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Is this normal? I friend of mine who worked in social work says it is not, as the evaluation could change things. One thing if it is refundable, but this is not

thats pretty harsh. From what I have seen COmmunity fee/ deposit tends to be fully refundable prior to eval.
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That’s not right .

We paid the non refundable fee with the first month’s rent on move in day in one AL .

The other AL that another family member was in , asked for it upfront ( to hold the room we wanted ) but it was refundable IF my mother didn’t move in due to the evaluation causing them to deny her admission .
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Karsten Aug 8, 2024
well, I guess that is fair. My concern is that the evaluation may determine the final amount we pay per month for the services they think she needs

What if that ended up being more than say another place?
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NO! I paid a non refundable deposit when I moved my mother into the AL facility, which is normal, but do not pay a non refundable fee for an evaluation!
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Karsten Aug 8, 2024
the fee is not for the evaluation but they want the community fee (what the heck is that for anyway) paid before evaluatioin
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That is not the usual way of doing business, in my admittedly limited experience.

I would ask for clarification from the business office.
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My mother was in two different ALF’s in two different states and I was never asked to pay a non refundable community fee until she had been cleared to move in. I was asked to pay a refundable deposit of $1200 to hold the room while her evaluation was completed. Asking you to pay the non refundable community fee without any guarantee of admission is not the industry standard and, in my opinion, very suspect.
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Thanks all. Now we may have another problem as mom does not want to go to AL and wants to go back to her apartment in Independent living instead. From what I see, legally, short of guardianship, we cannot make her go

Meeting with a state senior agency today to hopefully navigate this
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AlvaDeer Aug 9, 2024
Hope you will update us on how this works for you. If your Mom is competent you will not be able to force this. If she prefers to die at home she may end just doing exactly that, but I will let the agency know that you will NOT support her in remaining in her home, that you consider her at risk, and will not enable it. And then you need NOT to enable it. Ask them if, in your state, a Social Worker is able to get temporary guardianship for you.
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Is her independent living an apt where meals and activities are included? If so, they can evaluate Mom and tell her she needs to now go to an AL because she needs more care than independent living can provide her. Your profile says Mom has a dementia. If so has she been formally diagnosed and determined she is incompetent to make informed decisions? If so, if you have DPOA you can place her. Its not what she wants now, its what she needs.

The Community fee...I think I paid it when I wrote a check for the first months rent when Mom moved in. As said, its for cleaning the room, etc when she leaves.

The evaluation will determine Moms needs and what she pays a month will determine what her care will entail. At Moms, room and board were one price and her care needs were another. Mom was a 4 the highest level. She needed help bathing, dressing, brushing her teeth,getting her down to dinner, toileting, etc. They will periodically re-evaluate your mom and if her needs have increased, so will her care costs.
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Karsten, your mom has two choices:

She can go where SHE thinks is best, but forfeit your help.

She can go where the professionals are advising, with your help.

Make it clear to her that if she chooses the former and she needs more care, she will be in charge of finding it, or paying someone to do so, that you are washing your hands of the situation.
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waytomisery Aug 9, 2024
Yes , this is where we are at too . MIL refuses to get POA drawn up .

We will not help her without it, unless the court or some other authority assigns DH emergency guardianship

I see the wisdom here , let her fail first . It’s the only way to manage this level of stubbornness .
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Couple updates:

In re the non refundable community fee prior to nurse intake evaluation: Turns out this was miscommunicated (I think, could not be possible that I misunderstood)

Anyway, I had to write the check today to get the ball rolling and hold the apartment, but, it only becomes non refundable after my mom begins living there. If something comes up before then, it will be refunded.

As far as my mom unwillingness: Talked to Occupational Therapist at rehab who confirmed she needed to have 7/24 care, which at first I interpreted as someone there in her apartment all the time. What they meant was like at an AL where there is help 24/7. So that confirmed the choice. On cognitive scale she said my mom scored 3.5 on a 5.6 scale, and I have no idea what that means. I asked if my mom should be in memory care. The OT said no, not now. But probably in the future, which I assumed.

Anyway, a social worker from a state agency which helps oversee these transitions among other things, came to talk to my mom. My mom went off saying I (and my brothers) dont care about her and must hate her for wanting to send her to assisted living. The SW had skills I dont have, she was very able to calm my down, and de escalate. She said no, your sons love and care for you and are concerned about your safety .For the first time I saw my mom kind of accept the point

She is still not into it but pointed out her aversion is in part because of the words Assisted Living. She is vain, and ideally would have gotten in one of those places where assisted living and indy living are just mixed, there is no differentiation . But those places were not best for other reasons this time Also talked to a couple cousins who had similar situations They said yes, our parent did not want to go to AL, yes, we knew legally it was their choice but they did it anyway . And parent was angry for a long time but ultimately saw the wisdom

Later talked to admissions director at the AL she is going to, and IL she is at now. She said that is not uncommon, many elders hate the Assisted Living tag.

She also said as someone mentioned here that they would nto have taken her back into IL, with the assessment of the therapy staff at rehab. Although my mom is paid up there through end of /August, so I dont know how they handle that.

She said my mom was on their radar for a while in terms of having to move her, the fall which put her in rehab sort of just hastened the process.

I know I have rambled, but one more thing. My mom says she doesnt need AL as people at IL talk about how fast she is, she like the energizer bunny

The OT said, yes she is very fast, that is part of the problem, she is a fall risk because of that and should not upgrade to a four wheel walker.
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waytomisery Aug 9, 2024
Yes , had the same aversion issue with the AL tag .
They need to come up with a better tag .
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another question related to this issue. I did put the money down, my mom is agreeing to go, now, it appears the AL is dragging their feet a bit, though I may misunderstand, on getting the nurses intake evaluation.

The upshot is she is supposed to leave Wednesday per he Medicare Advantage plan company, but will not be able to go to AL then

The AL director says the rehab place cannot discharge her if the AL is not ready to take her, but what then?

Can she stay there for a couple more days? Who pays? She has not reached the 21 day limit for medicate pay for rehab but was leaving as medicare thought she was ready to leave.

Private pay on that could be spendy.
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