Best way to deal with irrationality?

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Best way to deal with irrationality?

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It is frustrating dealing with mom's irrationality. She's always been this way to some extent, it just seems to be getting worse. Doc has not yet weighed in on dementia but I see it.
Every little thing has to be a certain way in her world. It may be part of that being the only way she can process. And things are very extreme. For instance, small example, but she moves my water glass on the table, even though it is well within where it should be, because she is sure I am somehow going to dump it all over and she will have to "replace her furniture." EVen if it's just water. I'm quite sure at this late I've figured out how to have a catastrophe-free meal. Yet every night, she moves the glass.
There are many examples far more irrational than that, but I don't want to put down any details that might identify her. She has a great deal of anxiety about what should be normal things. When you try to present her with a fact or show her that what she is saying is not plausible, she gets very angry and then accuses me of forcing her blood pressure to raise and 'making her sick.' (Those physical changes actually do happen with her so I try not to agitate her). She tries to control every detail of everything and is constantly coming into my room to talk about the kitchen sponge, this or that. She's not really that controlling by nature so much as I think it shakes up her world when things are shifting and changing.

She has been having some things that I believe are hallucinations, I sometimes hear her talking to herself in the bathroom, and challenging anything with reality just makes her furious. And goes nowhere.

But where that leaves me is basically as a surrogate husband - I've settled into the 'yes dear's". I rarely get anywhere trying to challenge her. I find myself stuffing down anger with cake and ice cream and sometimes going to bed with adrenaline in m system. I've tried not to let my anger show but it either stuffs back down or comes out passive-aggressively. I sometimes end up going to bed with adrenaline in my system. Rational conversation only goes so far because it's the little irrationalities that drive me up the wall. The big things we can generally handle.
This is getting very unhealthy on my end, and I often have the urge to break something just to let it out - but I don't. Although I did bang my bed with a pillow last week.
When I can afford to , it will be best for us both for me to get my own place unless there is a medical reason to do otherwise. FOr now, this is what it is.

Suggestions on handling anger and cortisol? Thank you

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Trapped, what are your Mother's health issues? You mentioned she's been a complainer for quite some time, now it has become worse.... maybe she is bored and complaining is her way of making conversations.

There is nothing wrong with talking to one's self, many level headed people do that.... it helps us [yes I do that] sort out things. I am so glad that hands free cellphones were invented as now, while driving, if someone seeing me taking, they assume I am taking into my cellphone :)

Next time your Mom doesn't feel you are moving quick enough to start the car or do any other chore, ask her if she would want to drive or do the chore herself so that it would be done the way she wants it done.

Maybe your Mom needs a female friend her own age, someone to talk to.... the two of them could spend hours talking and complaining. Do you live near a Senior Community Senior where your Mom could meet new people?

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The cortisol is a killer - my stomach will never be the same. I use the 3 R's with my Mums - repeat, redirect, reassure, not always in that order. My mom has a thing with the hoses now. She keeps unraveling them and then says "there is something wrong with the hose." So frustrating for me but she does not seem to mind. I just roll up the hose for the hundredth time and swallow my stress which goes straight to my midsection. I would make an appointment with a neurologist for your Mom. Sounds like a mixture of OCD, anxiety and maybe some dementia and she needs a diagnosis and maybe some meds.

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Ha... when bluetooth headsets were first out, I had never seen one, and reported a guy talking to himself to security...lol
Redirecting might work as a strategy.
I have talked to her doc on the downlow but it didn't go anywhere. She came back from her physical with reports of "perfect health." I'm going to talk to him again and see if he can revaluate.
We are generally pretty holistic, but I think a good anxiety drug might hlep - but she refuses. She has something she's taken in tiny amounts for at least 20 years - and refused ts to be open to other options or seek any kind of mental health help. Believe me I've tried. My guess is that the doc could not convince her either. They did ask her some depression questions and she passed the test. The effects of stress and blood pressure with her are of great concern but she refuses any other strategies.She's istubbornly closed to anything new.

The cortisol - at least two or three times a day for me but I am trying to find a way to bring down the internal response.

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Love the hose story...that's hilarious.

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The best way to deal with irrationality is to make sure you always vote Democrat!

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Trapped, I read your last message and can see your anger is seeping over the top. I doubt that you are going to be able to change your mother, and you are not financially ready to separate yet. The only suggestion I have is work on the way you feel about things. The complaining can be difficult to listen to, but with a little practice you can distance yourself from it. It can become like background chatter. I do this to my mother when I'm driving. She talks nonstop about people and wrecks and ailments. I put my mind in chauffeur mode and just tend to my driving. My only consideration is getting us to our destination safely. Letting ourselves get angry or distracted is not a good thing when driving.

We're often told we can't help the way we feel, but it isn't true. We can. We learned when we were kids that we had to listen to our mothers. As older people we can learn when to tune them out. We really have to do this, because we would go bonkers otherwise. There are many ways to self soothe. We all have to find the thing that works for us.

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Trapped: I know all too well & believe she is playing you like a fiddle.
My mom put all the buttons there when I was a child and knows just which one to push to destroy me on any given day.
Take three deep cleansing breaths, walk away if you have to but do Not let her destroy you. The longer you allow her to manipulate you the worse it will get.
Realize how absurd her complaints are and laugh at her remarks. That will discourage her if she knows she cannot harm you. If she is anything like my mom (I believe she is), harming you is the intention. You are no more than a servant and source of amusement in her eyes. She knows she is not frail but enjoys making you jump through the hoops. This is what a narcissist is all about.
Dementia is debilitating to both of you. If your dad was a veteran you can get aid & attendance for home care.
Please do not allow her to push your buttons. They have raised us to be sensitive intentionally. Do not let it consume you. You can overcome this.
In regards to the knocking while you're in the shower: She is starting to shadow you. Please go to YouTube & the Senior Helpers National Channel and watch EVERYTHING by Teepa Snow NOW. You will be encouraged and have a better understanding of what you are dealing with.

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Thank you
I just blew it again. She asked me something really ridiculous and I told her she needed to think things through before asking me, then come to me only if she can't figure it out. She got angry and it was demeaning to her even though I didn't mean it that way. But I can't do al her thinking for her or she wont think for herself. I should have phrased it like, 'are you asking me (blah blah blah) so that she could hear how dumb the question was. rather than laying into her, which really goes nowhere anyway since she's convinced she's fine (except not really).

She has not been diagnosed with anyhting so i don't know if she needs or would accept home care but it may come to that. Dad was a vet although he was retired, not VA - would we qualify?

Shadowing. Ugg. I f*ing hate this. I'm sorry but I need to get out of here. It will probably be another 6-8 months but I am going to bed angry for the third night in a row (or the third month in a row) and this is not good for either of us. I am trying to be nice, kind benevolent but I don't think I can do this. I hate this. Hate, hate, hate it. I can probalby be of more service to her with some distance. I'm so angry i can't even type. iw ill check out those resources thank you.

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Going to call the doc tomorrow too. need to know what we're dealing with here

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Trapped, is your Mom's doctor a geriatric doctor, one who specializes in senior citizens? The geriatric doctor my parents have is great, she is so in tuned with my parents and with me.... when asking my parents questions she will glance at me to see if I shake my head yes or no. The funny thing, my parents don't like their doctor because she is female... sigh, there's the old fashioned stereotype.

Trapped, not everyone is cut out to be a Caregiver... just as not everyone is cut out to be a brain surgeon, or a lawyer, or a farmer. I try to think of it that way, as I get mentally burned out when my parents verbally come up with the darnest things.... now I am trying to find humor in the things they say... I find that is helping somewhat.

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I think her doc is just a general doc. This is an area with a lot of older people so perhaps he is geared toward that. She likes him because he is holistic. He seems like a good doc. I doubt if she'd be open to seeing anyone else. Yet it is a concern to me that i could have detailed discussions with him previously, she waited a few months for an appt so as not to alert her, and then she comes back with a clean bill of health. He did not follow up with me separately. But it's doubtful he could convince her to take a CT scan or anything else bc she's so stubborn. i am very surprised she has not had a Vitamin D test because she has avoided the sun almost completely for the last 30 years. And if she did have dementia, what do you do with that? is there a benefit to her knowing? It would just make her feel worse. There's no treatment, correct?
Regarding the questions, it just irks me that she doesn't try to think for herself. Sometimes she does, about certain things.But often she will just ask me about things she could figure out for herself with a litttle effort,, sometimes the most basic of questions. She will ask where something is without looking for it even if it is sitting right in front of her. She asks me what she should do about basic household things that she should be figuring out for herself but does not expend the effort to do so. This is also a longstanding pattern of getting other people (usually her husband) to do her thinking for her, it's just worse now because she is often genuinely confused on top of it. And it makes me sound like a bully, which I'm not, but I don't want ot turn into one. I'm just sick of it. it may be better for her if I move out and am not here to ask, which will force her to problem-solve.

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I suppose i should research more about treatments before posting that - just thinking out loud. There probably are some things that can help but we don't even know what's wrong. She says it's all just stress because of her awful life, but it's not. I asked him if some of the confusion could be side effects from her meds. He could likely not convince her to change to a more effective anxiety drug bc she's stubborn. I need to be more educated about this than I have been, I've just been wrapped up in responding to immediate crises that we've had to deal with and have been preoccupied, and left that part to the doc. This kind of thing is complicated. She had mental health issues and also a head injury many years ago and it's hard to sort out what's what. Some of these are longstanding patterns that seem to have set in and are just worse now.

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she's on 4 meds and the anx drug is pretty minimal, if there are side efx they will be from the other ones

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Distance may be better for both of you. I am a better caregiver if it isn't 24/7. My limit is 3 hours at a time maybe. It's not that I don't love and care for her but that I know how much I can bear. I never had children and did not need parenting skills until now. That is why I am LearningCurve.
Please go to the doctor prepared. Write down the behavior as well as you can and present it to the doctor before your mom is seen. This will save the embarrassment of your mother screaming "There's nothing wrong with me!"
Understand that many doctors are afraid to get involved with dementia and if they are aged themselves may also be in denial.
It is hard not to involve your mom in a discussion about her own mental health. No one wishes to admit that they may have gone over to a dark place. The doctor if willing may know how to approach the subject better. I have found that while my mom has absolutely no respect for me, she does have respect for everyone else and will listen to them. You may still be a child in her eyes.
Diversion, diversion, diversion is the key. When things start to get ugly, change the subject or walk away for a few minutes. The "10 absolutes" by Jo Huey are also incredibly valuable. Things that do us NO good at all and will get us nowhere fast: Don't argue or try to reason with an irrational person. Don't shame - it will further alienate and widen the fisher between you. I would beg, plead and argue with my mom for years to no avail. You may be talking to a child who is regressing. In short, do not use any of the tactics our parents used raising us. They will not work.
I pray God's divine protection and favor on us all.

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I'm a firm believer in vitamin D3 supplements. The "sunshine vitamin" as you say your mom avoids the sun. Not only does it improve our outlook but aids in our absorption of calcium.

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Years ago a blood test showed I was way below the average range for vitamin D and vitamin B12.... been taking supplements ever since. My parents do the same. In fact, my parents [mid 90's] will sit in the sun for at least 15 minutes every sunny day.... I see them on their back porch, legs pants rolled up, sleeves rolled up, wearing hats and sunglasses. In the winter, they do the same on their glassed enclosed porch.

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Trapped, one could get side effects from the fillers that are used in pills that make the pill large enough to handle, to bind and coat the pill. Each pharmaceutical manufacturer has their own formula. The trick is to find that one manufacturer where you can tolerate the pills.

I even run into a filler problem with over the counter vitamins... thus I have to limit myself to one brand only. Last year I found out my Mom has the same problem with her meds.

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Look like a mirrored action. Many demented (ALZ) persons Seem to be afraid to be alone. They follow you where ever you go( IN THE HOME). Very irratable. Have little or no compassion. Dislike most people, especially their caregiver. Mess all over themselves without understanding what they have done. Bathing is a no no to them. Shampooing , not on your tin-type. Hate showers. Aggressive . Increased memory loss when tired. Tough job,but if you love them you will still care for them.

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I feel for you because I know exactly from where you are peaking and feeling. My Mom had ever worsening dementia and I've learned it manifests in unique ways to the individual personality. You can't do anything about it as far as her - you need to come to terms with yourself and how not to let it get to you. Easier said than done - I know from experience and my similar situation drove me to less than stellar behavior and problematic health issues. If things become so bad for you then you need to consider alternatives for her care and your own preservation. Let go of any guilt in this regard. If you've done your best and it's all you can do then repeat that mantra and stay sane. It's like going down with a sinking ship - she is dragging you down because you allow it from any of many perspectives you have.You need an advocate to tell you it's okay and you're entitled to your feelings and a life of your own. I won't go into my nightmare of a life from long term caregiving - it only matters to me. However I am blessed with great friends and helpful relatives enough to keep me going. I'm cursed with a few relatives who seem to enjoy raising my misery index. Just look at it as a temporary situation that will end some time. When it's over - celebrate - know you the best you could have done.

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Very helpful page, folks! It's like I wrote all those things it's so familiar. Today I am supposed to do last minute moving details for my OCD, Narc, BPD, Bi-polar, and God knows what else 93 year old mother. She has organized and cleaned much of her apartment herself: is a nervous wreck, refuses help and demands things and then doesn't accept what I do, and finds someone else to rescue her.
She started yesterday talking about the new place has a long corridor so I was worried about dragging all her groceries for her or is she is to do some shopping herself. I tried to discuss getting her a collapsible shopping cart on wheels: she put up a fuss with that. Totally irrational. This morning I went out and bought one and told her it was for me and if she liked it she can pay me back. (Money is not the problem for her.) I came back and she yelled at me and was sarcastic and mean. Finally she thought she'll pay me for it. Next clean the bathroom: She came in to criticize everything I was doing.

I nicely kept saying, "This is how I clean a bathroom. Don't worry, it will be a good job." She argued it didn't have to look that good...

Next came the refrigerator. But there was no room to put anything and no room to work. "Mom, can you please move these things so I can have a place to work?" More yelling and protests. "Why do you need me to do that?" she demanded. I answered her and she put her hands over her ears, as if totally overwhelmed and then she stared working herself into a rant. "YOU'RE POISON, to me, you know that?"
"Fine. I'm leaving. I don't like to be treated this way." And I left.
My mother was abusive to me growing up and I am NOT going to put up with this. I'll return when she calms down and if she stays like that. Tough. She has no one else. I did nothing wrong. I refuse to be her scapegoat for an insane person. I don't care if she is sick or not. She is capable of being decent and nice when she wants. She still has a brain if she wants to use it. I can't take any more of her crap!! Good for Mother Theresa. I am not like that. But I don't treat her badly, mind you. I never yell at her or do what she does to me.

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Juddhabudha!! was mother theresa not found out frauding alot of money?

gosh your mums a right pain and yes walk away! Mum has calmed down now since last week until the next "tantrum" when is enough enough?

Tonight i told her we were having chicken and veg with last nights potatoes! She asked "how are you going to heat the potatoes you cant heat potatoes you will have to make new ones!" OMG please help me shes saying some pretty whacky things lately?again asked me why i have a tan? are you taking something to make your skin brown? I just dont know how to answer these crazy questions? she has her hearing aid in and dosnt understand anything im saying anymore i have to answer her twice but its not her hearing she dosnt register what im saying its getting scary now.

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Hi Kaaza. I really need someone to talk to. So glad you responded! The image of my mother holding her ears and screaming at me, "You're POISON!" was hard to handle! I feel such hatred for her right now. She could have apologized but she never does that either. She definitely can't seem to think straight, understand anyone, have a conversation. All she wants to do is bark impossible orders at me, criticize me, and pretend she is in control. It makes me want to puke to watch her!! It's like watching a cartoon of an ego: the most pathetic kind. I can't wait til she moves to that new apt. I'll have a better excuse for not seeing her: too inconvenient. She'll be busy brown nosing others. She delights in asking people for things and not using her brain, getting attention, and putting me down in public. I have never felt such hatred for someone. I feel like this experience is making a monster out of me: it's all inside: I never yell back and tell her what what I really need and want to say. I can't take much more of her!

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Your mom sounds like a royal P.I. A too. They can't communicate anymore. It's just a matter of time now for their demise.
I'm going to meditate before bed! Need to desperately. Two more nightmare days ahead getting her moved. If she yells at me, I'll walk away again. I am getting to not even care what happens to her anymore.

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Juddha, does your mum have alz/dementia? I tell you, you are so lucky you can meditate i would gladly PAY someone to help me meditate!! my friend is always trying to get me to do this but i am wired to the moon right now!

Thankgod i have a lie in tomorrow its sunday the lords day!! thou shalt not work on the lords day??????? HEY what about us carers? yeh mum can clean house and cook for me its the lords day!

deep breaths Juddha one day this too shall pass!!!

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Don't ya just love the insults. My Mother delighted in everything that I did wrong. I think it is the loss of control. My Mother has been in assisted living for 2 weeks now and it is magnificent! My sister now gets the insults and I am the "golden" child right now. Now that sis has moved her to an assisted living near her she gets to be insulted, embarrassed and feel like she is living under a microscope.

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HI all, pleasantly surprised to see this thread is still going. Thank you for the resources, they have been helpful. I"ve stopped arguing with her because it never goes anywhere, simply saying, 'you might be right. ' Unless it is something that is critical to be addressed. Diversion has also become really useful. When I feel my blood pressure rise or she starts to perseverate on something, I basically say, "hey mom, look at that squirrel!" It's only a ;momentary break before she starts again, but it helps.
I'm trying not to reinforce the constant complaining .It really gets on my nerves but I usually say nothing and sometimes I just excuse myself and leave the room.
I do plan to talk with the doc but it's hard because I don't know exactly what the issue is, it's a continuation/worsening of weird lifelong behavior.
I love hearing your stories and how you are dealing with it. I am thankful to not have to deal with any kind of abusiveness on her part. If anything I'm the one who's sharp and edgy, here. Trying to smooth things out and go with the flow. It does help. I don't know how I'd react to someone putting me down in public or being abusive to me - not well, probably. That's a tough one. Never had to do this, but I'd probably turn to the person she just put me down in front of and say something like, "mom's got a touch of senility, I'm so sorry. She's been acting like this lately." Probably terrible advice, from someone who knows very little about how to do this... so you might want to skip it and take advice from the next person. ;-)

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Today my mother moved into her chosen senior housing. She didn't want me to go with her to choose which apartment, in case I would not share her enthusiasm or something like that. So today I saw what she chose for the first time. It's a nice new senior building but Mom chose the apartment that can only be accessed by two staircases, and hallways, or via elevator and then has to walk down THREE very long hallways. Mom is 93. Some days she can't walk across a small parking lot. I was furious but I didn't know how to respond! I have no power over her, and she is mean to me if I even venture an opinion: if I don't talk to her like a happy puppy dog, she says sarcastic and mean things to me. I hate being with her! She used be my best friend. It's so hard to take this!

Talk about irrational! Well the deed is done: i tried to hint at the long trek: I went and bought her a collapsible shopping cart to schlep her groceries and even that she scoffed at me for "wasting time"!

Is this the beginning of dementia? What will happen now?

She will probably have to move again to another apt if and when she wakes up, or will just die soon, or have to go to an ASL place or NH, so I decided, to let go of my opinion. It is totally not wanted anyways. She wants to live in delusion as long as she can I guess.
Any takes on this one?

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Oftentimes the only way to deal with irrationality is to do what the suspension of your motor card does when it hits bumps min the road, and that is roll with it?

It must not be taken personally, although it can be a challenge to reach the detachment from behaviour that is hurtful. However, it is the only way forward.

When people become irrational it is never from choice. It is a symptom of something else, and there seems to be no cure for it, although anxiolytics might have a calming effect.

People neither want to nor choose to live in delusional states. Delusuiins ar eimposed by a variety of causes, manym of them too obnscure to understand.

Again, do NOT take it personally. If you do you will end up in as big a mess as the person suffering from delusions.

People do not 'have' delusions; delusions 'have' them. They deserve our most profound understanding because most delusions are terrifying to the patient.

I wish you well. You may have to grow up fast to keep ahead of this one. :)

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Wow she really chose an inappropriate apartment but it does not sound like you can do anything without suffering from an outpouring of sarcasm. If it was me I would probably just back off for now, keep the peace and make your visits short. With that amount of walking something is going to happen sooner or later. I was just wondering if the people who run the apartments thought it was a good idea to give a 93 y/o an apartment that is so far for her to walk-shame on them for not suggesting something more appropriate but they are in it for the $$$.

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This series of posts reminded me of a situation on my first job - clerk typist for an import export company. The boss of our department was a very brilliant but "fussbudget" type and difficult to work for. Also very eccentric. He came from a very wealthy clan and so the company had to keep him happy. When his secretary retired, human resources frantically tried to replace her - a succession of top notch executive secretaries passed through - finally after the last one just went to lunch and never came back, the whole human resources department was summoned to the presence. It was made clear that Something Had To Be Done. After all, he knew there were secretaries out there - he saw them every day went he went to lunch at his club. So human resources had no excuse (they went pale at the thought that they were going to be told to kidnap one off the street). Well, I'll never know whether someone had a brilliant idea or whether fate saved our bacon. They hired a lovely young woman who knew nothing about secretarial work, but was an experienced child care worker. The boss was a happy camper, his secretary was given a secretary of her own (someone had to do the work) and everyone lived happy ever after.

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