Elder care-Demands by elderly can be selfish and unrealistic!

26 years ago my ILs returned to their original home state to live near their siblings. This move was heartily encouraged by their siblings, they were literally cheered on as they moved back "home".

My question at the time was "How will any of us (children) be able to help them when they are older now that they have moved several states away from everybody?" Yes, I can be annoying to my husband's family. All of the "home" state clan just looked puzzled when I asked.

Turn the clock forward and now I understand that they were puzzled that I didn't understand that the expectation was that the children would move to parents' home state when caregiving was required. Seriously, that was what all the older relatives assumed would happen.

When bad times finally did occur, the home state relatives were stumped that none of the children would leave established jobs (in today's economy!) in far away states to move to home state to take care of the folks.

I have read on this site the tales of many who have done exactly that, left jobs and homes to take care of their elderly parents. Some of them seemed to have ended up with financial disaster situations resulting from their loving assistance. We should learn from them. This would never have been a consideration for us. Never. The parents had their fun using those healthy golden retired years to hang out with their siblings and have a good time doing what they wanted. Now that health issues require care, the expectation is that their children drop their lives and come take care of them.

All those years my ILs expected everyone to come to their home if they wanted to see them. They rarely traveled to see their children and grandchildren, this caused a great deal of resentment as a retired couple has much more free time than working couples with kids. Their last visit to my home was in 1990. They hadn't been in my home for 22 years when we moved them here last year. My husband tried and tried to get them to come visit, the kids birthdays, holidays, high school graduations and college graduations and WEDDINGS happened without his parents. They didn't want to spend their money on such trips as they wanted to save their money.

I support the right of the older generation to do all these things. They may do whatever they want with their money. I appreciate it even more as I spend this carefully saved money on MIL's nursing home care. Maybe they would have preferred to use some of that money to visit their grandchildren, but that was not their choice at the time.

I reserve the same right for myself.

My parents did the same thing. Didn't really enjoy living near 4 of my siblings and their children. They hated the endless parade of grandchildren's activities. Now I do understand that being a grandparent is not everyone's cup of tea. BUT, to move away from everyone, again several states, to be near their own siblings during those lovely golden healthy years is going to cause some hurt feelings. Now that their fun is done, they want help.

At least in my family my mom returned to live near the 4 siblings for this needed care.
And over those years they attended graduations, holidays, and visits in everyone's homes.

Relationships should be reciprocal. If you cater to a selfish person you will just end up feeling used.

I am sorry but do not understand Grandparents moving away and not wanting to be involved with those children! I would do my caregiving from a distance under these conditions. Very sad family situation!

You are right about relationships being reciprocal. We all have to live with the choices we make.

I read a good blog last night on the tendency toward selfishness in elders. I talk sometimes about the tunnel vision that sets in to many older people. This blog also addressed and tried to explain the why. They (gracegems) wrote that as infirmity sets in, people lose the ability to do things they once enjoyed. As they sit in the house inactive, it becomes unimportant to them that someone else may enjoy the freedoms that they once enjoyed themselves. Their own life and problems become so large in their minds that they stop seeing the wants and needs of the people around them.

I am not entirely happy with gracegems' explanation. I feel there is a huge gap missing in the explanation. I do agree that many people become narcissistic as they age. I mean, why would anyone expect their child to leave their home, job, and spouse to come care for them in another state if there was not some pathological narcissism going on? I can't think of any circumstance where I could ask such a thing of anyone.

Adult children, particularly women, can often get pushed into a bad situation by feelings of guilt and obligation. The parents may want to stay in their home and have no one come in, so that means that one or more children are expected to sacrifice what may be several years of their lives. Sometimes it helps to look at these things by pulling ourselves out of the emotion. The healthy child will simply find a place near to them, tell Mom and Dad they can either move there or figure out something on their own, and stick with what they say. The parents are retired, and everyone else's lives should not rotate around the elders' desire to stay in a certain place. This is not meant to sound mean, just realistic. Parents can only do what we'll let them. We can be so programmed to obey and try to please parents that we end up making choices that are not the best for anyone involved.

OnceHated- my IL's did the same thing- moved across country in their 80s to be where it was warmer. My husband had to spend alot of $$ and vacation time whenever one got ill. Now, FIL has passed away, and MIL is living with us. She NEVER showed any interest in any of her grandchildren, openly disliking several from young ages. She has been so cruel over the years, I must admit my sympathy for her is very low. No one wants to visit, and she crys to my husband as if we should feel bad for her. You cannot show zero interest in children as they are growing up, and then expect they will want to have a relationship when they are grown. You reap what you sow.

JessieBelle, the selfishness has puzzled me for years. Not as much with my ILs as their alcoholism taught us over the years that addictions come first for people who have them. But my own parents became more and more selfish as they aged. After my dad died and mom returned to live near 4 of her children, I have tried to coach her long distance. Things like urging her to show an interest in the great-grandchildren. This would help build new relationships for her with her children and grandchildren. She doesn't want the grandchildren or the great-grandchildren in her home (she doesn't want them touching her things - the grandkids are all adults except one!) and she doesn't seek them out in their own homes.

This is very difficult for me to understand as I love children and would be thrilled to have grandchildren.

3 of my 4 siblings that she now lives near were careful to not let her schedule them into her life. She likes to keep a regular weekly schedule and tried at first to get them to adhere to her desires. Example: She wanted my brothers to come by once a week and take her garbage out for her, once a week, every week, on different days of course. The 4th sibling, the youngest sister has been the one that felt guilty and now Mom has her doing stuff nearly every day. Of course 4th sibling is beginning to be resentful of carrying the whole load of expectations. Everyone else was careful, but now that my youngest sister is in, she can't figure how to get herself out without feeling guilty.

I tried talking to Mom about paying baby sister as she has money problems. Newly divorced, 2 kids at home and her hours got cut to part time. Mom informed me that the time spent with her was as beneficial to my sister as it is was to her. She really believes that. My sister goes to her house every Saturday night and used to bring her kids. My mom let her know that the kids weren't welcome and my sister continues to go there every Saturday night, now without her kids.

I asked my mom if she wishes she had gone into a retirement community and she responded that she didn't need one as long as she had my baby sister. Yet she truly, truly believes that all the time my sister spends with her is equally benefiting my sister. Baby sister gets more resentful at the other siblings as time passes - but that's an old story on this board isn't it?

MyWitsEnd, thanks for sharing and sorry that your MIL didn't have any interest or affection for your children. It is heartbreaking isn't it? My grandmother was the most influential and kindest influence in my life. My kids had 4 grandparents who just didn't care.

My MIL is in a local nursing home. Her vascular dementia totally changed her personality. For the first time in her life she is loving and interested in others. Since its not really her, it doesn't mean anything to anyone. You can imagine that the residents and staff of her nursing home just can't believe that this lovely, sweet old lady doesn't get any visitors besides my husband and myself. One of her sons is so resentful that he hasn't spoken to her since before FIL's death. You would think that even with all that had gone on in the past, the son would at least call his mother after his father died. In their later years, they reaped what they sowed and like your MIL they complained heartily to everyone about their "uncaring children" and wanted everyone to feel badly for them.

Sometimes the residents and the staff will say things to my husband or myself suggesting that we should spend more time with her. I visit 3 times a week to make sure she is being properly cared for. I take her to doctor appointments and out for lunch and shopping - much less often now that she is stage 6 dementia. I am helping form a family council and interact frequently with the other residents. My husband visits her once a week, its all he can take. We are both very kind and loving to her as this dementia version enjoys hugs and kisses. Its not really her anymore, just a sort of being in his mom's body that has to be taken care of. I take care of her as I would want taken care of if I was in a similar state. I wouldn't want any of my kids sacrificing their life for me.

It does hurt my feelings when the residents or staff say things to us and if someone presses a bit too much I lay it on the line, "She was an alcoholic her entire adult life, abused her children, was hateful to IL's and had no interest in her grandchildren. That's why no one is here".

As littletonway said, she is living with her choices. As you said, she is reaping what she sowed.

I have always thought that the worst way to console a child who has an addict for a parent is to say "honey, your mama (daddy) loves you". Why would we teach children that abuse and neglect is love?

On a side note, my MIL never admitted to her alcoholism until her dementia was in full bloom. During her geriatric psych assessment she happily detailed it with her history.

My elderly parents were incredibly selfish - they actually bought the flat next door to me just so i would be legally compelled to look after them in their old age instead of putting them in a nursing home - argument being, it is sinful and unscriptural to put your parents in a nursing home.

well, Dad got dementia and i was forced by my mum and doctor to help look after dad.

when dad died, mum got dementia. Because mum wanted help from no one but me, the doctor forced me to be mums carer, saying i had no rights at all just because i have a disability - history of cancer, radiotherapy and four major operations including major back surgery.

things got to the stage mum posed a public safety risk. Still the doctor pandered to mum's selfishness by ordering me to care for mum all by myself without any help from any one.

but when I threatened the doctor with legal action, he got very scared and realized he would loose his medical practitioner license if a tragedy occurred.

long story short. Mum is now in s nursing home - the doctors admitted it should have happened five years ago.

but, in the nursing home, mum's selfishness continued. She rang me constantly day and night demanding i get her home and look after her myself. The only way to get some peace was to get my home phone disconnected. Then mum started ringing my cell phone, but fortunately my cell phone is a smart phone that can block numbers. I blocked her room number. Then the administration rang me to pressure me to go spend more time with mum, but i simply hung up and blocked their number. I gave the nursing home the phone numbers of all my brothers and sisters in law, so if anything happens to mum, the nursing home will have to contact them. I've done my bit. I cared for my selfish mother for nine years. I now wash my hands of her. My brothers and sisters in law can now take the calls from the nursing home. As it is i damaged my spine looking after mum and can no longer look after myself properly and need help with my housework - and all because my mum was too selfish to accept any help from anyone but me

Debralee, I think you are preaching to the converted here. :)

I have just run out of answers. Maybe that's fine because this one is more of a statement - a true one! - than a question. What you are really supposed to do if you are the elder is a) don't eat your children alive and b) take care of yourself as well as possible to try to avoid needing total care for years and years due to preventable frailty or complications. Ideally you have the foresight and wherewithal to make plans for the unpreventable things that can happen to anyone, like Alzheimer's. Surely the future matters, and the future can't exist solely to feed the past, because then there is nothing left. How do you get people to stop making and living by such incredibly wrong and self-serving assumptions about such fundamental things? I don't know where to begin.

And if you are on the receiving end of such absolute bull - that you should give up everything and everyone else in your life to go be a full time solo caregiver - not out of love or because there is not a good alternative, but because it's simply a requirement and an expectation - what do you do? There are so many things to weigh in making these decisions. I can't see abandoning your children because a parent wants you and only you to do it all for them, and then because they have you, they can brag about not "needing" any other help; I can't see abandoning a parent because they are difficult and unreasonable, with egocentricity made even worse by the loss of empathy and perspective taking that so often goes with dementia. Rocks and hard places.

What can I say - my husband is getting very slowly better from his hip surgery now seven weeks ago, but if I am around, there are always more chores for me to do. I cannot get to work on time because there is always one more thing I should do before I go. The one thing he really can't quite manage is to put his socks on...it's so good to know I am worth as much as an $11.95 plastic sock aid that we won't use because he has me. He really said that. I am rarely in a good spot to refuse something, though occasionally I can say "no you need the walk - go get that yourself" and its a good thing because he would still let me do everything I needed to do in the first week post op when I did take time off work and reasonably could. BTW I'm paying for the time off, I have to make up extra time on service and work more holidays...I'm tired...and I think I can't sleep because I am so angry about being a sock aid(e). I have to get up extra early again tomorrow as I really have to be somewhere at 8 AM, and his ONLY concern is that I will be here to put on his socks. I haven't told him that he'd better just leave his socks on tomorrow night because I am going to outreach leaving out from here at 6 AM.

I guess the answer is that however much we love our caregivees, we absolutely must learn to say no to unreasonable requests when we can't reasonably cater to them. I mean, it was fine if my mom wanted a certain type of old-fashioned phone directory thingie that she could not ever actually use, and it took three hours to find one online, but it made her a little happier; but not fine if she thought we could keep paying upkeep and taxes on a car she would never drive and a home she would never live in because she would not have in-home caregivers and threw out everyone who talked with her about it.

The whole damn non-caregiving world may sit there in judgement of us when we do but that's too damn bad.

I am so glad this board allows a little mild profanity.

I'm so glad to find this blog. Everywhere I have looked, I've been instructed to think about the poor elderly and how hard it is for them. I agree with that, but the fact is that parents create unfair situations for their children, and it's not right. My MIL lives a plane flight away from each of her children and says that she wants to "age in place" and not leave her home or town. Even though she is 90 and not always in good health, caring for an ill spouse, and MOST IMPORTANTLY has never bothered to sit down with her children to discuss how often she expected them to visit and how involved she needs them to be in hiring and managing her husband's caregiving and the many home services she requires. Then, of course, they also must drop everything to fly down for the periodic health emergencies that come up. I think it is the epitome of self-centeredness to be past your mid-80's and have no realistic plan for caring for yourself and your spouse. She's always been incredibly self-focused and with this last stretch, I've lost all patience with her. I don't go to see her, since someone has to take care of our kids and home while my husband flies out to meet her needs, and I'm losing my ability to provide him with the emotional support he needs because I resent him participating in her selfishness. Thank you for this place where I can express my frustrations!

Ah, the old "age in place" saying that we see on TV advertisements for insurance, finances, etc. I just sigh when I hear one ad say "have them live at home instead of in a home". Then we see Grandma who looks 70 smiling on the front porch hugging her family.....

Or the elderly man who's wife had died and he's in the car going to his son's or daughter's home because they got financing to add on a room. Who are we kidding here. Those are sweet ads but not the norm from what I have been reading on the forums.

My parents could have very easily purchased a large condo at a retirement village, same square footage as their current home... Dad could be swimming in the indoor pool.... he and Mom could enjoy the numerous restaurants that are available on site.... got a sore throat, just walk to the next building to see one of the two doctors on-site... need to deposit a dividend check, ditto, bank on-site.... need a greeting card, ditto, a lovely store on-site.... need groceries, free transportation, etc.

But why should my parents spend one dime at such a place when they have me on-site [well, just around the corner] to take time off from work to run here to there, and spend hours every month sitting in various doctor waiting rooms.... totally stressed out because this had become my second job [sigh].

All I can say, I hope when we are our parents age that we remember these things, and don't repeat history.

I actually had started into a whole new paragraph about the "aging in place" marketing industry and then decided I needed to get back to work. But I think it's a real problem. When I first heard the term, I did a Google search on it. All that came up were builder's ads and home health care agency ads. Makes no sense. If you are really looking forward to a decade of largely independent living, why do you need the equivalent of a hospital room on your first floor and the ability to access 24 hour care at any given moment? I agree that one potential upside is that hopefully the next generation will be better planners. My husband and I have sworn to each other that by our late 70s, we will have researched and put our name in at a retirement facility. Earlier if either of us have health issues prior to that. Maybe this site should have a pledge page to that effect!

Patricia, we will have a ton of the first wave of baby boomers who will never have the fun care free retirement that their own parents have had.... mainly because their parents need help so that THEY can "age in place".

And I predict that the early wave of baby boomers will never see the age that their parents are living.... I will never see my Mom's age of 97 or Dad's age of 93.... or even 87 or 83.... hopefully maybe 77 or 73 because my health isn't good because of the stress.

It's impossible to say this in public, but having a needy, demented elder nearby or even, heaven forbid, living with you -- actually wrecks your life. My father is in memory care and I'm the only one who visits him, buys his clothes, handles all medical, all bills, all insurance, all taxes, everything. My brother is AWOL. If brother develops dementia at some point, or any major illness, I will not be on the front lines for him. My father has excellent residential care, plus seven hours per day of an additional helper, all costing 13.5 K per month. (College savings for the grandkids, anyone?!) And he's going to live forever. His mother died just shy of 102, and my father is 82. He demands that I visit him every day, but I have children at home -- and a career I need to get back to. Just very, very sad to see the level of neediness and constant demands coming from a man who once really cared about the lives of others. I've been caring for my dad for more than four years, and I need a way out. I've lost too much weight, too much sleep, too many career opportunities, too much of my own life -- and I need to reclaim my own identity somehow. I will do ANYTHING to never place my children in this position in the future. ANYTHING IN THE WORLD TO ALLOW THEM TO BE FREE and accomplish their own dreams, nurture their own families. The love needs to be paid FORWARD to the next generations!!! How have we lost sight of this simple fact?

Ellen, when I read what you wrote it occurred to me that by doing the things that we do for our parents, we are indeed setting things up so we'll have to depend on children. So many caregivers sacrifice jobs and employment advances to take care of aging parents. I wouldn't be surprised if family caregivers have less retirement money than other people. And LTC insurance with those premiums -- forget about it! Many states have a partnership plan we might want to consider. It's only for Medicaid, but at least we wouldn't have to spend down the little we do have to go on it. I thought about doing this, but I doubt I'll stay in Alabama after my mother dies.

The world seems out of balance. The sad thing that if we run out of money people will just say we should have planned better. But how can you plan for someone who continues to need care for many years and wants to age in place? Working from home used to be an answer, but a big part of that economy (online sales) is faltering terribly.

I guess the best advice is "don't quit your day job" to anyone who asks.

Ellen, I guess that as much as it wreaks havoc to have dependent in-laws a plane flight away (our situation), proximity creates its own challenges. It's additionally complicated when memory care is involved because it's not like your father is 100% responsible for becoming demanding, yet that doesn't decrease the pressure on you. I hope you can find a way to create some space for yourself soon. Your last few sentences actually made me wonder what real solutions are possilbe. We are living longer, so the need for care is likely. How do we really help our kids avoid the situations we face? Even if we choose residential care, how can we keep our promise to them not to be so needy? I know I can choose NOT to be like my mother-in-law who has her full faculties intact. But what if we have memory loss, or emotional difficulties that make us needy?

JessieBelle, I think in addition to lost career opportunities, it's sad to lose time with your own family. I know when my in-laws started into this decline, my kids were in high school. Yes, they were becoming more independent, but at that age, there are so few years at home left to be all together. And because my relatively healthy MIL was so self-focused, she continued to demand that we come down to visit them for holidays, etc. since my FIL could no longer travel. Finally I said no more. As it is my husband was visiting monthly -- plus the periodic health emergency visits. That's enough time apart as a family focusing on her needs and desires. I had grandparents on both sides who lived into their late 80s/early 90s, and they did not insist that our extended family life be planned around their desires. The ones who lived 3 hours away by car I saw maybe twice a year during that time, while my mom would visit maybe once a quarter. If I have my wits about me, I really do plan to dedicate myself to staying in the background of my children's lives in my last decade.

Elders (or spouses or children) can "demand" anything, reasonable or selfish or impossible.

We all have the opportunity and obligation to decide what demands we will meet, which we will decline, and where we can compromise. We can't really blame our own decisions on other people. To say to a spouse or children "I'm sorry I wasn't there for you, but my parents demanded all my attention" is simply not acceptable. To face our own futures without resources because we couldn't acquire them while we met our parents "demands" is irresponsible.

I absolutely agree that some elders are way too demanding and have totally unrealistic expectations.

But ultimately we have to take responsibility for our own decisions.

love it jeanne .
the whole elder care issue aside for a moment , " owning " our own faults in any situation very much appeals to me . i momentarily lost a gate key this week partly because of a cheap chinese wire tie that failed , but MOSTLY because i was ignorant enough to trust the wire tie that i knew was unreliable .
pretty silly example but one still fresh on my mind .

We do have to take responsibility for our own decisions, it's true. But there is much, much more pressure when all the elder care is foisted on a single family member. My brother tells himself it is my "choice" to care for my father, while it is his choice to remain focused on his own life and render no care whatsoever. But in so doing, he consigns me to a kind of unremitting slavery, day-in, day-out, and I can't see any end to it. If there were three or four family members contributing, this would be much more do-able. As it is, I'm constantly overwhelmed and exhausted. For a person with any sort of conscience or moral compass, it's not possible to feel good about not fulfilling your parent's demands, even when they're unremitting and all-consuming. My father wants me with him all the time, and it's just not possible. Yes, it's my choice not to accede to all his demands. Yes, he has dementia and the demands will only become more extreme. I just don't see an answer that allows me to be anything other than an indentured servant for the time being. I'm struggling with this situation, and I truly feel awful about my private, but profound conviction that advanced dementia is worse than death and I wish the good Lord would take my father swiftly.

No, EllenCanter, no. I don't buy that your brother consigned you to slavery. Your own decisions do that. You have just as much power to decide your role as he does to decide his. If you are making your decisions on based on your moral compass and conscience, good for you! At least give yourself credit for acting on your convictions. At least acknowledge that you could make other choices, but make the decisions you do consciously. Your brother is no more responsible for your morals or conscience than he is for your father's dementia.

Your life would be happier or your tasks more manageable if your brother would help. It would be even better if you had three siblings who all helped. It would be wonderful if you had unlimited resources and could afford to pay for amazing help. It is what it is. You make the best decisions you can to cope with it.

But at least give yourself credit for the sacrifices you a willingly making. You deserve a few gold stars, not to feel this was "foisted" on you by anyone or anything other than the awful, terrible, very bad, and devastating disease your father has. Your are doing good things. Take pride in that!

Thank you for your kind words, jeannegibbs. I guess that, at this moment, I'm too tired to take pride in the sacrifice. It is not lost on me that neither of my parents ever cared for their own parents in this manner, nor would they have been willing to do so. My brother, also, chooses to care only for himself. I do think the compassionate, caring people end up being somewhat enslaved and impoverished by the takers of the world. Is it really a "choice" to be compassionate or to sacrifice for those you love? If you're a good person, I think it's more of a necessity. It feels as though the choice has been taken out of the equation altogether.

Can I just ask you all something? For those of you living within 30-60 minutes of your needy elder, how often do you visit in order to assist them or keep them company? Is there a difference between how often they ask for you to visit and how often you actually do? What do you tell them about why you can't be there daily?

It struck me reading these last set of posts that probably the reason we are here is because, like Ellen, we want to do the right thing. And if you have a demanding elder in your life, that it is an impossible goal to meet without killing ourselves. So we feel guilty and reach out to others to check that we are not being selfish. I liked what Jeanne Gibbs had to say that we have to take responsibility for making our spouse and our children and ourselves (which includes two parts: our personal lives and our jobs) equal in importance to the demanding elder in our lives.

Ellen, I also wanted to say that my husband is like you. He's always played the "good son" role in his family, making up for his sibling's detachment. His sister did very little the first couple of years my in-laws decline, and he completely enabled that so that pattern got set. She would actually send us links to research about how it is better for elders to stay in their homes. That was hilarious. Finally there was a medical crisis, and my husband flew down but told her he was leaving 48 hours later. She could either fly down or arrange care for her father who would be left alone with his dementia in an an unsafe situation. Suprisingly, she found that to be very disruptive to her life, and after that, she got a little better. They made an agreement that she would visit every other month. She still tries to wiggle out of that, but my husband has been good about not filling in when she does. None of this was easy for him, and it won't be for you. But maybe you can try picking a few pieces and giving them to your brother with the clear message that if he doesn't do these things, they won't get done.

Hi Ellen, to answer your question about visiting -- I live about 3 hours drive away from my mother, who has dementia. She and my father (who died in Dec. 2009) moved away in 2001. I'm married/no kids, but do work, have pets, and so on. At that time for several years, I would visit every month, driving down Saturday, and back on Sunday afternoon. It was difficult for me to lose that time, since I use it to catch up on all the household stuff and errand running, but felt obligated. It was also stressful, because my parents had a tense relationship with each other, and my mother and I were never close.
Since my dad died, I would still visit, but maybe every 6 weeks (again, staying overnight). It wasn't until last year that I stopped staying overnight, and would only come by for lunch, doctor's appointments, etc. I'd use my vacation time to do this, if I couldn't do it on a weekend.
My mother's dementia continued to get worse (still is, obviously), and our relationship continued to deteriorate, which I didn't expect, but should have.
Now, she has home care for a few hours a day, about 4 days a week. I haven't seen her since late July, when I had to take her car away without her consent. She doesn't call me except once in a blue moon, and that is only when she thinks she has to speak to me in order to get something she wants (I handle all her affairs). I know this is the only workable solution for a person like her, who is her own worst enemy. I still second guess myself regularly though, especially this time of year.

Ellen, you asked how often do we visit our parent(s).... I live literally around the corner in the same subdivision as my parents, and I would say I stop by once a week to get Mom's grocery list. I am there maybe a total of 15 minutes, and I have to get back home to place the grocery order on-line before the dead-line. My sig other picks up the grocery order early the following morning and delivers the order to them. And I will see my parents maybe another time frame during the week if my parents have an appointment or errand they need. If I don't see them, I will call them in the evening.

We do get together on birthday's and holidays... but not on the exact day of the celebration because of my sig other's work schedule. He has Sundays off so the birthday/holiday will be on that Sunday closest to the date.

Many thanks freqflyer, looloo and PatriciaMt! Best of luck to you on your respective journeys as caregivers.

I agree and don't agree with jeannegibbs' remarks about sibling responsibility. Yes, we each decide our own role, but I don't think any of us decide this in a vacuum. Ellencantor's brother can turn his back and refuse to help only because she is doing it all. Likewise, she is forced to carry the whole burden by his unwillingness to get involved. I think in most cases the "uninvolved" siblings would not advocate, or even tolerate, the withdrawal of all siblings' help for the parent. Generally, I think they want the parent to be helped just as much as the involved siblings do, and believe just as strongly that the adult children have the duty to help their parents. However, as long another sibling is discharging that duty, they can go on being uninvolved. As Ellencantor's brother if it would be okay for her to move away, if it would be okay for nobody to help the father. He'd probably be appalled, and be the first person to pressure her to keep fulfilling the role. JMHO.

Reading all the stories has been truly enlightening. Here I was thinking that my brother and I were experiencing something uncommon. My father is extremely frail, has kyphosis and the beginnings of dementia. My mother is selfish in the extreme and largely well. Currently they are in respite care for 2 weeks. We have jumped through hoops to organize it. The entire family is run ragged. Cooking, cleaning, running them to the doctors, hospital, etc all while they refuse help from organisations that provide it for free. They are in a state of the art new aged care facility, which quite frankly, I could move into quite easily when I retire with staff who are wonderful and caring. But according to them the food is mass produced, they can't self medicate and stupify themselves with tramadol. I just don't get it. I am going to read them the riot act I think. They have a small window of opportunity to stay here permanently or move back home again where we Have to not live our lives in order to support them while they live in their own mess. I am so over this. Sorry to rant just well and truly fed up, exhausted and astonished at their level of selfishness.

I have also found myself in a living hell for 27 years I have been involved with my elderly parents. My mother has suffered from schizophernia all of my life. My father spent his life at work (as he could not cope with my mother's mental illness). As children my brother and I just got by. Life was hard and we knew not why.

When I got married 33 years ago I moved a hundred miles away and my father managed to engulf my newly married only brother and his family in his buisness. This was short lived and my brother and his family moved to England.

Some 5 years later my father rang and told me he could not cope with my mother on his own. He asked if he could move to live beside me and my family. After speaking to my husband the move was agreed.

How stupid I had been to sanction his request. The next 27 years was on a sliding scale 'all about them'. My children and my husband grew to despise them and eventually so did I. When they asked to move they forgot to tell us that they would monopolise our entire lives. Making every day all about them. I can't believe the tricks they played to ensure we would become their slaves. It's like the song by Meatloaf ' we are now praying for the end of time'.

The last 4 years have been the worst years of my life. A serious of dying runs, planning their funerals, dealing with their care plans, wills, hospital visits, shopping for their specialist health foods, clothes, doctors appointments, outings, their birthdays, Christmas shopping and cards for them etc. etc.

My father's health declining health added so much presure to the load. He was incontinent (but refused to acknowledge this), unsteady on his feet (but refused to accept this), going blind, needed help to cut his food, and suffered from vascular dementia ( which took some time to diagnose due to his bad temper, verbal abuse and mood swings. He finally was admitted to hospital in September 2014 with heart failure, (owing to a shortage of beds in acute cardiac presure was put on me to take him home after 3 weeks of bedside vigils. He was shouting and keeping other patients awake). I refused so he got sent to respite in a geriatric wing of a hospital. After 6 weeks they to wanted ride of him and pressured me to take him home. Again I refused. They tried to place him in a care home. Eventually he was diagnosed as needing EMI care and sent to an specialist unit of a care home. The authorities then pressured me into completing a lengthy financial assessment regarding his savings etc.. This took weeks of my time and much research. Finally I thought it would end .....

Not so I have since been forced to care for my schizophernic mother. A women with no capability for empathy and even more selfish than my narcistic father. The mental health authorities don't want to know. My brother and his new religious mistress ( who live in Australia ) send my mother religious pamphlets and post cards of wonderful outings they have been on. My brother phones and tells them how much he loves them. I have not heard from him in 4 years (when he and his last girlfriend stayed with me in Ireland). I am now so angry with my situation that I could explode inside. The outer family don't want to know.

I realise now what a fool I have been.
A schizophernic mother and a narcistic father are such a toxic mix and to heavy to carry through life. My children hate old people and will have nothing to do with them. This is the only relationship that sticks like a deadly virus to anyone with empathy.

You can walk away from your marriage, your children can walk away from you but toxic parents will stick like glue. Warning warning - lose your empathy or pay the absolute price !