I am the daughter who takes care of mom primarily after my father passed in 2011. She has always had a close relationship with MY daughter, and that is very nice. What is not very nice is that my mother cannot afford her house any longer, because she is constantly giving my almost 30 y/o money for car repairs, pays her insurance monthly and phone, her parking tickets, etc etc. My daughter unfortunately is a narcissist and because I do not agree with her tactics she has "ruled" that I am no longer to interact with her. This gives her free reign to drain my mother's bank accounts... while I do everything I can on my end to help my mom understand WHY she is always $1000 behind a month. Is there any valuable advise that someone can share?
* Explain that she's elderly and being financially abused or exploited and she's on the verge of facing homelessness because someone is either stealing her money or swindling/scamming her out of it.
If you have all of the information including her date of birth, as well as her name of course and definitely her Social Security number, address, and possibly banking information if she gets direct deposit. If you have all of the vital information on this person, definitely give Social Security a call right away, do it immediately.
Another thing that would help instead of a bank account alone would be to have her Social Security moved to a special card you can use at the ATMs or even at the checkout. Money can be taken off the card and put into the bank account for her bills while the rest stays on the card. If you make it a rule not to carry cash at all, it will be near impossible to get anything from any of you including the person being financially abused as you're describing. I think I mentioned this before but be very wary if this other person taking advantage of the elderly happens to be on her bank account as a joint owner. This is really not a good idea if this happens to be the case. You really don't want this elderly person losing her home especially if she's lived there a very long time. If she's been otherwise good with paying her bills, it's time to nip the problem in the bud. What you need to do is find out when this other person is showing up at the elder's home but this will take some private surveillance on your part. As soon as this person goes in the door, miraculously show up at the same moment she walks in the door or a few seconds after. Another thing you can do is if you're helping this elder at all is to call the phone provider when she's out on an outing and change her phone number through her provider. You can do this if you happen to gain any type of position where you're helping her with her bills. You'll definitely need a few pieces of vital information including the account number, phone number, and her pin number if the provider requires her to provide one for her account. Accounts are sometimes given pin numbers. For instance, if the phone happens to be through frontier, each account has a pin number. Getting a hold of that will definitely give you the power to have the number changed so the leech who may also be calling her won't be able to communicate with her by phone. The only way she could communicate with her is either by email which you can have disabled or deactivated, or by just coming over. When she comes over, you can be waiting somewhere around the corner but somewhere you can watch the elder's home. Another thing you can do is to hire a neighbor and explain what's going on if they don't already know. Explain to a nearby neighbor the situation and give all the details about the leech and the situation. Hire that neighbor to watch the elders home especially if the neighbor happens to live right across the street. Have them contact you right away or see if they'll show up as soon as this leech comes over to the elders home. You can also give APS a call and make a report. Make a report each and every time the leech shows up at the elders home. If possible, try to get video and audio surveillance inside the elder's home. It's possible to be able to watch inside the home if you have the right hardware and software. It's kind of call the nanny cam to some degree. This can help if the elder is also prone to falling. If you can catch video and record suspicious activity in any of the rooms of the elder's home, you can turn that into not only police, but also the APS. There are systems out there that help with elder monitoring, you may very well want
What you may end up wanting to do if she happens to work is call her boss and tell her boss what she's doing. Explain that the employee is taking advantage of an elderly person and not using their own wages to support themselves. The boss will call her into the office and have a talk with her and it would help if you were there as well because you can be there to explain everything you've seen. It would also help to take along any witnesses. I'm not sure any boss would keep an employee who would stoop that low, especially if this employee happens to handle money. I can tell you that no reputable company will want a dishonest employee (if this person happens to be working). Again, it is very possible to stop an enabler, don't let anyone tell you it's not because it's very possible if proper steps are taken.
Now if the daughter happens to be on Social Security herself, you can report her to Social Security because she's taking money from another recipient but she's not entitled to, and she can get in big trouble for what she's doing from your description. This would go under the category of gaining unreported income, and they can cut her benefits or even stop them. Depending on the severity of the situation, she can even be banned from receiving public assistance depending on the discretion of the government. If the elder is getting federal benefits and most likely she is, federal benefits is something to not mess with because the government will definitely crack down hard on anyone taking benefits they are not entitled to. This can land people in jail for a very long time. That kind of record can haunt people for the rest of their lives for messing with the government's money. Knowing something and not reporting it makes people just as bad as the one committing the crime. It's up to the citizens to report suspicious activity and even step into intervene and stop it if necessary.
If it happens to be that this person is not entitled to benefits and she's not working, it's time to tell her to get a job and it's time to intervene and put a stop to her leeching off of the elderly person because the elderly person cannot afford to be supporting someone else, especially if she's not yet on Medicaid and will need to apply for it. I don't know all the rules of Medicaid for myself, I've been on it since childhood when I was rescued from an abusive home.
Another thing that would help is probably putting the elder's extra money into a trust so that the leech cannot access a dime of it. Taking steps to dry up the leech's money source and push her out of the nest and force her to take responsibility (unless she happens to find another victim).
Taking advantage of elders is very common, and what's described here is exactly what's going on. When someone is on the verge of homelessness because of someone else taking advantage of them, this is definitely an extreme case where intervention is absolutely necessary, and a representative payee would definitely be very helpful in this particular type of matter. Look at the situation again. If they don't ever is coming up short by $1000 every month, this should tell you that something is definitely very wrong, especially if the elder is on the verge of homelessness, hello!Yes, something definitely needs to be done about this because there is definitely a huge problem if the elder can no longer afford her home and she's struggling. The Op explained the situation that someone is taking financial advantage of the elder, and others on this thread have expressed their own experience with this very same kind of problem due to their experience and observations.
Let's get another thing straight:
Narcissist is more than just a psychological term. Those who don't know about how narcissistic operate really need to do their homework because narcissist really do take advantage of others out of selfish greed, I personally new one. It doesn't matter whether or not the OP responds, maybe the person is busy trying to take care of matters regarding this situation. Remember this is a family problem. We don't know the situation of the OP, we shouldn't judge because we don't know the whole situation which is true
I used to know another elderly man who is like a grandfather to me, and he was sharp as a tack for his age. I mean you really couldn't tell he was even elderly because he didn't even look it! He was also pretty strong physically and he ran his own horse farm. He took care of his own affairs just like a younger person does. He was a retired veteran who also used to work in a steel mill before he retired. He was pretty sharp about everything, and he was able to stay safe. He was very careful who we answered the door to and he was never taken advantage of by phone scams or even mail scams. He knew his money very well. Not everyone who becomes elderly loses their mind, some of them are very sharp. I knew another one who since died, and he was also very sharp as a tack. Sharp elders are everywhere, we never know who they are until we get to know them, and sometimes it doesn't take long to find out just how sharp they really are. I know there are other elders who decline, but not all of them do, I've known some who didn't and there have been others who stayed sharp right up to the end. I think one of the secrets was most likely their diet and having few to no deficiencies because the body as well as the mind needs building blocks to keep going and stay well. A proper diet is very helpful especially during old-age. If you study some of the other countries in other parts of the world, you'll find that there are some cultures that don't even know anything about cancer or what it is, and some of them don't even get sick. You can just about imagine them living up to about 120 years and they're still healthy right up to the end. We can learn a few things from them and apply it to our own lives. Some people experience mental decline, but they don't have to. In fact, I was surprised to learn that Alzheimer's can now be reversed with a new drug. However, there's also natural alternatives to drugs to not only reversed but prevent Alzheimer's. Knowledge is increasing these days and new discoveries are being found. I don't know how long it'll be before the Alzheimer's drug hits the market, but I hope it's sooner rather than later because people need it now, and look how many have died long before the drug was ever discovered. That's too many. Even one death is too many, we need that drug now and we are long overdue as a society. I speak on behalf of those I've known who developed dementia, I say to those drug companies, "hurry up! Get that drug on the market now!" I'd really like to see a world full of sharper elders who can live longer and take care of themselves right up to the end. I'm sure this would make us all happy and even very grateful to see our elders thriving right up to the end
Can you set up a sample budge - going by the utility / food / property tax / insurance costs / rx bills for 12 months? Her financial needs are going to escalate. Her "gifts to her adult daughter WILL work against her should she need medicaid SSI or other assistance. The gov't would see it as 'hiding money' in order to qualify. Take the household expenses __off the top__ of her income: even if you need to bump up the annual amortization from Aug to Dec. i just paid $2500 in property tax, house insurance is due in Oct, car insurance in Dec.
It's time to be the tuff one, okay? Your Mom doesn't have the money to squander. Get a letter from Legal Aid or an elder care attorney, Even though i had PoA, i had to have a letter from Mom's palliative care doctor specifically stating that Mom couldn't handle her financial affairs. Your Mom might be simply responding out of habit - and emotional coersion - when giving money to your sister. Just gotta put your foot down and close the wallet. Perhaps set up a separate bank account for paying taxes / food / rx/ utility bills - or payment will fall to you. Utility companies will file a lien against the property if their bills go unpaid. Sometimes TCL must wear a suit of armor. Mine is potholed with rocks, but you're welcome to use it. Sweetie - your "job" is to protect your Mom. We're on your side. i'd try to keep protective services out of it - sometimes they go too far and before you know it, they're trying to talk you into court-appointed conservatorship [declaring your Mom incompetent in the eyes of the law]. Many elder care attorneys or legal aid have initial free consultations [many are available through longstanding arrangement with AARP]. May God bless, protect and guide you.
My foster dad also did a very good job at hiding dementia, which probably contributed to why I couldn't recognize when he was mentally declining, which really complicated matters even further. When you're not trained to spot and recognize dementia, someone who hides it makes it even harder to spot in the earlier stages. I had no idea what was going on for quite a while until it became obvious enough to know something was wrong
Find a rehab hospital with a memory clinic, or call the teaching hospital in your area and talk to the neurology department about where to get your mom a full workup. It clarified mom's issues for us all.
* This can be done while she's sleeping or any other time she's away from her purse and wallet.
When you have the wallet, remove all of her debit cards and put them into your wallet along with all cash. Redeposit all of the cash into her bank account. Sit down with the bank manager and tell the manager exactly what you told us in as few words as possible.
* Things may be much smoother if you happen to know the manager pretty well, the better you know the manager, the better.
1. See if your daughter is joint owner on the account your mom's account.
2. See what's required to close the old account and move all of the money into a new account.
3. Have the person in question blocked from ever accessing the new account.
You will probably get a new debit card, so handy in the old one for the bank to shred for you. Do not give her the card! Don't give her any cash either. Best yet, make it a rule not to even carry cash anymore, just do all of your transactions on the debit card but run it as credit. Limit your mom's access to the account so she can't put herself further in the whole than she already is.
* Have all of your transactions go through you! Have the bank call you if she tries to access the account and especially if she tries to withdraw any money.
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* Do not have a checkbook! Having no checkbook eliminates another avenue of transferring money to the leech. The idea is to dry up the source completely from all angles. It won't take long before your daughter stops coming around to see grandma when she realizes grandma can no longer give her money. If she really loves her grandma, she'll still visit even if she knows she won't get any money. Just from your description though, it sounds to me like she's just using grandma and she doesn't really care or even love her, this is just the nature of a narcissist. Again, I knew a narcissist and they don't love, they devour. You can already bet that the narcissist already has another victim lined up, this is how they operate and you might want to secretly follow her and watch who she starts hanging out with. Next, you'll definitely want to at very least warn other potential victims she hangs out with. Anytime a narcissist starts hanging out with anyone, they already have bad motives to take advantage of those people no matter who they are. I don't know if you fully recognize all the signs, but since you raised her and you can identify her as a narcissist, perhaps you already know something about narcissistic behavior. I must warn you something you probably already know that there is no reasoning with a narcissist and you can't argue with them. They don't listen, nor do they care. They don't care about the needs of others, they just look to get they can from their victims, whether or not the victims need whatever the narcissistic is trying to get from them. What you may have to do is cut off contact or at least limit it between the narcissist and her victim. I personally would try to see if you can move your mom in with you or vice a versa. If this isn't possible, see if one of you can move closer to the other. Even if you end up selling grandma's house and moving her in with you (even temporarily), this will increase her savings. It sounds to me like the narcissist is targeting grandma because she's alone (if I'm correct). This is how the narcissistic usually operates. I know this due to how the one I used to know operated. They have a way of manipulating their victims until they get what they want from the victims. Victims of narcissist will try to set boundaries, but narcissists have clever ways of getting around those boundaries and breaking them down until they get what they want from the victims. They usually target the victims who are alone from my experience. There may be one other person who's also a fellow victim (but you may not know until later when the truth comes out).
The granddaughter is a leech. She should be thoroughly ashamed of herself, but the OP explains that, as a narcissist, the granddaughter not only is not ashamed but resents being told that she ought to be to the extent that she has formally informed her mother that she, the victim's/enabler's caregiver daughter, may not contact her, the leech granddaughter.
Which is breathtaking chutzpah. Me, I'd be outside the granddaughter's house with a megaphone and a hairbrush; but then I haven't walked a mile in the OP's shoes.
From the OP's description, I've been suspecting there is probably a mental decline going on with the grandma, obviously she needs some very serious help or this wouldn't be going on. I'm very curious just how long this is been going on and just how much money has been going into the hands of the granddaughter. Just like someone else mentioned here, I'm very curious where the granddaughter spends her money and where it's going. I don't know if it's all going towards bills or if she's just wasting it, but it's funny she's quickly taking down her grandmother financially. Something is definitely going on besides just the granddaughter taking advantage of grandma, the granddaughter may very obviously lack budgeting skills, or maybe she's using it on drugs or alcohol but something is definitely going on that's causing this problem. I once knew a narcissist who wasted all his money on tobacco and lived very large at the expense of his live-in girlfriend until she finally evicted him from her apartment. It sounds to me like the granddaughter definitely needs investigated and she probably needs to be prosecuted. Someone definitely needs to take over the grandmothers financial affairs because she's definitely in financial crisis. Anyone going bankrupt to the point of possible homelessness definitely needs someone to take over their financial affairs and to straighten things out. Anytime you take over someone else's financial affairs, it does involve holding on to any cash, checkbooks and debit cards. I have a friend who was his moms POA and that's exactly what he did. It's hard to take advantage of someone when someone else is handling all of their financial affairs, but it must be the right person. It's hard to take advantage of someone when someone else is handling all of their financial affairs, but it must be the right person handling the affairs. Someone definitely needs to cut off the enabling behavior by taking over grandma's financial affairs, which would mean drying up the financial source to the granddaughter. Perhaps cutting off her financial source would bring her to the point of realizing that she really needs to use her own money on important things and not blow it foolishly, she really needs to go to someone who can teach her budgeting skills. She's not entitled to her grandmas money if grandma's getting federal benefits, she's not entitled to it, her grandma is. Someone really needs to be yelling at the granddaughter right now because I don't think she's understanding the whole situation, and it's going to take the right person to be able to shake some sense into her or best yet, knock some sense into her. I mean, look at the situation. I don't think the granddaughter would like it if someone was spending her broke and she was facing homelessness and perhaps had nowhere to go but under a bridge in a cardboard box. Some towns like ours have very strict ordinances against homelessness, and cops around here will definitely pick up the homeless and put them in a jail cell. I know of someone who is currently homeless and that's what the cops even told him. Around here the homeless cannot even be obvious without the cops being able to spot signs of homelessness and pick them up. The problem described here is hopefully not going on in this town because around here the cops will definitely pick up the homeless. I hope for the sake of the grandmother that someone stops the problem before it's too late because someone needs to step in. Intervention is definitely necessary