I’ll try and make this short. My sister and her husband live in mom’s house. Mom is retired, 82 and has short term memory loss and now, cancer. I live out of state and visit as much as I can, talk to her every day and offer some financial assistance. My sister because she helps pay mortgage and is a care giver tells me she owns the house with her husband. She is also POA. Though mom is still alive I made it very clear sister does not own the house until mom is no longer with us she is adamant that she and husband are partial owners. Paying mortgage does not make one the owner but she doesn’t let it sink in. I wanted to visit and spend more time with mom as I do not have the financial resources to pay for hotels this would be the best option. I would assist with some bills and spend time with mom walking, cooking etc. (whatever needs to be done). I am told I can stay at the house only after her my sister speaks to her husband. Now there have been NO domestic disputes whatsoever and I have no criminal record. Sister has a type a persona and controls all around her with an iron fist, unfortunately I do not agree. Given my mom’s fragile situation I did get upset over the issue and told her via phone. What legal reason does my sibling have to contest she owns the house and not allow family to stay? Sorry I’ve no one to turn to and I am frustrated that she acts in such poor manner given there are only the three of us left alive in the family sister, brother and mom. Any tips or opinions would be gladly reviewed even if not in my favor. Thanks!
I hope, myself, that as POA she has seen an elder law attorney with mom and has made out legal cost of living sharing contract and so on. She is clearly caring for her mother. If she hasn't such a document in place then any funds mom gives her will be considered "gifting" and melding of titles, ownership, payment is a terrible idea overall for your SISTER'S protection and your Mother's as well.
Your mother may become too ill to care for in home.
OR your sister may become ill and die.
Then what for mother, if she doesn't have a good financial trail and careful record keeping by her POA.
All of this is NOT to say you have any legal right at all to know the details of sister and mom's legal or financial arrangements. You really don't. If you suspect fraud, elder abuse, you can call APS and ask an investigation be opened, but as POA sister doesn't have to share any information with you.
ALL OF THAT SAID, other than warning your sister she may be paying on a mortgage but may end up homeless, jobless and without money and the government clawing back anything spent on mother--what can you do?
You seem to think that sister taking 24/7 care of her mother, doing all the POA work, paying the mortgage should be done free?
I honestly don't know WHAT you think, nor would I want to guess.
Since this is all quite complicated I would suggest you pay a visit to an elder law attorney, and find out what options you have. If you have PROOF of any wrong doing by your sister then you can ask the court to examine her POA papers, and her filing and record keeping. That will cost you.
What other options you have are best to come from an expert in this field; that's an attorney.
Now as POA the sister, if mom cannot act for herself with competency, does decide who stays in the house. She has that right.
And as for you, you, when visiting are best off, given the sibling rivalry here, to stay somewhere like motel 6 during your visit. This will relieve pressure.
Best wishes out to you.
What are your mother’s thoughts on all of this? Is your sister’s name on the deed? Does your mom have a will or other legal documents in place?
What a shame that there is friction between you and your sister when your mom is so ill.
Wishing you and your family well.
The PoA needs to be very careful about how they manage your Mom's financial affairs so that she can never be disqualified delayed this benefit for "gifting".
"You are not the property owner when your name is on the mortgage but not on deed. Your role on the mortgage is merely that of a co-signer. Because your name appears on the mortgage, you are responsible for making the payments on the loan, just like the property owner."
Source: https://attorneysre.com/name-not-on-mortgage-but-on-the-deed/#:~:text=You%20are%20not%20the%20property,just%20like%20the%20property%20owner.
It is possible she had your Mom put her name on the deed at some point?
A PoA doesn't legally have to prove they actually have it by showing documents. Is she also the executor of your Mom's Will? Does your Mom have a Will?
First I requested a copy of the will and was never given a copy by the POA aka my sister. I was very patient and asked her many times she lead me on saying she didnt have the time until she finally stated lets wait until moms deceased. So I am in the dark there.
Second this comment: "You seem to think that sister taking 24/7 care of her mother, doing all the POA work, paying the mortgage should be done free?
I honestly don't know WHAT you think, nor would I want to guess."
Who are YOU to pass judgement on me and assume? I try and offer as much support as I can long distance, taking most of my vacations to see mom and in fact offered to take care of her if this was too much for my sister whom many a time stated my mother is "quite a lot to deal with". I would have gladly exchanged places so the next time you say something so heartless think about it and stop assuming a family member doesnt care. I would not be asking for insight here IF I did not care.
Mom has some savings not alot. I was told $100k but sister never gave me actual proof even after asking numerous times. Moms not in need yet of any outside assistance but who know what the future brings and what will happen to the $100K if its spent on mom thats ok. I agree on the motel but I do not make alot of money and my mom of asked would gladly allow me to stay but the sister would have her powers challenged causing friction an old lady really does not need. I dont see a solution in the situation and as I have tried diplomatically in the past to get financial records, expenses etc it was an act of futility and quite honestly it eats away at me knowing these are the last few years of her life and her siblings need to act in this manner. Again I am fully aware shes the caregiver but staying at the house would give me the financial breather and allow me to take some of the burden off my sister. I guess its a no win situation! I will be checking the deed as recommended. Thank you to everyone here who took the time to reply.
THAT IS THE LAW, not personal opinion. If you don't believe me go to an attorney.
You have no right to see the will. No right to see the POA papers. No right to see the financial statements or records.
What you DO HAVE A RIGHT TO is to go to an attorney, give them your EVIDENCE of fraud or wrongdoing.
Then that attorney will AT YOUR COST go to the courts to ask a judge to call your sister, as POA, to account to HIM (not you) with her record keeping. The judge will then reassure you that records are intact, or will not, and will assign a court appointed Fiduciary to manage your mother's funds.
You are very angry. That's fine. But your estrangement from your sis and mom is your problem. Not ours. If you don't wish to have any input from this forum, which is only trying to help and inform you, then don't come to us with questions.
YOU SISTER HAS NOTHING TO PROVE TO YOU.
IF she is also the executor on Mom's will then she will inform you by mail as stipulated by the law and you can check on the will when filed for probate. It is a matter, then of public record. If you are a named beneficiary, then after the estate is entirely settled, you and any other beneficiary will receive your inheritance.
I personally have zero patience with siblings at war, tearing their poor parents apart when they are at their most vulnerable. I think it is cruel to create dissension when your mother is in the care of your sister, and she providing for her.
1) You want to visit your Mom?
So go visit a few hours in the day, take her out somewhere, then leave and go home. Be polite.
You want to use the fact of who owns the home to prove you have the right to visit overnight, because Mom owns the home? That is not polite or good manners.
2) You provide financial assistance to Mom, so you feel, as family, entitled to details of her finances and details about ownership of the home? See an attorney, and do not assume you have any right to see the will.
You say you don't have the financial resources to pay for a hotel, but provide financial help to Mom, AND can help out with some bills-if allowed to stay as a guest of A) your Mom, AND, as a guest of B) your sister and her husband.
You have caused a dispute and challenged who owns Mom's home. Why would anyone want you to spend the night?
My advice to you:
1) Take your own money and pay for a hotel. Visit Mom by taking her out.
It is not true that you don't have the money. Make an adjustment on the finances that you provide to Mom.
2) Do not expect your sister to host you in a home she is residing in with her husband. Helping Mom out financially does not give you overnight rights. There, no matter who owns the home, you have no rights, and no invitation. Be polite.
3) Do everything you can to mend the rift between your sister and you. Both of you are acting in such a poor manner. And you have been insensitive to sis, rude, intrusive, and entitled. You need to apologize and make amends.
I do not think that you would be this invested if you did not care for your Mom, and your sister.
1) Take your own money and pay for a hotel. Visit Mom by taking her out.
It is not true that you don't have the money. Make an adjustment on the finances that you provide to Mom.
Again I am financially limited and do what I can. I never said I didnt have money please read before you post advice like this!
2) Do not expect your sister to host you in a home she is residing in with her husband. Helping Mom out financially does not give you overnight rights. There, no matter who owns the home, you have no rights, and no invitation. Be polite.
Thats rather obvious. I never stated I had rights because I assist a little financially you assumed that but mom does still have the scruples to offer the invite unfortunately sister over rides everything when its not according to sisters will. You see where I am coming from or should I write this all on a blackboard in colored chalk?
3) Do everything you can to mend the rift between your sister and you. Both of you are acting in such a poor manner. And you have been insensitive to sis, rude, intrusive, and entitled. You need to apologize and make amends.
Again I have been diplomatic (did you read that?) and its ok for some time until the knit picking and controlling starts again. Rude insensitive intrusive and entitled? I hope YOU do not have children as you are clearly on the defensive here without even clearly reading what I initially wrote. Are you on here to vent your frustrations with men as it surely comes across that way!
You said:
"Any tips or opinions would be gladly reviewed even if not in my favor. Thanks!"
Therefore, Mother's home is now also Daughter's home. (Not talking ownership or financial - just sense of *home*).
Son lives futher away, not able to be in the daily care team.
The Son does not live with Mom therefore is a guest in her home.
Guests are not entitled to invite themselves.
Good guests use manners to ask when/if appropriate to stay & pay for their own accomodation if not convenient.
To me it reads that SonSun feels entitled to *belong* in Mom's house due to... what?
Due to assumption that Mom's Will notes him as a part beneficiary to her property when she dies. That this THOUGHT (be it truth, assumption or imagination) overrides any right his Sister & her Husband have about who stays overnight in their now home/personal space.
See how that reads? Crazy.
SonSun, you said you view your sister as bossy & controlling, right?
Maybe she finds you bossy & entitled?
My mom is still very coherent however the sister as you and Alva are clearly have sided with based on your reply over rides my mothers decisions. She mom is not senile and still able to make decisions.
I pulled up the deed and its a life estate deed on the house which means if the original guarantor still lives in the house it is clearly their house.
I never stated I had access to the will so again your assuming and I am very aware I have no power over what ever mom wrote in it. That was her choice. Am I clear on that?
Again bossy? Beatty you should have your head checked as I never made one comment here indicating I was bossy merely the fact is it was the opposite way around. So how can one try and get along with family that is controlling ever single move one makes in their presence?
Calling someone crazy is clearly uncalled for and I am surprised how quickly your passing the judgement. Are you a licensed psychologist? I am sure not so please do not use that sort of vitriol.
don’t think too uncommon - amazing how even family can change when moneys involved - so many in work going thru similar stuff.
haye to say this but I really think the only course of action is legal
speak to a legal and find out your rights then maybe a stern letter from a solicitor
it doesn’t sound like your sister is a reasonable person you can talk to legal may be the only solution but keep that quiet - find out your rights
I imagine your sister has rights paying mortgage -even renters have rights if you allow them to stay at your property so speak to legal - even free legal advice if available and find out where you stand
In the meantime don’t discuss this with your sister in event she counters anything you say/do.
its a delicate situation. I have a school friend now living in Ireland. Her and her husband live in the family house - parents no longer alive
and her husbands family turn up using the house as a hotel
that sister has also forgotten that Altho she lives there that the house does not belong to her - but also her family just turning up disrupts her life and privacy
it’s a delicate situation - no one wants anyone just turning up living where they live invading their space - but they were fortunate to be allowed to live in accommodation - granted with added responsibility of your mother but easy to see how they consider that their home and the thought of others even family just invading their privacy-they’ve forgotten it wasn’t /isnt actually their home and other members still have a ‘stake’ so to speak
I take it your mother hasn’t done a will at all ?
you need to find out your rights
then hopefully an explanation/peaceful reminder to your sister may then generate a compromised solution, bearing in mind your sisters right to privacy as well and also your rights to visit your mother
it can get messy so try and be tactful talking about it and maybe you’ll get a win win solution
good luck
The mother is still living. She may even still be mentally competent enough to make decisions.
That being said and so, the OP has no 'rights' over her mother or her mother's property. Even if she is sick or has dementia, she clearly arranged for her own old-age care before she needed it. Her daughter and SIL take care of her free in her home.
If the mother in this case was smart and organized enough to arrange and plan for her old age care needs, she may very well have arranged her estate well also. The caregiver daughter pays part of the mortgage on the house. There may very well be a special arrangement in legal writing about that and I hope there is.
No one owes the OP anything here.
Perhaps she/husband are 'partial owners' for paying the mortgage although this is a legal matter and partial owners isn't a legal document or phrase (as far as I know). It is possible - perhaps - that your sister put her name on the mortgage documents and/or Deed to the house and had your mother sign it. This is something you need to ascertain.
Clearly, your sister doesn't want you in the house. The question to you is why? As I presume you do not know, you need to discuss with her. If she has the house keys ... you live out of state ... she has access and certainly more 'control' and decision making regarding the house and your mother.
As far as I can tell, these are two 'intermingling' separate issues.
Advice: see an attorney if you feel your rights are being violated.
Whatever financial assistance you offer, be sure everything is documented / in writing.
Gena / Touch Matters
There's no need for the OP to go to a lawyer. A lawyer can't do anything for her because he will have no access to the mother's Will or any other legal documents she may have done concerning her property or anything else.
The mother and the caregiver sister are not criminals. They do not have to appease the OP by being fully transparent about what the mother will do with her property or if there is special arrangements or some kind. The only way the OP or whatever lawyer she wastefully retains will get access to any of the mother's private files like Wills or POA's while she's living is if they are subpeoned by court-order. No judge is going to do that because some entitled, petty, spoiled adult gets their drawers in a twist over some sibling rivalry.
Your sister and her husband take care of your 82 year-old mother who has dementia and now cancer FOR FREE while also contributing financially to the household by paying the mortgage.
This is correct?
You have the audacity to complain about such a sweet, sweet deal where they take care of all the caregiving, and help with bills, and no one asks you for a damn thing.
Yet you expect them to make accommodations for you and family when anyone decides to visit.
Shame on you for being such an entitled ingrate.
I don't know you or your sister, but I'll tell you what I'd do in your sister's situation.
I'd get mom down to a lawyer right quick and have her Will changed and get my name put on the mortgage. I did do this. My mother was getting older and had made some bad financial decisions. I was able to help out otherwise the property would have been lost. I made sure it was all done legally so there'd be no question and no room for argument on who owns the property.
Your sister is not the one acting in a poor manner. You are. Maybe you'd do better to call her and ask if you can come and stay. Offer to buy groceries for the week and cook if she lets you come. Maybe actually express a little gratitude to your sister for taking care of your mother and don't start up with the 'you don't own the place' routine. Don't lay it on your sick elderly mother either to be the referee in your sibling rivalry.
Recap:
-Try treating your sister and her husband with a little gratitude and basic respect. Maybe actually say THANK-YOU to them for all they do.
-Offer to buy a week's worth of groceries and do the cooking for a week if they let you come and visit. Offer to help out with some of the caregiving and household chores too
You would be mistaken. A Will only determines who owns something after the original owner has passed on. The mother in this case is still living, so it's still her house unless she has made other arrangements.
"Go online to the county tax records, county clerk's office and/or registrar of deeds to look up the property. The search will be free on the county's site. Owners will be listed."
Public records will show you exactly who owns the property. Once you have this information, I would tread lightly (especially if your mother is sole owner) because your sister can very easily begin the process to have your mother change the deed totally to your sister and her husband's names.
As far as affording a hotel you state you "offer some financial assistance". If it were me, I would consider using some of that money to pay for a hotel because hopefully the time you spend there would provide some respite for your sister and her husband. If the respite time is coordinated with your sister, that may be worth more than the financial assistance. After consideration, she may decide she would rather provide a place to stay instead of losing that financial assistance.
Lets say sister is on the deed with Mom. If Mom passes, half the house is Moms estate. Meaning if she has left her half of the house to both of you, sister will own 3/4 of the house. If Sis is not on the deed and Mom passes leaving the house to both of you, you each will own half. As said, look at Moms tax bill, if only Moms name, then the house is Moms. All your sister is doing is helping Mom pay her expenses. If Mom has left sister the house, it does not belong to sister until Mom passes. Mom still owns it and has say in who can and who cannot stay in her home.
All 3 of you need to see a lawyer to explain to sister what is what.
I cared for my mother too. I stopped hosting holiday gatherings in my home because I needed a break!
People who have never been in a caregiving situation have absolutely no idea how difficult it becomes.
In fact, one of my favorite Thanksgiving dinners was when I announced to my family, “This year I will be walking on the beach in Florida!”
I told my brothers that I wasn’t cooking but they were more than welcome to come stay with mom while I was gone, and cook dinner for her. To my delight, they did! If they hadn’t, I had arranged to hire someone to stay with Mom.
I loved my mother dearly but my gosh, we need to take breaks from caregiving to maintain our own wellbeing.
OP, if your sister is looking after your mum in the house that she is also contributing to, then she does have a right to say who comes and stays there, even if your mum still has capacity (although that must be limited, considering her loss of short term memory).
I think that it's unfortunate that she said she needs to discuss it with her husband - that would rankle with me, too, as he's not immediate family.
However, it seems that you and your sister rub each other up the wrong way. So, perhaps she didn't want a confrontation at that point.
The reason I think that about your relationship is that you have pushed your sister to give you information that cannot be given, regarding the POA, the will, and the financial arrangements.
It's a shame that you aren't sharing this together, but not all families are like that.
If your finances aren't great, then don't put yourself into difficulty by contributing to your mum's. If you really cannot afford to stay in a motel, then tell your sister how much you miss your mum, but you can't afford to visit if you don't stay over a couple of nights.
Instead of demanding because it's your mum's property, ask your sister because it's her home. However, you will have to abide by her decision - because it is her's to make.
I don't think that you have any rights, here, and I also think that you might be underestimating how much care your mum really needs.
I didn't realise that my brother was unaware how weak Mum had become, or how much her cognitive abilities had deteriorated, until he came with me to visit her in hospital and I talked to him afterwards about the DNR order. It all came as quite a shock to him.
At first he seemed angry with me, as if I had withheld this information, but then he realised I knew because I'm there all the time, while he sees her infrequently with phone calls in between. Mum was able to put on a good front for those short and sweet visits, but she could never keep it up.
It's possible that your mum does the same.
I hope that you can find acceptance and make peace with your sister. My best wishes for your mum's health.
1. This is your sister and brother-in-law's home you are talking about. Regardless of who originally purchased the home, they live here with your mother's blessing and they take care of the property (and her). It's their home. Why shouldn't guests in the home be subject to their approval?
2. From your description, your sister is mother's POA and sole caregiver. She's doing the heavy lifting, in my book that gives her the right to expect respect for her wishes and decisions.
3. I don't understand why she felt the need to defend her position including details on what expenses she and her husband pay toward your mother's and the home's upkeep. Could it be that you reacted aggressively to the information that she wished to speak to her husband about your visit?
4. As a mom myself, I assume that your mom would like for you and your siblings to get along and not create tension in the house during your visit. Now that she is sick, it is essential for her health and welfare as well that things remain calm. From the outside looking in, it doesn't seem like a good idea to have you there at all if this is what's going to happen.
5. What are you trying to accomplish here? I understand that you may feel sister is trying to shut you out by denying you a place to stay. Fighting with her about it is not only not likely to make her see things your way, but defeats the very purpose of a visit, which hopefully is intended to be helpful and a comfort to your mom.
I don't know if you are married, but I can tell you that consulting one's spouse before agreeing to something that will affect the spouse as well is considerate and thoughtful. Why didn't you just thank her and tell her you'll wait to hear back?
At this point, I'd either postpone this visit or plan to stay in a hotel. Try again later with a different approach.
It will be so hard for your Sister to manage your upset and emotions just now, because she is trying to keep your Mom alive, and this is what she will be doing 24/7. Her own life will be on hold every day and the thought of consideration to care for another family member will be so difficult for her, so please consider taking food and a few nice gifts for Mom and Sister (little afternoon tea and cake), something for them as a unit together, then wait for a nice response back from your Sister x It will be hard for you to understand what your Sister is going through just now, but trust me it’s the hardest job in the world x nobody understands unless you are there xx I live with my 95 year old Father and I am his only care giver and I have a Sister too from a far causing challenges. So please I understand this might be so difficult for you, but please as I have tried to encourage my sister with meals and food when she visits and she pushes them away in front of me, please don’t be this type of sister, please open your arms and say what can I do to help you, because you are doing the hardest job of all x you need your Mom right now, you need photos together, time to hold her hand, time to look in her beautiful eyes x do not take your sadness and grief out on your sister x who cares about the house, Mom is the most important and assets get in the way of love and time is crucial right now for you, before it is too late, please xx do not be bitter, envious or hard x you need your lasting memories of holding your Mom now and I am sure your Sister will encourage this if there wasn’t any challenge for her xx please think this through…please for YOU xx
Take care, please try to look after you so you can manage approach to Sister and hold your Mom again xxx
As far as the house goes, who is on the deed? That is the person who owns the it. Did your mother sign the house over to your sister? Is there a will where she has bequeathed the house to your sister?
If you visit, stay in a hotel and visit briefly periodically throughout the year. It's apparent you are not needed as a caregiver so leave it alone. Concentrate on being a loving daughter to your mother.
Good luck to you.
Whoever has ownership in this case doesn't negate your sister's rights as a resident of the home. Ownership is really an issue once mom has passed, and her estate - if there's anything left - has to be distributed. While mom is still living? And sister lives with her - and is her caregiver? She has a right to say she doesn't want the added burden of house guests, regardless of how helpful those guests are, or at least perceive themselves to be. Because if mom is to the point where she needs a live in caregiver, her hostess days are over, and the onus will fall onto your sister.
In the meantime, why don't you offer to host a visit, if mom is able to travel?
I so hope before sister agreed to this arrangement, a contract was signed. I have a feeling when they moved in Mom did not need as much care as she does now. Reason why Sis pays half the Mortgage. It was a win win situation. You can't blame OP. Maybe its time to talk about a new arrangement.
This sounds perfectly reasonable to me. He's already living with his ill elderly mother in law (albeit in mil's home). They are probably established in a routine which would, no matter how much you help, be disrupted by your overnight stays.
The ownership piece sounds like a separate issue. It does not sound to me like she said "I now own the house therefore you cannot stay". She said she had to speak with her husband. She may not have a legal reason to do this. She has a "protect our peace" and "keep things as routine as possible" reason to do this.
Otherwise we'd be hearing from a husband saying "my wife and I care for my elderly mother in law who has cancer and memory issues. She just invited her sister to stay with us without discussing it with me."
That's my opinion, tho not in your favor. Perhaps at this point your sister and brother in law have said yes it's OK!