Best way to deal with irrationality?

First of all, Im sorry your going through all this and this sounds so familiar. I went through a similar scenario when my father left I was left to be the punching bag or the "husband" for my mother. It didn't help I look much like my biological father.i The controlling factor was running rampid, many times I too went to bed feeling like I was going crazy with that full adrenaline. Im sorry your going through this. What I did was getting involved in an outside activity, volunteering at church, feeding the homeless, cooking and fundraising for a homeless crowd, Im not going to lie it was hard to come home to a yelling controlling bitter mother with hypertension. I had to do other things like join a support group for other women. The best thing I think helped me was join a womens group, a support group and womens prayer team. Being around other strong women is truly empowering and will help you get your life back in perspective. Realizing that you are truly beautiful for who you are and being around women that truly accept you and love and care for your will help you brush off the irrationality coming from your mother. I had to realize that my mother doesn't know how to love me even if she tried but I had to love her anyways. That was hard everytime she ridiculed me or tried to control me but I had to focus on the truth that she doesn't love me as I deserve it because she doesn't love her self either.

Thank you,
Yes my outside life has become almost nonexistent since being here, although that's not really her fault - I'm the one who's gotten reclusive. Probably from just being focused on what's at hand, namely, helping her and also business issues on my end that take all of my focus. I'll work on getting more balanced because I am not sufficiently supported with other things since moving here. It would be good to get out of here and be more around some normalcy to balance things.
Just to clarify, she's not abusive, she's actually overly loving and smother-mothering - which drives me batty. Really freaking batty because while I love my mom in my own way, there are no warm fuzzies going on on this end.

But she is very irrational about the small things of life in everyday conversation. And if I bring up facts (no I will likely not get killed if I go to the grocery store after dark), she gets very upset. So it has the effect of cowing to her irrationality all the time (just move the water and shutup and treat it as if it's a rational request) which leaves me in the "yes dears." (I have not modified any of my trips to the grocery store though - draw the line there).

I definitely do feel like a surrogate husband though. She wants companionship and I've become it. It's not a comfortable position to be in because I do feel like an emotional hostage even though I am here of my own volition. And I feel like an awful person becuase I should WANT to be her companionship. That's what family is for. But I'm doing my best in that respect as far as showing up.

I'm mostly wondering the best way to respond to the irrationality and I guess trying to get some outside support would be the first order of business.

ALso, going to bed with that full adrenaline is hard. I seem to have a higher than normal cortisol response - may be hormonal lately, not sure - but it takes a day or so to get it out of the system and it definitely wrecks your sleep. And she gets a burst of energy at midnight, and wants to chat, hang out, bring stuff up. I'm an early-to-bed person (10:30) and so I just try to get out of it. Last night we were disucssing some household thiings and had an argument (thankfully a small one) at 3 am. I did not sleep well as a result. Usually I can get away if it starts and get into my room and shut the door but last night I coudln't.

She probably has some degree of dementia. With my mom, I just go along to get along.

"Maggie! You hurt my arm!!!" (No, I barely grazed it, but she wasn't expecting it.) "Oh, mom, I'm sorry. I'll be more careful."

"Maggie! That glass is going to fall off the table!"
"Okay, let's move it."

"Maggie! My Depends are wet!" (No, they're not.)
"Okay, mom, let's change them.

"Maggie! You left me in bed all morning!" (It's 6 AM.)
"I'll try to get up earlier tomorrow." (No, I won't actually. Ha!)

"Maggie! There's someone breaking into the neighbor's house!" (It's the UPS man walking up the steps.)
"Really? Okay, let's see what he does, and I'll call the police."

In other words, whatever she says? I agree with. She's not in her right mind after all. Trying to reason with someone who has dementia and is convinced of their own reality is a waste of breath. Smile a little smile to yourself...be glad it's not you...wink at visitors...and give yourself a big hug and pat on the back.

Such is the life of a caregiver.

Was your mom ever diagnosed with OCD or an anxiety disorder? The fixation on the water glass and the possibility of you being murdered if you venture out to the grocery store after dark seems like the kind of catastrophizing typical of someone suffering from free-floating anxiety.

As for how to respond to her irrationality, that's a tough one. As a very rational person, my MIL's rampant irrationality drives me nuts. I don't live with her (Thank all that is holy) but she frequently comes out with gems that make no sense. Like this one:

"It's too bad that Cousin X died at only seventy-five. He fell from the barn rafters onto a cement floor when he was five, and hit his head. That's why he died so young."

I thought to myself, Cousin X lived SEVENTY YEARS after he fell on his head! The head injury didn't kill him! He lived about as long as was normal for white males of his generation, you aggravating woman!

What I said was, "That's too bad. I know you liked Cousin X."

In MIL's case, she's always been irrational, and age isn't improving her reasoning power any.

Just tuning out and going with it will save you a lot of stress. It might also help if you report some of her odder remarks here. I, for one, would love to hear about what's up with the kitchen sponge.

Well, the sponge can't be used in the sink. Because the sink is apparenttly horribly dirty (Oprah said so). We must use a brush on the sink. The sponge can only be used on the counters, and for no dishes. I have a separate sponge for my teflon frying pan, can't share them. And we must use the brush for the dishes. It's actually worked out to be a decent system but the little elements of control around it are annoying. While they aren't bad suggestions per se, she gets very agitated if this is altered.
I don't think she's afraid I will get murdered every time I go to he store, but is convinced that no one goes out in the evening - "no one" - because it's just unsage to do so. That may be true in some places, but we live in a suburban retirment community where your demise is most likely to be caused by a rogue golf cart.

unsage=unsafe - typo sorry...

Another note - I wish they would let us edit posts here - she is not willing to go to any type of counselors but does admits that she might have an anxiety disorder. Won't do anything about it though and is very stubborn to any suggestions.

"She tries to control every detail of everything" - that's likely the crux of the obsessive placement of things and control over you. She's trying, probably subconsciously,to create order in a mind which is deteriorating and confused from dementia.

I've written this before but I think it's a good analogy so I'll repost it. I took an Alzheimer's Assn. class on caregiving, and one of our group exercises was to imagine this scenario:

You're on the free way driving home in a (rainstorm)(blizzard). Traffic is slow, visibility is low, defrosters aren't working well and you have to keep clearing the windows. Driving conditions are terrible. You're stressed from the traffic and from inching along on the freeway.

The passenger next to you is talking constantly, not really saying anything but just chattering way. It's hard to concentrate.

Then you look in your rear view mirror and see a big truck coming at you (likely down an entrance ramp) and it doesn't appear as if it's going to stop. How do YOU feel? Terror? Panic?

The idea is that people suffering from dementia can feel this overwhelming sense of too much stimuli, and it becomes fearful and threatening. There's also a sense of loss of control.

But I can imagine how irritating it must be for you, especially with the need for socialization at unsocial hours.

I don't know of any good ways to deal with that other than try to have a social hour before she goes to bed and get it over with, but then her mind isn't really in control at specified times.

The anger is something I think most of us can understand. Cortisol stress is toxic, as you seem to know.

Sometimes you can defuse it by listening to music, doing exercises (but not enough to get you physically charged up, just enough to relax you). If you draw, play an instrument, journal, or even just read, try to do that before bedtime to counteract that stress.

I think what works for some doesn't work for everyone, but do try the soothing music first.

And yes, this forum needs to have an edit function for posting.

Your mother and my mother must have been separated at birth! I'm in the same situation except that my mother also cannot do simple things like READ an invoice. She gets angry and starts accusing the sender of trying to raid her bank account. So this is my job to read her mail. She tells people that everyone around here is in danger of having them home shot into. It's a really quiet neighborhood. A peeping tom may come and climb up the ladder left in the yard and look into her room. (Don't think so, mom!) She also cannot figure out the telephone. She also says that the tv clicker is defective. She wants to change her doctor for the fourth time in seven years. I have a feeling that her dementia, which was mild, is getting worse. Everything is the worst case scenario, and as a teen I knew that it was pointless to argue with her about anything because she was not rational. If I show her something in writing - like a magazine article - she will believe it more than if I just tell her. Like you, I end up ticked off and with my stomach in knots - in addition she has trouble hearing, so the explanations have to be repeated over and over....

I have high cortisol and the stomach fat that goes with it. (One smug doctor told me that I needed to 'learn how to deal with stress.' Like I don't already know that?)

A counselor once told me to say to her 'well, you may be right, but......'
And they also said that I could try ' why do you think that?'
The last one seems to work best for me - you could try it. Good luck.

I meant 'their' - not them. (Hey I'm Southern, but not redneck trash!) hee hee

I really believe that some elder parents cannot accept the fact that their own children are now "senior citizens" themselves, so those parents keep on treating us like we have the maturity level of a teenager or someone in their early 20's. That they need to continue to keep "teaching us"..... like nothing ever good happens outside after midnight..... put on a sweater if you go outside or you will catch a cold.... advice we been hearing all our life.... Mom's will be Mom no matter how old we are.

I notice my parents [92 & 96] are still helicopter parents toward me [68]. Any time I get a cold, they would think I wouldn't have tissues, antihistamines, cough drops, etc. in the house.... OMG, I spend the last 50 years never having any of this stuff in my own home :P

You said the doctor has yet to weigh in on this issue with your mom. What are you waiting for? She needs help with anxiety and maybe OCD, and some meds will probably help her, and you. Stop complaining and do something that may actually make a difference.

Get her some Ativan. I did for mom. If she won't take it, I will. If you are in one of those medical maryjane states, get some of that and make her some brownies.

Is she willing to help "set" the table? Can you place the glass and utensils or napkins on the table while you're preparing the plates of food? Encourage her to place the glass, utensils or napkins where she pleases. You'll be fine regardless of the positioning of the items. Her concept of disaster prevention has reached a low point. You know you are able to keep from having spills so it's OK if she thinks otherwise. Can you give her the freedom to place it where she wants? If it's not overly traumatic, can you change seating position/arrangement so that she can not reach the glass so easily? Try to agree with her on non-essential issues. It's not essential to you if the glass is on one side or the other, but it is to her. Being flexible does not make you a "yes man". Place the glass in a position that decreases her anxiety or confusion is just a more discreet method of your taking control of the situation. Seize the moment at which you can discretely take care of what needs to be taken care of. It will save you a lot of grief and guilt. You owe it to yourself. You deserve some peace within her chaotic world. Also - use Maggie's examples she noted in her comments above. When going to the store - devote some of your "travel" time to yourself. So take that walk, or even buy a magazine to keep in the car so you can go into a place, get a drink, and relax while reading an interesting article and having a cold drink! Create your own respite time/ space. Take your cell phone with you. If you can, keep a brief log of odd behavior. If it's repetitive, you can create a basic chart with one item like "sponge". Then tally how often she exhibits the odd behavior. Daily? Every meal? Nighttime? If you create a paper document, hand it to the nurse or responsible staff. If possible deliver it to the doctor's office prior to your mom's doctor visit. Attach a written note that instructs the nurse to pass this along to the doctor. The note should briefly state you've observed these behaviors RECENTLY and think she is experiencing some CHANGE in her mental functioning. Don't give the change a name - the doctor has to determine that. The important thing is having the changes recorded on a paper document which they must enter into her medical record. Verbal comments are too easy to dismiss as just complaints rather than observations. Let us know how you do. You deserve all the help you can muster up.

Great sponge story. If Oprah said so, it must be true.

Your MIL would hate my MIL, whom I once caught using the same sponge to wash her dishes as she used to wipe bird feces from her car windshield. MIL has a housekeeper and a groundskeeper, but she doesn't like them to do work because "their ancestors were slaves." (????) I say we bring them together and let them drive each other nuts.

Well at least shes being careful with the glass which i find confusing my mum just got dangerous and we couldnt reason with her? mum puts her glass on the arms of the chair and knocks it regularly wont listen ive given up she does what she wants and argues over everything so i let her at it unless its hot tea then i have to take it away!
But maybe some dementia become a bit ocd gosh sometimes when i look at the mess here i wish mum had this!

All I could do was nod my head when I read your posts, trapped. My mother is much the opposite, but she seems to take joy in trying to get my dander up. We're told repeatedly not to argue with our elder charges. I wish someone would pass along that same advice to them! I can rarely say anything without my mother taking the opposite stance just to start an argument. I sigh and try to ignore the baiting. Tonight she tried to start one after I said something. She retorted by saying the same thing. I said that there was no argument, since we were agreeing. She got very mad and said no, we were not. She didn't know why I always had to argue with her. Sigh. I don't know why she has to fight at me all the time. We can't even agree peacefully.

sodonewithsal, your mother sounds like mine when it comes to cleanliness. I have to pick up all the cloths after they are used to make sure she doesn't clean the floor, then wash the dishes with the same cloth. It is really disgusting, so I've gotten a little OCD about it myself.

Personally, I think we ought to have medals for caregivers -- purple hearts, medals of valor, silver stars, medals of honor, peace prizes. I think most of us would be well decorated by now.

Although I don't recommend "drugging your mother out", a very low dose of anti-anxiety medication/anti-depressant such as Zoloft worked a miracle on my mother. It was very painful to see the anxiety and worry she was going through and she could occasionally relax once the medication kicked in. I put off asking for this type of medication for a year and I regret my reluctance. Now that reluctance seems silly. You will have to monitor her reaction carefully, there can be so much impact with other medications and on a fragile elderly system.

There were still catastrophes in the making, but not the obsession with the potential for catastrophe. I know it is very hard not to get angry, but it is really not your responsibility to make her understand that she is obsessing. She is obsessing because of the disease of dementia/alzheimers, and not for any rational reason, so there is really no rational argument you can make to put her at ease. It is nice of you to try though.

Aniexty usually come up when people recognize their decline. It sounds to me like your mom is creating the conflict with you to distract her from from from her internal conflict about her decline. Try asking her question about what she is feeling or her experience when she is creating conflict with you. Say, mom I notice you are a little in edge about ( conflict at the moment) mention what you observe ( example your voice is elevated, your face is red, your body language is tense and you appear upset) what are you feeling? If she attempts to make it about you say I am sorry that is what you think is happening I see it as ( list what you have done recently or how you see it) then disengage go in another room. Once she reflects ask her how you can help or support her. If she has the capacity to be rational this will likely calm her down.

Trapped, your experience is more common than anyone wants to admit. Much wisdom has come from prior posters. My comments include: you can't use reason or rationale on an irrational thinker (like my own 87-yr-old mother)---They think what they think and that's that. Trying to help them 'see the light' often makes them defensive, argumentative, hostile. I, too, believe it comes from their fear of losing control of their memories and their worlds. I often visualize the response of a caged animal in a new and frightening environment to temper my own response---which heretofore was the adrenaline spike/stress-out that you report. My therapist (yes, due to this issue and a divorce helped out by it) advised me to accommodate as possible, mirror things back ("You want to move this glass because I might spill the water?") to let her see her own irrationale if that is still possible, or just say nothing and remove myself temporarily if necessary to stay healthier. Just sounds like the spiral of dementia has begun in her case, helped along by some other prior 'issues' that are tough to diagnose once the mental decline has begun. My mother's paranoia is real and is coming back in full force after a 6 month hiatus courtesy of Namenda, a dementia drug. Paranoia is also characteristic of increasing dementia. My best counsel: 1) She says/does these (wacky) things for some reason. Let her explain. She may just want to be heard; 2) Protect your own sanity and health however you can: with support groups, outside social interactions, or alone time distractions as per others' suggestions; 3) Don't be afraid or ashamed of the current "Yes, dear" status. It may be the best way to handle things at this stage and will not go on forever; 4) Consider getting her analyzed with an open mind about meds that might reduce her anxiety/OCD/paranoia as you may both benefit if done properly. All on this blog wish you the best in these trying circumstances. Press on.

It sounds like it's time to talk to her doctor. We discovered my mother's irrationality and agitation was greatly helped by anti-anxiety medication - alprazolam or Xanax in her case. She is much easier to live with now.

Trapped123, I can relate to the "replace her furniture" comment.

My parents home is so dark it is like a cave.... both my parents have age related eye problems so I am sure they are stepping on dropped papers and pencils. Any time I suggest they might want to think about opening up the shades to bring in some light, Mom will say "I don't want the sun to fade the furniture"..... I can understand that if the furniture was brand new, but many decades old, none are antiques. I want to say your safety is more important than the sun touching the edge of the side table, but I know it would fall on deaf ears.

Been there & still there. In regards to the glass: chances are she is in the way-back machine & you are a child getting ready to spill your milk once again.
I've recently discovered two excellent resources - Jo Huey and "The 10 Absolutes" in dealing with Dementia. Also there are hours of seminars on YouTube from Teepa Snow on the Senor Helpers channel. A MUST need to know for any adult child caring for their aging parent. In hopes these help you.

Sorry - The Senior Helpers channel on YouTube. :)

It is always tempting to tell someone with as much anxiety about their cared-for to 'relax,' but if you can't then things will get worse, or seem, to do even if they don't in real terms.

How much of a pain would it be to put your water glass where it doesn't cause your Mummy any anxiety? If you don't suffer from OCD, then just move the glass. No biggie.

People that talk to themselves are not necessarily hallucinating. You need more evidence of hallucination than a mere surmise based on that. Lots of people, including me, talk to themselves. It is not a sign of being wacko, but a useful device to facilitate decision making. If she is having hallucinations, then apart from psychotropic drugs there's little you can do to stop them. If all they do is cause her to talk to herself, or to respond to her voices, if she has voices, then where's the harm?

If only caregivers would stop trying to make someone whose mind has changed revert back to what it was when they approved of them, there would be a lot less misery and a lot more happiness in caregiver situations.

You can no more argue a deluded person aback to 'normality' than you can beat the Chinese language into a fish with a stick, snd only someone completely daft would even make the attempt.

To caregivers with 'difficult' patients, stop making was against the differences, and accept with all the good grace you can muster that your loved one is now different, not through choice but by circumstance that you and all the gods of medicine are, for the most part, powerless to change.

Get on with life, making the best of what may very well be a bad lot. Whatever it is, your calling to to adopt the nurse's creed:

To Heal - Sometimes
To Improve - Often
To Comfort - Always.

My your God bless you.

As a dementia specialist and practitioner I always teach families this is not a person who is screaming , it is the desease
I facilitate support groups in New Jersey . Very helpful, excellent information.

Sorry Ronniebray, but it's ALWAYS something - if it's not one thing that isn't right, then it's something else. Dementia may make it worse, but for many people this has been a lifelong personality issue. With my mother - being the youngest - I think it was a way to simply get attention. I have placated her to the point where I am totally exhausted and I know there are others on here with the same situation. Nothing is ever good enough. My father is in his nineties and he said yesterday, 'she won't do anything that anyone tells her to do and she won't be happy.'
There you have it.

Thank you so much everyone, sorry for the delay in getting back to the thread.
I will check out those resources and connections.
it is fast becoming apparent that the "yes dears" are the best strategy, the path of least resistance.
As to the hallucinations, it's probably not the case all the time, but I do have some evidence of that from things that she's told me. Some of it may be just working things out in her head - except I think she may be talking to someone.

I'm just at my wits end and having a very difficult time with my anger. I can't seem to keep it from leaking out and believe me I am trying. small incidents. LIke she was going to get something very light, and it had three towels draped over it, so she just looked at it and then went and sat down. I had to come in from the other room and move the towels. Which i did angrily and patronizingly. She says she's old and I'm younger so I can do it. Sh'es not lazy, she just believes she is frail (she's not that frail) and thinks that even picking up her tiny little purse is 'heavy.' Whole time she was complaining about the heat. One step into the heat, she's complaining that' sit's making her sick. Really. One step. Not even off the front step.. and after a point i just am ready to scream.

We were out for about two hours today, one stop and then the grocery store. In the car it was over and over, at least 30 complaints about how she feels, how she hates the sun, how she hates the heat, how she feels bad (again), how she has cramps because she had a piece of bread yesterday, on and on and F*ing ON. I finally snapped at her and told her to knock it off, told her I would take her home if she wanted to go and she was genuinely sick, and offered to do the shopping, which she declined but then continued to complain.

We got in the car and I was getting the keys out of my purse. "Hurry up, " she kept saying "It's hot." " Turn the car on. I can't take the heat. " I told her I was getting the keys out of my purse and could not turn the car on without them. "Hurry up. Do it now." "It's too hot. IIt's making me sick. " Etc. Started again. Loop.

There is a household decision that has to be made, something needs to be inspected by a professional, that is urgent, which she just brushes off as if it is no big deal even though it could lead to major damage if it's not addressed. It's those kinds of things that drive me up the wall also. I am going to need to move out here eventually because it will be best for both of us. My main fear also is that if she continues to get worse I will be stuck there 24-7 babysitting. Is there anything that willl allow for in-home nursing care when you don't have any money?

Yesterday I went to take a shower, and she was knocking on the door of the bathrrom. "Is that you?" I told her I was taking a shower. "Well come out here. I want to talk to you. Right away." I told her I was in the bathroom and unavailable and would be out when I was done. I hurried up and dried off and came out to see what the dire emergency was. "No emergency. I just hand't seen you and and wanted to talk (about current goings-on). I told her that from here on to not knock on the bathroom door unless the house was on fire. She regularly knocks on the door when I am in there to ask something that could wait. She does not seem to understand what can wait and what can't, everything is urgent and immediate. I am not sure how to set boundaries with this , if that's even possible. She is not controlling by nature, as in ordering people around, it's more that she's anxious and can't seem to delay resolution for whatever it is that's important in that minute.

I nee to find a way to keep my temper in check because it's coming out passive-aggressively, and that helps no one. I want to be serene enough to laugh it off but I really am feeling the internal effects of my own anger in this.

oh, added note: I suggested that we talk to the doc if she is truly not feeling well and she became irate and said nothing was wrong except that it is summer.