Mom's telling nurses and social workers that my dad beats her, she fears for her life. What will come of this?

I have noticed that some of the replies to this question referenced things like UTI's an 'elderly'. From what I am reading from the questioner's standpoint, this woman is in her 50's or so. Most 50 somethings do not have chronic UTIs', dementia, etc. Also, a person who is attempting to manipulate by accusations is what I consider to be at the very least self serving and/or mentally deranged, or just plain vindictive and dangerous. I think the call your bluff approach is warranted here. She could potentially create a nightmare for someone who gets in her way.

This site seems to be having technical issues... wish I could remember exactly what I wrote in my reply that went nowhere...going to try again and remove the slashes (which is stupid, but whatever).

Basically this: your mom sounds either mentally ill (beyond any age-related dementia), and-or is NPD (Google the symptoms, you'll know if it fits or not). Either way, she needs help beyond what you can give her. Speak to her doctors, tell them what she's doing, saying, be proactive about it. Both for her sake as well as you and your dads'.

I'm not one of those who's going to suggest you ignore her rantings and ravings, or feel sorry for her. I also don't believe there's any basis for her paranoia, or that anything outside of her own head is making her fearful.

This may also be an act, for attention. If so, if it were me, I'd call her bluff. She can't stand living with you "horrible people"? That can be changed.

Do what you can to get her evaluated or put on a 72 hour psych eval-hold. Don't let a crazy person, even the one who gave birth to you, run your life. You may need to walk away to save yourself. I know that may sound harsh, but being "ruled" by someone who's mentally ill and not being treated has a way of killing the caregiver's soul. Don't let that happen to you.

Wyndie & frustrated2 have given me an idea. You already indicated police have been involved so I suggested that you talk to Detective about your moms claims regarding your father. Your dad obviously loves your mom but it seems to me that he is in denial about her situation and what the ramifications could be to him. Without his permission, I again suggest you go to a detective but talk to him or her about making a complaint against your mom because she abused your dad in front of you and ask about the 72 hour hold because she is a danger to him and when she gets riled up she is a danger to herself and they take a fall. This way you get it on record that she has hit him. He may not like that you do this but the two of you need a break from her.

When I was 23, my great aunt and spiritual mentor who had raised my mother and two other siblings after my grandparents died, was like a grandmother to me. Her sister, my other great aunt, had cancer that metastases ised to her brain and experienced delirium, now cause dementia. The sick aunt and my mother have been estranged since my mother (who was now 27) had been 17 from a circumstance everyone agreed with the fault of the aunt. When I was just a two week old baby, my special aunt dropped by my mothers to see me and brought the disagreeable aunt. My never thought she had time to bury the hatchet so to speak, but noooooooo. She just sat in the car wouldn't speak and didn't look at me. I think my special aunt brought her disagreeable sister hoping for a reconciliation but do I need to tell you my mother was done forever?

Fast forward to 1968, my special but single great aunt with caregiving the other, even though the other had a husband who would not lift a finger. She was staying in their apartment 24/7 while the retired Mr flitted around doing his unimportant errands. My aunt asked for my help but under the circumstances felt I had to get permission for my mother to not violate her position. She wanted no part of it it said I could help if I wanted to. So for 6 months until my aunt died, I went over2 nights a week after work I went over to spell my aunt, and also all day Saturday and Sunday morning. I learned a lot about caretaking and people (ugh...the user husband, I even brought over a TV for the bedroom b/c he wouldn't allow the living room set to be moved even though he only watched a couple of hours a day!)

So, kitty, it is with consideration to my personal experience that I made the comment to Celly regarding age. are you intended those three sentences at the top to be taken together. I was not denigrating her age, it was more sympathy that she was being thrown into a heavy burden very early on. And not that she didn't have ANY life experience, and this is it true everyone, but many in that age group unless it had education professional experience haven't learned coping skills to deal with such massive shifts in personality as come on with old age. I hope Celly took it the way it was intended and not any other.

I I told my story to give you perspective ny believe what I said and that my only intention was to be sympathetic and now I can also add and I think what she is handling is huge and she's being very heroic.

And Celly please don't overlook the possibility of alcohol dementia. If it even could do that, it's one of the only dimensions that might be reversible. You never know please don't delay. Even my mothers sisters doctors said we might have reversed it if we had just gotten to it a couple of years earlier.

I agree with everyone here, she is in hospital and should have a thorough medical work up including physical and mental health work up. Any additional medical history you or her primary care physician can supply will be helpful to them. INSIST that they complete a diagnosis and prognosis before her discharge.

INSIST on a mtg with her doctors and your dad and yourself before you accept her release. If you must, get the case worker or hospital social worker involved now to review her care plan and follow up.

She needs help and you and your dad may not have the skill set to deal with her without a good plan.

Regarding the accusations and her fear, the doctors will listen and make an assessment, if they think her accusations have substance, they may get social worker involved or adult protective services to investigate further. They should talk to you and your dad and maybe other neighbors or family members to get all sides (it's different with children than adults).

She sounds young but we don't know all the history, drug interactions, alcohol or other that may be part of the family history here.

Seek the doctors help to find her a safe facility to recover vs coming back home to you and your dads care if you don't think she is well or stable enough. If I were you, I would state that you are not available to provide or oversee her care going forward.

IMO this situation likely won't get better over the long term and you are too young to get sucked in. Tell your parents you'll support them but won't be able to be their ultimate crutch or provide caregiving responsibilities.

Good luck dear and keep us all posted.

I am so sorry for what is happening to you and your family. This sounds so familiar to me as I to was young( just 15) when this was starting to happen to my mom. My mom was't on any kind of morphine or drinking, but she was definitely becoming more disoriented by the day. We used to have a good spiritual family unit and when I was about 13 things took a horrific change.She was just evil to my dad and the accusations that were way off the wall. They made no sense the scenes, her fits of rage. I tried to get my cousins attention to it because I was young and felt that help was needed. Sure enough about three years later when things got real crazy she ended up in the hospital and was diagnoised with Alz. I wish this upon no one as it is horrible to watch someone you love to turn into such a stranger right in front of you. I was very young and knew very little if anything at all about the disease, but what I did know for sure is that something was really off. I felt so bad for my dad a he was just a giant teddy bear and was the sole support of the family. She didn't last the 10 years that they normally give, it was more like 6. I guess my point here is this can happen rapidly as well. I know that I didn't really tell you anything that is very constructive, but I thought that I would share my experience with my mom. My heart goes out to you as this is no way easy. My prayers are with you. Take care of you and your dad he will need your support.

Two possibilities:
a. She needs antipsychotic medication
b. She has a urinary tract infection, which makes elderly people act insane.

Best wishes.

Thank goodness health care workers, police did not believe my husbands accusations over a year ago. He was being horrible to me and saying awful things to me and our son. Let the professionals handle your situation. They were wonderful to my family. The first thing they said to me was " We do not believe anything he is telling us". Shew what a relief that was! Its exhausting to everyone involved. I sure hope things get better for you and take care.

You say you live with your Mother and Father correct? I sure hope you do as he may need you as a witness to the fact that he is not beating your mother or causing falls. Someone at some point may listen to what she says and decide that she is not as crazy as she seems, but has real fears and concerns where your father is concerned. At which point IF there is no witness to the day and point in question, your father will have an Adult Protective Services Social Worker show up at his front door to question him about the incident(s) of abuse. This worker is on a fact finding mission, sent to collect all the information possible, and turn it over to the attorneys in the office to determine IF CHARGES NEED TO BE FILED AGAINST YOUR FATHER. If charges are filed your father does stand the chance of jail time.

So now you are not only caring for your mother, but you are faced with fighting these false charges she is making against him. It might be in his best interest to leave the house if at all possible for a while just to see how your Mom reacts. She may get better or get worse and turn on you and now launch accusations against you.

Please read the statements that papadoc has written to you as well. Although you do love your father and he is a kind and gentle man, everyone gets tired and reaches there wits end and while it is entirely possible that your mother falls a lot on her own, you have to ask the "What if" question. By making arrangements for him to leave for a while you will be better able to determine at least in your own mind what is happening.

An acquaintance of mine is a very nice lady with a son and daughter and husband. The husband seems like a dream, he was a decent provider, went to church all the time and when he retired, he told her she no longer had to work either. When she needed to go to the grocery store, he went too, when she wanted to go to garage sales, he laid out the route to all of them and drove her. He was always at her side no matter what, he was pleasant and kind to her and others in public. When she confided in her friends and daughter that she wanted a divorce everyone was in utter shock! Why would she want to divorce such a wonderful man?

It turns out that this kind man was kind when others could see what was going on, even around his children. What he did in private was belittle her constantly, use the Bible against her as though he was her master and she was to obey him. He told her to quit her job when he retired because he wanted to make sure he was in charge of what she did every single day and he even accused her of affairs at work even though she worked with no men. When she tired to tell her children what was happening neither would believe her, they thought their father walked on water! They also told her that if she chose to leave their Godly father they would have nothing further to do with her, she would be considered dead to them.

She stayed and I wondered why, did she not have money to live on? No, the bulk of their money had actually come from an inheritance of HERS. She could not stand the thought of losing her children and friends from church, so she is still there being belittled and beaten down more and more each day. She is not allowed to leave the house alone and no one is allowed to visit without his permission and he must be in attendance. He too is a very kind person on the outside.

I have told you this not to say this is your father, but just to give you insight as to what happened to another person who was married to the perfect man, it isn't always what it seems behind closed doors in all cases.

If your father has been faced with this behavior for a long time, then he really deserves some rest and recuperation time anyway. Let him go on a vacation to someplace he loves or to visit other family for a while. He needs some down time and will be able to come back with a renewed spirit.

You do not mention that your Mom has a mental illness but something does seem to be going on there to use Morphine and then you said she drinks, neither of which makes for a clear sound mind,

Did your parents ever have a Trust written up? Within the Trust there is normally provisions for POA, which is usually the spouse. If your Mom won't give you her POA at this moment, if your Dad leaves for a while, you may be able to get her to calm down and agree to the POA. You want to tell her it is for use in the future, IF AND ONLY IF IT IS NEEDED OR SHE BECOMES ILL. Do not tell her you need it now because she is crazy. That is a sure fire way to NEVER get her to agree to it. Also, never call her crazy, she has medical and possibly mental issues which is a medical problem.

I am sure from reading this site, you must already know that when a person becomes mentally incompetent or declared as having Alzherimer's it is basically too late to get them to sign over their POA to you. An attorney will want to speak to your mother alone before doing this as he has to make sure it is not being done under duress and he has to know she is mentally stable and able to make this decision for herself.

If she is not mentally able to do it, then you will have to seek to become her guardian which will require an attorney, it is long,drawn out, and expensive.

As a final note, may I suggest that you and your father go to see a therapist....not because you are crazy but because they can help you in so many ways. They are a great place to vent your frustrations to an outside third party, they have insight and solutions that we do not always see, and lastly they can document what is happening with your mother as you discuss what has gone on during the week and you may need to ask them to make sure they do document it. This could prove to be invaluable to you in the future, should charges ever be filed against you or your father. I treasure my time with my therapist as it is an hour out of the house and I am conversing with an intelligent person who helps to guide me through this maze. There are senior agencies that offer free counseling so if cost is an issue you don't have to worry.

If your Mom is able and willing you might want to have her see a therapist as well, it may help with her issues.

I have been where you are and I hope God Blesses you on this journey.

I am so sorry this is happening to your family. I agree with the other posts except for the one about how young you are and lack life experience. Your concerns and fears are share by many of the caregivers on this site that are twice your age - so your age has nothing to do with how alarmed or upset you are. You have a right to feel this and express it without the invalidation of your age. I was taking care of my elderly parents in my early 20's and most people who knew me said I was wise beyond my years when I was in my early teens. I did not experience age discrimination very often, but I did - and yes young caregivers do experience age discrimination. Don't let people tell you that because you are such a young age that you do not have life experience. You have legally been an adult for 10 years and not that many years ago most women used to be finished having their children before your age. Many children have a lot of life experience - it all depends on what life deals us and it seems some are wiser than others at a younger age. Many people who have lived years do not understand a lot of what caregiving is about because of their lack of experience with caregiving. You are a wonderful caring daughter and your parents are fortunate to have you. Please take care of yourself and be gentle with yourself.

You can consider having your mother Baker-acted for her own safety. This can be done anonymously I think. They would have to keep her 72 hours for evaluation, and you must believe she is a danger to herself or others. As someone above said, nobody really ever knows what goes on between two people if they aren't there all the time, but I HAVE a mother who behaves like this (she is 78) as far as accusing others of whatever flies into her head. She has no problems lying to suit her situation and she can be very charming (she is NPD for sure) so it amazes me the people who will believe her, a complete crazy person in my book. My dad has always 'taken' her abuse and expects others, esp. me, to do the same. She has never accused my dad of physically hurting her, but I could see her doing that. Lies like this coming from someone who appears credible, especially with domestic abuse laws being what they are, could do irreparable damage to your dad's reputation if her statements are not true. 72 hours would certainly give her a chance to dry out, if drinking is the problem. She would be evaluated and she would also know that she is being watched and there will be a consequence if she thinks she can be manipulative. This is not a punishment. It is protection - for her and for those around her. It doesn't sound to me that she will go along with anyone's advice or offered help. She sound dangerous, actually, and your dad is most likely so used to it, he can't see the forest for the trees either.

When I first started by post, there weren't any answers. Now I see the few people have responded. Good, I guess they showed up in everybody's email today. You need to be clear with everyone that you speak to about your mom how concerned you are with the fact that this is not her normal behavior and that you don't understand how she can be saying the things that she saying when you know they aren't true. Be a witness to the facts that your dad is very kind to her and that will go a long ways being supportive of him. He sounds like he's a bit frail as well but as long as he is competent he could be the one to make the medical decisions. Your mom needs to see a dr and probably have some lab test for her blood chemistry to see what's going on with her. If it is true, that your mother drinks or becomes drunk, do not overlook telling that to the doctor. My aunt had a very low tolerance for alcohol. She drank a mild amount but it caused great brain damage in her case. In other words, for some people it doesn't take much.

Its true that most if not all health care professionals mandated reporters and they must by law reported any reports of abuse, however, your mom isn't yet considered elder (under elder abuse and unable to protect herself) nor is she a minor...the laws are designed to protect elders and minors; for ex if i tell a health care provider that I at age 55 am being abused by my spouse they don't have to report it to any entity but the would direct me to agencies that would help me...but when there is an elder or minor involved the laws must protect them as they don't have a voice of their own. Be warned, someone could report and someone could investigate. It does sound like she requires medical treatment for withdrawal from morphine, alcohol abuse/consumption, paranoia and so on. Get her the medical treatment that she needs for everyone's sake. As I understand it, acquiring a Guardian is costly and you will no longer have a say about her...see the group boomers against elder abuse...

Celly - I'm having a little trouble understanding why this important message is just popped up in my email today, 5 days after you posted ??? I'm assuming no one else got it either as there are no answers.

I went first to read your profile. You are 28 - very young to be doing with the caregiving. And probably without a lot of life experience yet. Makes understanding psychological and psychiatric behavior a little more difficult. You've also stated you're dirt poor and that your mom is 63. That means unless she's disabled she's not on Medicare. What is her insurance, private or HMO? Is your dad 65 or more and on Medicare yet?

In your posting, you said you seen your mom hit your dad in the face when drunk and your dad never lifted a hand to her afterward. Who I was drunk, mom? I sense a bit of paranoia in her concern over being killed. She sounds like she's in the early stages or even moderate of dementia. It may not be Alzheimers. If she has been a drinker, there is a form of dementia called Werneke-Korsakoff syndrome. It's primarily from a vitamin B-1 (thiamine) deficiency and can be reversible in the early stages. Left untreated, enough brain damage can occur as to leave the individual with dementia even if the missing nutrient is replaced and the person stops drinking. You MUST get her to the doctor immediately for an evaluation.

The problem with elder abuse is that many people are considered "mandated reporters" and they are charged with the responsibility of passing on any claims of abuse even if its just a suspicion. Normally it's usually better to fly under the radar of official bureaucracy when you can. But in your case, as you say the police have already been involved, although you don't explain why or how, you might consider going down yourself to the police station and talking to a detective about what's happened in the past and what you know to be true and see if they would document this for you and may even come and do what's called a well check, and maybe do that before the doctor evaluation.

Will your mom cooperate with going to the doctor? One of the things you off and have to do with dementia people or paranoid people is fib to them a little bit to get them to do something did they need to do for their own good like going to see the doctor. For example, you could tell her you need her to go to help you with something. Then absolutely do not tell her and when she's actually in the exam room, without addressing her, begin telling the doctor your concerns. If she flips out, the doctor should know the signs. If the Dr doesn't respond adequately, you just need to stand your ground, don't let the Dr be bullied by your mom, and insist on getting some answers.

I'm sure there will be many other ideas and suggestions but for me, I can't go any further until you make a move and let us know what's going on. You will get a lot of support here to help you through your crisis.

Trish and Papadoc's answers were right on. Unless you're living w/ your parents, and seeing everything that is going on all of the time, it would be hard to know if some of what she is saying has a grain of truth to it. Most likely it is paranoia and mental issues that could be a result of the morphine withdrawal. However, as stated by Trish and Papadoc, professionals know this type of behavior, and your father will not be arrested on something stated by someone who is mentally unstable. I agree with the comments that whether your Mom is in danger from your Dad or not, if she THINKS she is, then she should be able to go to a safe environment until she feels normal again, and not frightened that someone is going to kill her. Your Dad sounds like a kind and gentle soul. But it is strange that your Mom is so afraid. And it must be horrible for her, as well as for him to be accused of terrible behavior if he is innocent.) Best of luck with this, and don't worry about your Dad being arrested. That is most unlikely if he is innocent.

If she has other mental issues, the medical staff will take this with a grain of salt. Your mother isn't the first to invent stories. But they probably will check it out... they should! Beatings do happen and few abusers admit to it. Not only could they lose their licensing for not reporting it, there could be financial liability if they ignored it.

It is entirely possible that you could have a problem. While people do fall, they also get shoved and knocked down. It can be hard to tell the difference.

How the medical staff looks at this will be dependent on all of your other medical issues. As a matter of course, they are required to report suspected abuse to authorities who will investigate. They will probably interview all of you, possibly neighbors or others who might know.

What happens from that point on is dependent upon what they find.

Something is making your mom very frightened, and that should be your immediate concern...alleviating her intolerable fear. I'm not saying this to be unkind, but I would worry less about people blaming your dad (you must realize that trained professionals will recognize your mom's paranoia), and focus more on where to put your mother. If she keeps falling, it's not a safe environment for her. And of course, the stress for you and your father is harmful to your health. Ask her doctor and social worker for referrals to a 24-hour care home where she can safely withdraw from her morphine addiction. I really urge you to stop worrying so much about what people will think; medical professionals hear that all of the time. You've told them that your father is loving and non-violent, now you need to find some peace for yourself. Like someone else wrote, an attorney who specializes in elder affairs can help. Ask to see a hospital social worker asap. Best of luck to you.

Sounds like your Mom is ready for a permanent guardian. Ask the social worker for an attorney referral. An attorney can do a emergency temporary guardianship. Hang in there.