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My mom is 66 and recently (about 6 months ago) broke her hip due to a fall. She had a hip replacement, fell again, had to have a second surgery to correct. She physically is moving along just fine from the surgery, but mentally she is suffering.


I apologize if this post doesn't flow right, trying to include as much info as possible.


I convinced her to talk to a (mental) therapist. She has weekly telehealth sessions, though I am not seeing any improvement in her depression. I personally don't have much experience with mental health/therapy so I don't know what I should expect.


She has been depressed for years, prior to the broken hip. Her physical/mental decline started about 15 years ago, and she has just gotten steadily worse. She was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and went out of work on disability in her early 50s (can't remember the exact age). She had always refused anti-depressants and therapy, so there was not much I could do to help her mentally. My dad and I had discussed Baker Act-ing her before (we live in FL), but ultimately never went through with it. She has never been a harm to others, but she would talk suicide frequently and now daily says she wants to die.


My dad and mom are still married, but I know my dad has stayed in the marriage to take care of her because he knew if he didn't that it would become my responsibility and he didn't want to do that to me. Their marriage is name only at this point - my dad is her caretaker and that's really the only relationship they have. My dad still works and can retire but hasn't because he doesn't want to be around her all day every day.


She has syncope due to chronic low blood pressure. She stopped driving years ago because of that, so my dad has basically been her chauffeur for years.


My mom and dad would go to their community pool for exercise almost daily, and my mom had some friends there that she socialized with. She was cleared to go back to the pool several weeks ago but refuses to go. Several of her pool friends have wanted to visit but she told them she was "in too much pain". While I'm sure she is in pain, I know she is isolating herself due to depression.


She is not completely dependent. She can bathe, use bathroom, and cook for herself. She does her own laundry sometimes, but just clothes. But she cannot (or will not) clean (my dad does that, even her bathroom). She has gotten so weak over the years that she can't lift very many things anymore. It's gotten so bad that she uses plastic utensils instead of metal because the metal is "too heavy". I tried to tell her that she has to lift the heavy things or she's going to lose all her muscle mass.


What's sad is that she used to be super fit. She basically did a triathlon every day (run, bike, swim). She used to lift weights too - I remember her challenging my brother's friends to arm wrestling matches.


Right now she is the worst she's ever been mentally. We are seriously considering transitioning her to an ALF. My dad wants to live the rest of his life in peace, and I do not want to take on the responsibility of someone who has repeatedly refused help and refuses to take care of herself.


I'm not sure what I'm asking for here... Maybe some advice? Has anyone experienced something similar and with a relatively "young" parent?

Your mom is just a bit older than I am.

I would HATE that either of my daughters would be doing the heavy lifting of decision making.

This is too much to take on. The decision needs to be in your Dad’s hands alone.

Please hear me. You are too young to take on this weight.

Counseling or a group like Al-Anon would help you to figure out what is yours to take on, and what isn’t.

Maybe you have a husband children of your own. Maybe a career. THOSE are the things that you are responsible for.

Let this decision go.

I wish you every blessing. I’m sorry for what’s happening with your Mom.
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Reply to cxmoody
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I have read your post several times and don't see where you say what is the root cause of your Mom's low pressure... because there should be one that is diagnosed. Which means it can be treated. Has your Mom's doctor ever pursued the cause of her hypotension? IMO, treating this is more important than her depression, as one is exacerbating the other. If she hasn't gotten an answer about the cause, she should go to a different doctor.

Besides her low blood pressure mystery, in researching this condition I don't see anything about it impacting her bone quality, so I'm also trying to wrap my head around how a formally fit 66- yr old woman can break her hip like a 86-year old...

Again, she needs to work with a doctor to find out why she has low blood pressure so it can be treated.
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pineapple321 Apr 26, 2024
They have not discovered the root cause of hypotension. During her most recent hospital stay, they ran the gamut of tests to determine why she was passing out and narrowed it down to hypotension, but they weren't able to discover why. I suspect it's a nutrition issue, as she eats like a rabbit. She historically has been very weight conscious so eats salads for every day and rarely consumes all of the protein. I've tried to steer her away from salads and to eat more whole foods and protein but I don't live with her and she always resorts back to what she knows.

She did have a bone scan in the hospital, I don't know the exact results but she did tell me she had some bone density loss. She cracked the ball of her femur - hip replacement was the only option. I agree, very strange that someone her age would need a hip replacement due to a fall.
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It’s your dads decision.
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Reply to PeggySue2020
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Your Mother has some diagnosed health conditions. She has had recent hip surgery, has rehabbed her hip but is far from thriving. In fact, it seems she has been losing her health in various ways from her early 50s. I am sorry to hear it.

Your Mother retired from paid work very early, has chosen what ADLs to keep, which to discard. Has refused medication treatment options for mood/mental health but is partaking in therapy sessions - which is positive.

Your Father has his own reasons, values to stay in his marriage & become her carer. It's wise to see it that way. He choose, still chooses.

It is very hard to insist someone seek treatment if they do not see the need or do not wish to. I have seen this firsthand in my family.

I think the danger here (especially for an empathetic daughter) is taking on responsibility that is not yours. Yes it is family, but there are still boundaries.

If Father wants Mother to move into AL, HE needs to make that happen. Not be a victim & shirk that into his daughter.

Similarily, a daughter can resist the urge to swoop in to be his Rescuer.

A councellor with a good understanding of mental health, like an Al-Anon but for mental health may be able to talk through these issues with you. Be a professional & make more sense than my layman scribblings!!
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pineapple321 Apr 26, 2024
So my dad is definitely not shirking any responsibility on me or trying to be a victim. He's a very stoic man and doesn't really ask for help, he always has been and still is a provider. We had briefly discussed AL before, but I was the one that brought it up recently after he expressed his sheer mental/physical/spiritual exhaustion in his situation. You are correct in that I suppose I'm trying to swoop in and be his rescuer. I just want him to be happy, and he hasn't been for a long time. I would rather take on the responsibility of my mother than see my dad in an early grave. He has health issues as well and has put off some elective surgeries due to mom's health.
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Depression sufferer here, now just a few years younger than your mother. I survived a suicide attempt in college. Never wanted to go on anti-depressants but finally did, and they changed my life. Anti-depressants get a bad rap, but I wouldn't be here today without them and therapy. They enabled me to work, retire, and have a full life. Tried the therapy for a long time w/o them, but it didn't help much. It can take some trial and error to get the right med or combination.

I am so thankful people did not give up on me. Reconsider Baker-acting her if she threatens suicide. Being in a psych hospital would give her the chance to get meds right. Yes, she might hate you and your Dad for doing it, but what if it helps?

You won't know until you try. In her current depressed state, it is unlikely for her to heal from her physical problems.
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pineapple321 Apr 26, 2024
What made you decide to try anti-depressants after previously not wanting them? And more importantly, what made you stay on them?

My mom has "tried" them before and either miraculously had every side effect (according to her) or she stopped taking them when they started working and she thought she could do it on her own without them.

I'm glad you got the help you needed and are able to living a fulfilling life. It just makes me incredibly sad to see how she is, knowing the woman she used to be. I accept she may never get back to who she was before, but some semblance of a new normal would be great. I think of it like the Japanese Kintsugi - once broken but repaired and whole.
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Without diagnosis she will not be accepted in any sort of care.
I absolutely agree with Beatty here that your mother is undiagnosed.
She has mental, and perhaps physical issues that need diagnosis and treatment.
She has gone from a normal active working lifestyle to almost total dependency and unhappiness--indeed she is barely functioning mentally and physically.

This, severe as it is in a relatively young person, requires the intervention of medical assessment and mental health workup.
There would be nothing a world wide Forum of untrained strangers, who haven't met your family could do but guess at the cause of this profound change.

It's time to get your mother the mental and physical evaluation she needs. She requires a complete physical and mental workup, including brain scans.

I would consult with an attorney to find out what can be done in your state to get this done.
I would also call adult protective services for a wellness visit and options.
Your Mom has refused help. It's time to decide whether at least assessment of some kind can be required of her and accomplished with or without her permission.

I will suggest a book to you called Never Simple. It's a memoir by Liz Scheier about there mother's mental illness which she had lifelong, and about Ms. S. who in her adult lifetime over many decades sought to help her mother. She had the help of the social services of the city and state of New York. ALL TO NO AVAIL.
The mother was often homeless. She lived long. She never recovered in any way. I tell you this to warn you that not everything can be fixed. And to tell you that at least in Ms. Scheier's Mom's case there WAS somewhat a diagnosis of mental illness. In your own mom's case we do not know but that something physical (early onset dementia? thyroid illness? brain tumor?) is being missed, the discovery of which could include cure.

Please seek help to get your mother into diagnosis, no matter WHAT DIRE STEPS need be done to accomplish this. No one here could conceivably has a CLUE as to what is happening with her.
Do know that you may not be able to get her into help and may be unable to get conservatorship to help her. The law considers mental illness to be a "right" at this time in many cases, even when a person is too ill to care for themselves. While dementia can get guardianship, mental illness often cannot, sad as that is; this is a warning that not everything can be fixed. This is the reason our streets are full of abandoned, mentally ill people. Family members cannot help them, cannot live with them, and eventually move on to leave them abandoned. I think it's a national tragedy.
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Reply to AlvaDeer
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I'm so sorry for you and your family's situation. I, too, suffer from lifelong depression. You said, "I would rather take on the responsibility of my mother than see my dad in an early grave." I don't mean to sound harsh, but at 66 your mother could live another 20-30 years. YOU will end up being the one in an early grave if you take this on. We can only pray that you mom will accept outside help if the telehealth is not working.
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pineapple321 Apr 26, 2024
Well, this is why I am considering an Independent Living facility. I don't think she's at the point of Assisted Living. She really only needs a housekeeper. I think the community would be great for her - she has struggled socially for years because she stopped going out in the world. If the community is right outside her doorstep, I'm hopeful she'll make some friends and do activities.
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I would saybthe low B/P has something to do with this. When My Mom was in the hospital and in pain they upped her B/P meds from 80 mg to 160. After her surgery, the pain was gone. At discharge they said to still give her 180 mg. I questioned it because shevhad no pain. Once home, my Mom could not sit up or stay awake. The in home nurse said her B/P was too low, called her PCP and had meds lowered to 80mg. Mom got back to normal.

Not saying the low B/P is the cause of Moms problems. She needs help and maybe baker acting her is that help.
Assisted living is private pay. Does Dad have that kind of money? Moms only 66.
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Geaton777 Apr 26, 2024
I agree that improving her BP will have a "trickle up" effect on her wellbeing overall. I did not read in any online sources that the origins of one's chronically low BP sometimes remains a mystery -- it seems it can always be determined with the right testing, and therefore will lead to appropriate treatment.
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I think she is past IL. Light housekeeping once a week with laundry. It is difficult to find a room steps from the dining area which she will have to get to by herself and on time. She may only find a room way down the hall or on the 3rd floor. Also with her personality is she willing to hang around in the common areas to enjoy the other residents or just stay in her apartments?
With AL she will get some assignments with ADLs and the same amount of housekeeping, laundry and meals. The plastic warehouse is concerning because both will not provide feeding.
As far as syncope, someone will be calling family with each incidence. The grey area will be if they just call family or call 911. The frequency might trigger a notice to move her to a higher level.

It is best that you visit each type. The marketing person will ask you about those issues. Before you get the tour so as not to waste your time, ask those questions up front.
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Anorexia? Yes I know it's usually the too thin 13yo girls people think of. The not ready for puberty, so stop eating in protest. Or the un-dx Asperger girls (or boys) with scensory issues surrounding food texture & smells. Or un-dx social anxiety.

I have met elderly people dx with anorexic & other elders un-dx showing similar behaviour. Eat only salads & skinless fish or chicken. Maybe vegetables but fussy, prefer less carb type, no potatoes etc. Skip meals. Some overuse laxatives. In care, the tricky ones hide their food in napkins or back in the soup bowl & replace the lid in so it appears they ate.

The gut-brain link is a facinating area under much research these days.

Feel poorly = cannot eat well = malnutrition = poorer health outcomes in physical/mental health.

Or is it the other way around?
Mental health effecting metabolism &/or absorption of nutrients?

Another thought: Have intolerences been ruled out? Lactose? Gluten?
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pineapple321 Apr 27, 2024
Interesting thought about the anorexia... She has always been super weight conscious, I even remember this as a child. Back then she was able eat relatively normal and offset with (over-) exercising. She was never "fat". She has gained a little bit of weight since the hip surgery and now she's obsessing over her weight again. She gained probably 20 lbs, up from her severe underweight of 90 lbs (she's 5' 7") so she's probably at a relatively normal weight now, or at least on the higher end of being underweight. She definitely does have an eating disorder, but obviously undiagnosed. She also has GERD so she has removed many more foods from her diet (not that she really ate a variety before).

When she was in the hospital, they couldn't give her pain meds due to low BP, and then she refused to eat because of the pain, and it was really just a never ending cycle.

She doesn't drink milk or really anything lactose-based, but I know she doesn't have any lactose issues. No gluten issues. She's gotten all the allergy tests and was going to a gastro doctor before the hip replacement.

There are so many issues that she brushed under the rug when she was mostly okay and functioning adult, and now I guess the house of cards is crumbling. I remember her saying to me that her mistake was that she stopped moving when it started to hurt (this was years ago when the fibromyalgia started).
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I really feel for you and can identify with some of the issues and dynamics in your situation. I can fully understand how you want to help your parents and relieve your dad. But I urge you to think of yourself here also. You are likely in your 30s or 40s and deserve your own life and happiness. Job, friends, travel, hobbies, family of your own.

Maybe an involuntary hospitalization will help your mom will get a lot straightened out for her. Maybe IL for her will be a godsend for them both. It’s also possible that each will help only somewhat or not much. And it’s a lot on you. If you go through with either or both, and the results are less than what you had hoped, will you then feel responsible/ guilty for intervening? Like “I convinced them to do XYZ and they are no happier but there is now no going back. It’s my fault it didn’t work.” I have found myself in this mental place at times. Or will you feel peace and “I did everything I reasonably could. I am not responsible for her situation or his choices.” It’s hard!

Good Luck and best wishes!!

i dont think you mentioned any siblings. I agree that your dad needs to be completely on board with any plans but you can do the research and suggestions and help him implement.
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pineapple321 Apr 27, 2024
I don't think I'd feel guilty; I know I'm making the best decision I can with a crappy situationI. I think my regrets (I don't really feel guilty) now stem from not doing something about her mental state earlier, and always hoping she'd get better on her own. Of course I've begged her to get help in the past but it was always "I can do it on my own". I do wish I had pursued the Baker Act 10 years ago.

I really do think a retirement home (whether IL or AL) would be best for her. She used to be a very social person, so I think having that community will really help. There are several in the area and one is directly across the street from the park she loves going to, so I'm leaning towards that one.

I have two brothers. My older brother isn't much help and the "help" he gives, you wish you didn't even ask in the first place. My younger brother is helpful, but he's not much of a "take charge" person. He's always very emotionally supportive; he would bring her to church every Sunday and bring her to other church events. But she refuses to go now - she says being in the car hurts too much.
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Sounds Like My Mom . Her second Husband abandoned her after 20 years . She Had to move back to Cape Cod and My Father and Aunt ended up supporting her . She could Not hack being a Nurse at 55 . Multiple operations - Hips and Knees . She started sleeping frequently and did Not do her Physical therapy . Her diet was Poor - bagels with sprouts, Potato chips and beer . She Had a Major heart attack and a pace maker eventually . My Brother died suddenly at 42 and she was never the same . The Hoarding began . I Moved her into a senior apartment complex and got her a HUD Voucher . She was 64 / 65 . Eventually she made friends but those people died . 2011 - I Came home to Cape Cod - I Noticed she did Not Know I was in the room and was acting funny . Starting in 2012 she was in Spaulding Rehab for most of the summer - Her cat died ..... 2013 she did Not want me coming Over and when she answered the phone she was sleeping . Mom had a Xanax problem . She was in 2 Nursing homes/ rehabs the summer of 2014 . The apartment complex made her move the fire department condemned her apartment and she was Moved into a disabled apartment . The stories began Like seeing Elvis and then the Multiple Falls and hospitalizations . I Did not Know what Dementia was she got down to 93 Pounds. Point of the story - You Can Lead a Horse to water but you can't Make them drink .
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pineapple321 Apr 27, 2024
I'm so sorry, that's a terrible thing to live through. I actually have been saying that to myself and my family a lot lately - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. That, and "you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves". I always hope something would sink in, but it never does.
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pineapple321: Perhaps your mother needs an in office psych evaluation.
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Reply to Llamalover47
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Have you discussed this with your father? He would probably be the one to help her make the decision on what kind of care she needs. If your father does not want to do all of the caregiving or cannot do it, for your mother, perhaps he can hire an aide to come in for a few hours every day. They can take her to appointments, shopping, get her hair done, etc. They can also do light cooking and housekeeping. You are correct that 66 is a young age to have to think about this. Her depression seems to be preventing her from taking care of herself and trying to get better. It becomes a vicious circle - if she doesn't exercise, she will feel more depressed. And if she is depressed, she won't want to do anything to help herself. If they will have aides coming in the house, it's recommended to lock up their valuables and financial papers. All the best to you and your family, and a big hug.
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Reply to NancyIS
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My heart goes out to you and especially your dad! I understand how incredibly frustrating it is to have your spouse refuse to help themselves. It’s a miserable existence.
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I understand what you are going through. 65 year old here. Since my divorce almost 20 years ago, I've lived with one daughter, then moved to live with my youngest daughter. Not because I wasn't physically independent, but because I was mentally disabled with Depression and CPTSD (Complex PTSD). I took antidepressants, anti-nightmare meds, and meds for schizophrenia. I told my psychiatrist that I always saw spirits (my family comes from a very spiritual background), and he decided that I needed Risperidone which is for schizophrenia. I knew he misunderstood, but I took it anyways in hopes that I would heal from my mental status. I was and am still working full time and I had to stop taking the anti-nightmare and risperidone meds because I felt like a zombie all day and was getting confused and disoriented.
Anyways, long story short, I started seeing a therapist who specialized in PTSD after seeing many counselors for depression only; and it turned out to be the best thing ever for me. After a year of therapy, I felt ready to venture out on my own as an independent woman. I just moved into an independent senior apt a month ago and I love it! I'm trying to meet my neighbors, but right now, it's been a little difficult because I work remotely from home all day. But I do meet people and they are just so nice and friendly. I have never lived alone in my life so this is a big improvement on my condition. I also have osteoarthritis, need knee replacements, about to have cataract surgery, and I have a cane and walker for when my arthritis is pretty hard to handle. I don't use pain killers but the antidepressant I use is also used on people with fibromyalgia, so it helps with the pain.
My children call or check on me once in a while and it feels good to know they care enough to do so. I hope my story will help you make the decisions you need to make. I agree with everyone else that it should not have to be your responsibility (even though it's my ancestors' belief) because you have your own life and situations to deal with. I understand that of my own kids. Don't feel guilty or feel that it's your responsibility. If you dad stays with her because he wants to care for her, I'm sure he still loves her enough to do so. Just be there for her, visit her, and listen to her with judgment. Good luck with your dear mother.
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pineapple321 Jul 9, 2024
It was never a feeling of guilt or obligation, but rather "if I don't then who will".

But anyway, I just posted an update. She is doing very well right now, but I will certainly look into a therapist specializing in PTSD. She has even said that the fall was a traumatic event for her.
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Me again! I meant on my last sentence to listen to your mother WITHOUT judgment.
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Almost the same story as my wife. After she returned home after the second break. It was a slow decline. I did everything I could to get her to recover but it was if she just gave up. Nothing could be done but to make her comfortable until the end. No matter how much you want to help recovery is only within the patient
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I am older than your Mom, and 10 days out from hip replacement. I am moving overseas this summer and can't wait to get back to scuba diving. The difference is that your mom wants to die, not live. If she won't take meds, participate in therapy and eat healthy (she is anorexic) she will die. Get her admitted and diagnosed. Don't worry about placement; that is for when she will have a life and needs support to live it.
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The Assisted Living Facility doesn't check up on you, so if you think there will be support there I think you need to consider something else. If they do an evaluation on her and she is as depressed as you say, she won't be accepted there. She needs a mental health check up to see where if any place she could go. Maybe consider a caregiver come to the house a couple times a week to help you with her.
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Reply to Newtothis54
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Don’t take this the wrong way: stay out of it.

You have no part of fixing or moving your mother.

You are way out in left field if you think you can force move a 66 year old woman into a senior living facility.

Speaking from experience, you need to find a good therapist because you seem codependent and enmeshed. It also sounds like you need to read up on fibromyalgia.

The rest of your father’s life is for him, a fully formed grown adult, to figure out.

Please find something more constructive to focus your energies on.
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pineapple321 Jul 9, 2024
You know, I just went through your post history and your answers are not helpful at all. If you don't want to help, just don't reply to anyone's posts. You can say "don't take this the wrong way" all you want, but your response is abrasive, combative, and unhelpful.
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Just an update! I convinced mom to go to a psychiatrist and drove her there myself (she wanted to do a telehealth visit). She refused anti-depressants, but agreed to a mood stabilizer. The doc also prescribed her Suboxone off-label for pain management. Within a few days, she was like a whole different person. She's been doing very well and slowly regaining her independence and optimism. She is going to the pool again almost daily, she's working on her physical therapy, and she started going to church again with my brother. I've been pretty hands-off since the psychiatric appointment. It really is wild what depression can do to a person.
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funkygrandma59 Jul 9, 2024
Glad your mom is doing better and living and enjoying her life again. I hope you understand though that it was the anesthesia that your mom had with both hip surgeries that caused her dementia type symptoms, as that is so very common with folks over 60.
Sadly most doctors don't share that with their patients until they start exhibiting dementia symptoms and wonder why.
I'm glad she has found medication that helps her depression as well.
Now go and live and enjoy your life. Your mom is a young woman and has a lot of years ahead of her.
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