Will caregivers report us for rats at MIL's home?
Hi all, sorry for the loooong post, but It's been a while since I've asked any questions as everything is sort of floating along right now, though it's far from good and the ship is sinking. My FIL passed this March (2022) at 92+. MIL, the one with early/moderate dementia, as a widow, is living alone at 88. We've managed to get her to allow us to have a caregiver come in two days a week for 3 hours at a time. The lady takes her to the store, etc. since my husband disabled her car. We live about 130 miles away and we both work. She won’t move closer to us because when we retire next year and move closer to our son, she doesn’t want to have to move again and won’t go to a “cold” climate (Olympia, WA). She won’t wear a Life Alert and won’t use Alexa.
Her current house is 1,900 sq ft and too big for her. We have taken her on tours of Assisted Living places, which she thought were okay for “some day.” We even found one that will allow her to bring her large dog, who is a huge part of the problem. More on her later. She also says that since her budget is sort of balanced, she can stay put. (True enough, but it won’t stay that way as she needs more care.) We'd like to move her while it's not a panicked emergency.
We FINALLY got her to go to a primary doctor, who referred her to a neurologist as he didn’t feel he could accurately diagnose her. So my husband, 64 and her only child, took off and drove down to take her to see him on 10/31. Neurologist says she may have had a stroke because she’s weaker on the right side. MIL says it’s because she’s left-handed. Maybe so, but he wants an MRI. MIL couldn’t remember the 3 words even until he got out of the room so we thought we would at least be able to get a paper with a preliminary dx of dementia. Nope. He said first he would call my husband in a week with results of blood work, etc. He never called. We tried about 7 times to get ahold of him and left messages. Desk person says she will call back with info. We never hear from her either. So no diagnosis means we have no legal ground to make her do anything, as I understand it. We are trying to get a referral to a different dr and/or a gerontologist. We did finally get ahold of the neurologist at the end of last week and he said all her blood work is good and she doesn’t need ANY medication. My husband said he sounded annoyed to have to talk to him. No word on diagnosis because no MRI yet and still no referral.
Now, about the 70-pound neglected dog: The dog won’t use a doggie-door if there is a flap installed. FIL removed the door flap between the house and garage, and this gives rats the run of the place. I find evidence in the living room, on the dining room table, across the furniture, on the 2nd floor. They are in her pantry and run along the baseboards in the bedroom. The exterminator won’t come and deal with the rats because they can't keep the rats out with no dog flap. Traps haven’t worked. The caregiver reports that they are now eating bananas kept on the kitchen island. MIL won’t let her throw them out because, once she cuts off the chewed part. “It’s still good,” she says. Same with spoiled food in the fridge.
So are we likely to get called by APS if a caregiver reports her? That might be the best thing that could happen, but I really don’t know. Am I missing something here? She plays cards and watches TV all day long. I guess she’s happy. But we are thinking that the breaking point for this all might be when she falls or otherwise gets hurt and has to go into the hospital.
I know we don’t have NEARLY the problems most of you do, but I appreciate your time.
I had an old guy for four hours. I was a fill in for his regular aide. This guy had a pile of used bandages, and used tissues and such almost to the top of his ceiling. The place smelled. He couldn't open his windows but he did turn on the air conditioner. He was suppose to have a shower and clean clothing, but he dressed himself without washing himself. I only had him for the afternoon, so I just sat and talked with him.
As stated above, let the inevitable sad fall/illness happen and make sure the hospital discharge people know that she lives alone, will not cooperate and the vermin in her home.
Do NOT show up at the hospital and do NOT take her into your home.
I know this sounds hard, cruel and cold. I am not an uncaring person. My mom was a cooperative elder; she got good care.
My MIL wouldn't hear of having help and threatened to call the authorities on my husband when he became frustrated with her continued self-neglect, so he walked away. A crisis ensued and she got the care she needed. Not what she wanted, but sometimes it's the only way. Step away.
I've had a stubborn person that hollered and screamed at me constantly. Sure, the brain is broken, but I'm not here to be abused and let you break me in the process of trying to help you. You either want the help or not. You can't force anyone to accept help.
With dementia their brain is broken. We all know that. When a client is abusive to the caregiver due to dementia this is when the caregiver has to establish dominance and absolute control of the situation. There have been many times were I had to be somewhat intimidating to a dementia client. Sometimed you do have to force help on them, even when they don't want it. I always say a person recovers a lot faster from a bit of intimidation to get something done then they would from a UTI or incontinence sore because they're left filthy. I have had demented elders flip out and call me every name in the book for throwing away spoiled food, rotting garbage, or collections of soiled Depends and pads that they were planning on reusing. I've had to do the drill sargeant's yell in many a face when things got abusive and it works. I never use obscene language or profanity. I do not make threats either. Stubbornness and abusive behavior will result in them going to a nursing home. I;ve said this many times. It's a fact not a threat. I don't tolerate abuse from anyone though. I don't care how old someone is or what their health conditions are. I get the work done because I won't leave someone filthy or with rotting food.
I've had families at their wit's end in tears because of an abusive elder with dementia. Others who minimized the seriousness of the care situation by half jokingly calling their abusive elder a "handful". There are no "handfuls" with me. I get it done any way I can. I've been on camera many times and always explain to a family up front that there may be times when I have to use intimidating language and tactics with their loved one if they are being stubborn and abusive. When the caregiver is alone on the job they have to have total control of the situation. Many of these demented elders are still mobile and physically strong. So you can never let control get away from you. If you have to out a little fear in their hearts, do it if that's the only way to get the work done. Its for their own health and safety.
Ask the police to go to your MIL's house and do a wellness check. They will do regular wellness checks on her. The cops will have no problem. Sometimes a caregiver will be hesitant to report a client living in a dangerous situation because they are afraid their client will get placed and they will lose paying hours they can't afford to lose. Or the client is nice and easy to do for and those care clients are often few and far between in this line of work.
The cops don't worry about losing their jobs if they report to APS on a dangerous situation involving a vulnerable or elderly person.
So they do it. Please talk to the police.
Your MIL is out of it with dementia. Yes, out of it if she saves and eats spoiled food or fruit that has been chewed on by rodents.
Let me tell you something about leaving out food, cooking utensils, and plates when there are rats and mice. They piss and crap on everything they touch. So that banana MIL cuts the bite marks off of has been pissed and crapped on. The bite marks are the least of her problems because you can get very sick from exposure to vermin and their waste. I know because I was always sick when I was a kid.
Please tell her caregiver that is she uses her pots and pans to cook or serves her on dishes, they have to be washed before they are used. Also where there are rats, there are also mice. The vermin is not just confined to one area of the house. Encourge the caregiver to call APS.
APS will call you and your husband if you are her next of kin. That's okay. You won't get in trouble. Call APS yourself and explain to them plainly what's going on that your MIL needs help and refuses. Also, make sure they know that you and your husband are unable to move her into your house to care for her. MAKE SURE you are most emphatic that she is mot moving to your place because APS will try to get you to take her.
You'll see it will be all right. Either her house has to be professionally cleaned and exterminated then a live-in caregiver moved in who can look after things, or she will have to be facility placed. These are the only two options.
Call the police on a day when the caregiver isn't there and ask for a welfare check on Mom.
They'll be out there fairly quickly (faster than APS), and if she allows them in the house, they'll see rat droppings, rotting food, and you'll be hearing from them pronto. That's ammunition for you to get a doctor to declare her incompetent. (It's not your fault that she's being stubborn and not controlling the rats -- you live 100 miles away.)
Someone called for a welfare check on my parents who were functioning perfectly well on their own. We still don't know who called, nor why they did, but the police came. They asked if they could come in and look around. Dad willingly let them in, and they talked to each of my parents separately, asked to see the inside of the refrigerator to ensure they had food, and requested contact information for both me and my brother.
It was a mortifying experience for my dad (Mom had dementia and slept through most of it), but I was pleased with how thorough the police were in ensuring they were safe. It also turned out that the police had a program where we could give them a key to keep at the station in case they needed to get in in an emergency. We did give them one, since I lived more than an hour away from my folks.
Call for a welfare check. It can be anonymous, so your Mom won't be told who called, but the police will know via your caller ID.
If the large garage door is closed, the problem is that rats/mice are coming into the garage from outside the garage. Time for a handyman to check around the garage [inside and out] and seal off the cracks where a mouse can easily slip through. Maybe the rubber flap under the large garage door needs replacing. If rats are coming in, then there must be large openings in that garage as rats tend to be the size of a small squirrel.
This woman is still going to have problems with filth and everything else with taking the dog out of the equation. Why cant this woman walk her dog properly or pay someone to come and do it? A 70 pound dog needs exercise. Or hire someone to train dog to use doggie door? It can be done if a person isn't a lazy sack of crap.
And yes getting the dog out of that hell hole of an environment is probably better for the dog if you can find a decent home for him. A shelter should be the last resort not a dumping ground when an animal becomes inconvenient.
Most people should never have animals or children because they are incapable of caring for either.
And this is why the elderly should not be given a pet as a panacea to their loneliness. It's not fair to that dog or cat.
MIL needs to be in an assisted living at the bare minimum.
How did the exterminator know about the missing dog flap without coming to the house to inspect it? Is that actually what the exterminator said, or has an assumption been made? The thing is, a dog flap that can be opened as required by an elderly dog would certainly allow ingress to a rat, so I'm puzzled by this. It's the exterminator's job to advise as well as to exterminate. Has s/he had an opportunity to spell out the reality direct to MIL?
What sort of area is the house in? - rural, urban, suburban? Are there widespread pest control issues?
People buy pets when they want them and can care for them. With many dogs and other pets, their life span is more than ten years. So the choices are 1) Never buy a pet because you may not be able to care for it in 10 years’ time; 2) Buy it now and euthanise it when you can no longer cope with it; or 3) Send it to a shelter when you can’t cope with it. However 3) is usually the same as 2), because there are few homes for old animals that are incontinent and also need expensive vet treatment. However nice the shelter people are, reality is that if the money runs out and no-one wants the pet, it will be euthanised.
Unless you want to wipe out pets, it is pointless to insult people who have loved their pet but can no longer manage, and have to say good bye.
I hope so.
The rats are not their fault. It's the legal duty of the caregiver who comes in a few hours a week to report on the rats.
The MIL's asinine stubbornness and refusal to 'allow' her place to be cleaned up or to relocate is HER problem. Not the problem of the OP (her DIL) or her son. They made her many offers to help. They have given her options. She refuses. So leave her to her spoiled hoarded food and vermin.
If APS calls her son because the caregiver reported, he should tell them the truth. The OP should too. That they both made several attempts to help the MIL but they are not social workers. If APS thinks placing her in a facility is what's best, then do it with their blessing.
YOU and DH have zero legal responsibility, so no, I can't see that YOU would be reported.
The FACT that MIL has an infestation of vermin and doesn't recognize that ita problem is an indication of her inability to manage her own living situation.
APS should be informed that she's a vulnerable adult. Let them visit and try to solve the problem.
Did the doctor say she should not live alone?
It’s not a therapeutic fib to tell Jeanne that she goes to a senior hotel while the house is being evaluated and treated. I would seize upon this opportunity.
Then just follow up that you found a senior dog luxury spa for the duration. A fib, but it gets her separated from an animal that is a health hazard and frankly sounds like she’s suffering. Euthanasia is the moral choice for the dog and really for mil, even if you have to lie to mil about it.
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You say you are worried that if you report the rat infestation, Jeanne won't speak to you anymore and you'll have less "input" into her situation.
Do you HONESTLY believe that someone who would live with rats should be running their own life?
She needs to be protected from herself, like a 5 year old with a loaded gun.
She needs to be taken from that home and taken to someplace else to live with supervision and a legal guardian/conservator.
Will she know it's you who reported the rats? You could not report it and she might STILL blame you guys because she is no longer compis mentis.
Next time you meet a pest control officer ask for his/her best horror stories. Nice people ignore problems too, and the fact that your friends don't talk about it at dinner parties doesn't mean they've never found droppings on their swanky kitchen islands.
But I'm glad that Maryjann's MIL is being brought round to face up to the issue. May it be happily resolved.
Her problem-solving with regards to her incontinent animal seems inadequate.
I think that her ability to solve her living problems is demonstrably impaired and warrants intervention.
I would err on the side of calling in APS to determine which side of the line this falls on.
your husband is in denial and you’re concerned about company you have visiting?
Call APS NOW and get her out of there. I’m flabbergasted by your comments.
putting a dog in a locked cage in a garage with rats is an improvement???? No, it’s animal abuse.
You took her to look at ALs cuz you don’t want to end up in a “panicked emergency”. Dear Lord, your idea of what an emergency is should be checked.
Have the dog placed in a no-kill shelter and give the excuse that she ran off and can't be found after taking her out for a walk.
Your MIL is not able to make her own sound decisions and it's time for you to acknowledge that her living with a rat infestation requires her placement in a care setting. Period. The rats are not only exposing her to a host of parasites - both external and internal - and a host of diseases, along with the poor dog, they are also destroying her primary asset: the house and its contents.
As for the non-responsive Neuro: call the clinic system's patient support and demand that follow-up that seems to have been lost in the shuffle. Btw, if MIL isn't on an Advantage Plan, no referral is needed; she should be evaluated by an elder care team. You need medical documentation of her cognitive status and others types of Drs can provide that, not just Neurologists. You're accepting the delays of a run-around and you shouldn't.
Overall, you're being far too passive and must begin to take serious action for her sake and your own. Maybe try one final time to get her into a AL facility and if that fails, report her situation to APS, do so now.
You are enabling an elder with unsound reasoning skills to remain in an unsafe environment and the poor dog is suffering too. Take a long clear look at what you've described and act now to protect her from her own bad choices and get her placed; she's a vulnerable adult.
Once the dog is placed, get that exterminator in to save the value that remains in her home. This is untenable and should not go on for one more day.
And do you have the legals all tied up and everything in place for someone to take the reins? Do you trust fully that her care provider hasn't also brought her to an attorney and changed prior legal papers? One never knows.
Smell that toast? It's burning. I say all of this without apology because it's too far past any reasonable response from her family members, including you.
There are food sources and that's why they are there. No resources, no vermin.
Get the sticky rat traps. That's what we did with my mom's house, get all food safely put away. Tin containers are required, rats and mice eat plastics and cardboard. Place those traps along the walls and both sides of the doggie door. She can just throw them away when she catches something and replace it. Outside of the house needs deterrents, we used moth balls and chlorine tablets placed across all the walls leading to the back door. Then I sprayed everything with 409, it is great at killing the scent trail these vermin leave.
My mom doesn't have any dementia, she just doesn't take care of things and lets food stay on the floor, leaves dog food down all the time and feeds the critters outside. All of which means easy resources for vermin and when the city did sewer work in her area the rats relocated and her house was an easy target.
My mom couldn't handle all of this alone. It feels overwhelming to get any kind of infestation, she needed our help and our ability to find solutions that worked. Your MIL needs that now. It is bigger then her abilities, you and hubby need to plan a week trip and help get this under control.
My mom had a flip out because I threw food away. I had to stop her from digging stuff out of the trash can. So be prepared to have a battle about perfectly fine items being thrown out.
Once we placed deterrents outside we were able to get all the critters that had moved in.
I don't know what the answer is for her actual condition but, she needs help clearing her house of this current emergency and your husband is it by default. He can speak with exterminators, search the web, do what we did or ???. But, he really needs to act now to help her.
The rats are a big problem that you can see if you have a UV light. Or you can take my word for it. I have had rodents of all kinds as pets. I have also had a lot of experience with other animals. I also lived in a place that was very old and near a river, and we had our share of rodent visitors. I had cats that were great hunters but that doesn't solve the problem because the cats and dogs can get sick from the rats. So can people. Rats are known to carry things like hantavirus and even plague (yes, the Black Plague from the Middle Ages is alive and well out west in the US and several people and dogs get infected every year) so getting rid of the rodents is paramount. Rats can and do chew through wires in the walls and that can lead to fires. Rats can and will bite your MIL while she sleeps. Rats will spread urine as they walk (mostly the males but females as well) and they are very smart so they can evade a lot of capture attempts. With a UV light you can see these urine trails. They are on the bananas. They are in the dog's food if it is left on the floor. Call APS. They will go out and assess the situation and they will start a process that can be out of your hands, which it sounds like is for the best. You are the DIL and they don't listen to you. Your husband is afraid to take care of this situation and I can understand that, although he should stand up to her. That's likely a lifelong issue, however, the fact remains that you can't and he can't force an adult to do anything. If she is mentally ok according to professionals who assess her, it is her perogative to live in filth if she wants. You are aware of this if you grew up with hoarders.
So how about you give yourself permission to care compassionately for yourself and your MIL and even your husband and figure out a place to put the dog. Then call APS. Otherwise you may find MIL on the floor, dead or injured, being attacked by rats. It is frustrating and you have my sympathy. You are a caring person or you wouldn't even be writing about it to ask for help. Good luck and keep us updated.
problem.
As rats and mice move, they are constantly peeing and pooping. That's how they 'mark' their territory and send signals to other rats and mice. Once a house has been as marked up as your MIL's, the rats are reading this as an open bar! They will chew through anything to get in, knowing that the place is now 'theirs'.
It's gross and not remotely "OK" for this to go on.
Caregivers ABSOLUTELY can and should report this. Neighbors, family--the more calls the more attention to be paid to this untenable situation.
Track her down, or call the vet that last saw the dog, or ask for help. There are no-kill shelters that will take animals they feel that they can help/nurse back to health/rehome. Some dogs have health conditions (who knows what the rats have shared with the dog), and really are not going to have much quality of life. If dog cannot be rehomed, please be responsible and follow the guidance of the treating vet.
Tell MIL whatever you want to tell her as a reason for dog's absence. Just stick to the same story, dont get dragged into explanations or justifications. The dog does not deserve to suffer, as it has been doing for a while now.
MIL - call police for welfare check...they will get APS involved quickest and APS can often help make a plan for her safety (first) and her living situation (facility, likely assisted living). APS doesnt pay for all of those things, but can have a conservator appointed to manage MIL money, so that takes your husband off of the hot seat.
It will be tough going for a while, but if your son is the only adult child she has (or that is in contact with her) then he needs to step up and ask agencies for help in being sure she is in a place where she is safe and her needs are met. She will be angry,,,,,but if she is making such poor decisions now and lacks the judgement that having rats in your house is a very very unsanitary situation, then the time for independent living is over. And she doesnt see the dog's needs clearly, either. You and your husband dont have to take the dog or MIL to your home or pay for what she needs, but you do need to call in the experts who can help you manage these situations. Good luck.
"Can you get sick from rat droppings?
People get HPS when they breath in hantaviruses. This can happen when rodent urine and droppings that contain a hantavirus are stirred up into the air. People can also become infected when they touch mouse or rat urine, droppings, or nesting materials that contain the virus and then touch their eyes, nose, or mouth.
Diseases Directly Transmitted by Rats
Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome: This is a viral disease that is transmitted by the rice rat. This disease is spread in one of three ways: inhaling dust that is contaminated with rat urine or droppings, direct contact with rat feces or urine, and infrequently due to the bite of rat.
Leptospirosis: This is a bacterial disease that can be transmitted by coming into contact with infected water by swimming, wading or kayaking or by contaminated drinking water. Individuals may be at increased risk of Leptospirosis infections if they work outdoors or with animals.
Rat-bite Fever: This disease may be transmitted through a bite, scratch or contact with a dead rat.
Salmonellosis: Consuming food or water that is contaminated by rat feces bacteria can cause this disease.
Diseases Indirectly Transmitted by Rats
Plague: This disease is carried by rats and transmitted by fleas in the process of taking a blood meal. Domestic rats are the most common reservoir of plague.
Colorado Tick Fever: This is a viral disease that is transmitted by the bite of a tick that has taken a blood meal from a bushy-tailed woodrat.
Cutaneous Leishmaniasis: This disease is a parasite that is transmitted to a person by the bite of an infected sand fly that has fed on a wild woodrat."
He thinks YOUR reaction is 'over the top' while rats are chewing up his mother's home and leaving hazardous and poisonous droppings all over it?
Denial is not just a river in Egypt, apparently.