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On of my cousins shared a pic online with the caption "Honesty has a power that very few people can handle."

To which I added in response.

"Although the truth can set one free, few people are comfortable with the honest truth and that's why there are so many living with so many secrets plus truths that they know but will not deal with either because it is too painful or because of fear."
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Any traumatic events, illnesses, etc. over a lifetime, can cause changes in behaviors over the lifetime, and magnify with age and infirmity.
The building blocks we learn as children--those foundational lessons every child must learn, to whatever proficiency they learn them, become foundations for everything we build upon those later over our lifetimes.
That's why early childhood development is so very important to get it right.
The wonkier the foundations, the crooked-er the building, so-to-speak.
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Often, when someone has been rather negative most of their lives [yes, they will deny that; in their minds, they have been Jolly Sunshine!], they will get worse as they age and lose autonomy. The more their miseries, the more negative.
It might look a bit different in different people.
Some need a target they can accuse and vent at.
Some complain of how rotten their lives are.
Others just can't say anything nice.

"Depression" is not the only trigger:
---old behavior patterns
---illnesses
---nutritional deficiencies
---brain injuries [includes strokes and dementias]
All these can cause a person to develop negative conversation patterns.
It can be VERY off-putting.
It sucks the life out of other people, particularly if those lack the ability to recognize what it is, and set realistic boundaries/limits on the elder's use of them. LOTS of people learned as children, that we're supposed to "be there" for our elders, and allow them to behave like that was OK--only it's not!
We got to the point it was safe to only allow contact via mail or email, when otherwise trying to set realistic limits on Mom's use of us, failed.
Only you can take into consideration what your elder's life has been like, what might contribute to the present behaviors, and if there might be an illness or deficiency contributing to the behaviors....
If you suspect something like that, it needs brought to the Doc's attention; be sure to explain Why you think there might be infection, nutritional deficiency, or possible brain injury.
Docs generally do not look for nutritional issues--they simply lack training, and what tiny bit they got in school, was largely erroneous. But they should easily be able to determine if there might be infections or brain injuries, and sort that from dementia.
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Perhaps she needs to engage in a hobby that she could perform and thus, take her mind off her life.
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irishboy...not everyone is on medicaid...my uncle was very happy living in a retirement home after his wife died. he only paid $2200 a month and that took care of all his food, which was served to all in a nice diningroom, house cleaning once a week, free transportation busses...and a few other extras! there are options...but most of the time it's because seniors DO NOT want to leave their home...and I get that. but it sure couldn't hurt to try. ok..that's my 2 cents..
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I go through that with my mom, too. I hadn't talked to her in a while because she always makes up or imagines things and then just will not let things go. But I try to help her. But everything is a complaint. She's miserable about everything and does nothing. I can't even get her to agree to be driven to the grocery store so she can pick what she wants. It's all negative. Even when she got some free food from the county and had meals on wheels, she complained endlessly, like it was an insult to be given a plate of lasagna instead of potatoes. It's charity! What does she want!
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I don't know if it is any better, or not, but my folks don't say much of anything!!! Mother scowls a lot, but I think it is because she is concentrating on remembering something. However, it is disconcerting, so I tell her something funny or I touch her face and pull up the sides of her mouth, gently!! she always responds with her beautiful smile!! This may not help anyone out there, but MY attitude is a big influence on her. We have them in AL so our visits now are centered on them instead of what has to be done around the house etc. etc. I can tell by these posts that we are truly blessed!!
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I know this gets exhausting for me as I'm the only adult 'child' that gets dumped on... (The others never come around). It is draining... I've tried every 'trick' in the book to 'help' brighten my Mother's Day and after trying for a decade now, I know it will never happen. They are ingrained and mainly concerned about what they are thinking and by God... No one and nothing is going to change them. Amen
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The thread I started is "Is it normal she is so negative"
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I had the same issue with my mom exactly. I started a thread last year and I have really learned from what many have said. It finally got so bad that I did pull away. This time for good. The negativity was "killing" me slowly. I feel so much better since I haven't had to listen to the constant complaining. i.e. the food is terrible, what if you had to live here (AL), you put me here and dropped me off (no, I didn't), the staff is rude (no they are not)...get the point? Yes, I feel your pain to the deepest degree. I know people mean well when they say things like: change the subject or maybe they need sympathy--NO! That is not what they need. That is not going to change their behavior. Since I haven't been going back to AL to listen to how bad of a daughter I am or how bad my kids are---they are not, I have great kids and I practically gave up my life to care for her over the past 5 years.--My mom is now doing this to the staff. The director finally had to go and say something to her about her behavior. It calmed down for a bit, but she is back in full force. Yes, maybe it is their illness or maybe they are in pain, we really don't know, but no caregiver especially a daughter shouldn't be taking that abuse. Enjoy your "old" age if you please and do what is best for you. Our mothers had that opportunity once and blew it. Good luck!!
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I suspect this is probably dementia and depression and YES it is VERY tiresome. With my mother (who is ALSO very negative). I have three different maneuvers that I use all the time and just continuously rotate. 1) I change the subject onto anything else. 2) I just say; 'yeah' a couple of times and I distract her. 3) I just tell her lets change the subject and I talk about something positive that I know will keep her interested. The most challenging part can be is that negativity is highly contagious. Stay strong and treat yourself to something special after a visit, you deserve it.
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My simple answer is probably not. Most of the time, spending time trying to fix people and change their behavior, is an exercise in futility. When behavior of this sort is ingrained in a person it's not venting it's an addiction for them. Look up addiction to negativity there is some interesting information out there. It would take professional help and a willingness on your Moms part for her to change. You can't do it.

What you can do is focus on how you might better cope and protect yourself from her negativity. That could mean a number of things because what works for one does not work for us all. Counseling and or support groups are good for this. Best of luck to you.
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My mother, who has Alzheimer's has gone through a similar thing, where all her memories about people are negative ones. For instance, the only thing she remembers about her own mother, was that she had Alzheimer's.
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Yes, traumatic event often do change a person's personality. I'm sure mine changed with various traumatic events in my life. I'm sure that one big traumatic event in my MIL's life did change her outlook on men greatly, but from her childhood stories that she told her daughters, she's always been stubborn. What made her such a self absorbed narcissist with some borderline issues like abandonment, the mental health world has yet to fully understand. In the 33 years that I've known her, she's no different now at 87 than she was at 54 as far as personality goes.

I did mention that we can make adjustments if we see the need which some people don't and even among those who do like my SIL, the change involves more pain than they want to work through.

I didn't mean to sound deterministic.

Much does depend on how the person chooses to respond to things which for some their family of origin makes it more difficult to chose a healthy way to respond verses an unhealthy.

I guess I should have said that with various exceptions, we tend to be basically who we were unless we make a valiant effort to change and the older we get, the less open to change we tend to be.

Many caregivers here seem to often be stuck in family of origin issues that is making it very difficult to deal with aging parents who were difficult when the person was a child. To rule out recent changes, I almost always ask if this is how their parent always has been or if this is a recent change and go from there.

Basically much of the outcome depends on how we respond and our responses don't take place in a vacuum. There are also various social, psychological and other factors in play.

I'm glad that I'm not totally the product of my childhood, but although I have made choices along the way , my childhood did impact me and even impacted how I responded to things in the wrong way before I got into therapy.
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Simple. Read the Bible to her. Some stories she might remember. This will also comfort her if she is a Christian.
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I saw a similar situation with my mother when she was in rehab after surgery. She was so depressed, wouldn't socialize, wouldn't join in any activities, wouldn't do her PT. I asked for a psych work-up and the doctor put her on Mirtazapine. The change was like someone flipped a switch; from darkness to light. I'm suggesting your Mom may needs appropriate meds and companionship. There are home health care agencies that offer aides that not only administer meds and such, but provide much needed social interaction.
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Cmagnum, interesting perspective. I've also read of pundits who claim that it's not unusual to be liberal when young but more conservative with age...not a personality trait but an opinion on changing perspectives.

If perspectives can change, I would think personality traits could as well, especially if someone makes a sincere and dedicated effort.

I respect your opinion but don't necessarily think that we're products of what we were when younger. And I do think that caregiving, as well as financial constraints, change people - but not everyone changes for better or for worse. It depends on the individual.

I would also argue that traumatic events can cause psychological changes well beyond anything anticipated - military service in combat zones, for example.
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GardenArtist,

Our personality traits manifest more intensely as we age. Anything we have been hiding behind a mask become more difficult to hide and it comes out.

This is why making any adjustments need to be made early to ourselves if we are aware soon enough that we need to change. Otherwise, we are who we are.
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In defense of "helpmemom," I would ask some to re-read her post. This is not merely a reaction to a new situation, it has been on-going for a very, very long time, decades, and is now just getting worse. It is very easy to imagine that others are withholding understanding, sympathy, and empathy, until we offer those things for decades to no avail. I know many children and grandchildren in the US and in Germany who have simply been worn down to a sort of "survival state" by this negativity.

Hang in and get some help. Look into a geriatric doctor and the right meds. You may be surprised.
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If I start to focus on conspiracy theories or that the gov't is after me, I use my mind to correct my thinking, and remind myself that I am just not that important. I have a friend and we discuss these things, but we always follow with, what is positive that day. We both hate it that our adult children just say: 'that was in the past; that is just a conspiracy theory; or, that is just negative'. The problem is to have anything we say devalued and not listened to, just to be shut up. I guess it would take a caring and intelligent person to distract an ill person's focus, especially when the focus is delusional.
You can start the conversation by saying what is good.
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I see myself in everyone's response. I catch myself only speaking
of negative things with my health. Not to justify, but picture their side.
I have spent 5 days alone with no visits or phone calls and I have great
children. However, they have lives of their own nod families also. I luckily
can still do most of my own care taking. But find myself telling my family
about the things I can't do and sometimes I only have negative things to
talk about. I do try not to ask if I can possibly do something on my own.
I have ask my family to remind me when I get on the downside so I can
change subject. Sometimes it works when they bring it to my attention. I have no one to talk to either positive or negative and it's hard being alone.
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cjbailey, that must be tough with your dad. You and your sons clearly try to get your dad interested, but he has no interest.

But in the case of the OP we don't hear about any attempt to do this. If she is just showing up to take her mother to the doctor and nothing else, well that would put anyone in a bad mood.

Too Young for This, I think you hit the nail on the head. It must be very difficult to see everyone who is your peer die or be sick.

Lifeexperience, that sounds nice. But that costs $$$$$. You're looking at easily $4k a month for that, and more in some parts of the country. You make it sound like it's so easy. $4K * 12 = $48K a year.
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yikes.. 85 and all alone!? im sure she suffering from depression and being very lonely! this wouldn't be good for anyone. can you get her in a nice senior living apt. those are awesome....great meals are served in nice dining rooms, and lots of activities for seniors!
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As I've been reading the responses here, I kept remembering two women I worked with at my last job. One was somewhat morose, always seemed to be if not unhappy, just not happy; she never smiled. I know part of the situation was our mutual boss, but we both had choices and could leave (which we both did eventally).

Another was worse - I never once saw her smile; she always had a scowl on her face. Her boss was different than ours - he was personable (hot, too!), she didn't have a difficult workload, but just was a sourpuss.

After her brother had a heart attack, I asked a few days later how he was doing. She snapped at me with a retort something to the effect of "how do you THINK he's doing??!!". I said I was sorry to have disturbed her and never bothered to speak to her again unless it was just a good morning.

Now I'm wondering how many of the elders being discussed here were like this 20, 30 and 40 years ago? I know some of their dissatisfaction is age related as well as their current conditions, but I can't help wondering if these are personality traits that manifest more intensely as life gets worse.
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I think we are missing your mom's point she can't drive she would like to see a doctor for this or that she's dropping you big hits that she needs your help and you are missing the point of her talk hey I am not her age but I don't like to go to doctors alone and they make good excuses to spend the day with you after shopping or eating out or just sitting in a park rather then in her yard or house not knocking you your a wonderful girl but take her out to stuff o rt call make her doctor appointment and drive her then tell her your plans to have a coffee with her on the way back and we'll the senior center is OK but I belong to one and old or young they have cicks groups of men and lady's who treat you like outsiders so unless she has friends who go it is best you go with here to help her get in with a few feindy ones I am an open person with a who cares addatued so I am not bothered by the littlegroup minded people iI greet everyone with love but she may feel out of place with those people unless you are there to make her at easy and companions are welcome in these senior groups its not like dropping a kid in school and even they have a hard time I want you to know the same snobby kids don't grow old and become nice with age they just get old and nothing is diffent
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Veronica, does your husband watch those survivalist programs in which people retreat into bunkers and stockpile for an Armageddon? I was surprised how many people have adopted this approach and see the federal government as a usurper of democracy as well as just a menace. Some of those people are so paranoid it's frightening.

As I've read these posts about dementia and the various ways it presents in different people, I keep wondering if it narrows one's focus so much that people resort to basic survival concepts - i.e., protecting oneself from the government, focusing on the negative, developing unreasonable fears... just a thought.
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I can't add anything helpful as everyone else has covered it.
i will just add that my hubby is totally negative with remarks like'It's the govt spying on us" The Internet provider has changed all my password the govt is tracking me" we have to prepare for what's coming" "Cash in your 401K and buy gold" other than that he is reading medical journals to research real and imagined diseases. now he has been loaned an anchant book from the 1700s written by a Dr of that time describing approaches to treatment like the use of leeches and treating patients with hyrophobia by blood letting till they died or suffocating them between two matresses. the author is forward thinking enough to disagree with many of these practices and way ahead of his time in some of his treatments.
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My mother is the same way, and it is annoying, but I understand it. And I'll tell you why.

My mother will be 87 in October. All of her siblings are dead. Most of her friends are dead too. My father died in 1992. She lives with me. She is in good medical health for her age, she still drives to church, to the bank, to the grocery store, to get her hair done. She has almost all of her marbles (although her memory is pretty bad). She has no hobbies or friends to do things with. She is hard of hearing, sometimes wears her hearing aids & sometimes she doesn't. She doesn't owe a penny to anyone, has excellent health insurance, has a good pension from my father & social security every month, and wants for nothing. She has severe spinal stenosis, for which she had a procedure done in December that eradicated almost 100% of the pain. She had very early stage 1 colon cancer in 2009 that she had a colon resection for & did not need radiation or chemo, so she got away lucky with that one. I buy most of the groceries in the house, as well as things for improvements & fixing stuff. I'm good like that, LOL.

Why does she complain & why is she so negative?

Because what else does she have in her life except other elderly people's health problems, other elderly people dying, her back pain gradually coming back, the fear of cancer coming back, etc. She's lucky I live with her, or else she'd have no one to talk to on a daily basis. I have 2 brothers, but they don't really come to see her & call her every now & then. I get it. I don't enjoy it, but I get it. When you're closer to death than you are to birth, I think mortality is always on your mind. Every ache & pain makes you think it's the end.

When I hear people say they want to live to be 100 years old, I laugh. Do those people realize that by that time, all of your friends will be dead, if you're the youngest all of your siblings will be dead, your spouse will probably be dead, you most likely won't be able to live by yourself or drive a car or make your own meals or take a shower/bath by yourself, you'll be deaf, etc? People think when they say they'd like to live to be 100 years old that they'll be in the same shape they were in when they were 50 years old, and that's not the case. The human body is like a car---when you're born, you're like a brand new, shiny car being driven off the lot. As you get older, just like a car, things start to break & need fixing & replacing, the paint starts to peel & rust begins to appear, the tires lost their tread, there are little dents & dings & scratches, and if you manage to keep the car for 30 years, other cars have come along with much better technology so the other cars that would have been 30 years old become obsolete & you don't see them on the road anymore. You're the only 30 year old car left on the road. Who wants to drive a 30 year old car that has rust, dents, bald tires, no radio or air conditioning, broken radio, torn up seats? The owner of the 30 year old car would be complaining about all of those things, just like an elderly person complains about everything in their life.

As I said, my mother complains & is negative-----and I don't like it & it is annoying & frustrating, but I get where she's coming from. I try to keep that in mind, but sometimes I do have to distance myself from her or I'll end up the same way.
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Irishboy,I know you weren't responding to me..but I would love to take my dad to lunch, but his idea of lunch is McDonalds drive thru. Doesn't want to eat in public at a real restaurant. My sons have tried to talk to him about his army days and he won't talk about it. All his memories and knowledge will be lost. Won't go to a senior center either. Those are great suggestions. I hope they help someone. And I agree, taking someone to see a psychiatrist is tough. These folks grew up in an age where seeing a "shrink" was a stigma. Maybe it still is...
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Do you ever incorporate a lunch when you do take your mother to a Dr appt? Give her something to look forward to? Have you looked into any senior centers in your area you could take her to? Do you ever try and talk to your mother about her life as a young woman?

Granted no one wants to hear negativity, but if you were a elderly widow who has no way to get out of the house you would be negative to.

Your mother doesn't need see someone like a psychiatrist, I love people who immediatedly suggest that without looking at the situation or putting themselves into the person's shoes.

I think most of us would be depressed/negative is if the only time we get to leave the house is to go to the doctor. Try adding lunch or maybe even a movie after the Dr. appt.
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