the amount of virus in the air...but not eliminate.

until we have wide spread testing we cannot know that we ourselves do not carry this.

people are dying at the rate of 10 fully loaded Boeing 747 each day! Think we would be hearing people demand the right to fly to Vegas if this was an epidemic of plane crashes daily? Think we would be demanding that people return to working onboard?

the solution is NOT To knowingly up the body counts.

so let’s ask that same question another way....How many people must needlessly die because lockdowns were removed in haste? If you are willing to count yourself among them...why would you insist to take a great many others with you?

Bottom line for me - living in constant fear (yes, some of it media perpetuated imo) is not living at all. Caution and common sense, yes. But I don't believe that quarantining the healthy, who also need to eat and have a place to live, is a good solution. I wonder too how many of the numbers are accurate - so many theories out there as to numbers being doctored/increased for the various agendas of some, that it's hard to know what to believe.

I went shopping today (mask firmly in place) and took special notice that much less than half the shoppers were also wearing masks. They may not care about themselves, fine, they have a right to do so....but for people, such as myself who are still immunocompromised, I get a little hot under the collar when I see them blithely buying things and touching EVERYTHING and nothing that is even remotely essential.

I have mixed feelings about how this has all been handled. But, b/c of my health, I stay home most of the time. Supreme depression is the result.

I know we have had almost double the number or suicides than COVID related deaths. How can THAT be good? And I am glad that my neighbor kicked her abusive husband out right before the quarantine. I did ( and do!) worry for her safety. Have a friend in the police force and he said most of their calls these days are for DV. Again--how is that helping ANYONE?

Lisa

I live in SW Jersey. My daughter had no problem with unemployment but that could be because we are less populated here than in the North. My Gson works for Jet.com and they are considered essential as is his Mom and stepdad. We r lucky since we r retired so our income has not been effected. What I see coming is a rise in taxes, like said layoffs, people losing their houses in a market of already abandoned homes. Manufactures trying to make up losses by raising prices. Meat shortages, etc. I am not looking forward to what is coming.

NY, going off your reply to me below. The unintended consequences here are going to be devastating and it will definitely takes years or decades to repair the damage.

heres something most people aren’t considering either. It’s something that will likely happen in a lot of places and affect our safety & well being.
My husband’s job is secure in that he won’t be laid off. He’s been with the city 25 years. He’s going to be losing a couple hundred dollars a month from his take home pay when the city forces his union in to an unfair contract. And now he’s also going to take pay cut because of the pandemic which means I will have to look for a job in a terrible job market. This is scary. Because of the nature of his job and lack of family help With child care, i am limited in what hours I can work. We may not be able to keep our house. Kids won’t be able to play sports anymore. These shutdowns are coming at a huge economic cost to cities and counties across the country. My city has frozen all open positions and there will be layoffs, furloughs and paycuts across the board. Basically what happened here in 2009 is about to repeat itself. Due to a dire financial crisis, there were layoffs and paycuts and we ended up with a severely understaffed police department. Officers were forced to work insane amount of over time which led to extreme burnout and lots of people calling in sick which meant someone else to work overtime to cover for them. We had trouble retaining officers because they went to work for other agencies that paid the same or more, had a lower cost of living and less workload. Crime went through the roof. Special units like the narcotics division and traffic enforcement were eliminated and everyone was sent to work patrol. Drug abuse & drug sales went up. Car accidents/traffic fatalities increased. We are a population of 150,000. We averaged 50 murders a year for about 8 years. Over the last 2-3 years, as staffing levels increased, we were able to reduce the murder rate drastically. We went down to 10 murders last year. Shootings went from 100 to 52.

And you know what HAS gone up steadily during this time? Homelessness. Many of our homeless are mentally ill or addicts. We have tent cities here. Our first murder this year was a young woman who stabbed by a mentally ill homeless man! She was just walking down the street.

we have had 2 homicides (shootings) in the last 2 weeks. We have had multiple shootings. After months of quietness, the violence is ramping up AGAIN! In my county which is a population of 450,000 we had 2 fatal accidents over the weekend and several major injury accidents. All involving DUI drivers.

Once these pay cuts happen, we will again be unable to retain officers. There will early retirements. Officers lost to other departments and officers that make career changes.

And we, the citizens will suffer. We will not be safe anymore.

Lives will always be at risk. And some risks will dramatically increase as a result of the shut downs.

someone on Facebook posted that they applied for unemployment March 25th and has yet to be approved. Being told to check status on line only to be told to call phone number to be told of over abundance of calls ahead of them, check status online. This is in New Jersey. We have been working, my husband has been in business for 40 years in the HVAC industry we don’t know what the future holds. It’s a family business and it’s been hard. I feel bad for the small businesses that have already failed.

If people aren't working our government collects no taxes. How do people think the social programs get paid for? Even the $1200 "tax relief" payment made me shake my head: thanks for giving me back some of my own money.

Everything is pretty clear -- in hindsight. What should have happened is the most vulnerable should have been very strictly quarantined immediately. In no way is there going to be 0 deaths from this virus, ever. So we must live with the fact that some people will die from it (and I don't say this flippantly since my own MIL is in a facility where they just had a breach and now 3 that they know of have the virus). In order to fully protect the residents, NHs cannot have ANY outside visitors, since this is the variable that matters. But how do you stop facility or hospital employees from mingling with others, who mingle with others, who mingle with others indefinitely? Asking them to do so would be cruel and totally untenable.

As long as there's no way to inoculate against getting the virus in the first place, vulnerable people will always be at risk. I'm thinking the herd immunity plan is the only realistic one. If the same amount of people will be victim of the virus under a slow-release from the lockdown as opposed to citizens all going about our normal business tomorrow, why not take the faster path? Now we know that ventilators aren't the all-important tool "experts" thought it was. A vaccine is years away and will only partially protect, so it's not a short-term solution. Let the least-at-risk people go about life. I just heard that CA extended its lockdown. Right now the cure is worse than the disease.

P.S. my son who works at a Mayo lab says the virus is so small that the N95 masks are not failsafe and should not be counted on as 100% defense (or offense).

I read an article yesterday by Dr Scott Atlas saying the cure is now worse than the disease.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6155927014001?fbclid=IwAR378FgoOfAEZ0oosq9Kou71QiYSvn7_E3C7ozilOz5swVvkZJ70enNFvyk#sp=show-clips

He's referring to the fact that nobody is going to the doctor for treatment of cancer, which is diagnosed at 150K cases per month in the USA. People have stopped going for chemo. Radiation. Pap smears. Surgeries they need. Everything. Everyone is afraid to contract The Virus if they go to the doctor or the ER or the hospital. So, after the country re opens, how long will it take to get an appointment? How back logged will the doctors be at that point with all of us having to wait for treatments? I myself have a procedure that needs to be done but has been postponed.

Yes, the consequences are dire here. I am 63 in July; I did quit my job at the Memory Care where I was a receptionist after a paramedic said he felt sorry for me because I was a 'sitting duck'. My husband has kept his job, but he's due to retire in December. I can collect early SSI, so that will replace the income I was making at my PT job. So Yeah, I can stay home; I can (and do) wear a mask when I go out. I don't have a young family to worry about like many do. I don't know what will happen as the country re opens and people get back to mingling, etc.

I can only hope and pray that a vaccine comes out sooner rather than later, and the people who want to get it are able to, and that it has no adverse side effects. And that, in the meantime, strides are made with treatments to lessen the severity of the symptoms. An autopsy was performed on a woman who died in March, and it turns out her heart burst from the virus attacking it. We need treatment, we need a vaccine, a cure, something.

But for L.A. to have their quarantine extended until August...........come on! What are people going to DO? Most do not have savings for more than a month or two in the bank! What happens to their kids, their mortgage, the car payments? All of it. It's frightening to think about. And like Worried said, working in an 'essential' job in the grocery store is ridiculous! Not an option.

The virus itself is scary enough. But now, the future of our country is feeling even scarier as these quarantines get extended. I like what you're saying about finding creative ways of getting businesses back open and people back to work safely.

And I like Worried's question about if masks work, why can't all businesses open and everyone be allowed back to work? I read another article which said if EVERYONE wore masks ALL the time, we'd stop the pandemic cold. That's not going to happen b/c of 'freedom' and 'rights' and all that, but hey, if it helps us to reopen the country faster, why not give it a try?

PS, my response below is directed to the folks in my area, the ones on Facebook in the FB groups & comments section of the news FB pages. They are the ones pissing me off. This forum has actually been a safe space during this time for the most post. I truly hope what I said hasn’t offended anyone! It’s the comments coming from folks in my own community that I am tired of. There is little to no empathy and compassion for the small business owners who have been forced to close permanently, for the folks who lost their jobs & health insurance and who are on the brink of a life of poverty. It’s just sad to see :(

If masks work, why can’t all businesses open & everyone who wants to go back to work be allowed to work?

How many businesses have to close permanent before you all feel safe?

how many families have to lose everything and end up on the street for people to feel safe?

Why do so many people refuse to acknowledge that the unintended consequences are serious and must be dealt with? This virus isn’t going anywhere.

I have to think that those who don’t care what happens as long as they die from the virus are pretty privileged and have never hit rock bottom or had their livelihood at stake. I don’t for one minute think that most people would be ok living in a tent under a bridge or on the side of the highway when this is all over with! Because that’s where a lot of folks will end up thanks the economy we’ve just destroyed. Evictions and foreclosures won’t be halted forever.

Mortgages and rents haven’t been cancelled in the US. I am sick and tired of people twice my age, living in paid off homes with a secure income saying that the working folks with families to support are selfish for thinking about their mental health & financial well being. This virus is deadly but has a high survival rate amongst those that are younger and healthy. This current way of life is simply not sustainable.

Sorry not sorry but my family comes first. I care more about our financial well being in the long run than I care about saving the elderly who have already lived twice as long as me. I don’t want ANYONE to die if this virus but my family and our well being come first.

We have over 30 million people newly unemployed and a very poor job market. And I am sick and tired of people who have NOT been affected by the pandemic financially, telling the unemployed that the grocery stores are hiring! That’s not the solution, it’s a show of ignorance. If it’s ok to work in a crowded grocery store where not everyone is wearing a mask and social distancing, it’s safe to work anywhere else if you wear a mask and take every necessary precaution! It’s not about “essential vs non-essential” and if you think it’s ok to work in a grocery store because it’s essential, well you are a SHEEP! All jobs are essential because earning a living is a essential and there many many jobs that are much safer to perform than a job working in a grocery store. And you don’t need an “essential” reason to go to the store. Target, Lowe’s, Home Depot, Costco and Wal-Mart are open because they sell essentials (and plenty more non-essentials). There is nothing to stop someone from going to Costco to buy a new TV, Home Depot for patio furniture, Target for new summer clothes, Wal-Mart for pool toys and finish the day with a stop at Starbucks for a frappaccino! None of that is “essential” is it?

yep overdoses are are. Suicides are up. And in many cities including mine violent crime is up.

Yet....despite flattening the curve and reaching the goals.....some governors keep moving the goal post further away and for what? There is no science to support moving the goal posts. Hospitals here are empty and health care workers have been sent to the unemployment line. And the shut downs keep getting extended when our numbers don’t justify it.

You are absolutely right, on everything.
2 months of strict lockdown had a meaning and we all obeyed thinking that governments were working on a real strategy, in getting masks, tests and use some common sense.
Putting all the weight on people's shoulders and locking people indefinitely because they couldn't come up with any of these is just criminal.

Many thoughts of strength and resistance for you from Europe
x Arwen

Agreed!!!  We also have to look at mental health. People were not meant to live in isolation.   Overdoses are up. 

I am not going out, I am 66 YO and primary caregiver for my 100YO mom, but I don't begrudge younger people getting out, using precautions as best they can.