Sorry, I am back again. I just spent the better part of my evening driving my MIL with my wife around because she could not sleep. I ended up crying in my car afterwards. I want out of this. My wife still is struggling with the idea of placing her mother. We toured a bunch of places but the only places her and my MIL liked were the ones that were criminally overpriced, one placed wanted 12k a month.
I thought about divorce and spoke to attorneys it is cheaper to keep her. I just want to ghost. I am in a dark place, I feel trapped. Cannot really talk to people about this because I always get reminded remember your vows.
I did all I could to try and get my her placed, my wife refuses because she is doing well. Great she is but I am going f**king mad. Life is sick joke, it does not pay to be a good person because no one f**king cares about you.
There were four siblings in my mom’s family. Her family, and the extended family that lived around were tyrannical. The other siblings ran—and had lives; my mother was the one who “helped” her parents, also known as “looking after them” or “taking care of them.” Like it’s no big deal.
The parents were ALWAYS my mother’s number one priority. They were both in bad health, and my mother spent all her time at their home cooking and cleaning, at the hospital with her mother, mother came to live with them for a long time before it got really bad… then my mother put her mom into an apartment near their home and cared for her until my mother placed her in assisted living/NH.
This totally consumed my mothers life. Her focus was never on her marriage, or on her own children, but always on her parents— supposedly out of necessity because they were sick.
I have spent an incredible amount of time thinking about this, and what should have been different. One main conclusion I have come to is that my mother never had “decision control” in this relationship. She was always the little daughter running around behind her parents to try to make them “happy”. Her parents never thought a second about whether it was right for them to consume all of her time and energy. They even suggested at one time that my mother moved in with them, because her family was self-sufficient, and she wasn’t needed there. (!)
I had always considered this to be a cultural issue, but it may be a religious issue, and the expectations might come from there. Or maybe it is just what happens when you come from poverty.
No matter what, the mindset is very IMMATURE. It was immature and irresponsible for my grandparents to expect that from my mother, and it was immature for my mother to give that kind of over-the-top care. She destroyed herself with it, and to a great degree destroyed all her other family relationships.
My mother did not help her parents. She was their servant. Big difference.
I have several friends who have abnormally close relationships with their mothers. That is a destroyer of marriages.
The point I want to make is that I come from two generations of experience with this, and what I see is that your wife is being an immature servant to an immature mom with wrong expectations. Just like in my own family. My dad retreated into his office, but handled all the big financials and estate planning, etc. for his in-laws. and he was forced to structure his career around the care of my moms parents.
And this part is important too— my dad‘s well balanced, well, educated, highly competent parents got totally left in the dust. There was NO attention or care given to my dad‘s parents. I don’t know a lot about them, as they lived in another town, so maybe there was a tough relationship there, too. But what I know is that the people who were very good at taking care of their own needs ended up in a very bad place, with zero support from children, because it was all being poured out on my mother’s parents.
I think you both need to go into counseling, especially so that your wife learns healthy boundaries.
Short term… my mother put mother into an apartment near our home. You can hire companion care people to come in at about $30 an hour to do light housekeeping/cooking. Or, I know people who have hired a live-in. This would likely be cheaper than the kind of care center you would need.
Are there siblings? Where are they?
I am only sharing my personal story because it resulted in a total train wreck for two generations. I have thought a lot about this because I want something different for my children. I have been forced to make many very difficult decisions. It is hard, sadly.
Many points you raise have given me much to think over.
I also know women with abnormally close relationships with their Mother who ceased to stay married.
I have also wondered over the cultural, religious or financial reasons behind this 'daughter as servant' pattern.
Yet I have seen it accross many cultural backgrounds, dfferent religions (or atheists) & different financial situations too. I've come to believe those may be factors but not THE whole driver.
A lovely women I befriended was in this daughter-servant role but blind to it. She was 'on call' for her older folks. Not religious, 5th gen so no real 'other' culture, very comfortably well off moneywise. Demanded daughter be the *help*. The cook, cleaner, chauffer. Demanded she come clean their bathroom accident on a Sunday morning. It appeared an ego booster to be able to say their 40 yo daughter still obeyed them..? The woman had been so conditioned that when I asked what would happen if she said no, she had no words. As you say, no "decision control".
As part of your marriage you both have to have priorities and also be spending quality time together. If she does not want the same thing as you and her priority is her mother then it’s better to divorce now even if it is costly unfortunately. You can’t put a price on happiness and every day is gift not to be wasted.
It sounds like she is controlling the situation and the marriage which is not a partnership.
she is not recognizing you or respecting you and your needs in this relationship. If that does not change then make the choice to change your situation.
there are lots of articles and books on relationships and happiness -please google if you have time.
Remember in a healthy relationship your partner should hear you out if you are upset and their goal is make changes to avoid upsetting you again in the future(find a meet in the middle solution) , not to debate whether you should be upset to begin with.
Your feelings are not up for debate.
Make choices and make change.
You need to be her priority. I am from a second-gen immigrant family. Cultural mismatch is a killer.
everyone wants a resort hotel to retire into at the end of life. Almost none of us get it. IMO, a low-end NH would work fine if your wife is committed to providing extra support there. Really. And Medicaid would pay!! Not sure why you are even looking at self-pay places when mother is on Medicaid. Self-pay in a NH is either a short-term solution, or only for the VERY rich.
They are expensive because they are paying five trained staff people for what you and your wife are trying to do alone.
To a degree their is an aspect of entitlement, she does feel her mother should have the best care, in general she feels our elderly should get the best care across the board, we have no excuse not to give them the best,
It is a long story.
A. 100% healthy
B. Under someone else's care, whether it be another relative, hired caregivers, or a nursing home
C. Dead
Where I live, an emegency service was set up yo trial during Covid - video triage attached to a major hospital. Reported to be very sucessful so now being rolled out elsewhere. Website says will triage, advise whether to call EMS for immidiate transport, family take patient direct to ER, or more minor issue to see a Doctor soon or ask a Pharmacist. Collected triage info sent direct to next service, hospital, Doctor etc to save time.
Now I would never suggest bloating up symptoms or lying to make a situation sound ER worthy. (Those health heros have lifes to save).
But I would suggest speaking up.
Your distress is real. I don't know if your wife is fine or not. If she is stressed/depressed, angry, sad or what. But if the BURDEN of care is too much - it is OK to say so. To seek help. (Start with your general Doctor for advice).
Even pleasantly confused elders get brought to ER for query UTI or stroke. Frequent fallers are brought for falls investigation.
ER is not a solution, but in a crises can give a small breathing space.
An vulnerable confused elder is better dropped off at a hospital than left to wander the streets & be hit by a car (as my neighbour was).
I had three children under five and a full time job, but I cannot imagine the stress of this.
Does the mother have any money of her own? Social Security or pension? Inheritance? Can you hire help, either for housework or an aide? It seems very risky to me to allow anything to disturb your sleep. If your work or your health suffers, or heaven forbid you have an accident, this whole house of cards comes tumbling down.
Then, allow the house of cards to fall down. That’s the only way that his wife will take him seriously and learn to acknowledge that it isn’t his job to care for her mom.
I am only 6 weeks in taking care of my father and I do NOT see any end in site at this point.
Everyone has their opinions and what they would do in my situation but until you are the one in it and it is your parent you can't 100% understand.
I can only imagine how your wife is struggling with making these types of decisions. I struggle since my dad is mentally 100% and can voice all his opinions too.
I have to be able to live with all the choices we make and for me, worrying about my dad in a nursing home is at this time not something I can live with considering he was physically and mentally abused after being in rehab for 5 days.
Hang in there
When she was sundowning we would give 200 mg at 4 pm and 200 mg at 6 pm.
Other times we gave 400 mg at 6 pm and Mom would go to bed at 8.
Make sure to use glycinate version to prevent loose stool.
"The benefits of magnesium glycinate
Magnesium glycinate has been shown to have a variety of benefits, including helping to:
relieve anxiety
promote bone health
manage blood sugar in people with diabetes and may lower the risk of developing type 2 diabetes
maintain regular heart rhythms
reduce symptoms of premenstrual syndrome (PMS)
amplify exercise performance
reduce pain"
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/magnesium-glycinate#benefits
It only helps if one has an actual deficiency. What is your source that says it does anything for sleep?
Your MIL is a candidate for MC. As long as she is up and walking around (regardless of her cognitive state) she is MC and not LTC ready.
This is why it'd be helpful if you posted what state you are in. Some states, like Michigan, do cover some custodial care (like AL). But most do not. Until you know this, it is a waste of your wife's time to tour Medicaid facilities if she's not assessed for LTC need. Then she'd have to also qualify financially, but that part seems like she's already there.
Please consider hiring an in-home aid. Maybe the condition is that the aid comes during the day so that your wife gets a break but also gets a job to cover for this expense. Your wife can also consider a WFH job, like customer service. Maybe you need to have a financial planner crunch the numbers to show your wife that financially it is unsustainable to keep paying for your MIL's care.
Care.com, or
Check local agencies. Get referrals for agencies or caregivers on Nextdoor.com
Hiring aids privately (meaning not through an agency) often makes you an employer in the eyes of your state's Dept of Rev. You don't need this complication. Agencies also do background checks and provide subs when their employee is sick or on vacation.
In Jan 2023 I was searching for a facility for my 100-yr old Aunt who had fallen and broken her hip. She had advanced dementia as well. Even with her broken hip she was still attempting to get out of bed and walk (which is how she broke her hip in the first place) while still in the rehab. Because she was still "mobile" I was having a hard time with the placement decision and finding the "right" type of care/facility for her. Mercifully she passed in her sleep the day before she was to be interviewed by a facility rep.
If your MIL doesn't have any other health problems (like my Aunt) and only memory issues, she may not be LTC eligible for a long time. My Aunt started having noticeable dementia in her late 80's, so about 12 years before she passed. Just boring you with this story so that you understand how long this can go on for and hoping it will motive your WIFE to come to a different perspective and for you to have very clear and strong boundaries.
I wonder if this codependency now with the mother is a way for her to stay at home and not face her own issues . The thread also mentioned the wife not being able to handle the mother being on Medicaid . Poor OP is being milked supporting both of them . Unless things start changing with the mother being placed , I would not blame OP for leaving and filing for divorce.
If you think that your wife is effectively being controlled by her mother, it may be that taking her to a Counselor could help sort this out. A couple of counseling sessions are a lot cheaper than a divorce. If your marriage started off with love, it might be worth checking this option. Perhaps leaving for a week or two will help to make your wife take seriously the possibility of a divorce, and then try this option first.
Then again, it may be healthy close bond they share. With long held family/cultural traditions to always care for elders. The Wife may simply WANT to provide a home & care for her Mother HERSELF.
This is her choice.. based on her morals & values. Yet choices have consequences.
Yes, indeed, private pay for some nursing homes are ridiculously expensive at about $120,000.00 a year.
When people tell you to “remember your vows”, you should let them know that when you took those vows they were meant for you and your wife and not for your MIL.
Since your wife doesn’t want to place her mother in a facility, you should step away from this situation and let your wife handle it herself. Tell your wife that this is affecting you mentally and physically and that you will not be helping her to take care of her mother if she does not place her in a facility. It will be a rude awakening for your wife and when she becomes burnt out from taking care of her mother all on her own and she will then agree with you to have her mother placed in a facility.
Wishing you peace.
Your wife is "struggling" placing her Mother? How old are you two? Do you both work full time? How did you get stuck with your MIL living with you? I would tell you to STOP holding your frustration in. You will give yourself a heart attack!
Speaking of VOWS....You must sit wife down and tell her calmly and clearly, she made marriage vows to YOU, not her Mother. That both of you are not medical professionals, that MIL needs 24/7 care that requires 3 eight hour shifts of caregivers. She is cheating her own Mother out of proper care. She made vows to you that didn't include her Mom! She may think Mom is doing great, but that won't last long at all! MIL will get worse as time passes. Wife needs to read up that Alz is a progressive and terminal disease.
You DO NOT PAY for MILs care. She can find a place that will take Medi-Cal when MIL's money rums out. You need your own money for your own care when you get older. Mom has dementia, and will not need a deluxe facility to live! As she gets worse, she won't want to bathe, for starters! Why does your wife think spending $10K.month for MIL's facility is reasonable? Are you filthy rich?
Stop the torture. Tell her to find MIL a place. Board & Care homes are cheaper and MIL gets decent care in a cozy place. Ask your wife to honor her vows she made to you, or you will have to leave her and MIL to fend for themselves. Make it clear you are serious, you are a couple, not a trio. Legally you are not required to financially support MIL. MIL was not in the vows. This isn't fair to you and you are already wearing yourself out.
DON'T BUY the "culture" excuse. You live in America, not Korea. Wife is who is not honoring vows, NOT YOU. So what that MIL is doing good? Alz is a progressive disease. Don't help her with MIL to make her think it's so easy!
See a lawyer about your state laws on alimony. Always smarter to be the Petitioner and throw the first grenade. Give a deadline, and mean it. Tell wife she made vows to YOU, if she can't keep them, you are GONE. Your are not going to pay for MIL, period. Wife is trying to make you pay, knowing you can't....so MIL stays forever. Nice try.
You could be dodging a bullet, instead of going broke for MIL. None of this is fair, period.
My wife's night vision is not that great so she really should not be driving at night. We cut back on the night aides because it was getting a tad expensive, so I help my wife out at night cause I do not want her to do this alone it would not be fair to her.
Call me a sucker, but I still love my wife to pieces. Granted my wife does have a point because she was transparent with me when we got together and married. I just did not think it would happen so soon, or be this bad.
I have a couple of comments - people are telling you " Cannot really talk to people about this because I always get reminded remember your vows.".
Well, what exactly were your vows and what is YOUR thoughts about them? It should not matter what others say. What matters is how much stress and strive do you believe you should go through to stick with your marriage. Thats up to you. As far as the law, divorce can be done for reasonable reasons and this would fit. Whether you stick a marriage out is up to you. If you do, then I agree with others, it should be with conditions. You need to decide what the conditions you will set with your wife will be. However the status quo sounds very bad.
But have you asked your wife to go to marriage counseling ? Perhaps that would open her eyes that this is not working . It is not fair for your wife to put her mother ahead of her spouse .
Your marriage vows are for your marriage between you and your wife . Not for living with her mother . 3 people is not a marriage . Don’t listen to those ridiculous people who spew the “ do the right thing “ type of SH*T .
Stop helping . Stop driving them around. You can quit “ working” for her mother . Your wife does it all for her mother . Do your own laundry , cook your own food. Live like room mates . Detach from this situation .
Have you told your wife that this is seriously not working and killing your marriage , that you feel like running away from this situation ?
I’m so sorry . You may have to tell her you need a break and go on a vacation . Tell her you would like her to come with you , but you are going anyway .
Let your wife know that now that her mother is doing better, it is now time to turn attention back to your marriage and her mother needs to live somewhere else. Tell her that her mother can not live in your home any longer .
Tell your wife that her mother does not have to live with you for her to take care of her . She can visit her at a facility and be her advocate .
You may need to rent a room like Alva suggested to go to for your sanity . Go to the gym etc like already suggested below . Don’t be home a lot .
I’m sorry that a divorce is financially worse than staying , but it may be necessary . Did the lawyer say divorce would be different if it was mutual ?
Perhaps if you stop helping with her mother , your wife will want a divorce .
I would talk to the lawyer about what you can safely do and not do in the marriage to not hurt you in the divorce . You don’t want your wife to garner ammunition .
Do not pay for Assisted Living . You should not be using your money for her mother’s care .
I'd set a lot of boundaries for yourself and simply be unavailable for care. Get a second job to get away if you have to. Get some hobbies. Join a gym and go to work out. Take care of yourself. Join a sports league.
Stay busy and unavailable while you are figuring things out.
PS. I still recommend a cruise.
Look into 4 week cruises. Tell wife you are exhausted from caregiving and you need a break, respite and that you are going to recharge on the 4 week cruise. Invite wife to go with you.
Tell her you can put MIL in a respite facility for 4 weeks so that you all can recharge.
If your wife does not want to go on the cruise then you go solo.
She’s practically holding the door wide open for you to leave, considering her behavior. She shouldn’t expect you to be driving around town with her mom because she can’t sleep due to daylight savings time.
Your wedding vows have nothing to do with caring for in-laws. Its care of each other. You need to learn the word No.
MIL should be paying for her own care. When the money is gone, then its Medicaid. You divorcing does not mean you support MIL too. You should not have to support your wife because she chooses to care for Mom. If she had a job before Mom then she needs to go back to work. There are options for Mom.
I wound up working for Home Instead for $8/hr (in 2002) and wiping elderly people's butts, having walkers thrown at me in rage, and being told my eggs weren't as good as those on the QEII ship. But I was FREE of the torturous life of luxury I was living with a mentally ill man and so were my children.
Who cares how much it may cost you to divorce? Have you actually seen a lawyer? See ANOTHER one if the first one had answers you didnt like. How much is FREEDOM worth?
Give your wife an ultimatum and a deadline. You have until June 1 to get mother placed or I'll file for divorce becuz I cannot and will not live this way any longer. Period.
And to HELL with what other people are telling you! Do what is right for YOU and stop being a doormat for HER.
That is why we say take a vacation first.
Maybe go stay in an extended stay hotel. Your mental health needs this. I give you permission to do it.
I have been where you are and it’s a lonely, soul sucking place.
The idea of renting a room somewhere seems like a great solution. Look around and see what you find. Remind wife that she and her mom might be attached at the hip, but you are not. She can decide if she wants to move on without you or with you. Your conditions are that you contribute no care for mom, and mom leaves your home. You don't care how. That's up to wife.
Since mom and wife are Korean, do they remain Korean citizens? If so, is there a place where mom can be cared for there? A government program, perhaps? I'm mentioning this because I knew someone from an Asian country, and though she lived in the US for many years, when it came time for her to need help in her old age, she returned to that country for care, which was due her because she was still a citizen.
I've seen lovely board and care homes where dementia patients are well cared for. My BIL is in one. Only 8 or so patients, 24/7 care, great food and loving caregivers. It's like living in a family home. There's even a baby grand piano in the living room! Not all dementia care has to be institutional.
If she is on Medicaid you shouldn't be paying out of your own money. Even if you have to settle for a facility that is not ideal, your wife could visit every day and help with her care. That way you could both work and sleep on a normal schedule, and take a breath.
I get that its not just that easy. Everyone on here was telling me to place my mom, who refused to go. The difference is your MIL seems to have dementia if you have to drive her around like an infant to get her to sleep. If this is correct she may not even know who you both are in a few months. And by that time your marriage will be destroyed and you will not be able to keep her safe at home.
I feel awful for your situation. I would press Medicaid HARD for more services, even if placement doesn't work out. Did she "showtime" for the person who came to assess her? If nothing else she should be getting 12/day home care.
Much cheaper, I am thinking, than 12,000 a month.
Then go there. Often.
Tell your wife you have reached your limitations, that you will not force her to place your mom but you will not also serve as chief cook and bottle-washer, driving them about like some sort of sad chauffeur. That you will often be gone; that she will have little help from you in this job she has chosen to take on.
When you need to retire to your own "room of one's own" then go there will a good book or a few movies to watch, go to the gym, go running in the park, take up photography or sculpture.
You have no perfect choices here. It is either leave or live with this. Life has so few perfect choices when you really look at it, right?