My Mom (90) has dementia and I am her 24/7 carer. I am now in a dilemma about medication. Advice?

vstefans One more thing, they stop as much helpful drugs before they go into hospice also, especially if they are elder with a dnr and others. A person does not necessarily need to be in hospice to be killed although it does look better for them to die in hospice. They get them started in the hospital then finish them in hospice They all work together. It almost seems illegal to plan to take a life like that. Is'nt that what we call first degree murder when it is planned out.

One more thing they did not use sedatives at the end. She was already knocked out. She had been in a haldol/adivan coma that they could not get her up from.She died in a pain because she was not treated for the infection that was killing her. She was tortured with antibiotic that was making the fungal infection multiply slowly taking over her body. Even though it was bad they caught it in time to treat it she was back to normal the skin was cleared up vitals were good she was on the road to recovery but when she got to the hospital that killed her they made a decion to not continue treatment. It was not terminal all she needed was simply to continue her meds. I know that is what the doctor who treated her wanted for her instead she was given antibiotics that is a medicine that actually causes fungal and if you have fungal it will multiply causing all kinds of pain.She did not want her dnr to mean take her life if it would be easier for the medical staff. That is not what she had in mind when she got a DNR

Flowgo, there is absolutely to tell from your posts whether you are misinterpreting events because many many statements you make do not seem possible or sensible. First degree murder requires a motive. Hospitals conspire with hospices to kill people? You seem to have no doubt in your mind that this was not a medical error or medical error then cover up, but deliberate, cold blooded murder - but why? Antibiotics are agents of deliberate torture and cause painful fungal infections? (They may aggravate bacterial overgrowth or fungal infections. But, people don't die of fungal skin infections...) And how was she in a haldol-ativan coma that she could not wake up from and still in pain?

Look, either you have a case or you don't. I can't tell. Probably the legal people you tried to tell about this felt the same way and thought you were off base and not going to be able to present a coherent story separating what really happened from misconceptions and speculations. I do not know what state has a one year limit on med-mal let alone murder. If you could tell the story factually and simply, the way it would be written up in a court document, maybe someone would take the case or at least take a report. The way you are presenting now it gives an impression - maybe a completely wrong one - that you are using your imagination plus everything you saw and felt to stretch what may have been a bad situation and even bad medication management into the worst possible interpretation and magnifying it with obsession and rumination.

But I can see how impossible that is for you to step back and get back to the facts of the case. And the question is why. WHY is it such an important thing to have people say yes, you can never recover, counseling cannot help, you will be a lifelong victim of this situation. And apparently there is no way you can channel this energy towards any of the advocacy groups who are about preventing medical errors and taking a stand against involuntary euthanasia.

Were you or were you not her POA and in charge of her medical care? Did you ever get to sit down and review records with someone? Look, you may be right about counseling not helping because if you were not off the deep end before this happened, you are now. I'm thinking you need serious, competent psychiatric evaluation and treatment. If what you want is to be a victim and have victimhood as the cornerstone of your very identity for the rest of your life then the approach you are taking now will get you that. If what you want is the truth about this specific situation - your loss of your loved one, and their premature loss of their life - to come out, and justice to be done and.or this kind of thing prevented for others, you have got to approach this completely differently. Please get the kind of help you need to do that!

vstefans Most people have a very hard if not impossible time wrapping their head around this. It is very horrifying.That is true I do not have any doubt that she was killed by the hospital staff and hospice came in at the last hour to help finish her. I am not sure exactly what their motive was for killing her.I know for a fact that they knew better,therefore it was no accident. I am the kind of person who gives people the benefit of the doubt but here I can't do that.

She had just TWO PROBLEMS

She had the treatable fungal infection that was even successfully treated after it got bad, just needed to continue. This fungal infection was given to her in the hospital and never treated.

Second problem She was debilitated from the drug coma that was also given to her by medical monsters which was probably temporary. She was such a strong person she could have recovered from that.They may have not wanted to find out if she could make a full recovery from the drug overdose. If that was the reason for taking her life then that also would be some terrible kind of criminal act of murder.

She could feel pain even in this coma.There are different levels of comas.


As far as the antibiotics go,the antibiotics are great for killing bacteria infections. Woman can often develop yeast fungal infections just from the use of antibiotics. So can you only imagine a person who if trying to battle a nasty bad fungal infection and then given antibiotics and not allowed to have their anti fungal meds anymore. If the infection was bad enough like hers the antibiotics will make the fungal infection spread like a wild fire causing a lot of pain along the way.


As far as the lawyers go I talked to an elder abuse lawyer and explained how she was recovering from a sedative overdose when I brought her home to help her recover. The lawyer asked me so did I take her to the hospital after that I said yes cause she was getting some complications such as not even being able to walk well cause she was acting intoxicated.He said what did they do I said they drugged her up again as soon as I turned my back. This was even after explaining to the nurse in great detail that she could not have any sedatives. It was written in her chart the same thing. The lawyer right then said aaa ah and he could not take the case. It was so unbelievable.one time but two times in a row


I did get a lawyer who was also a medical doctor who practiced at one of the hospitals my mom went to. He was going to take the case but when he found it was euthanasia he did not even want to talk about it. I got him to talk and he said that he knows it is done though he does not believe in it. By the time the lawyer/doctor dropped the case I only had one day before the statue of limitations ran out. I talked to a wrongful death lawyer who was interested but when he found out how much time we had, which was one day he said that there was not enough time to get a case together.If it is murder then there is no statue of limitation.


As far as approaching it differently, i'm not sure about that one. I have the facts. The situation is just insane.

I can go see the counselor who is an expert with people who have been through traumatic events. I have gone but it really does not help much. When I lost my dad and grandma, counseling was great. Now I finally found this fantastic counselor after going through many many counselors and many wasted hours. I just don't know how any kind of closure can happen with this. I'm pretty sure it wont happen. I am just trying to accept what happened. That is very difficult if not impossible to do just that alone.


I never knew there was so much evil in the world. I never experienced it up close only on tv. Hospice came to our house when my dad passed and they helped my mom a lot. They did not force any pain killers on him or sedatives.He got what he wanted only. He went when he wanted to go. He had some nice nurses.With my mom the hospital was as evil as hospice.

You have to want to get better or there is no therapist in this world who will be effective. You have to stop fighting it for it to work. You will have to change your thinking too. If you are unwilling to change, then welcome to the rest of your life. If you won't take the meds that will help you stop perseverating, then there is no reason to keep writing to this board.

It will wear people out online and they will go away because other people do not want to keep revisiting it over and over with you. That is a good way to get taken off the site. You really need to get it under control one way or another. I strongly suggest you write these things down in a journal when you need to repeat it.

Antifungals are incredibly damaging to the liver. They can't be taken long term and shouldn't be taken by certain people at all because they have many side effects.

Reporting the facts means you take out all the descriptive language and opinion. You have to take out all the embellishment, colorful language, and calling organizations and people evil monsters. You can't draw conclusions like saying "they killed her - I just know it" or words like "probably". That is not factual reporting. That is opinion-having and there is nobody who takes that seriously because you are not an expert in the field or an expert witness. You are an upset family member who has bias and an agenda. The details contradict each other and don't make sense. The stream of consciousness emotional brain-dumping doesn't build credibility with others. They will just see you as an out of control upset person.

None of us can get you through this. You are going to have to want to get better and put in the effort. If you don't, the people on this site will stop responding to you completely because they are worn out.

OK, we are getting closer. Bear in mind that I write and review case reports as part of my work and could possibly help, informally as a sort of volunteer interpreter (not as a medical expert though), if we have more facts straight.

Questions:

1. What was she in the hospital for in the first place, where she got the fungal infection, and what kind of fungal infection (yeast? tinea? other?) Bear in mind that tinea infections (I've had a few myself) don't usually hurt and if they even itch it is pretty mild. Candida will burn and if it is in the esophagus it will hurt a lot especially to swallow. You have a sentence that seems contradictory and I think you did not mean it to be - you say the fungal infection was treated and then treatment was not continued and then it was never treated so that is confusing.

2. You mentioned a minor surgical procedure - what was that for?

3. You mentioned you brought her home to try to get over the sedation effects, but then you had to take her back because she got worse instead of better and/or a lawyer advised you to?

4. You went to one lawyer but it was already almost too late, but before that, x2, when lawyers heard that sedative drugs were given despite report of adverse reaction and against orders and express wishes they immediately dropped it like a hot potato??? Normally, that would be very much in favor of proceeding with legal action. They were thinking you meant something other than what you were trying to tell them, apparently.

"Closure" is overrated. Grief alone changes you forever, and circumstances like these which add anger and helplessness to it is even more shattering. Closure can be be truly feeling OK after all is said and done, or it can be nothing more than the painful acceptance of despair that nothing more can possibly be done ...Of COURSE you are not there yet, and until you can make someone understand in a solid way what actually happened, closure is not at all the goal here. You are going to have to find a way to tell the story without using the words "medical monsters" and "murder" and "evil" even if those words are stuck in your head every time you tell it. If you can get the story out, in order, without leaving out anything, there is a great chance of doing something positive with it. Possibly - having that story would instead end up helping you actually have something like "closure"; I once met with the sibling of a patient who died of Leigh disease who had a feeling she could not shake that somehow the child was lost to bad care and should not have died and was able to show them in the records what all was done and why. It may have been a risky thing to do but the parent wanted it and I was reasonably sure given the age of death that no stones were left unturned for the child.

Your mentioning your positive experience with hospice and more respectful and transparent medication use helps enormously as well, more than you realize. People here on AgingCare are often struggling horrifically with guilt and fear of using services or treatments that have tremendous potential to help at a difficult time in a loved one's life; the suggestion that all hospice interventions and all sedatives and painkillers and psych meds are instruments of cruelty, control, and death can tear vulnerable people apart inside. Depression, delirium, and psychosis are terrible things and must be treated at times, even at some risk, and may be as unbearable as physical pain.

I already have done sandwich for exactly that reason.

I have had counselling and yes I still with the horror that happened TO ME but I dont keep battering it to death.

It serves no purpose FOR ME to do that. Worse still it reenergises a demon that it took me YEARS of counselling with the SAME therapist to get over. The trauma that is ....YOU NEVER GET OVER THE INCIDENT.

I learned to cope with and manage the demons. Yes if someone asks me I will tell them, but tell them dispassionately for they know then I am able to cope, but I will not let the demons define me...I am worth more

I lost my father at 15. There are still times at the age of 44 that I can't talk about it. It still feels near and raw, but it's not as often as it used to be. I was left to deal with a mentally ill mother and raise myself.

I decided that I had to get on with life. Me obsessing over dad and how he died was 1 - never going to bring him back and 2 - rob me of my own life.

Sometimes there will never be closure - meaning psychological satisfaction. There are so many times in life where psychological satisfaction is just NOT going to happen. And then what?

You have to decide to get on with living life and taking the help and tools to cope. Do the exercises to get back in control. Don't give in to the monster that wants to suck you back into the darkness. It takes constant vigilance and a lot of work. It doesn't pick you up and carry you back to shore. You have to swim there and not go stand in the waves over & over.

But it can be done. If you want it bad enough.

SANWICH antifungals helped her antibiotics did the opposite. That is a fact. The treatment was supposed to be continued everyone knew that from the nurses to the doctors

I found out from the medical records that because they lied about her being terminal from end stages diseases she did not even have they were able to do what they wanted which was not continue the treatment that she needed and give treatment that would kill her. That is a fact.

I was very excited about doing a new kind of treatment designed to help people who have been through very traumatic events. I went in their with a positive open mind knowing that I would benefit and had no success. My mind froze. Yes I would like to know how to overcome this. Sometimes people can get over very traumatic events. I know there were people who came out of the concentration camp and went on to make lives for themselves in another country. I wish I too can do something similar. Others never even left their house. I have always been able to bounce back from anything. I lost my bounce I want it back. Nothing has ever kept me down This is literally the only thing ever.

One step forward, two steps back...but, you've seen records. What did they say she had that she didn't?

You can do this. You can face the truth about everything that happened, whatever it is, even after four years. I sent you the private message I did for a reason

I also lost my very dear dad from cancer as a kid and my very dear grandma at a young age and other relatives. My dad and grandma meant the world to me.The loses were tragic. I was able to eventually grieve each loss and go on. Til this day I still miss them but at least I can look back and remember happy memories of them. With my dad it was so hard at first, cause I would be so mad at the cancer and blame it for taking his life.The anger eventually subsided and I was able to remember the happy times.It took about a year for both deaths I was still sad but my life was ok.

With my mom I cant even accept her death. It is easier to not even think of her at ALL. It is bad enough to keep having to feel the anger and ever ending pain of what they did to her.That constantly haunts me. I cant even begin to take on and deal with the loss.That is just way to overwhelming. I don't even want to deal with the loss since it is so wrong.

sanwich Losing your dad must have been so hard to deal with at a young age I can relate. I have never been in that situation of raising myself and all that you must have been through. I respect what you went through and feel bad for you, but still I can not truly even begin to know all that you must have been through since I never walked in your shoes.

I would also appreciate the same respect

vstefans The sad thing was that my mom did not ever go to the hospitals until she got so many complications from the drug overdoses. Her age and especially her drug sensitivities made it impossible to recover before she would get hit with the next one. It was so insane.

The fungal infection was treated by a good doctor and his staff at another hospital. It was only 2 days of treatment. In that two days the skin infection was completely cleared. They said that she got through the worst of it and she was on the road to recovery. He expected that the anti fungal treatment(the helpful treatment) would continue. It was a treatment that was supposed to be continued not stopped and given inappropriate deadly meds for the condition she had. She went to the hospital where the doctor who did her elective procedure was. This is where they decided not to treat her because they were calling her terminal. There was end stages of diseases she never had as her cause of death written on the death certificate.

Another thing that happened is they were trying to blame the sores from her infection as being bed sores on her shins. Just like they blamed the druggings as last stages of dementia( a vegetative state).If a person has heart problems or even if they don't. They can give them sedatives and the sedative side effects can cause stroke symptoms, heart problems etc etc but they will never blame anything on the sedatives. Family has to really be on their toes when it comes to their elder loved ones care. They can blame the side effects of the drugs for so many problems that elders can have. They do a lot of tricking.

I was just telling you about an elder abuse lawyer who turned me down when he found out that I was taking care of her and helping her recover from the drug overdose at her house. He was interested until he found out how the treatment for an overdose is another overdose. I don't think he found it believable. Had I not been there myself, I also would not find it believable. I could see why people think there loved ones are deteriorating after being treated to a drug overdose by staff if they don't know what is going on.

This elder abuse lawyer asked me what I did after they overdosed her, did I at least take her to the hospital to get her checked out. I said yes he asked what did they do for her did they keep her etc. I said yes they did keep her and they put her into another overdose when I stepped out for a second and after I just got done explaining to the nurses that she can not take these kind of sedatives cause she is already trying to recover from a sedative overdose.The reaction she had to these drugs was also written in her chart. When I looked at the nurses in shock after looking at my unconscious mom, they told me I could just say no to the sedatives. This happened at two different hospitals that were not affiliated with each other. I' m assuming this is just normal practice or maybe cause she had a dnr and she was an elder.Disposable patients even if they are healthy. It is beyond bad.The more they get away with, the more they will do.

I had a malpractice lawyer who was also a doctor and worked in a hospital, mom was in not the drug infested ones but another one.He did not want to discuss euthanasia. I did finally get him to talk and he admitted that he knew of doctors who use euthanasia, but he did not believe in it and would never do it.We had got the case started until he found out about the euthanasia and was to uncomfortable to continue on knowing that. Scary that we have to depend on doctors that have good morals. That is why laws need to be enforced and made. Autopsies and investigations should be done on suspicious deaths especially elders. If the family does not catch on that it is a suspicious death then the nurses and doctors should or someone. Imagine how many euthanasia deaths are completely swept under the carpet without a trace.

Both malpractice and wrongful death in a hospital are a one year limitation. This lawyer/ doctor dropped the case one day before it turned a year he was also saying that we were so rushed for time. It was just so hard to find a lawyer to take an elder case and with so many problems,iIt made it sound like it was not believable.

The wrongful death lawyer was going to take the case until he found out that we only had a day.He also said that he would not be able to get the case ready that fast. I found my lawyers but did not have enough time. This law of a year also needs to change, it is not like that in other states. Our state is easier to get away with stuff.

My mother-in-law suffered from frontal-temporal Dementia. The Dr. switched her from galantamine to memantine. She had been on Memantine for 6 weeks now. We found her cognitive skills worsened and she is more agitated compared to when she was on Galantamine.

I ran into this article on clinical observation on patients who took memantine that may help you to understand more about memantine:

http://www.theaftd.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/Memantine-FTD-Lancet-Neurol-2013-Boxer.pdf

Observation: Memantine was generally well tolerated; however, patients in the memantine group had more frequent cognitive adverse events (six patients) than those in the placebo group (one).
INTERPRETATION:
Memantine treatment showed no benefit in patients with FTD. These data do not support memantine use in FTD.

If your mom can still walk, take her to the park with a walker and walk her a few minutes each day. I do that everyday with my mother and the results are amazing. It's a lot better than any meds you can imagine--my mother is on no medications, and the daily walks have helped control her mania behavior. She has her days but it's easier to redirect her. I also give her a cup of cocoa each day--if I skip a day or two I see a big difference. This worked for my mom.

My husband is in late stage Alzheimer's. He has been on donepezil for several years, as well as memantine. These were given to him in the early stages. He was just admitted to Home Hospice. We are now weaning him off of these medications! The doctors, nurses, and I agree that they are no longer effective at this stage, so why burden the physical body with them. Helping with any present symptoms is preferred at this stage. There are meds. that can keep her relaxed and calm......try that route. p.s. don't let anyone pressure you!!! Caregivers know the patient best!

Arecept -- all of those psych drugs -- only mask symptoms. They also increase risk for falling. They don't slow it down. Good diet, daily routine, and daily exercise like walks (even with a walker) is the best medicine.

My mother Is 92 as diagnosed with dementia , doctor gave he Namenda , I asked many times what the side effects were and was told only constipation . After a week on Namenda she begann to hallucinate and thought she might jump off her balcony . I immediately took her off the drug and within 48 hours she was back to normal but very shook up after that experience. Honestly I feel if they are not in pain then keep drugs away . Older people do not do well on drugs

Hanson you are absolutely correct elder people react differently from younger ones. If you are worried about side effects from any drug there is plenty of information on the Internet so it is a very good idea to look up the side effets of any new drug and the interactions of any new prescription. dn't rely on the pharmacist to alert you make yourself responsible.

My mom started Aricept in mid Vascular, and Lewy Body dementia with very good results.

Mom was given Halodol, an had a horrendous reaction. She screamed for 3 days, an was trashing in bed were is was unable to keep her from falling out of bed. I layed in bed with her an held her tight. she threw up an still screaming in agony for 3 days & nights an never once quit screaming...l thought she would die, she had muscle problems were as l could not get her to set up an try to get her out of the mess in the bed..could not control her mucles to set her up! We layed in bed 3 days & nights...an finally she stopped....she slept ...an l then called Hospice! They said she just had a bad reaction.! I researched Halodol.....A BAD DRUG, PERIOD!!!

My Papa is 90 and in a NH. He is currently on Ativan and Aricept for Parkinson’s hallucinations. They have been a tremendous help to him.

All medicine has the potential to be helpful or harmful. All medicine has side effects, they are just minor or major. Also, everyone reacts differently to medications. The only way to see if a medicine will help or hurt is to try a low dose and monitor for changes, good or bad.

Haldol should not to be gen to the elderly or pts with dementia also u have to take cogentin with haldol

I have an 97 year old mother in-law, with dementia, recently had to put in a nursing home, she came in after being in the hospital from pneumonia, and congested heart failure, Now let me say she lived at home just had some family member staying at night. Well when in the hospital she started anxiety attacks crying yelling to God, uncontrollably, so they put her on Xanax, so after hospital, we moved her to nursing home and rehab facility, now she is on depression meds blood pressure, then they had a psychologist to come and see her, and suggested to give Abilify, well now she is a zombie, we use to walk her down the hall, she can hardly stand wets on herself, can not have a conversation with her, I know with dementia, and it is going to get worse, but I don’t trust the nursing home judgement, so they don’t have to deal with her mood swings, can anyone please help me, this women is a precious women and I love her like she was my own mother. Any suggestions, the nursing home is five miles from my home I stay three days a week and we have 24 hour sitters.

My mom was in the beginning stages of dementia when Dr prescribe nemenda, after about 5 or 7 days she thought she might jump off her terrace and sat in a Corner freaking out , the Dr was like that can’t be from the drug , but her GP docter said take her off which I did and within 24 hours she was back to normal saying that was the worst thing that ever happened to her ! So beware side effects can happens with these strong drugs

Aricept did not agree with my mom, she seemed to get more confused and angry, and we tried it 2 different times!!

My husband was put on Donepezil 10 mg in early May. He was always hyper, but now he is very hyper. When he wants something, he wants it now. He doesn't understand why he can't drive, because "I can drive." So, he calls people to bring him to places daily, and I'm waiting for people to start avoiding us because of that. He tries to get out with someone for fast food almost every single day. I would say 5 days a week he is getting smoothies, ices, Sonic, McDonald's or Popeye's Fried Chicken. He gave our credit card to his son to get him an "Alexa," then paid a tech support (scam) on the phone for helping to activate it. It's pretty easy to activate, he just wasn't patient enough to wait for someone to find time to help him, because we all work. He paid $300 for a firewall the guy swore he needed. (We didn't; we already had a good one.) He butchered our beautiful camellias and azaleas this weekend while I was at work. Like I said, he was hyper before, but it is really exacerbated now. He has a history of alcoholism and bipolar, and from what I've read, Donepezil can cause mania in patients with that background. I am just wondering what he'll do next! Has anyone experience with this side effect?

jeannegibbs, the neurologist’s assistant called me back today and said that the doctor didn’t think the Donepezil was causing the symptoms. I disagree. My instinct tells me otherwise. He was told to stop driving at about the same time as the Donepezil was started. The excess hyperactivity could be a result of both the meds and stopping driving. The fastfood and icees are not a problem per se, but when he wants something, he is persistent and will impose on anyone who will listen. The doctor told him fruits, vegetables, lean meats and fish. He has very addictive behavior, and right now he wants junk food all the time. The rest of the family eats home cooked balanced meals. Can’t win every battle, so I’m not going to fight him about foods. The meds, I will monitor closely. Doctor aaid we can stop and see how it goes.

As far as l know, there is no medicine worthy of taking at this late! At this point in her life, if you can make her comfortable, an pain free, that will be a blessing. What are her problems? Ask the doctor for what you need....If in pain, ask the Dr. what he suggest, same if sleepless, what might work. What ever you do, make sure she is NOT given HALODOL...bad Medicine!! Keep it simple, there is not much you can do for mom, except keep her comfortable and love her to pieces while she winds down, an get some help, so you can have down time an for your sanity! The best to you.💝

I've used Phosphatidylserine for mental health (memory) with both parents (83, 91) with very good results, zero side effects.