I heard my mother gossip about me to my brother and it really hurts. Advice?

Hi NeedHelp2021
My mom has NDP and it was our "normal". Mom was the queen and we were her servants. We, meaning everyone around her. I am in my 60s now and mom has vascular dementia and lives in AL. Now, looking back, in some way I interpreted the abuse as love. Relationships didnt work for me for many years, not knowing why. You have the experience of being in a very unhealthy relationship, and it is no different if the abuser is your mom or husband. Now finally, I have learned to stay clear of anyone who is "mom like". I call the behaviors the "slap and tickle". These people gravitate to me and I shut it down immediately, to preserve myself. I married in my 40s to an emotionally healthy man who loves me with no conditions. No strings. No games. My life is so much more mature now, and moms dementia in some way has brought me closer to her. Her ego is gone, not on the defensive, less angry. And she knows that when I set a boundary there is no negotiating. That is the mature part. Good luck with whatever you decide. Yes pls let us know the outcome. You have received some excellent feedback.

I’m so sorry to hear this for you. Perhaps you need to take sometime off. Meaning, leave the house for a few days, stay with a friend, relatives or check into hotel by yourself. By giving both of you a breathier it’ll give you both time to reflect and appreciate each other. Even if it’s for a day or two.

I can completely relate to the hurt you are experiencing and am so sorry for it. Causing difficulties between siblings is very unhealthy behavior by a parent. Caregiving is a thankless job; I found I needed to have a completely different kind of relationship than I had hoped for with my (narcissistic) mother. I don’t feel close or important to her and I’ve come to learn she loves herself first, so I will never be close or important to her. Because she is so self-indulgent and self-centered, gratitude just doesn’t happen much. I learned not to expect or even hope for it anymore. In short, the only person that is going to change is you; it took me over 50 years to get to the place I am now (I actually feel sorry for my mom-she is missing out on so much)-please don’t take as long as I did!!

You should be living your life without guilt or hurt. Be your own best friend-what advice would you give a friend in this situation? If you are able, I would suggest you find your own place and figure out the boundaries you need to protect your peace. For example, if my mother disparages my father, I cut off or strictly limit communication for a period of time (even though she lives in my spare home right next door). Work on yourself and your self-esteem so that you can live confidently in the life you deserve. I suspect you are good at heart and will step up when needed-but let that action build your self-esteem, give it to yourself rather than hoping someone else will recognize it. It’s hard work, it really is, but I am so happy that I did the work. I feel so much more free and happy. Life is marvelous when you don’t have this kind of weight on you!!!

Sending you peace.

I can completely relate to the hurt you are experiencing and am so sorry for it. Causing difficulties between siblings is very unhealthy behavior by a parent. Caregiving is a thankless job; I found I needed to have a completely different kind of relationship than I had hoped for with my (narcissistic) mother. I don’t feel close or important to her and I’ve come to learn she loves herself first, so I will never be close or important to her. Because she is so self-indulgent and self-centered, gratitude just doesn’t happen much. I learned not to expect or even hope for it anymore. In short, the only person that is going to change is you; it took me over 50 years to get to the place I am now (I actually feel sorry for my mom-she is missing out on so much)-please don’t take as long as I did!!

You should be living your life without guilt or hurt. Be your own best friend-what advice would you give a friend in this situation? If you are able, I would suggest you find your own place and figure out the boundaries you need to protect your peace. For example, if my mother disparages my father, I cut off or strictly limit communication for a period of time (even though she lives in my spare home right next door). Work on yourself and your self-esteem so that you can live confidently in the life you deserve. I suspect you are good at heart and will step up when needed-but let that action build your self-esteem, give it to yourself rather than hoping someone else will recognize it. It’s hard work, it really is, but I am so happy that I did the work. I feel so much more free and happy. Life is marvelous when you don’t have this kind of weight on you!!!

Sending you peace.

Exsister, I understand what you mean about having difficulty acknowledging this bad behaviour. It's very hard to accept that someone who should be loving is in fact not. I'm often struck by how often posters here use the very same phrases I have thought about my own mother. "Her eyes light up" is one such phrase. If there is a hint of anyone disagreeing with me about something, however trivial or even as a joke, she will wade in against me and stick the knife in. Another is " I'm treated more kindly by complete strangers". Sad but true. I think you're right to get your affairs in order and then ship out. You don't need to give any advance warning or explanation. In my experience, the more information you give, the more it is used against you. Good luck!

I am not surprised by this. My mother was the same and once when I was at my brother's I heard her ask how my sister in law was 'coping' with me being there. It told me that I had been discussed in a negative way. I felt very betrayed because I had confided in my mother about the issues I had had and it was obvious she had taken sides and it wasn't my side! As LBD took more of a hold this stuff got worse.
How old is your mother and how is her mental health? x

This sounds a lot like my mother. I have been unwilling to see this until lately. But I recently overheard her laughing and chatting with one of my toxic sisters. She tells me she is afraid of this sister (and with good reason) but her eyes light up when she calls. She also mutters things under her breath about me, calling me "selfish", "b***h"...and saying "she hates (toxic sister)". I have a place to go but need to organise work. Then she can rely on Toxic Sisters to look after her.

If your mom is stable now, start looking for another place to live.

Donto bring up anything, just let her know that since she's better, you'll be moving as soon as you find a place.

Then, just call and visit when you like.

NeedHelp,
I am a bit oversensitive to this kind of behavior, so you will get my knee-jerk reaction to the mother/brother scenario. Make your own plans and leave. Fight the sympathy card your mother is going to use. Try to imagine what she's going to say and think of a response to it before you have the conversation about you leaving. Then GO. There is a difference between being a loving daughter and a loving doormat. I'm mad just thinking about your post.

Needhelp2021, I totally agree with all that has been said here. You mentioned that you wondered if your mother would be like this if she wasn't living in her own home, but if it was your home. I can tell you that she would probably be like this towards you wherever she lived. My mother lives with us in our home and behaves like this. She is moving out for good in January. I have had enough. The apologies after an episode of bad behaviour are a form of control: reeling you back in so she can abuse you again. I empathize with you being upset at seeing her throw away those pictures. My husband found and rescued a load of old photos of me as a child with my grandparents in the rubbish bin that my mother had thrown out. She could have asked me if I wanted them, but she didn't. I felt it was me who had been tossed out with the rubbish.

Don’t be a Cinderella: brothers go out & get a life, with Mom's blessing; while the scullery maid stays home to take care of, and be put down by,
good old Mom. I was one. Don’t put up with it. I learned the hard way that it won’t end until you say “ no more” and mean it.
This has been too common on Planet Earth and it’s time to do away with it! Above all, do NOT live with her. Your life must come first.

I am and was very much aware of this type of behaviors. My advice after caring for my mom 2years/7 months is this: don’t be passive aggressive confront your brother and mom in a calm way because upsetting yourself and trying to have a conversation doesn’t serve you. And as far as the cooking goes, have your brother take mom to his house to cook his favorite meal that isn’t so pleasant smelling and consider it a win win because it will be an outing for mom.
Cheryl
Philadelphia

Leave. Now.

Take a 2 week vacation without ANY contact with her and see how she does without you help.

If your brother does not stick up for you and set your mother straight, save yourself from any more pain.

This is on your brother also.

You are not being mean to walk away - if your mother is forming an alliance with your brother, she will be happy with whatever care she gets from him. Staying will only cause you to suffer. It’s okay to let someone else take over caregiving since they have setup an unhealthy dynamic.

Take care of you ~ you deserve it.

Does your mother still know it's you or does she think you're a hired 'caregiver'? Is your brother in agreement that you are doing your best? Because it might be the case that you need a loooong respite away (or her). Bring her to his house as you are finding that 'she needs him' and now no need to talk on the phone because she could talk to him personally'. Who does the shopping?

"Sometimes strangers are kinder than relatives."

As the saying goes, you can pick your nose, you can pick your seat, but you can't pick your family. However, you CAN choose not to deal with them, at least once you are an adult! You've come to that crossroad in your life, choose the one that will restore your sanity! You KNOW which one is the right road to choose.

"When she becomes ill and needs you she is a totally different person, but as soon as she feels a little better it’s over. She becomes the same selfish person."

Not just selfish, she is USING you. Perhaps it was okay when she was truly ill and needing a lot of help, but now - if she can cook that foul smelling crap, her bed is downstairs, can do laundry, etc, she can fend for herself. If not, she can either try to get your brothers into the fold or hire someone else to abuse. Doubtful brothers will buckle.

"Trust me her apology this time didn’t mean anything to me. I know it’s all fake and she doesn’t mean it.
And truly this time is not like other times.
I can not lie to myself any longer."

MAINTAIN that conviction and follow through! You've been sucked into that game Bugs Bunny would play in Looney Tunes - I dare you to cross that line! She pulls something on you, you try to stand your ground or put her on report, aka draw that line, she becomes contrite, apologizes, walks around on egg shells, then it all slides back into the "normal" that was by stepping over the line. So, you end up continually drawing a new line. It is just too easy for people like your mother to manipulate us, esp those of us who ARE caring people. Push the limit, back off, appear to change, but it is all a charade. If we keep drawing new lines, it will never stop. Make this the last line, only YOU cross it, into a brave new world without your mother!

"She showed who she is. We have not spoken to each other today and I left the house in the morning. If she really was sorry she would at least make an effort. Not that would make any difference in my decision."

Given her track record that you have reported, she may up her game to entice you to stay. Don't buy it. She tries to plead and apologize, you are suddenly deaf. Don't listen, don't react, don't respond, just walk away.

"Its time for me to start living for myself and stop living for her."

Yes. YES!!! Personally I would just make my plans, in private, and follow through. I wouldn't discuss ANY plans with her or anyone else. Hopefully you have employment or some kind of income. Find a place you like and/or can afford. Is any of the furniture yours, such as a bed? Are you attached to any of these? If not, find some you can afford, or thrift shop to find items to tide you over and leave it all behind. Pack up everything you want into your car, announce THAT day you are leaving, and move out. If it won't all fit, pack what you can and take it to the new place, then repeat until you have everything you want/need.
No warning. No time for her to plan HER games. No argument, no false pleading, nothing. I'm leaving and go. You can even leave a list on the table of companies in the area that hire out care-givers, cleaners, etc. But ZERO discussion. Plan the move and implement it.

This is one of those times where it has to be a quick and clean break. If your plan doesn't include any relationship in the future, I would find out if you can get your phone # changed. IF you are receiving any of your own bills at her home, get a PO Box and change all the addresses to that while you are prepping for the move!

New year, new place to live, new YOU! Please do let us know how you are doing and what progress you've made! We like to hear success stories too!!!

Needhelp 2021, this response is to try to help you feel just a little bit better. Your mother is a pain in the neck, all the nasty things are true. There are a lot of people like that, as well as people who talk about EVERYONE behind their back – you can’t trust a word they say. There may be a little bit of love along with the nastiness, some good memories from the past, but that doesn’t help at the time when you hear the badmouthing. I heard my father bad-mouthing me, my husband and my children, when he was staying with us on a visit. He was phoning someone on the other side of the world, on OUR phone, back in the old days when international calls cost a fortune. We had a cockroach plague at the time, and that morning he had caught some outside, then put the squashed roaches on our breakfast plates.

The only thing is that the worst of the pain fades. You don’t need to make it the absolute end of your relationship. We asked my father to leave (this may surprise you), and I’m sure it will help you to leave too. You don’t need a final fight with her or your brother, just go. Stay out of contact for 6 months. Don’t ever go back to live with her, but you will probably find that you can visit without much pain. If you can wait for that, it will probably mean that you can live the rest of your life with less painful memories. I hope so, for your sake!

NeedHelp2021, I think I understand so much more about you, your Mom and your relationship from responses to others below. I honestly would suggest that you get some professional help. Your Mom likely has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder and that is never going to change; is very unlikely to change. Right now you are enabling her in that by being there and doing her bidding, and by being played in all the traditional ways. You are going to have to learn now to advocate for yourself and for your own life. I am so relieved that you live with her, not she with you. This is going to make it easier to make your own life and move out and move on when you choose to.
Remember, the choice is yours. If you stay, eventually you must accept that you have chosen to do so despite having great insight into what is happening here. It will take great COURAGE and not a little help from a professional to move out of the habitual ways of acting and reacting which is "Mom is bad, I get hurt, Mom apologizes, I feel guilty and stay............repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
You will know you are well and surely healed the day you can look at your Mom with compassion and forgiveness and understand that she is a flawed human being giving as much love as she is capable of living. That is her burden in this life; not yours. We have two chances at family. The one we are born to and the one we create out of our own loves moving forward, our own goodness, our own chosen loved ones. It is truly your choice. This is not in your Mom's hands. It is in your hands. Please get help however you are able. Hard work, but you will be so glad and so proud of yourself in every step forward to unwind yourself from this web you and your Mom create together daily.
My very best to you. You are clearly smart and intuitive; I know you can do this when you decide you want to. This isn't an act of cruelty or revenge upon your poor Mom whose deficits you cannot change. This is an act of self love, and you will have all the more love to give to Mom and to others you choose to love in future.

Sorry that you are in the middle of this situation, but you have now heard "her truth."

Does your mother still need you to care for her?

Seems your mother feels it is not a problem to speak ill of you to others. You are hurt because you care and you have sacrificed time for her care. At the least, she should respect you. She doesn't.

I suggest it is time to start moving into a more independent life from each other. You deserve better treatment; go find it with people who nurture you.

I believe she has narcissistic personality disorder

Read about narcissism. This is your mother. There is not a thing you can do about it, but decide to stay and take it (((( she will NEVER change )))) or leave and take your sanity with you. Seriously, I encourage you to really think about leaving.

My mother always talked about others behind their backs. One day I realized, she probably talks about me, too. But the manipulation over many years is in-grained and I am now taking care of my mother for the last 3 1/2 years, and most of the time we get along. But this year has really taken a toll on us and I realize at some point I probably will not be able to do this and will have to have mom go to assisted living. In the meantime, it is one day at a time, sometimes an hour or a few moments at a time. But I have promised myself that when that moment comes, I will do my best to not feel guilty because I have done the best I can in our relationship over the last 65+ years.

Oh and I forgot to say, she came to my home to live, and she has never forgiven me for taking her from " her home " in another town a few hours away. And had I chosen to live in her home, it would always be "her home". So it wouldn't have worked in her home and it sure doesn't work well in my home. I have heard about her having to give up "her home" very, very frequently. There's so much more, but .... guess I'll write a book one day.

Needhelp
I know how you feel. When I found out that my mother was talking behind my back I felt a betrayal that I never felt before. You feel stupid because you did so much for them and then you find out they are bad mouthing you. Treat you as if you should be grateful to just be in their presence. It hurts deeply!

If you can move out and don't look back!

Had I found this forum before I moved in with my own backstabbing mother perhaps, I would have saved myself much pain and tears.

Save yourself because no else will or can. You have gotten some great advice and if I was you, I would take it.

Don't waste your love or caring on someone who doesn't love or care for you. Just maybe someone wanted you to know the truth and told you to listen to your mom on the phone!

Hugs!!!

Look up gas lighting. It sounds like this is what Mum is doing when you confront her and she manipulates the situation.

Why have you not moved out? Your mother is not going to change, so you need to change your situation. Next time Mum needs help, she can hire someone to provide it.

I don't live with my mom--and I knew from the start that I never could. She lives with YB and is content enough, but she has asked me MANY times if she could move in with me. She doesn't particularly like me, so I don't know why she'd ask this!

I have heard her say some really awful things behind my back and to my face. But if I say something to one of the sibs for support, they don't really 'get it'.

I had cancer last year and she did not reach out to me ONCE in the year I was treating. When I started to grow some hair back, I went to see her, thinking maybe she'd care--all she said was "you used to be so pretty'. And then, "Well, when do they think this will come back?" (the cancer, not my hair).

She's not toxic, she's just got her favorites and I am not one. Just staying away from her as much as I can has been the only thing that has kept me sane.

She's 90 and will probably live many more years. I need to self preserve--and it's not 'natural' to me, so it's been hard.

Dear "Needhelp2021,"

I'm glad you do tell your mom about your awareness of what's been said and done behind your back BUT, you will never convince her that she's in the wrong or get her to "see the light." It's unfortunate, but so very true which you can see by the fact that she manipulates (gaslights) the situation and continues to play the victim. Why? Because it works for her, always has and always will.

The other factor is when it comes to siblings, in most families there is always sibling rivalry going on to some degree - some worse than others. Because of that they will want to strive to be the favored one, the good one. When that happens, then one or more of the other siblings and who are the caregiver(s) are the ones left holding the bag and taking on the role of the bad guy which has been placed upon them.

Rest assured you are not the only one this happens to and you will hear other posters share the same sentiments in their own situations.

Setting limits, boundaries or letting someone else take over is about the only alternative but, you have to hold firm and stay strong. If you give in again just "once" - she'll know she has you back on the hook!

I wish you the best and I know and understand how deeply this has hurt and affected not just you but how you go about caregiving for her and interacting with her.

Sorry to read this post. Sadly it’s that same old story we’ve read and/or posted about many times before. The physical reactions you describe are shock and horror that someone you have looked after could say such cruel and untrue things about you. I’ve had this too, and it made me feel sick, horrified, confused. You talk about walking out, but I’m not sure from your post if it is your home or if you are living in your mother’s home? Playing the victim when confronted is a classic plot to deflect the heat when this kind of behaviour is called out. I totally understand your hurt and think that yes, it would be better to put some distance between the two of you as she is taking you for granted as well as abusing you. You certainly deserve better than to live in such a toxic environment.

OMG!!! This is exactly how I feel!! I'm very sorry you are going through this....My mother does not have cancer,...just high blood pressure, cholesterol, etc...Long story short. I went through a horrible divorce and moved to my Mom's house thinking it would be a fresh start and be a win-win for all and she wouldn't be alone, this was 15 years AGO! (5 years prior, my brother who was living with her and had some issues was diagnosed with lung cancer and passed. I helped them out then and he said to me "You know, Mom can never live alone". Well, my two sisters have gone about their merry way...."Mom's fine"...knowing I am now financially stuck, nothing panned out for me the way I hoped and they have offered JACK.
Insult to injury, just two years ago and before, they went from she can live with me and even "she can live on her own" (what???)..don't worry....go on about your life to she's getting old now. Well, excuse me, she was when I got here or acted like it! Incidentally, of our conversations/issues over the years have been about Mom.

My apologies, I should have added this to my preface but, here it is anyway. (BTW she is 84.5 years old). Shortly, after I had moved in she sprained her ankle (laid up for 6 weeks) after that, she had a "global transient disorder episode" . That kinda set the tone for "things to come".

Anyway, I am starting to ramble and not giving the necessary details for the big picture. But, one thing you mentioned hits home. I over heard this when I first moved back...In regards to my ex..." He just dumped her off...what am I supposed to do with her?" Like she 's the big cheese. She maybe financially stable but...she is not emotionally stable at all, and a master manipulator to boot! One of her favorites is "nobody asked you to"?
She has always been insistent that she live and die in her home! Guess what, she has had 15 years of that and my sisters have enjoyed the luxury of knowing Mom is not alone (I don't think they care but, I resent them not feeling the stress of it!! - guilt free/ in denial of reality! ). All at my expense and if I had put my foot down and not have felt sorry for her and worried about myself and my future for once in my life, they would all be living a VERY DIFFERENT LIFE!

I am just soooo over it!!! ( I am the youngest and my brother was in the middle...I feel my sisters are big bullies! of the worst kind) - and guaranteed they would not be pulling this crap if my brother was alive!) I take solace in knowing one day I will make sure to verbalize this to ensure they don't get relief or (forgiveness from me) for not doing a thing for so so long, as well as knock them off their pretentiousness and delusion.
Thanks for letting me vent! I swear I am doing everything to try and stay positive! Dr. Joe Despenza can only do so much...."be greater than your environment" is easier said than done sometimes, but, GOD knows I'm trying!

I’m sorry for your experience. No one deserves this. But when people show you who they are, believe them. I hope you’ll move on to a more positive place, in every way, very soon

I completely understand how those comments from your mom to your sibling stings. It’s especially a slap in the face when you are the one doing all the heavy lifting with little or no appreciation or help and then a sibling finally calls not only are they treated like saints but the subtle undeserved lies/digs from your mom aren’t refuted.

I just went through something similar with mine, but the ones I am most angry with are my siblings. They KNOW my mother and can barely stand to be around her, they know she lies. But instead of redirecting and sticking up for me, knowing full well all I do, they appease her and that make things worse for me. It validates her garbage attitude.

What I’m trying to say is this is on your brother too. He should know better. He should have stopped your mother’s insults and remind her all that you do! I don’t mean in an arguing kind of way, rather polite and matter of fact.

As far as I’m concerned NOT sticking up for you is him throwing you under the bus. His silence is no excuse.

I’ll be honest when my mom passes, I’m washing my hands of my self-serving do nothing siblings.