What is the best recourse to take after your Mom has been financially wiped out by your siblings in another state?

I agree with pamstegman totally. I have to protect mothers health AND financial situation since she doesn't seem to know to protect herself. The mother I know would of never gave away money and that is what I am respecting. Ask yourself what your mother would of said say back 20 yrs ago Danna24. I don't see no difference.

The VA, unlike Medicaid doesn't look back five years, they only look at what money is in hand. So the assets are gone if the VA is paying aid and attendance. In another post here, a POA mistakenly paid their parents mortgage utilities and credit cards while waiting for Medicaid approval for a NH. The parent died and the NH sued the POA, because she never sent money to a nursing home. She did not know she had to give them the SS check.
Your brother is in much the same predicament. He did not know the Medicaid rules. He gave stuff away. The law says he is responsible for that. He also hid the remaining assets, or VA would not be paying. So he sends out a letter commonly referred to as a "superthreat" telling you to pay up.
I say let him suffer. Let him pay. You did nothing wrong. He stole more from mom than he gave away, I guarantee that. He's headed for prison.

FYI Mom's homecare is paid by the VA for her, so that is not an expense for her.

Ok.. now I'm thoroughly confused. Frustrated2 is saying I pretty much don't have a snowballs change in h*ll of not having to pay back the gift I was given. My mother has dementia and can be pretty much talked into anything; especially my oldest brother who she feels walks on water. My brother had said he was keeping our Mother until the five year look back had lapsed. Mother has declined rapidly after falling and breaking her hip last October. She has basically resigned herself to sitting in a wheelchair everyday and does little else. This means she won't even attempt to get to a restroom. They have visiting nurses that come in for her 4-5 times a week to do homecare. Because my brother and sister have made themselves invaluable to our Mother; she doesn't want anyone but them coming in the help her should they need to go somewhere. It's as if the other five siblings don't exist as far as our other two siblings are concern. I don't feel I've been left any other recourse, but to obtain an attorney to protect my rights like they have done. Only difference, they have our mothers money to pay their attorney.

Danna24, daughter deb is right, the POA messed up and the courts will hold his feet to the fire. He is personally liable for misappropriation of funds. So have your lawyer send Mr. Smarty Pants a letter telling him you have no intention of bailing him out.

I agree with frustrated2 that a POA can do anything they want except for the "gift" situation or any other reason that keeps a parent out of a nursing home. There is recourse. Any Large sums of money missing from an Elders account is under suspicion by the courts and deems accountability. The courts can get the money back from the POA but the POA can not get it back from Danna24 due to the fact he made the decision with the elders "permission". Let him take it to court and try. He will find himself explaining a lot more.

I hate to tell you, but if the house and contents have been liquidated and sold and all that's left is money, basically, then a POA can most certainly wipe it out. The will is for 'real' property not money. It there is a trust, bank accounts would fall into the trust and any personal items would be in a pour over will. But an POA, who is supposed to act in a person's best interest, if appointed when that person is lucid can do whatever they want. If your mother needs to go into a nursing home, there will be a look back and gifts have to be paid back or a waiting period is in effect. Sounds to me like the siblings who are 'caring' for her have done their homework, whether or not it is fair or right. The best kind of an account to have for her would be a checking account set up as "trustee for the benefit of" your mother with rights of survivorship. That requires all funds, regardless of who can sign be spent for and on her/her welfare. But a POA is a free license given by a trusting person to another and if that person is not trustworthy, there is a problem. POA trumps almost everything when it comes to getting to the money quickly. Doesn't mean you cannot contest it after the fact, but once the horse is out of the barn, good luck catching it!

Danna24 Get an attorney FAST! Go to the nearest court and file for the accounting! POA can not change a Will!! Challenge the POA! You have got my prayers and support.

daughterdeb My brother who is the POA's solution was to take Mom from the nursing home she was in after her rehab from falling and breaking her hip. He said that he was not going to put our mother in a nursing home so that we were not subject to having to return the "gift". When my other sister who is also facing her "gift" having to be return spoke to my sister who is the executress she said that my brother and her were also having to refund the "gift" they received. My brother told me that they were exempt for all the work they had done clearing out our parents property, contents of home and handling the estate auction. So, we are being told two totally different stories. My request for an accounting of Mom's finances have been ignored; however when my other sister asked for the financial accounting she was told that they would get one right out to her. She lives in Texas. As I said, I have no qualms spending money to make sure our mother Is well cared for, but it seems that two of our siblings is hell bent on no one but them receiving anything from our mother's estate. They have gone as far as talking Mom into removing two other brother's from her will. My observation of this move is that less siblings, more money for them to pocket. After my Dad died, my brother the POA said to me, things are now in my hands; I call the shots and if any of you guys don't like it, well tough! That should give you an idea what we're up against. These two siblings are calling the shots and joined at the hip as far covering for each other is concern. My anger comes from them using our Mom's money to pay for the attorney to cover up the mess they have created.

Danna24 Personally I feel if there is a penalty period then the POA needs to deal with it. He made a gift of your mother's money. The audacity that he is asking you to pay it back! I found nothing that says you have to pay it back. The Sibling with the POA is the only one with rights. Be thankful that Medicaid has these laws, now you can get an attorney and request an audit of the Sibling with the POA in answer to his request to pay the "gift" back. Good luck.

Danna24 The penalty period is determined by dividing the amount transferred by what Medicaid determines to be the average private pay cost of a nursing home in your state.

Example: For example, if you live in a state where the average monthly cost of care has been determined to be $5,000, and you give away property worth $100,000, you will be ineligible for benefits for 20 months ($100,000 / $5,000 = 20).

Another way to look at the above example is that for every $5,000 transferred, an applicant would be ineligible for Medicaid nursing home benefits for one month. In theory, there is no limit on the number of months a person can be ineligible.

Example: The period of ineligibility for the transfer of property worth $400,000 would be 80 months ($400,000 / $5,000 = 80).

A person applying for Medicaid must disclose all financial transactions he or she was involved in during a set period of time -- frequently called the "look-back period." The state Medicaid agency then determines whether the Medicaid applicant transferred any assets for less than fair market value during this period. For transfers made prior to enactment of the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 (DRA) on February 8, 2006, state Medicaid officials looked only at transfers made within the 36 months prior to the Medicaid application

Also CHECK TO SEE IF THE POA WAS FILED WITH THE COURTS.

Danna24 I know what you are saying completely. I am glad you posted on here because I came here myself to know what to do and I just got over and over on this blog "I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT IS KEEPING HER OUT OF THE NURSING HOME?" I have never received a Large gift or anything from my mother.
Rule of thumb is don't accept anything from anyone until they die! I do know that you need to get an attorney and CLARIFY that the money was sent you from the POA and know that they can attach your wages. The POA is covering his tail, and you need to get an AUDIT of mother's assets. Hopefully you paid taxes on the large gift. Any money is your mother's and once a POA is in place NEVER is a large withdrawal "a gift".

Wow! If I had some way of knowing that a gifted amount of money from my Mother would have caused me so much stress and anxiety, I would have never accepted it. Out of the blue my Mother opted to give four of her seven children cash gifts in two increments. My oldest brother being her POA talked my mother into giving the four of us named in her will cash gifts. However, when he did this he did not research anything about ramifications if our Mother might need nursing home care before the state statute of five year look back would be enforced. Both he and my oldest sister are executor/ executress of our Mothers estate with our brother having sole control of our Mothers money. After auctioning off our parents home and contents plus adding what she had in her savings; Mother was said to have 500K. She then went to live with our oldest sister in a very large expensive house, because her husband said that this house was all they could find with a master suite and bath on the main floor. Mom is incapable of climbing stairs. My sister and her husband said at that time they wanted nothing from our mother , not one dime, that they loved her and wanted to give her the best possible in her twilight years. Shortly thereafter my sisters husband sent a lengthy letter to our brother who holds the POA demanding rent money and a third of the household expenses for her to return to live with them. They stated that they would have never rented this house had it not been for having to care for our mother. My sister was then given 3K for rent and care of our Mother. They had demanded 8K. To make a very, very long story short, my brother is now calling and telling me and my other sister that the money given to us must be returned in order to place our mother in a nursing home. However, he and our older sister, do not have to return any monies given them, because they contacted an attorney who worked it where that because they handled the auction and clearing of their property and contents of their house. Both of them together, never contacted any of the other five siblings letting them know any of this was happening to assist in helping with these things. They both have shut the rest of us out, talked our Mother into removing two of our siblings totally out of her will. I have asked several times for an accounting of Mom's finances only to be ignored. Both my oldest brother and sister have purchased very expensive items since they have over site of Mom's money. Now we are being told Mom is broke and the monetary gifts have to be returned in order for her to be placed in a nursing home. I don't have the money to return! I don't think it's right for my husband to have to pay to refund this money as it's not his mother! I understand that bottom line is our Mothers well being, but why is it my brother and sister get to pocket thousands after obtaining an attorney, which was paid for out of our mothers money by the way, and we are told our gift has to be returned for her care. Something isn't right here and our Mothers money has been squandered leaving my sister and I scrambling without one thought to where we are supposed to come up with the money to return it to Moms estate. Anyone else ever heard of this situation or been through something simular?

vstefans I was told by the Nursing home that if I can get her in there before the year is out they have recourse on mother's behalf since I don't have POA. Wish I did. With physical help I am fine caring for her, it is just the expenses that her little check does not cover is too much anymore. My doctor is going with the evaluation period at home with physical therapy before she can be placed with a doctor's order and as a hardship case. A reasonable sane person would not go against doctor's order ? Nor do they let a thief break in there home without calling the law? There in lies the POA request : reason financially and physically harmful to oneself. She does understand the penalty period, And she does know I don't want to pay for a nursing home by the day. She does understand the past POA will go to jail if repayment isn't made. I don't blame any NH for laws to protect the Elderly. I agree with everything they told me. Social Security doesn't except POA's it must be a legal guardianship. POA's are not legal unless they are filed in the court room. Then it is converted to a Legal guardianship AFTER the person has been investigated in Ohio. I guess in Ala you can pick up a form at the bmv and do whatever. That is what the brothers did. Of course mother signed it not once but twice!!

Daughterdeb, probably not. If Mom filed no charges, then everything done before or after the POA would be considered to have been done with her consent. Not sure how the failure to file charges keeps her out of a nursing home, unless she understands penalty periods and assumes if you can't afford to place her because of one then you won't. If anyone has POA now maybe they could press charges on her behalf.

Thank you Geo123 and Cheribob for answering.

Ladylee I know the POA has been revoked. I know that the POA was filed AFTER the sell of her home. And the cashing in of bank accounts and CD's, money market too. MOM Won't file charges!! I think she don't so she doesn't have to go to the NH. I am thinking when I do file her will, maybe the courts will do something. ??

Make sure that she has revoked the POA for your brothers. A person has to be declared incompetent for a POA to be activated. If they used her money while POA was not invoked then it is very illegal. Mom would have to procecute to be eligible for Medicaid services.

Daughterdeb - if you want to sell your mom's life insurance there is something called a viaticle.

"The term for this is a "viaticle settlement." Basically, you sell your rights as owner to an unknown buyer, through a broker. The buyer then takes over all premium payments and changes the beneficiary to him or herself. Different states have different rules about this process.

If you live in the U.S., you should contact your state's insurance commissioner's office to see if you can be provided a list of authorized viatical settlement brokers."

I hope this helps.

daughterdeb, my situation is that my mom lives with me and I'm also concerned about people questioning things that she might have given me as gifts or little things of hers that she actually just gave to me. None of it is worth any money, just sentimental to me, but possibly open for quibbling. So, I was planning to actually have her put in her will that I get everything of hers that is physically in my house. Although that includes all her things, her things really aren't worth anything and I'd like to give them to the thrift shop without having someone arguing about it with me.

I also plan to have her include her burial wishes in her will because she's only just told them to me, verbally. If we don't write them down, I'll be accused of making that up.

These are a couple things I'd thought of to include to make my life easier when the time comes to handle all this.

Sadly, Medicaid is the golden ticket.

ferris1 No I didn't intervene 6 yrs ago because I didn't live in the same state. I only called my mother 3 times a week and stayed out of it. I only offered monetary support. She never spoke one word to me about anything until her doctor called me. Keeping good records is all I need to do, and I have. The most important thing is my mother's care. My mother is not trusting now, and doesn't want anyone to have POA of her. She woke up after a mild stroke 6yrs ago, and lost all her and daddy had worked for because she has a will giving them POA. She got the POA rescinded but did nothing else. Not even a new will so far. That will is going to be Probated one day then what?.

One of the things i read on this site that rang true to me was. If you dont help you dont get a vote. Also my dad the giver that he was made a statement when his own siblings hit him with pay outs and court costs after doing for my grandmother for so many years. he said in a letter, we are GIVERS Not TAKERS. I may not have gotten alot of material things as they have and continue to seek but the relationship i have with my daddy is priceless. We can do this ladies and gents. We can do this. Hugs to all

Well, you cannot wish you had intervened six years ago in order to rectify what is happening now. Your siblings view your participation now as an interloper, and they will question you about everything. You may get Power of Attorney from your mother if she is competent and then take care of things without their intrusions. Glad the doctor called you to help her!

I could just kick myself for calling them when mother had a heart attack 3 months ago. We hadn't heard from them since mother moved to Ohio. I changed the phone number last week and I won't be calling them when mother does pass. Mother may not trust them now, I never did, but mother has nothing to lose, I do. I am not stupid, so I am preparing. I have seen them take others to Probate. They walked in my parents home and packed up all my fathers things and mother did nothing. I seen them take things of their own stepchildren's after they were divorced from their mother. I am not stupid, so I am preparing. This site has been a blessing!

daughterdeb my sympathies. I have a sister that fits into the mold you have described. Be prepared for the worst when it comes to these types, but try not to loose any sleep over them. Mine tried to accuse me of stealing to try to get her hands on money. What she didn't realize is I keep records on all the big purchases my mother makes, and medical expenses to show where the money goes. It used to eat at me however through this website I have been able to move on and give myself some piece of mind knowing I am doing things pretty darn good for the old girl. I have even made my sister back off by telling her she can take over at any time. Believe me that will be the day hell freezes over!

Geo123 I am trying to respect my mother's wishes. I would be happy if she made a new will stating she gave them everything already then just saying it verbally. Then the things, little things, gifts my family have bought for her in 4 years isn't up for question when mother dies. I am looking forward in that regard preparing for the worse. What I do now can prevent any "hassles".
They only are interested in the life insurance policy not her. She changed that before I went to Alabama to get her. I never knew about it until 3 months ago. I don't need it but I won't hand it over to them either.

just a little different way to look at things....after being moom's caregiver for 10 yrs..she is now gone....and now I am the one being accused...told everyone from the beginning that i was no bookkeeper...and it was true...what also was TRUE....i never EVER did or could have even thought of doing..steal from her.....now MY response to the grabbers who had nothing to do with her care and are now the accusers want everything....my response to them?? TAKE IT...HAVE IT ALL!! And i mean it...

It sounds like it's something you feel strongly that you should do and it's good to hear that she has someone that really does care about watching over her and her finances. I'm also glad that you're protecting your own finances, as well.

TKUP66 Yes the Nursing homes do it automatically on all pre-residents which is for the good of all elderly. Mother has been with me 4 yrs. She CAN move in now BUT mother won't because she doesn't want the brothers to get in trouble. Plus she doesn't want to go in a Nursing home yet. She has no POA now nor does she want one after the brothers. She says no need now.
Thankfully you can say you have some mementos of your childhood or your parent. I don't have a thing from my mothers home. She had to buy a bedroom set and a TV and TV trays when she was dumped in a motel room. She begged them for some of her things back then and they dropped off her clothes. True shameful story. It isn't about the material things, it is about her not doing what would be for her own benefit!!