Spouse wants to move abroad again, despite father with severe Parkinson's. Should I leave my parents or should I separate?

This is a situation which makes me wish both spouses would post their view of the situation. There was a French movie (two movies?) of a couple breaking up. The movies depicted how each individual saw the situation. So different as to be unrecognizable. I would agree that a third party, counselor, lawyer, ?, help them to at least intellectually be aware of the other's point of view. There are two vulnerable and helpless individuals caught up in this-not including the parent. A hasty and selfish decision would be disastrous for everyone. Maybe a little pause to see what happens and what other possibilities may present themself with thought?

She's the one with the problem.

OP, would you be moving back to Thailand if not for your parents' issues? Was there a mutual understanding beforehand that Thailand was where both of you wished to be raising your children? How close do you live to your parents and what is their living situation? How much time are you spending with them?

Is it possible that she's scared, resentful, of the scenario of moving mom/dad in or living so close that it's going to be increasingly them, them, them over an indefinite number of years, perhaps most of your childrens' childhood?

Do YOU want for your children the prospect of their mother leaving the country, after which any child support will be basically on the honor system--while you struggle with raising them alone while perhaps accommodating mom and dad as well?

Is the only other choice going to a foreign country where you will not be able to see the parents at all?

Are you willing to live farther away from them as long as you're still in the state? Or the states? That way, you are around for them, not as much as you'd like, but at least some. That way, you and she might have room to work out the other issues without your parents' issues always extant.

I think it's important to remember that generally we give advice based on our own experiences and try to share what we think. This is a huge one and probably needs advice from professionals. I don't think that we have enough information from your post or could you possibly share that much here.

I believe that if it were me that my young children would come first in all situations. That I know, but the rest is complicated it appears.

I can only imagine how hard this would be to deal with even knowing what you want to do. Sounds like there is hardship in any choice.

Time to lawyer up. Separate and file for full custody of your children
or at least prevent her from taking them out of the area.

Normally I'd say your marriage is your priority, but clearly you married the wrong person and it's only a matter of time before this marriage crumbles once and for all. Your marriage certainly isn't her priority.

No one should put their job before their marriage, and that's what your wife has done. Don't let the tables be turned on you as the bad guy here, because she has negated her vows.

I advise you to consult a lawyer without letting her know first. You must get your ducks in a row and know where you stand legally with the children before doing anything else.

Have you asked your DAD what he wants as to his end of life care? He may NOT WANT YOU to be his caregiver for life. He is married? What does his wife say? Before making any decision, tell your wife that the TWO of you need to contact a state or city social worker to get REFERRALS for your dad's choices. Maybe you can go with your dad to various assisted living places on tours and let him choose where he would like to live. Ask your wife to help YOU to help YOUR DAD find a way he WON'T NEED you to be his primary caregiver. Tell her AFTER he is in a place where he can be cared for, you would be happy to go with her wherever she wants to go.

Why exactly do you need to be there for your parents?
You can ditch your wife but do not ditch being with your children.

I haven’t read all the posts, so this may not be new. However, I’ve known two couples who have lived apart for a while, and the marriage did not break.

One is a doctor married to a doctor, both from Indian families. Both are early 30s and are doing final placements to qualify as specialists, one in Darwin and the other as an eye specialist in Adelaide. I’m not sure about children, I think that grandparents are with the husband in Darwin. They miss each other, but have decided it’s worth the separation to finish what is 10 years of training for each of them. The other couple I know, both Aussies in their 50s, the wife went to teach ESL (English as a Second Language) in China for a year, while the husband stayed here in Adelaide. Neither couple was looking at permanent separation or divorce.

My other question is about servants. My guess is that in Thailand, your wife had domestic support with child care and virtually everything else. Without that possibility, I can’t see that she would want to go with the children and without you. Have you considered her USA work load? If she is a major breadwinner and you are also working, is it a fairly unattractive life for her? Is the likelihood of caring for elderly parents just too much? And does she actually like her parents-in -law? Is there any way you can address that first? If you follow other advice to stop the children leaving and she still goes, how will you cope with the workload yourself?

Good luck, and I hope you can sort it out.

You need to see a therapist first and hopefully a joint couple visit. You say you two have 2 small children ( ages ?), so I would guess that would mean you both are young? 20's, 30's, 40's ? You have a marriage with children. Do you love each other anymore? Either you work together to keep that marriage, or you don't. But that must come first in your thinking.

I cannot believe how so many people on this column are so quick to write your marriage off. A marriage between a loving husband and wife with children is something to value greatly. And needs to come FIRST. Please figure this out. Listen to a counselor and see what he / she has to say.

If you do find that you love each other, then consider this. When I was a new bride of 19 married to a wonderful man of 26, his sisters thought it would be a good idea for their dad to come live with us and take care of him. (I was a new nurse, and not yet working.) Are you kidding ??!! I for sure married MY HUSBAND, NOT his father or his family, nor mine for that matter. I wanted my husband and to have our own family. We were newlyweds and wanted to be alone. Luckily, this became a non-issue, as I'm pretty sure he didn't want that either but wouldn't really say so. So I was "the bad guy" and said NO. Soon thereafter, my husband received orders to a base in Germany and we moved and began a wonderful life together. And it was wonderful even through the difficult times. But we had each other and our children. And luckily this is the path we chose as our time was limited. My husband died of cancer when he was only 49, after 5 years of difficult times, and 23 years of marriage.

Maybe this is what your wife wants... a life together with you and your children, travel, new experiences, but together. Your parents can't be very old, what their 60's / 70's? And can get help at home or in assisted living. But your wife and children need you!

A couple of questions/thoughts,

Do you have siblings or other relatives to help with your dad?

Can you afford to periodically go back and forth to see your parents? Remember we are dealing with Covid and ever changing travel restrictions. You would not want to get stuck in Thailand If you are needed in the states.

Seems like someone just put up this question to see the comments.

What are you going to regret the most?

That your wife isn't willing to care about your parents' care is a problem for me. Especially, if she's not willing to compromise. Yikes! I'm so sorry for you and your children.

Maybe you can stay here in the states, with your young children so that they can know their grandparents before they pass. I can only imagine hearing your children say, "I never got to know my grandparents, because Mommy wanted to go abroad..."

Is that going to be okay with you? If you were your father/parents, what would you want? Do onto others as you would want done to you, PERIOD!

Is your wife willing to treat her parents the same way?

Regardless of wife & children, you will have to sleep with yourself.

See a therapist to help you make a decision that you will do your best not to regret.

I'm praying for you and others like you in the same position.

It sounds like you don’t have much of a marriage since she can’t understand why you don’t want to move. You do what is right for you because you don’t want to have to live with regrets. Personally I would leave her and file for divorce for she can’t take the children overseas.

It’s sad to raise 2 children with the idea that parents aren’t important and immediate gratification is. She will be old someday and I hate to see how she could make life a living hell because she feels neglected by kids.
Go for some therapy. I’m glad she’s not my neighbor. Do I sense narcissism? How dare she use children as a pawn because she is unhappy.
Best of luck with your decision.

Your marriage and children come first, always. There's no question about it.

However, if your wife files for divorce AFTER you get to Thailand, you'll be screwed. You likely won't be able to move the kids back to the US. And what about Thai Family Court? How does that work? Who gets the kids? Would you be unemployed, and relegated to visits every other weekend, receiving no child support, or worse, having to pay her child support?

I recommend having a real come-to-Jesus talk with yourself about that. And speak privately with a family law attorney with experience in international child custody matters. If you believe your wife will divorce you in Thailand, just beat her to it, and pull the plug and file first in the US. There's no way a US Family Court will let her move the kids abroad without your consent.

I never told poster to get a divorce. I told him to find out what his legal rights are with his children since it involves 2 countries. He should be well informed of what she can and can't do with the kids, since she has given him ultimatums and wont compromise.(his words).
She using the kids as a bargaining chip. You don't do what I want, I'll take the kids. He should know his rights regardless of where they live and what they do.
She can't use the kids as a blackmail scheme whenever she wants.
He needs proper counciling of his rights as a parent even if he stays or moves.

What is in Thailand that is so wonderful? & where will children attend school? Is wife from Thailand? If she wants to go there & you don’t want to go, she should go by herself. If your Father is getting worse, you will feel badly about going so far away. Wife seems to be running away from something instead of towards something. It seems confusing. Have you discussed with wife why she wants to go to Thailand? Lots of unanswered questions. I would also have consult with divorce attorney in USA 🇺🇸 You don’t want her to bring children to Thailand & then you’ll be stuck there indefinitely. Does she have a sneaky side? Hugs 🤗

If you took the elderly Father out of this - the problem remains. One half of a couple want to reside in Thailand - other half in US. Maybe marriage counseling is the way to go?

"I don’t want to ruin my marriage over this but she will not compromise".

Marriage is full of compromises..

With 48 replies and no ideal solution, I’m sending some good energy your way.

I know a woman with a restless spirit. Chances are Thailand is the next stop but it won’t end there.

Matneyg1: Imho, wherein lies the problem on this issue is the uncompromising 'behavior' of the wife as a marriage is all about compromise, not one half of the union calling the shots.

Servants - I’ve been thinking about this since I posted this morning. Your wife is clearly a high income earner, and that usually means a high stress job. The marriages like this that I have known about (eg Margaret Thatcher and Denis) have always included some type of domestic help. You have been back in the USA since 2019. If your wife works like this, what sort of assistance does she get at home? Why does she want the lifestyle she had in Thailand?

Both men and women often have an unrealistic understanding about how much work, time and mental energy it takes to keep a household going in the way both would prefer. Women don’t value their own contribution enough, because it seems ‘normal’. Men ‘help’, but often not to the same ‘standard’, so wife does the job again. Husband complains that wife’s standards are unnecessarily high, and that none of it matters, but he still expects things to be pretty good. Wife says she does the lion’s share, and isn’t appreciated. Doing the lion’s share on top of a high stress job, seems like a very good reason to want to live where domestic help is easily found, afforded and acknowledged as perfectly normal.

OP, all we know about your wife and why she won’t compromise is your simple statement. There has to be a reason that you haven’t mentioned. Could the problem be solved in the USA?

Could your family and parents move together? I don't know anything about Thailand, but I know someone who moved to San Miguel de Allende in Mexico for inexpensive but high quality assisted living for her husband. She was very happy there.

We haven't heard back from this guy as to further details about why Wife feels this way, or exactly what his involvement with his parents is. If this had anything to do with parents moving in or living like next door, and increasingly he is tending to them and not the children, well perhaps that's a reasonable explanation.

When you got married you chose to link your life to that of your wife and move away from your childhood household. Thats what getting married does, your wife and family become and are your number one priority. If you wanted to make your parents your life then you shouldn't have got married. You are debating two young children versus two elderly parents, you chose to make those children they are your responsibility - your parents chose to make you, that makes you their responsibility not the other way round. I am sorry your wife is intransigent over this, as obviously it would be better if you were available to be called on, but maybe she isn't the carer kind and certainly not for people not related to her no matter how good they have been to her. What is her view on looking after her parents if the situation was that way round? You do not say how elderly your parents are, but there are facilities that can ensure they are safe and cared for, or if possible for them to be cared for in their home carers can come in as needed. You never get back time you lose with your children. Where do you feel your priorities lie? Talk to your parents about their needs, make sure they have the assistance they need and are safe and get on with your life. Unless you feel you made a mistake in your marriage you have far more years to be estranged from your children than you do from your parents being cared for by others. I know what it sounds like from what you have written, but you need to talk to your parents, hear what they think you should do and make your own decision on what you want life to be in 10 years.

first my children would not be moving out of the Country and would tell the wife to stop thinking of herself. If you don't stay you will have guilt for the rest of your life believe me. I'm sorry but what a selfish person she is being.

I have a feeling there is a strong possibility that if you asked your sick father what you should do, he would want you to stay married and raise your children with your wife. I suspect he would be devastated to know that you are with him at the cost of your marriage and raising your children. That aside...
As parents, it is our responsibility to provide our children with roots and wings (roots = stability and care of their bodies, minds and spirits and wings=the ability to leave the nest and fly on their own). In our culture (the USA), parents accept and expect their children to leave the parental home, especially once their son or daughter marries and has children. I do not think it is fair of you to make yourself feel guilty over putting the needs of your marriage and children first.
You should absolutely use the time RIGHT NOW to have a deep conversation with your dad over anything in your relationship with him through the years that has disturbed or worried you. Do not put it off. This will help you have a clearer mind about any potential relocation with your family.
Keep in mind that you will be able to have contact and communicate with your father and those involved with his day-too-day care via visual and audio technology (not the best option but still a viable option). You and your spouse can also work out a budget where you could plan to visit your dad from abroad every three months or so.
You asked for opinions, so here is mine: I believe your primary responsibility now is to your young children and your spouse. I can foresee many serious traumatic situations for your two children if you should leave them to be with your father.

I would advise you to 1a) talk with your father as described above. 1b) immediately talk with your father's physicians about the prognosis for your father. Ask specific questions: How long is your dad expected to live? What will your father experience physically and cognitively during the last month of his life? Share this information with your spouse. If his life expectancy is less than three months, then it is reasonable for her to relocate AFTER your father passes on. If the prognosis is years away, then that is a totally different matter.
2) You and your wife need to consider the wisdom of traveling and relocating overseas during this COVID pandemic. Expectations are that the rest of the winter of 2021 into Spring 2022 are going to be brutal in terms of lives lost. Are these truly the circumstances to which you and your wife want to subject your children right now? On a very practical side, you and your family might not even be allowed to travel and relocate to another country. The regulations are changing constantly and at a moment's notice. Do you want to be "stuck" somewhere while you are halfway to you eventual location?
3) I also think you and your spouse need to be very frank with one another about the state of your marriage. What does it say if you both are willing to separate from one another both geographically and legally, regardless of your father's condition? Perhaps before any firm decisions are made, it would be helpful for the two of you to sit with a good counselor to discuss how you both feel about your union and being parents BEFORE your even discuss the various options.

I sincerely hope you are all able to work things out for the best of all who'll be impacted by this...but especially your children. I am concerned for them the most.

It strikes me that the writer has outlined that his wife wants to live farther away, but hasn't detailed exactly how close he's willing to be for his parents.

Proximity seems to be irrelevant to how much someone supports a parent. I know people who live a few miles away and do little to nothing, and others who live on the other side of the country who do a good job of supporting their family member.

Yet, my personal experience, closeness is EVERYTHING if you are a primary caregiver. By that I don't mean living in the same country, state, or city, but truly present on a daily basis with increasing time and energy commitments as your parents age. Are you really looking to take that kind of commitment on yourself?

There are dozens of ways to support aging parents. But, if you aren't willing to step up to the day-in, day-out, hands-on, fully responsible components of caregiving, you are using your father's illness as an excuse to separate from your wife.

It's time to think outside the box and solve the problems coming your father's way. That may or may not mean you living in the US.

If you choose to stay, are you going to be spending more time with the parents? Are you going to be helping with some caregiving? If yes, I would tell the spouse things have progressed more so than when you left the states before and what your plans are in regard to them by staying here now.

If she has a job now, making near to same as what she made abroad, the move is purely for the travel and not for the money. Can you live comfortably on what she makes now? Are you able to earn more here or abroad...or as a trailing spouse, does that mean your employment is not that important financially.

Where are her parents? If they got ill, would she participate more in their lives? If not, that's how her brain works. The parents aren't a priority. Some people are like that.

If it were me, I wouldn't be able to go while dad is even more on the decline. I would want to spend as much quality time as I could. If you left now, you may make a few visits back to see them, but that phone call that may come while you're abroad may mean you MIGHT be able to say goodbye, but you will have lost time with dad. All comes back to - can you live with that? I can't see that it would hurt to spend a few more years in the states and then return to the world travel

Spouses and children come first. There are plenty of options for your Dad to get care.

You write that you don’t want your marriage to be ruined, but I wonder if you have considered that the way your wife treats you may be doing that.

All the forum participants who tell you to blindly follow your wife, simply because she is your wife, may not truly be considering your best interests.

In order for any relationship to work there has to be compromise. It sounds like you have given, but are getting none in return. If you divorce, she would not be able to take the kids out of the country unless she were awarded full custody.

Once your parents are gone, there is no getting them back. No amount of money or exquisite travel opportunities can replace them.

Nice women are a dime a dozen.

How will she treat you when you are the sick one? You should think about how you want to live the rest of your life.