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My Dad is 80 and lives on his own. He was my Mom's primary caregiver until hospice came in 4 months before her passing two years ago. He suffered two small strokes a couple years ago after she passed. He recovered fairly well from the strokes but last month was hospitalized with kidney failure (probably due to dehydration). We live about a half hour away…we have cameras in his apartment and also check on him regularly with daily phone calls which is how we knew he wasn’t doing well and called the ambulance for him. (I am his only child and family close by… he calls me his guardian angel.) His kidney function improved but we found out he has a mass on his right kidney which he will have an MRI on in a few weeks. Dad has additional issues such as uncontrolled Diabetes, spinal stenosis, and neuropathy. He also has age-related memory loss, which is progressively getting worse… over the last few months he got lost coming to my house once (where I’ve lived over 20 years), and has had asked me for directions to his pharmacy and bank a couple of times. He also forgets to check his blood glucose and to take his his meds on a regular basis even with me calling him to remind him. (He just started insulin a month ago.)



A few weeks ago, Dad’s neurologist stated to him, and me, that with so much stuff going on it is ‘probably time for him to stop driving’ … but Dad feels like he’s fine. I took his car to my home when he was hospitalized. He was ok with me keeping it when he was hospitalized, but recently is becoming more upset and angry with me, insisting that he wants it back. It’s killing me thats he’s so upset.
I remind him of his health issues and reassure him that whenever he wants to go someplace, me or my husband will take him but he just wants his independence to go out when he wants. He lives in the middle of his town and could walk to many places (with his cane)... church, restaurants, pharmacy are within 1-3 blocks … but he can be unsteady at times and walking long distances can take a lot out of him. We already drive him to all his Dr appointments and bring him to our house for dinner when he’s feeling up to it. I am his POA. After many late fees, I handle his finances. I do his laundry, I fill his med box, he has a cleaning lady 2 times a month and we now have meals on wheels delivering lunch and dinner to him and are working on getting church volunteers to stop by his place to help with medication reminders. He’s grateful for all we do for him, and I can imagine how frustrating it is for him to be losing so much of his independence. Honestly I believe he needs to be in assisted living, but he refuses to leave his apartment. We are doing everything we can so he can stay there, but not having his car has caused him to become so very angry with me to the point where he hung up the phone on me tonight and said he’d be better off dead. This crushed my heart…….I know I shouldn’t, but I am second guessing if he should have his car back. Is there anything I could say or do to get him to react reasonably and reassure him?

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The neurologist feels he should stop driving, so he should stop driving.
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First I must correct you when you say that your dad has "age related memory loss which is getting progressively getting worse." It sounds more like your dad has some form of Alzheimer's/dementia, and his neurologist should be testing/checking him for that.
And anyone with any kind of mental decline should not be allowed to drive as they not only put themselves at risk , bit others as well. And because it's known that his mental facilities are declining if God forbid an accident were to happen, he could be sued and lose all he has. It's just not worth the risk.
Just keep telling him that his doctor said he could no longer drive, and that you're sorry but you must listen to the doctor, and that you understand that it's hard on him not to be able to drive anymore, but that you will be there to take him places when he needs to go.
Hopefully in time he will realize that it's for his best, and honestly with his mental decline he will most likely forget it sooner than later anyway, as with all of the dementias, things only continue to get worse.
I wish you and your dad the best.
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Di27813 Apr 2022
I used the neurologist’s words when I said Dad has ‘age related memory loss’. Dad also started to show more memory issues after his strokes. The Neurologist has done some testing and Dad has passed part of the tests … he’s great at the math questions and dates, he doesn’t do well with remembering the part when asked to remember three words. He also forgot the name of the current President, but remembered when prompted.
…it is sad, but as time goes on I can see things getting worse so I understand that things won’t be getting better. I will continue to reassure him the best we can.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me.
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I am sorry that the doctor was so vague and nebulous; it doesn't help your Dad one little bit.
At 83 it was a serious accident that let my brother know he couldn't drive. He lay bleeding in the arms of a neighbor saying "I knew something was wrong" over and over.
You need to sit with your father and honestly discuss this. My partner is 82 and well capable of driving. But if you suspect, if a DOCTOR suspects that your father should give up his license then he likely should. I would sit with my father and repeat the doctor's words, then tell him that you cannot make the decision for him, but feel he shouldn't be driving. If he says he is fine then ask him to allow the DMV to make that decision and you will support him. Tell him to go with you to DMV and request a written and driving exam. If he passes, then he passes; that's the best you can do.
If all is said and done and your father refuses, then tell him that you are doing your best to support his decisions, but as his decision making is less and less good in your own estimation you will be removing your support more and more. He is not only risking his well-being, but that of innocents in the streets.
I wish you the very best. At some point your doing more and more will "enable" bad decision making for Dad. That's the sad truth. I hope he will begin to consider a move to ALF. A hard decision to be certain, one that may eventually be inevitable.
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Geaton777 Apr 2022
I'm not sure one can dictate what test the DMV administers to someone else... he has to be reported as a dangerous driver first through their system. I personally would not give him any hope to recover his privilege. On this forum I've read where a elder parent was taken to the test...and passed, much to the dismay of the OP.
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My 90+ yr old uncle should have had his car taken away but he drove through a red light and was t-boned, killing his 2x cancer surviving wife and their dog. He was ok and the other victims were (thankfully) not seriously injured.

No one needs to wait for any doctor to make the call on ending the driving. The tricky part is how to do it. Your dad's anger is not rational so try not to take it too personally (and think about how you are keeping him and others safe). What I did with my LO is preemptively arrange for regular rides so she could run errands. I enlisted local and trusted family, friends, neighbors, church acquaintences and had them call her up to offer rides to the grocery store, mall, etc. I secretly gave these volunteers gift cards to my LO's favorite restaurants so they could also take her out for a meal. She enjoyed the company more than losing the driving privilege.

Your Dad will adjust to the new normal eventually, if his dementia allows it. Make sure other people in his network know to never lend him a car for any reason. Just sell it and stop paying the insurance (I'm sure his rates must be sky-high!) You don't have to engage the argument if he brings it up. Tell him "It's just not an option Dad," Then change the subject.

Make sure to report him to the DMV online as a dangerous driver. They will mail him a letter telling him to come in for testing. No one should take him to this test, just let his license expire so that he no longer has a valid one. I wish you much success in getting over this hump.
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Di27813 Apr 2022
Thank you for your thoughtful response.
I hope to avoid the tragedy your family felt … am so very sorry to hear what happened. I understand how my Dad must feel but his safety and the safety of others is a top priority. We will continue to help him understand and to support him as best we can.
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"Doctor's orders, Dad. It's out of my hands.

"So, how was your day today?"

The less you discuss it, the better. Spend your brain cells on constructive things like researching senior transportation options.
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Hello all. My first post after reading for some time and benefiting from your good advice. I am at the point of helping my father transition from independent living to AL. The transition has not been painless. Dad is nearing 90 and is deaf as a post. His hearing aid stays in a box in the counter. He should not be driving for the hearing factor alone but when the subject is broached his response ranges from "you could be right" to "how am I supposed to get anywhere?." We live in neighboring states and he's seriously considering choosing AL in his state so he can keep his drivers license and not be tested again. I hopefully planted two seeds by suggesting he be tested by the agency near us that provides drivers training and testing for the elderly and special needs populations. I also pointed out that he might consider an umbrella policy for his car insurance because if he makes a mistake and hurts someone he puts himself at risk for losing all he has worked for including money that will provide for his care in a lawsuit. For me it's more about him hurting someone else and himself but I know my audience. That one has him thinking. I'm hoping he will come to a conclusion on his own but it could go either way.
L
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I don't know if you've already looked this up:

https://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=taxis&find_loc=Poughkeepsie%2C+NY

The "Best 10 Taxis" in your area, it claims.

If your father is among those people who look on taxis as an extravagance to equal caviar for breakfast and owning a racehorse, remind him that what he saves on fuel, car maintenance, insurance, parking fees etc etc will buy him an awful lot of cab rides - and indefinite independence without the worry and responsibility.

It's actually the getting lost on familiar routes that's the Big Red Flag. Sadly, it is sometimes followed by the driver reversing at speed into a brick wall and having absolutely no idea how that happened, either.
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"I remind him of his health issues and reassure him that whenever he wants to go someplace, me or my husband will take him but he just wants his independence to go out when he wants. He lives in the middle of his town and could walk to many places (with his cane)... church, restaurants, pharmacy are within 1-3 blocks … but he can be unsteady at times and walking long distances can take a lot out of him. We already drive him to all his Dr appointments and bring him to our house for dinner when he’s feeling up to it. I am his POA. After many late fees, I handle his finances. I do his laundry, I fill his med box, he has a cleaning lady 2 times a month and we now have meals on wheels delivering lunch and dinner to him and are working on getting church volunteers to stop by his place to help with medication reminders. "

That's a lot that you do for him now, and you live 30 minutes away. Be careful about promising to take him wherever he wants, whenever he wants. It sounds like he really needs a more supportive living situation (and I do NOT mean moving in with you!).
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SAFETY. You love him dearly and wish to maintain his environment in as peaceful a way as possible.

But you are also aware that his abilities are diminishing day by day, and no one has a timetable for when things cross the line and cause larger problems for him or others in his surroundings.

When an elderly person with previous neurological problems “refuses”, WE as loving caregivers HAVE to opt for SAFETY FIRST.

As just one example of his need for more support, you mention that he has “uncontrolled diabetes”, and hasn’t been able to get the hang of managing his insulin. Since insulin management can have a major impact on emotional/cognitive performance, can you consider that he is doing himself NO FAVORS by refusing to play by your rules?

He’s depressed, and no reason why he shouldn’t be. But as heart wrenching as that is for you, you must step away from being “loving daughter” and take on the role of “objective life manager”.

And painful that WILL BE, but with love and concern you can both emerge as loving participants in his continuing life.

TODAY, look up ALs in your area and see if any seem appealing to you. When you have time, do a drive by.

This is a time when you’ll need to put aside your natural empathy, and need to develop a very objective strength.

Many of us have had to do that, and ultimately have done it.
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Losing the ability to drive is very hard but needs to be done for the safety of your dad and others. My husband is 82 (20 years my senior) and the decision to not drive was after a minor accident. Yes, it’s been difficult for BOTH of us but necessary for both physical and financial security. It’s difficult. Best of luck to you.
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Do not give the car back, for fear of a silver alert having to be issued… Heaven forbid he cause an accident that would harm him and or others.

When I place my mom she would have hit me physically if she could have mustard the strength. It’s terrible lie I had to tell her. She was convinced her car would be parked in the AL parking lot. If I had told her differently she would not have moved. She made a terrible scene.. so be it…
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Yes you are doing the right thing. It’s for his safety and for the others he could potentially harm or kill. He’ll be angry but alive.
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Our mother was driving until her later 80s but then had two accidents and was diagnosed with vascular dementia. We were worried she would hurt herself or someone else next time. She would not give up the car so I called the provincial government, told them of our concerns, and they sent her a letter demanding that she get a doctor's letter or her license would be revoked. The doctor refused to sign and my brother took away her car.
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Doctors Orders, sorry Dad, we must adhere to them.

Of course you are doing the right thing, he is getting behind the wheel of a 2 ton vessel and could easily kill himself or someone else.

Might be time for AL, he will not need a car there.
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You are doing the right thing, keep the car. Yes, loosing the independence of driving is horrifying to most seniors but it is NOT only his safety, but the safety of others! When a neurologist says it is time to give up driving, that is a huge red flag as many doctors will NOT say such things until it is absolutely very very apparent from a medical standpoint the senior is no long capable of handling driving safely.

Just last week in our community, a 80+ senior lost control of his car while pulling out of the townhouse parking lot area (only going about 5 miles per hour) but he lost control of the vehicle and sadly mowed down a father who was at the corner with his 7 year old son and 3 year old in a stroller; they were waiting for the school bus. The 7 year old was killed on the spot. In another incident on March 12th this year, in Washington DC -- just 20 mins away -- another 80+ senior lost control of his car (mistook the gas peddle for the break). He sped up so fast the car jumped the curb and landed at a outside restaurant on top of several tables filled with people having lunch outside. Two older women were killed instantly and several others critically injured: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/women-73-76-ided-as-victims-after-suv-crashes-into-outdoor-dining-area-in-dc/2997560/

I cannot imagine what these families are going through; the death of a 7 year old child (father and 3-YO brother injured), the husbands/kids of the two older women killed just while having lunch together on a nice spring day, the others hurt critically OR the drivers themselves and THEIR families for NOT knowing when it is time to stop driving, when it is time to insist that elderly parents stop driving. Or time to have a physician make a report (they can do this) to local authorities.

Yes, it may be time for assistive living or nursing home care especially if dementia (sounds like it from your description) is party of the equation. And dementia or "mild cognitive impairment" if that is the case; may also be impacting his judgment to understand it is time to stop driving as well as it may be time for some type of senior living arrangement.

Just like your mom and dad had to do what was needed, do what was right for you you were growing up and to not be concerned with the fact that you might get mad at them; now the roles are switching. This is one of the hardest things to do, to "parent our parents" and accept they may become angry or downright hostile towards us. But you cannot let your fear of him being angry at you for YOU to NOT do what is required for him and OTHERS to be safe. Tell him, his doctor told you both it was time to stop driving and you both have to follow doctor's orders.

Perhaps volunteers (some areas have volunteer drivers for seniors), and a combo of Uber/Taxis if that exists where you are; can help.

Good luck. This is not an easy journey.
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doesn't sound like a good idea for him to drive, if he doesn't care about himself and at least care about others on the road
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after my father got “ lost” several states away, we had the police and his doctor notify the DMV to revoke his license. The police politely asked my father to hand me the car keys but dad refused the police. Then the police went behind his back and notified the DMV and finally had his license revoked. It took three months to happen. My fear was that if dad hurt someone or god forbid killed someone, and I being POA, I could be held responsible for not taking away his keys when I KNEW he should not be driving. My father was horribly difficult, and no way would he willingly stop driving ( although my mother said he was driving on wrong side of road one time)
dad passed two weeks before his license was revoked. But if I had to do it over again, I would have stood firmer, and no matter what it took, forbid his driving. I was stupid thinking it was convenient for me to let him keep driving to the pharmacy, etc.
sometimes you have to be the bad guy.
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YES! Return the car, with restrictions though. That car is more than transportation, it is his life. Make the transition soft. Don't take it away. Instead, park it in the usual spot. Put an electronic lock device on the ignition. He can sit in his car. You can drive him around in HIS car, or even be a passenger in his car if you think it is safe, e.g., non-traffic times. You can drive him in HIS car to some of his regular routes. He wants to look outside and see HIS friend. He can still change the oil, wash and polish his car, put his stuff in the glove compartment, check the trunk. Just having ownership is something.

I am aware of the incidents in the DC area (where I also live) outlined below. Yet non-senior drivers also do wreak havoc; driving on unsafe and busy roads is plain risky, with substandard signage, potholes, speeders, lots more. I agree with Sohenc about Uber or a volunteer driver assigned by a seniors program (in the DC area we have Senior Connection). My car was vandalized, so I learned how to Uber, but charges mount up. Uber is easy, convenient; you can add $ into his account. Drivers usually appear within 5 mins here. Free senior driving programs are everywhere. Holding a drivers license is dignified but does not mean he has to actually drive. I was caring for my mom, I could not get to my renewal appt; it's awful, Virtual driving youtubes might fulfill the lost thrill of driving; the technology exists for you to video his regular routes -- not a bad idea as a memory support. Or maybe just take photos of his old haunts for an album to browse.
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We were having the same battle with my step-father. I finally reminded him that he may feel comfortable taking his life in his hands, however how would he, especially as a minister, feel should he hurt of kill someone else because of his stubbornness. He does still drive to the grocery store a few blocks a away, but we take him to all appointments and any place else that is further than that. That also is very time limited. the doctor can send a letter to the DMV and they will revolt his listens. You won’t need to do or say anything.
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I would suggest using the doctor's comments for your refusal to give back the car. And ask the doc to send a letter to the DMV. The doc can also order a test to see if your dad is capable of driving. It is like a physical therapy order for rehabilitation. Trying to reason with someone doesn't always work, especially when their mind is not what it used to be. I tried that too. Using the doctor's authority can be beneficial.
My 60 yo sister with brain cancer refused to stop driving even when she wasn't safe. As I had no authority I couldn't stop her but tried for years (DMV would only accept doctor requests at the time). We were "lucky" that the accident that totalled her car resulted in no injuries for anyone. But I refused to help her buy another car until the doctor said she could drive. Doc ordered the test and it came back as negative for driving.
Never easy, I do understand and wish you the best.
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You’re smart in that you physically took the car. I had a somewhat similar situation except for the ability to walk to places. I must of taken 4 sets of keys. She would hide them every time I came over. New keys just kept showing up. I disconnected the battery and the helpful neighbor came over and repaired it. When the doctors told her it was dangerous for other people if she drove and I suggested financial liability on her end she continued to be adamant that she only drove on Thursdays to get her hair done (same place for 50 years) and the grocery store. The grocery store was less about food and more about cigarettes. That’s another topic but I would go to her house and discretely put chalk marks behind her tires to see if the car moved. The next step would have physically removed the car but I certainly didn’t want it at my house and I couldn’t find the title to sell it as POA. The bottom line is that it’s less about the car itself and more about independence, choices, and control. It will be devastating but your dad’s car needs to physically be taken away or kept away if that’s still the case. He’s going to be extremely angry and will probably punish you through words or lack there of because that is something he can control. I’ve talked to and read a lot about this topic and having the car taken away is a real game changer. Lastly expect some physical decline as I believe that attitude correlates with health conditions. If you want to be practical and or political suggest that with gas at $4.00 a gallon (in Indiana) that nobody is driving when they can get around via other transport methods! Best of luck to you-
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Has dad been declared mentally incompetent and POA authority legally transferred to you?
If not, you can’t just take his car.

So while I agree with you and the neurologist, try another approach. My mom stopped driving and said she went from being a senior to old.
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Don't second guess yourself. It is unsafe for him and others if he remains on the road. It is not about what he wants, but about what is safe and what he needs. He is very lucky you are so close and can help with so many daily needs and doesn't actually need a car.
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I remember attending my first elderly caretaker conference years ago and this was a major topic. The main recommendation was to provide the LO with a list of ride providers prior to taking away their car. As we grow older, I think that the one thing we are most anxious about is maintaining some part of our independence. There are sources for free transportation (from local Senior Citizen Center to/from their facility for daily activities, some Medical Advantage plans will pay for free rides to doctors' appointments). Also you might want to also look into getting a driver to pick up your LO to attend a regularly scheduled event/lunch with their friends. Your local Agency on Aging can provide you contacts for transportation options.
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Yes. I took away my wife’s keys several years ago when she scared the crap out of me going to the eye doctor. The most difficult thing is to sell her car because she believes she will drive again.
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Based on everything you have told us, Dad is no longer safe to drive. Do not bring his car back to him. Set up an Uber or Lyft account for him, so that he can go where he wants when he wants.

Handling the emotional part is the problem. Get a social worker involved to deal with his anger, and let his doctor know. Dad may need medication.

Blame the doctor: once it is in his medical record that he was advised not to drive you can send that information to the department of motor vehicles and have his license suspended or switched to a non-driving ID. It is out of your hands once the licensing authorities are involved. The worst Dad can do is refuse to see that doctor again.

This is all about Dad's safety and long-term wellness. It sounds like the beginning of many conflicts that he is unable to understand. God bless you for your compassion and love for your father, and give you the patience you will need.
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Well, if you continue to let him drive, either he or someone else WILL die, when he gets into an accident.
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HollyDolly May 2022
Exactly. Or he could be severely injured like my father-in-law was, and wreck another person's vehicle on top of totaling his own.
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We had the same situation when my mom turned 80. There is a mandatory drivers test and she failed. I was happy that it was the doctor and license agency that took her license away but it was me she was angry with. I told her all the advantages, she has taxi service on speed dial and can go anywhere she wants, no car maintenance, insurance or gas to pay, but taking away her car was a terrible experience for her. What happened the next year is her PSW suggested she get a mobility scooter, you need to have an assessment for this, but in our case it worked out great. She can zip around go to the library and the bank and the store on her own. you might talk to the care workers to see if this is an option. Granted, she can still run into things and they go pretty fast, but for the most part safe for everyone, and they get a bit of fun and independence back.
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cpell122112 May 2022
Been there done that. i'm in an electric wheelchair. when each of my parents had cancer and needed a scooter to get around, fortunately, i never got rid of my scooter when i got a new chair, that's what they used. we use to chase each other around the house and play hide and seek. when we'd go to a store, they would use a store scooter. they felt as independent as they always did, right up to the end.

good luck,

Colleen P. Pell
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At the risk of sounding blunt, how is it that people can rationalize letting someone with dementia access to a set of car keys? Mom had a heart attack back in January, showing signs of dementia; after testing the neurologist signed off that she is not allowed to leave the house without adult supervision and no more driving. I took her keys away and that was that. She’s bitched, moaned, cursed me out and threatened me that if I don’t give them back she’s calling the police. I offered to dial the phone for her… after many times reminding her that it’s not safe for her or the other motorists if she gets behind the wheel, much like a drunk driver. It sucks, reasoning with someone with dementia is impossible but you need to be the adult in the changing dynamics. Good luck :)
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No, don't second guess. Trust your instincts. My father-in-law should have stopped driving years before he did (he had Alzheimer's before he died in March 2021). It wasn't until he had an accident where he totaled his Explorer, and had a knee injury bad enough to require he rehab in an assisted living home that my husband (an only child) insisted that his mom hide her truck keys. My father-in-law was VERY angry, and there were many explosive arguments between him and my husband. He never gave up talking about buying a new car. The DMV eventually pulled his license. It took a lot to get his stupid doctor to agree he should not drive or assist us in having his license revoked. I understand why you agonize over the choice, but it is necessary. I went through it myself with my mom a few years ago. It is never easy. Eight years later my mom still talks about wanting to get her license back. It's heartbreaking. Stay strong, you're looking out for your dad, and as hard as it is, you have to take care of him like he did you when you were a child, and couldn't make good decisions.
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Debstarr53 May 2022
My mom, who has dementia lost her license years ago, but she still mentions getting her license and getting a car. We just say how nice that would be and change the subject.
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