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I can't believe she did it. Is this normal for someone with these condition? They washed her hair and she had just had it done. I think that is why she did it.
Yes, it's pretty normal for patients to lash out when frightened, confused or angry. I think you should talk to her doctor and see what he/she thinks. My hubby has TBI dementia and when he suddenly started becoming violent with me his doctor said it was PBA (pseudo-bulbar affect and put him on a medication that has helped with the mood swings). As someone else has said I wouldn't want to drug someone for one incident and I'd want the full story too. Although it can be a common thing for a patient to do there's also the chance that she had a good reason to be upset. I certainly wouldn't want someone washing my hair after I'd paid for it and gone through all the trouble to have it done nicely. If they really did that then you need to meet with them and see if they can arrange not to wash her hair on days when they know she has been to the beauty salon. If she's in a dementia care facility they know her every move so there's no reason for them to force hair washing when she has already had it done.
To: momdoesntknowme… i loss my mom about month ago in nursing home from natural causes. Everyone in the nursing home thought she was sweet compared to other patients. She had moderate dementia. The only time she was mean when she felt like she wasn’t treated respectfully or she was scared. Most of all, she felt sad because she was missing hugs and comfort!! The way you wrote, sounded like all patients are mean and abusive to the staff. The staff needs to be more patience with people with dementia. Just walk away when you see it coming and when they calm down, go back to them. When they have sun downers, then that is when they get agitated and lash out. Right now, I’m dealing with my dad who is 89 and he has dementia (he knows it in somewhat). I back off when he gets nervous, anxious and talks mean. I have to do that because I have cerebral palsy and I can’t run. LOL
So, it takes a lot of patience! I know that the staff don’t make good money. However, I really think some staff in nursing homes blame on the patients for hitting them and won’t admit what they did. Some of the people with dementia get very frustrated because they don’t know how to express their feelings.
One of the hardest parts of beginning the journey of dementia with my mom is that she's feared this disease her whole life and hoped she'd die before she ever faced it- and I thought for the first year in she kept forgetting about the diagnosis but she didn't, she wasn't ready to talk about it yet. Now that her motor skill loss has made her need nursing home care (second worst fear of her life), she was recently ready to talk about it. She knows she has good days and bad days and forgets people and remembers little details. But one of the sweetest moments we have is when we are alone in her room, she will lower her voice and say "has it started yet". The first time I thought she meant bingo! But she said, "I know what comes with this disease. I know my personality may change and I may act mean and do aggressive things someday. Have I changed yet?" And I always tell her "you seem like my mom to me!" She knows the possibilities yet she's so alert she's just aware more than most.
Sweet story, John's girl. My mom handled the diagnosis well, but her greatest fear was getting mean as well. She has gotten more "sassy" now that she is in the late stages. It started about mid stage 6. Now she is in stage 7. We look for triggers and do all we can to create a calm environment but she still has bad days...we just tell her we her and work through them. She also has good days...and some superior days. Sometimes she is fairly clear and says "I am so sorry...I was so mean" We know it isn't her so we just say "there is nothing to be sorry about, you are wonderful"and she is. One day she said, "I'm in here and I can't get out" That one made me cry
..First of all, to "momdoesntknowme" .... Do not set out to continue to prove anything on my behalf, because personally I simply do not care. Second of all, if you are going to take offense from someone being firm and straight-up regarding things you yourself have written, then might I suggest you re-read and then proof read again your own writings before you post publicly, because the way you wrote is exactly the way I commented against it. You can stop repeating/quoting my profile word "exhausted" for the plan fact you are misusing it to fit yourself. And no, momentary sugar intake such as a piece of cake or perhaps what ever dessert, or a soda, or what ever your imagination can drum up for your "they ate sugar & music" sentence you wrote of the evening you had. You continued to write as if you had zero understanding of what being restrained would do to anyone much less an elderly person suffering dimentia by the you choose words, words in your entire story to make it sound as if "you were the victim of that evening . You wrote as if you were "shocked of why a "usually restrained" individual (per your words) would lash out. ...Anyway, you will need to re-learn that momentary Sugar consumption in the amounts that any person could have even possibly eaten of the evening you were referring to in your own story, does not cause Dementia outbursts as you are suggesting. Medical and scientific studies are just now studying a possible "high fructose" high blood sugar correlation of memory loss, etc. But in no way are any medical or other scientific studies proving what you are suggesting, much less even of a one time consumption event. You, because you did not proof read your own words to any consideration of how you would sound to readers, your own words blamed "sugar and music" as the potential cause of your struggle with a "usually restrained dementia patient" rather than being careful of your wording.. You also had not placed words that would explain your position and thoughts now, present day. Such as you had not explained something such as this "I remember back then, that evening, I remember thinking maybe it was sugar, or music" but now I know differently, that perhaps the fact that the woman spent far too long restrained that her entire disposition, regardless Dementia, would have been of nothing more and should have been an expected act from any human being being tied up, etc etc etc,"" ..But that is not how you wrote any of that story of which I commented on. So, save your "Part 2" for another time, and another person, but I will how-ever, highly suggest you to write more carefully, so you wont stand risk of being criticized.
My Mom has done the same thing to one of the CNA 's on memory care floor. In fact she has had a couple episodes and they call me to report. She is strong willed and the disease makes her angry and frustrated. However, I might have punched someone who tried to wash my hair after it was just done. How stupid or insensitive of the staff person to do that. The don't care all the time and just want to check off their lists. Your mom was obviously frustrated. We did give my mom a small dose of the anti anxiety med in the morning that she was only getting in the evenings. It seems to be helping.
I think "Hugemom" has some very good answers. UTI's cause all sorts of problems in the elderly. I am totally against drugging for difficult behavior. Find out the cause; there usually is a triggering that happens. If a person does not want to do something the staff wants or needs done, come back later and try. Sometimes people are also afraid/feel trapped/punished.
These discussions about not using anti anxiety meds often appear on this site. It woule be wonderful if they would not be needed. In cases where they are used everything else has been tried. There is no other option. There is a black box warning on many antianxiety and anti psychotic, that state they are not approved for treatment of anxiety in the elderly. All medications come with warnings that they are not to be taken by a specific population.
My mom is on one of these drugs and it is quite sad, but the only way to control her behavior. These is not another option. Without them mom is a danger to herself and others. Can the meds potentially cause other issues, increase chance of stroke, any number of other reactions. YES! But! There is not another option. In earlier stages of Alzheimer's it was possible to redirect her most of the time. Even though she was at home withme caring for her, behaviors became unmanageable.
You asked if it was "normal." I want to ask you to place yourself in her shoes. She has lived her life, most likely fairly independently. Most of us have an aversion to change, yet we somehow expect our loved ones, in their elder years, to adjust to a new "home" (small room) surrounded by strangers (other residents) with strangers (aides/nurses) taking care of us without being able (in their minds…allowed) to make decisions anymore. That is hard enough, but their care is usually not just how they would have done it, so it makes it harder.
We think with dementia (my dad has mod/sev Alzheimer's) it should be easier, but actually, I've seen two courses in dementia that can lead to paranoia and outbursts of anger. One is that the resident is so confused (often acutely…UTI, etc.) and nothing they see or do makes any sense. This makes them angry because they know that things are suddenly not right in themselves and there's nothing they can do to fix it. Like us when we get angry, they often just want to be left alone unless you're actually going to be able to fix their loss, which we usually cannot, at least not immediately.
Alzheimer's (maybe other dementias also?) also takes them back to their younger years when they were even more independent which makes it even harder for them to understand why they are being "forced" to do things according to these strangers' plans. If they are not completely incapacitated, they figure out eventually that there is no way "out" of their situation. If the caregivers are hurried, inattentive, or otherwise not truly wanting/able to make a connection with the residents, the residents will feel this and most will eventually react by either physical outbursts (as your mom did) or retreat inside themselves. Sometimes the aides need coaching that if mom/dad says "no" to a bath (or dinner, etc.), it's okay to listen to her and skip one or two. It gives her dignity and the ability to speak for herself on something, even if it seems like something that is not a big deal to us.
Caregivers are usually taught to redirect. In reality, it is better to direct than redirect, but time-wise, that's inefficient/impossible for NH because they cannot afford to have a 1-1 aide-resident ratio. It does sound like your mom just got upset with washing her do out. I would have been too. Maybe she got angry because she had already told them "no" and they did it anyway… I would not worry unless it becomes habitual. Yes, there are meds that can help, but I personally don't like to go there unless finding the underlying problem and working to correct it (me "retraining" the aides) does not stop the outbursts.
It's easy to say it is unacceptable but it is reality when they are at the stage that they need to be in a faciltiy. I wish my mom wouldn't have outbursts but she can't help it and they discourage putting her on an anti psychotic because it has lots of worse side effects. Thank GOD! So we all put up with it and the facility is very patient and helpful about redirecting her. Also, my mom had a UTI (and probably still has one) but when we tried to treat her with an anti biotic, she got CDIFF which almost killed her. Hospice was brought in and saved her life. Again Thank GOD! She is 93 and it becomes choosing which is the less of 2 evils. Nonetheless, this is our lives and we deal with it day to day.
Either this is an old post or I saw one very similar to it but if the patient already had her hair done by a beautician, obviously the patient is sharp enough to know this and was trying to protect her new do, good for her! if given the same situation I would've done the exact same thing she did. Obviously people with dementia or Alzheimer's still have some level of smarts about them and obviously she must still have some dignity about her if she's trying to protect a new do from someone coming along the next day and messing it up for her. When you have a new perm, last I knew, you had to wait a certain length of time before washing your hair after that perm was complete. Obviously this must've been the case or she never would've lashed out like she did
Medicating anyone must be in order to help the patient... NOT to help the staff or make their lives easier.
Extremely unhelpful - if not dangerous for staff to feel that a little dose of something to calm the residents is OK. It is certainly not OK and ought not to be given on consecutive nights.. rather than PRN - Again, for the benefit of the resident and not the staff.
Of course those suffering from dementia may hit out. My husband punched me hard in the face, bringing tears to my eyes, because I nipped his nose whilst clearing his nostrils. I didn't move quickly enough; as I do anticipate a little agitation when undertaking actions he may not want me to bother him with.
All par for the course.. No shame or annoyance should be directed towards the resident. It is the disease that causes the problems. A disease which they did not choose to contract!
My mother did this if the aides didn't make sure she heard what they wanted her to do. If they pushed, pulled or jerked her around she would smack them. If they talk loud enough for her to hear them, she is no problem. Seems like most hospitals, rehabs and nursing homes tend to hire young women that speak in a soft voice that sounds like a child. I call them Edith Ann's.
I guess they won't wash her hair .......right after she just got it done again LOL ....you go mom haha hope all is OK...it's normal I used to get hit all the time when I worked in a nursing home lol
The first thing I would want to know is what the staff was doing, were did they force her to wash her hair? If your mom was agitated and they approached her to wash her hair, the staff should have walked away and tried again at a later time or have a different staff attempt to wash her hair. If your mom is injured in any way when the staff is forcing her to do something (skin tear, bruise, broken bone, etc...) that is considered abuse and the staff could lose their license! With a resident who has dementia staff should look for verbal and non-verbal signs of the resident not wanting a particular treatment such as bathing, eating, therapy. The staff is required to try every approach possible to get her hair washed. She may be fearful of the water when it is sprayed on her head. If this is the problem the staff can use a dry shampoo and not have to get her head wet. Staff needs to find out why she is not wanting her hair washed and then address the reason.
If the staff has tried everything and she still gets agitated when it is time to wash her hair then that is time to talk to the doctor and get something for anxiety that staff could give her before to having her hair washed. This should be a last resort.
FYI: The most common refusal in a nursing home is bathing.
Some posters here lack compassion often times because they are overstressed from their own caregiving situation. It is often called compassion fatigue.
All i can add is that I was yelled at during my infamous 4 day stay in NH for rehab when I refused to get dressed and go to the dining room for breakfast. My infected hip replacement had just gushed out a lot of foul smelling fluid. I was told I need not go to the dining room but I MUST get dressed..Well I didn't and put on a nice clean gown and went back to bed. no breakfast but hubby arrived and took me straight back to the hospital. I did not hit anyone but might have done if someone laid hands on me with force. i contented myself with reporting the incident. Sometimes lashing out is the only weapon someone with dementia has left. I was serving morning tea on a geriatric ward once and the first patient was an old man who kept his cane on his lap at all times which we learned to avoid. I handed him his hot tea and as he reached for the cane some tea slopped and burned his hand so I escaped the cane that day. As most caregivers quickly learn you have to keep one step ahead of your loved one and try not to poke the tiger ( or in MsMadge's case the Viking)
Hope I die before I ever have to be in the care of anyone in some AL or NH. And those who don't understand, stop thinking of your parents as some sort of toddlers. They raised you, didn't they? Stop medicating elderly just so they are more compliant and easier to handle. Those psych meds are poison. Let people die naturally and stop prolonging useless life.
Some posters here lack compassion often times because they are overstressed from their own caregiving situation. It is often called compassion fatigue.
@Damita, speak for yourself, and yourself only. Nurses in AL residential homes are trained to deal with difficult patients. They are trained to duck blows and to restrain physically abusive patients. But that does not mean they can totally avoid the pain of pinching, scratching, punching etc from a patient lashing out. I think frustration bears a huge part in this.
It is people who care for the elderly at home who are often utterly helpless in the face of physical abuse towards them. They often have no training, no counselling on how to restrain their loved ones, or how far they can go to protect themselves.
The advantage of prescribed tranquilliser "happy pills" is to suppress the anxiety attacks that cause patients to lash out. My AL friend was always too frail for this, it was not in her nature, but ye gods she could pour out verbal bile and venom and potty language that she would have absolutely abhorred in her earlier life. But if a patient loses control over power to select words to express feelings, then punching and kicking may be their alternative. And yes, meds to render this less likely are perfectly acceptible. This is not "rendering the patient more compliant", but rather "rendering the patient less anxious".
Part of the reason health declines in nursing care is because of the monumental amounts of drugs they put people on. ALL drugs have side effects so what do you think MANY drugs will do? Not to mention the possible negative interactions between drugs. (Imagine giving a drug just to wash hair) Drs and Nurses are just guess workers, they don't KNOW what they think they do. They only "know" what the drug sellers (lobbyists with a stake in the game) tell them.
Watch the many user-uploaded videos on Youtube about how they improved or cured dementia. They are not ads nor are they "gaining" in any way from their claims. Stop relying on DRUGS or Doctors who have a stake in the sickness business!! There ARE cures for Alzheimers and Dementia and you won't know for sure until you try the many harmless (unlike drugs) therapies. Max Lugavere (Google, youtube and his own website) cured his own mother of Alzheimers and others have cured their loved ones who were in wheelchairs with Dementia. It is arrogant ignorance to dismiss out of hand that which you know nothing about.
Stop putting my opinion (that you don't agree with) continuously on the last page where people grow weary before making it there. New opinions should go on top so that people don't have to wade through the ones they have already seen to get to the new.
Posts are loaded in chronological order. It is easy to skip to the last page to catch up on the more recent posts if you have been following a thread; but those who are new to it will want to follow the discussion from start to finish, won't they.
You really don't have to spend long on the AC forum to know that the moderators are very far from censorious of opinions that they cannot possibly agree with.
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APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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So, it takes a lot of patience! I know that the staff don’t make good money. However, I really think some staff in nursing homes blame on the patients for hitting them and won’t admit what they did. Some of the people with dementia get very frustrated because they don’t know how to express their feelings.
We did give my mom a small dose of the anti anxiety med in the morning that she was only getting in the evenings. It seems to be helping.
My mom is on one of these drugs and it is quite sad, but the only way to control her behavior. These is not another option. Without them mom is a danger to herself and others. Can the meds potentially cause other issues, increase chance of stroke, any number of other reactions. YES! But! There is not another option. In earlier stages of Alzheimer's it was possible to redirect her most of the time. Even though she was at home withme caring for her, behaviors became unmanageable.
You asked if it was "normal." I want to ask you to place yourself in her shoes. She has lived her life, most likely fairly independently. Most of us have an aversion to change, yet we somehow expect our loved ones, in their elder years, to adjust to a new "home" (small room) surrounded by strangers (other residents) with strangers (aides/nurses) taking care of us without being able (in their minds…allowed) to make decisions anymore. That is hard enough, but their care is usually not just how they would have done it, so it makes it harder.
We think with dementia (my dad has mod/sev Alzheimer's) it should be easier, but actually, I've seen two courses in dementia that can lead to paranoia and outbursts of anger. One is that the resident is so confused (often acutely…UTI, etc.) and nothing they see or do makes any sense. This makes them angry because they know that things are suddenly not right in themselves and there's nothing they can do to fix it. Like us when we get angry, they often just want to be left alone unless you're actually going to be able to fix their loss, which we usually cannot, at least not immediately.
Alzheimer's (maybe other dementias also?) also takes them back to their younger years when they were even more independent which makes it even harder for them to understand why they are being "forced" to do things according to these strangers' plans. If they are not completely incapacitated, they figure out eventually that there is no way "out" of their situation. If the caregivers are hurried, inattentive, or otherwise not truly wanting/able to make a connection with the residents, the residents will feel this and most will eventually react by either physical outbursts (as your mom did) or retreat inside themselves. Sometimes the aides need coaching that if mom/dad says "no" to a bath (or dinner, etc.), it's okay to listen to her and skip one or two. It gives her dignity and the ability to speak for herself on something, even if it seems like something that is not a big deal to us.
Caregivers are usually taught to redirect. In reality, it is better to direct than redirect, but time-wise, that's inefficient/impossible for NH because they cannot afford to have a 1-1 aide-resident ratio. It does sound like your mom just got upset with washing her do out. I would have been too. Maybe she got angry because she had already told them "no" and they did it anyway… I would not worry unless it becomes habitual. Yes, there are meds that can help, but I personally don't like to go there unless finding the underlying problem and working to correct it (me "retraining" the aides) does not stop the outbursts.
Extremely unhelpful - if not dangerous for staff to feel that a little dose of something to calm the residents is OK. It is certainly not OK and ought not to be given on consecutive nights.. rather than PRN - Again, for the benefit of the resident and not the staff.
Of course those suffering from dementia may hit out. My husband punched me hard in the face, bringing tears to my eyes, because I nipped his nose whilst clearing his nostrils. I didn't move quickly enough; as I do anticipate a little agitation when undertaking actions he may not want me to bother him with.
All par for the course.. No shame or annoyance should be directed towards the resident. It is the disease that causes the problems. A disease which they did not choose to contract!
If the staff has tried everything and she still gets agitated when it is time to wash her hair then that is time to talk to the doctor and get something for anxiety that staff could give her before to having her hair washed. This should be a last resort.
FYI: The most common refusal in a nursing home is bathing.
Sometimes lashing out is the only weapon someone with dementia has left.
I was serving morning tea on a geriatric ward once and the first patient was an old man who kept his cane on his lap at all times which we learned to avoid. I handed him his hot tea and as he reached for the cane some tea slopped and burned his hand so I escaped the cane that day.
As most caregivers quickly learn you have to keep one step ahead of your loved one and try not to poke the tiger ( or in MsMadge's case the Viking)
Nurses in AL residential homes are trained to deal with difficult patients. They are trained to duck blows and to restrain physically abusive patients. But that does not mean they can totally avoid the pain of pinching, scratching, punching etc from a patient lashing out. I think frustration bears a huge part in this.
It is people who care for the elderly at home who are often utterly helpless in the face of physical abuse towards them. They often have no training, no counselling on how to restrain their loved ones, or how far they can go to protect themselves.
The advantage of prescribed tranquilliser "happy pills" is to suppress the anxiety attacks that cause patients to lash out. My AL friend was always too frail for this, it was not in her nature, but ye gods she could pour out verbal bile and venom and potty language that she would have absolutely abhorred in her earlier life. But if a patient loses control over power to select words to express feelings, then punching and kicking may be their alternative. And yes, meds to render this less likely are perfectly acceptible. This is not "rendering the patient more compliant", but rather "rendering the patient less anxious".
Watch the many user-uploaded videos on Youtube about how they improved or cured dementia. They are not ads nor are they "gaining" in any way from their claims.
Stop relying on DRUGS or Doctors who have a stake in the sickness business!!
There ARE cures for Alzheimers and Dementia and you won't know for sure until you try the many harmless (unlike drugs) therapies.
Max Lugavere (Google, youtube and his own website) cured his own mother of Alzheimers and others have cured their loved ones who were in wheelchairs with Dementia.
It is arrogant ignorance to dismiss out of hand that which you know nothing about.
You really don't have to spend long on the AC forum to know that the moderators are very far from censorious of opinions that they cannot possibly agree with.