What is the difference between tolerating a verbally abusive parent and a verbally abusive husband?

Verbal abuse is verbal abuse regardless of who it comes from. You divorced your first husband for being verbally abusive but you can't exactly divorce your mom. But you can make a decision that you're not going to stand for her treatment of you. You can do this by either telling her that you will leave her life if she continues to speak to you in such a way or you can just cut contact with her. But if you do this, verbal abuse or no verbal abuse, inform her why you are cutting contact with her. And then do it.

I would very calmly explain that her behavior is forcing you into a decision that you would rather avoid. So she either stops with the verbal abuse or you will disconnect from her completely, including any financial assistance. So she will loose her aid, how many days you pay for.

If she doesn't stop, give her 1 warning, mom we discussed this, if you abuse me one more time, I am done. This is your 1st and last warning. Then change your number, block her calls and stop your financial assistance. She is being rewarded for unacceptable behavior and she needs to be able to feel the consequences of her actions.

Stay strong and follow through!

Statewise, are the nastiness and cutting remarks a new aspect of your mother's behaviour? I just noticed from another thread that your mother has heart disease: is her mental state being regularly assessed?

Depression, extreme negativity and loss of inhibition were marked features of my mother's vascular dementia, is the reason I ask. This is a parallel issue to the question of how tolerant you should make yourself be of verbal abuse; but if it's actually a symptom of disease I don't think you'll want to solve it by walking away.

There are of course key differences between your relationship with your husband and that with your mother; the main one being that you are totally in control of the off switch when it comes to your mother. I congratulate you on your escape, though; which also gives me confidence that you know where to draw lines.

Thanks for all your helpful answers. Yes, she does have heart disease. Mom, also been taking medications for anxiety disorder for numerous years. She been seeing a psychiatrist. I did leave a message for her neurologist to call me so I can talk to him about her abusive behavior. Hopefully, he can help me because he is treating her for the dementia.

Thanks again for the support.

Why not just let what she says roll off your back? My mother can and has been, verbally abusive for all of my life. I am the only person she has now. I have to admit that what she says and does affects me for a few days, but knowing her mental health issues, I realize that she can't really help it. If your mom has dementia and/or mental health issues, you have to cut her some slack. Just put her position in perspective and move on. It's a really tough situation when seemingly spoiled parents don't see the difficulty in your life and expect things to go their way. I feel ya, I really do. Best of luck to you!

Intent. That's the difference.

In my experience, my ex was verbally abusive me to make me feel small, less than him as a means of controlling the marriage and me.

Speaking as the daughter of a very difficult woman, Mom was very abusive when I was a child and as I got older we have had our issues. At this point due to her state of mind I believe it's beyond her control. I've come to think of her as a child ( at this point perhaps the mentality of a 4 year old at times) and when children say hurtful things we give them a pass. Granted it cuts to the quick (and my sympathies go out to you) but most of us can't even fathom walking away the way we might with an abusive spouse.

For me, when Mom becomes aggressive I manage it the way I would with a toddler. She gets a time out although she doesn't know it. The time out is me stepping away from the situation, regrouping, then getting back to business. For years my mom only got nasty when there was no one around to bear witness so there were years when I made a point of limiting my time alone with her. Now I find that reminding her that her behavior is unkind is a way for me to cope. Granted it sounds condescending, and frankly it is but it seems to get the job done. Good luck to you, you've got a lot on your plate!

Yes

Change your phone number and YOU decide when to be in contact with your mother. Take your power back.

You show that you have siblings also helping to pay for the senior living apartment. So, she has other children to help her, while your husband has you. Walk away, at least temporarily. Let your siblings explain to her that she is chasing you away with the nasty messages and jealousy. Write her a letter explaining your feelings. Be honest. It may help, it may not. If not, even though the effort failed, you tried to help the relationship. You can walk away knowing she has other children to help her.

Wow. I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this. Not fair. Some questions:

Does she treat your siblings the same? What are their thoughts?

Could you talk to her psychiatrist?

How is this affecting your relationship with your husband & son?
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Your mom is 85 y/o - positive change is limited; if anything she’s going to get worse. Compile any other questions and any necessary information and come up with a plan. Get as many family, friends, aging care (!), your health care team in your corner.

Some thoughts: you probably have PTSD from your childhood & 1st marriage. What’s going on now is surely triggering you. Not fair. You should be enjoying your retirement while taking care of a very ill spouse. I’m very proud of you recognizing the abuse and deciding you’re not doing it anymore. You have a lot of strength and resilience.

In coming up with a plan I would suggest the following:

I like the suggestions from our other friends in giving your mom an explanation about her being consistently unkind to you and a warning and following through. The follow through is the most important & will likely be the hardest thing you do for YOU. Begin to gradually withdraw now.. Limit visits to once a week while implementing your plan. Let the siblings know. Discuss with them the current financial arrangement. You’ll probably have to make some adjustments implementing your plan. That’s ok. As long as you’re moving forward that’s a good thing. Stay firm, positive, and loving towards yourself.

You're obviously a very kind and loving woman however there comes a time (now) where your wellbeing comes first. You deserve some peace and quiet. The constant emotional triggering is not good for you physically, emotionally, & spiritually. Use the time you would have been interacting with your Mom and you do you. Bath, movie, a concert, craft, & your husband. I took up knitting 3 years ago and it’s my passion. Research shows that knitting or any repetitive craft boosts the neuroplasticty in your brain as well as increasing the quality of the neurons you’re constantly producing. Research also shows that any craft helps with healing trauma and most mental health issues.

I knew from the first 1-3 words my parents said on the phone if I could have a conversation (alcoholics). You can probably tell from the first 1-3 words in a voicemail what kind of message it is. Delete immediately- you don’t have to listen. You can block her number. Let the facility know what you’re doing. They deserve to know. We don’t know what their level of involvement will be however they’ve got plenty of experience with this!

Good luck! I’m in your corner.

I would start looking for memory care facilities. It is not cruel to want a difficult family member with dementia to be in a SAFE place with ROUND THE CLOCK supervision and good nutrition. So sorry, but this doesn't get better.

Think. If you had a camera in her place for one day, it might illuminate the situation. With my Mom, she was falling and picking through the food in her house..throwing underwear away..other..and she let strange (scary) people into her house..in fact, other residents at the complex just walked in her apartment! One of them looked like a mafia hitman. We moved her two years ago this month. Thank God she is safe and cared for every day. We can go back to having a relationship as her children as best we can. Sadly, she never remembers us visiting, but still knows us.

Is your mother's abusiveness a relatively new thing or an all my life thing? If it's a newer thing, I would try to identify why it's happening. A chronic personality issue is very different than a symptom of illness.

I just want to add how proud I am that you were strong enough to leave an abusive spouse. I have a sister who lives with an abusive spouse and has for over 40 years. Personally, I don't expect things to change since my sister left for 6 months (7 years ago) and then returned. She said that she couldn't survive on her own and needed her husband to at least keep a roof over her head and some food. Of course, she felt he was going to treat her better once she returned. She's brainwashed, and was unable to recognize that had she stayed on the path of getting help, her needs would have been provided—my dad, my family, and my siblings would have seen to it.

I'm also proud of your wonderful, loving care of a spouse with Parkinson's disease! My mom had Parkinson's and I know what her needs were as her illness worsened. Please remember that your priority really is your husband. I'm glad you have a son who is supportive. It sounds like you did a good job in raising him.

I don't have a lot of insight into your problem with your mom; however, I do agree with a number of statements that others made regarding setting boundaries and letting the facility where she stays know your difficulties with her responses toward you. Letting them know how it affects you is important. They've seen it all, I'm sure! Your support of her may become only a financial one, and I think that's fine. You have more than enough to do for your beloved husband. Let your siblings know this too. I'm sure they have felt your mom's wrath and abuse as much as (and maybe even more than) you have. It's funny how abusive people can pick whom they want to hurt and how much they want to hurt them.

Talking to your mom's care team, her doctors, etc., will at least give you some deeper understanding of her needs and how and if you can help her.

(These are my "unprofessional" thoughts, because you are worthy of being loved and helped.) The only more wonderful blessing I can give you is my prayers for you, your husband, your family, your mom's care, and for the support people around you and your mom.

Very interesting Q! Also, a very important one.
Difficult enough to take care of one ailing, so trying to take care of two is a lot more difficult.
In the eyes of the Lord, your spouse and your children comes first. So, you are not wrong for caring for your husband. At no age are do we have any entitlement when it comes to what is needed or wanted even at 110 years, so if your mom needed to be where she is at, she may not like it, but there is a huge difference between caring for kids and caring for elderly. And it is not like you just threw her away; you are doing things for her. But I understand if you want to not go visit her with her abusing you. For her to understand you sacrifing your life caring for her is beyond challenging, so to respect you better. That, and hubby does come first, so for her to accept that. I am not great with words sometimes, so I do apologize for any confusion in my words. If you need to separate from her for awhile, I understand. You cannot be good to anyone unless you are good to yourself first. Plus, you may need counseling if you may have PTSD. If you believe in God, pray for peace and see what He would have you to do.

As I have been taking care of Mother 24/7 for the past 18 months, I have learned a lot about my childhood. We live our lives forward and understand it backwards. I see now how catty and passive aggressive she has always been. There was one time when I asked her why she was treating me bad, and she said, "Because I can." Rather than become reactive, I let it go, but now when she starts acting up, I remind her that MY mother always told me, "If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything at all." Oh, the look on her face the first time I said this!
I have had to tell Mother on more than one occasion that I'm taking a time out because I don't think we are being nice.

My father gets verbally abusive when he is having bad moments or depressed. I just finish what I am doing at that point, tell him I will come back later when he can stop being mean to me, and walk away. Thankfully this works with him. He has so far always felt bad and treats me super nice when I come back. I don’t expect apologies, as this has never been his way. But his recognition and regret of what he has done takes most of the sting away. The empathy of what he is going through, from being a strong independent man to being dependent, needy, and physically weak man, takes care of the rest of the hurt. I hope this helps. Good lick with your situation.

Whatever you decide, do not feel guilty for protecting yourself from abuse!

Honestly, I think a lot depends on the degree of her dementia. Your ex-husband was in full control of his faculties, knew what he was saying and did so with intention. Can you say the same for your mom? Was she always this verbally abusive? I think is what informs your decision. If your mother is verbally abusive, knows that she is doing it, and either intends to be hurtful or doesn't care if she is hurtful, then you have a decision on what your breaking point is. But if her disease has progressed to the point of not controlling her outbursts or what she says, then I think you have to give her some slack or moderate how you respond to it. The difference is her ability to control what she says.

The difference is as great as night and day, in my book.

I would not tolerate an abusive spouse, not for one minute. Now, my DH is as clueless in some regards as they come--but abusive? No. Never. I'd take clueless over mean any day of the week!

His mother is another story. She is abusive and by choice. She KNOWS what she's saying and she knows why. I have cut her out of my life completely--(realistically, I know that it truly impossible, but you know what I mean. I no longer make any attempt at a relationship with her and will not endeavor to do so--ever.)

My DH and I have had a rough marriage--probably not worse nor better than anyone else's really--we've just been together so long there's simply no romance nor magic anymore. We live together as brother and sister. And it's OK.

I have seem far too many women stay in abusive marriages for whatever reason they may have--one being "for the sake of the kids" and I can tell you, the kids wish you'd split up. I know my DH wished his parents had divorced 30 years before they finally did.

Abuse is never OK--but there are times when you do have to deal with it in some form. You cannot always walk away from the abusive person--often it's family and you simply HAVE to deal with them to a degree. But deal with them and walk away. It's hard to do, but necessary. (I'm thinking of my brother with whom my mother lives. I HAVE to get past him to see mother. He's toxic, but if I don't "play nice" I am cut off from contact from mother.)

Life is too short to have abusive people in it. I'm my own worst enemy in this regard. I am harder and more unkind to myself than any other person can be.

Maybe we start with ourselves and go from there?

If I don't like myself, I find I will allow others to treat me poorly.

Unfortunately, whether the abuse is intentional or caused by dementia, the result is the same. You are being abused and you do not have to tolerate it. You are suffering from the stress of the abuse, and it will get worse. In my opinion, you have the right to avoid abusive people whether they are family members or not. I know it's very difficult when the abusive person is a close family member, but you seem to have no choice if you want to live a life of freedom from abuse, have joy again, breathe freely again. My experience in doing so resulted in heavy weights lifted off my mind which resulted in energy, lightness, peace of mind, security. My first husband was physically and mentally abusive and I divorced him after 6 years. Like you, I never looked back. Now, my mother has been verbally and emotionally abusive to me for several years. I don't know whether it is dementia or just her lifelong negativity. It doesn't really matter because the result is the same. I have frequent but brief verbal contact with her, usually by phone. I told her I would hang up if she became abusive, and I do follow through with that. I stopped going to her house and driving her to appointments unless someone else is present because she is the sweet little old lady in front of others. It's not easy to do, but it has eliminated a lot of stress and heartbreak for me. I wish you the best of luck. I hope you can either cut the tie with your mother-in-law, or at least seriously limit the amount of time you in contact with her. In any event, you have the right NOT to be abused by anyone. If that means walking away, so be it.

I dont know if she was abusive before or if she understand she doing it, my mom was very abusive to me and I was her care taker out of 7 kids I was stuck after a while I face her and told her if she get abusive to me I was leaving and if I was talking on the phone I hang up on her... she call the next day and started it again so I hung up, she call back and said we got disconnected I said no I hung up because of your abusement and hung up again. It took her about 3 months to figure out what was going on she finally stop most of the abuse even if she started taking about someone else and it was abusive I would hang up then took my phone off the hook for a couple of hours.

I say no to leaving your mother, you only have one, BUT do not put up with bad verbally abuse, tell her to stop it right now, say you are going to hand up and not talk to her until she can talk nicer to you.  Worked with my mother-in-law, she did shape up overnight, when I told her no more and certain topics were off limits.
Be tough and stand up to her.  Its hard but I am treated better now.

My MIL can be abusive and demanding as well. It sounds like yours is worse. Sometimes mine is bad. If she starts getting nasty when on the phone I hang up and in person I leave. I limit the amount of time I visit and usually spend the visit cleaning up her place. I am finding that she does not care any more about keeping things clean, never picks anything up and never throws anything out. Her apartment is dirty. It is hard to clean things up because she does not want anything thrown out. Is this a common dementia symptom. She was a neat freak before. Does anybody else find that their parent is sick a lot after Christmas I am not sure if that is why she seems worse or not. Do most just sit around. Mine MIL is demanding and tries to tell me I should bring her the newspaper everyday. I just say no if she can't get it she does not need it. The store is very close by to her place. She does only go with another resident so she should not get lost.
I find it is best to talk to them when it is convenient for you and do not feel obligated to answer the phone.

Go to her next Dr appt with her. Type out all you have described and give to nurse to give to the Dr to read before he comes in the room. This is how I started the process of having my mother diagnosed with dementia by a professional and found someone for myself to discuss how to handle her.
She also can be put on medication to help mellow her out some.

I don't see any difference between tolerating an abusive spouse and tolerating an abusive parent. Abuse is abuse. You do not owe anyone - including your mother - your health and wellbeing. Only you can put an end to it. You can start by cutting short visits and phone calls as soon as she becomes abusive. Don't listen to her nasty messages. If that doesn't work then you can end the relationship. Knowing that you pay for an aid will help you accept that you cannot be hands on with her because she's abusive.

I would block the phone for awhile. You need a break. You also dont need to tell your mother what is going on in your household. Dont need to tell her details about husbands care, no details about who is visiting, no details about anything. She will be jealous of anything you tell her, and come up with ways to use it against you. Stick to neutral topics. She asks person info dont answer, change subject. That doesnt work, you gotta run. See ya later.
Tell family you need a break. No one has to hear obsenities and or screaming on their phone. Doesnt matter who is doing it. You dont need ptsd on top of everything else. That is abuse and you dont accept abuse from anyone. FULL STOP.
I had to go no contact with my mom & sibling. They learned. Still have to do it from time to time. They try to go back to negative abuse patterns when I was young.

If your mom is smart enough to remember details about your life, she will soon learn what no contact means. Give her 1 warning. When she does it again there will be no satisfaction for her. No daughter to guilt trip. Phone blocked. No one to answer the phone or visit. She will learn. It might take a while but she will get it. You have to set boundries and mean it. Dont feel guilty bc you wont accept abuse. Family doesnt mean you have to accept it.

Oh, statewise, my heart goes out to you! Been there, done that... will always have the scars. Can't tell you what to do, but will share my experience (briefly) so you'll know you are not alone. My mom was abusive, verbally and emotionally, all my life. I had siblings, I was the youngest, and I seemed to be her primary target. She's gone now and I never knew why she seemed particularly irritated by my existence. When she started in on my kids, I drew a line and said no more. I tried to get her into counseling with me but her response, as always, was "Don't be ridiculous." I had to cut her out of our lives. Sadly, we were never reconciled, though I did reach out a few times over the last 20 years of her life. My mental health and ultimately my survival depended on staying away. I eventually realized her rejection had caused me to feel suicidal at least from the age of 6. Nobody deserves that. I also realize that she was herself a sick and unhappy woman. But I didn't break her and I couldn't fix her. I was finally able to forgive her (in my heart) and also forgive myself for not being whatever it was she wanted me to be. Sadly, I married a man just like her: critical, emotionally distant and never satisfied no matter how hard I tried to please him for over 20 years. What I finally learned is that if a boat is sinking you should save yourself, and try not to feel guilty about it. I wish you well.

Get in the habit of noticing as soon as the disrespect starts. When you grow up with it, you don't realize that it is abuse. As an adult, you can teach yourself to detect the tone or subject and say “don’t talk to me that way” Takes a couple of goarounds, but it does sink in if the person realizes that you will end the conversation. When my mother loudly berated me on the front of the new neighbors by saying she could “pinch my head off” for misplacing the front door keys, I waited till we got inside to set the ground rules: nasty talk and I would say DTTMTW and I would leave. It was tricky because she would try to draw my husband into, “what’s wrong with her? and my favorite “she’s mad at me and I don’t know why”.

There is a difference of course and by the sounds of it there is also a big difference in time and both you and your mom's place/time in life. I would first ask and consider, was your mom always abusive? Often of course we choose an abusive spouse because it's what we know, what we feel comfortable with whether it be because we received similar abuse of some sort growing up or witnessed it between our parents. This of course doesn't mean your mom was the abuser or that she was the one abused, I'm just wondering if her treatment of you is new since she has advanced in age or if it's familiar to you as part of who she is and your life long relationship, that to me makes a difference. Many of our LO's take on meaner behavior or just become more direct which feels mean, others who have always had that edge in their personality can become really cruel and selfish but none of it, often, is a conscious thing or something they are planning, doing on purpose to hurt us more or at all, it's part of a disease process in the case of cognitive issues and sometimes pain, depression, life frustration or other imbalance. There could be lot's of reasons that aren't aimed as personally at you as it comes across and absolutely feels. The other possibility I see here is that your mom, if she has cognitive/memory impairment, may be thinking the husband you are caring for and referring to all the time, the one "taking you away from her" is the same first husband who was so abusive. She may not remember that you rid yourself of that toxic relationship (and good for you by the way!) she might just remember the feelings of pain and anguish a mother feels when they have to watch their child suffer, I think deep guttural feelings from times in our lives are easier to remember or just more ingrained in our beings than facts and time perspective for patients with memory issues. It would make sense to me that she would remember that feeling toward your "husband" when she hears about your husband if she has any memory impairment. They also often remember further into the past more clearly than things closer to the present which is why we hear caregivers here say all the time, your LO may be talking about a childhood home or place from long ago when they say "I want to go home". Even if your mom has always been hard on you and or abusive, it doesn't mean she wasn't furious and upset, protective of you, about the way your first husband treated you. If there is something else I have learned about family dynamics it's that parent's that could be considered abusive don't recognize that in themselves but are protective of their children and outraged by someone else, like a spouse being abusive to their child. Especially for those of us belonging to older generations, our parents generation had a very different perspective of "abuse" when it comes to their spouse and children, just because a parent was "mean" doesn't mean they were abusive to many older generations in particular.

None of this means you need to grin and bear it though. I would encourage you to try and receive it from a different perspective, maybe learn to re-direct your mom if you can't correct her, maybe enlist more family members or friends close to you both to help, talk up your current husband, fill in some of the time gaps so she doesn't feel alone so much (warranted or not, you could be there every day and she might still feel it's not enough). Maybe try to find a way to touch base with her, include her in your day electronically with one of these new and easy to use face to face devices. But if none of this works or you know it wont (this has been her personality all your life) set some better boundaries for yourself, be realistic and try to ignore the pointless hurtful stuff but don't cut her off completely, she is your mom and you obviously love her or you would have let it go long ago, it isn't the same as divorcing a spouse (hard) and I worry you will regret missing what time is left.

your mother is jealous of your caring for your husband and not her. if you don't share anything with her that you know will cause issues she won't verbally lash out. if you can hear her starting even if you have not shared anything new re-direct or come up with an excuse and quickly get off the phone. if you want a relationship with her the only one you can change is yourself.