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We didn't get the approval letter until September. We spent all her funds on pre pay Funeral, etc so we do not have the money to pay July and August. The NH keeps sending us bills -past due for July and August.
it seems that some states are becoming more desperate to shift the costs unto anyone..and are using these old laws.
hey..in Massachusetts you can be jailed if you don’t take care of your parents health care bills. But, surprisingly, it is still on the books that you can be put in stockades on the town common for repeatedly breaking the local laws.
Just as and aside...most states really need to pass “sunset” laws.
Depending on what state you live in, you may be able to submit those NH invoices to Medicaid to pay. In my situation they were willing to pay the 3 months of any medical bills prior to my MIL's actual approval. You should talk to the Medicaid/social services offices to see if this is possible. Also, even though my MIL was approved the NH had no Medicaid beds and so to prevent her from being moved to another facility, we opted to pay the difference for her private room. Fortunately there were 3 families to split this with but it went on for almost a year. I hope you can resolve the issue!
I handled my Moms application for Medicaid. I supplied everything needed. I was given 90 days to get them info needed, spend down and pick a facility. Since Mom had enough money for 2 months private pay, she was placed in LTC May 1st. She paid May and June privately. In that time I did everything Medicaid needed. I called, verified that they had what they needed. Told the caseworker I paid 2 months, he put in for Medicaid to start July 1st.
What does the approval letter say about when her Medicaid started. If September 1st then thats when payments started. If it says July 1st, then thats when it should have started. Without seeing the letter, its hard to tell you what is what.
There should be a caseworkers name on the letter. Call them and explain u thought Mom was approved for July on. That neither she nor you have the money to pay July and August. Maybe they can do a retro payment.
Those filial laws are rarely used now most states have adopted Medicaid. The income and responsibilities of the children is taken in consideration. So don't worry about it.
No need to worry about filial law. Your MIL is on Medicaid. And the case linked below is totally irrelevant and and not helpful all. It’s a totally diffident situation involving someone NOT on Medicaid and who left the country.
I cannot agree that it is totally irrelevant because I strongly suspect that the states more and more are going to take this type route if they can to save money.
That PA case is irrelevant. However, everyone needs to start now planning for old age care. States and federal government are both running deficits in the Medicaid program. Changes being planned where I live are going to make it more difficult to get Medicaid. The “free” nursing home is going to be harder to come by.
Bostongranny while it is truly wonderful your nephew is willing and wants to do this (and can) I would urge you to make sure it’s necessary before he does. Who did the Medicaid application? When you say she was approved the beginning of July is that when the application was put in or when you were actually told verbally it had been approved? I ask because while it’s possible it varies in some states (you may need to indicate the need on the application) my understanding has always been that Medicaid is retroactive to the application date once approved. NH often do the paperwork for their residents and have a very good idea if a patient is likely to qualify or not so plan on the retroactive payment. My guess is the retro payment comes separately from the monthly when that starts (Sept in your case it sounds like) so they are probably accounted for in different places. While they knew they would be paid, your MIL’s July and Aug bill wasn’t actually paid so they system generated bills, they have to so it may just be a clerical thing. Even if you did all the application paperwork, check with the NH before paying out of pocket, they will be able to tell you or at least track down what is happening internally and clarify things. Sometimes a place uses an outside billing service for instance but payments and Medicaid paperwork are done directly by NH office staff for instance.
Often Medicaid can do a retroactive payment (up to 90 days) for bills incurred before Medicaid begins if the client through application can show eligibility. Copies of the bills need to be submitted so that they know about it. Coordination between the LTC business office and Medicaid is what is needed.
This could be clerical error, such as applying the payment to the wrong account.
Make sure that they have not already been paid. You could create a situation that gets her kicked off Medicaid, if the facility has already been paid at some point that will get caught at which point they would credit her account, this would throw her over the asset limit for Medicaid. They will not just send the money back to the person that paid it.
So please don't let him pay until you find out for sure. If he is adamant ask him if he is prepared to continue to pay if she loses Medicaid because of the asset limit.
Did you contact the department of public welfare to determine why the approval is not retroactive to the time she ran out of funds? Did you keep receipts for expenses incurred during the spend down process? Was there any unusual expenditures that are causing a penalty fee? You are not responsible for the nursing home bill. I would also contact the ombudsmen to see if they could be of assistance. If an elder attorney assisted you with the application, I would contact them as well. If an elder attorney was not used, you still may want to consult with one to see 8f they could assist you with a resolution of this matter.
My mother’s was made retroactive. She was approved in July and I didn’t even know it. Well, In November, I received the approval notice stating that she was approved effective July 1st prior and I had stopped paying and Medicaid paid the back pay. You reminded me of this. You are spot on.
Contact Medicare/Medicaid Services and ask them what to do. It is still free number. Give them the Medicaid account number and just ask. They will tell you what to do.
Don’t let your nephew pay anything. Medicaid paid for all moms previous bills back to before the date we applied. They specifically told me not to pay any bills and submit them to my Medicaid caseworker. Paying them really complicates the account. Call the caseworker.
I think you should contact the nursing home and find out if they ever billed Medicaid for those 2 months. Medicaid won’t pay if the nursing home doesn’t bill them.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
but...there are some states that have laws making adult children responsible. Famous case in Pennsylvania a couple years back.
https://www.elderlawanswers.com/son-liable-for-moms-93000-nursing-home-bill-under-filial-responsibility-law-9873
it seems that some states are becoming more desperate to shift the costs unto anyone..and are using these old laws.
hey..in Massachusetts you can be jailed if you don’t take care of your parents health care bills. But, surprisingly, it is still on the books that you can be put in stockades on the town common for repeatedly breaking the local laws.
Just as and aside...most states really need to pass “sunset” laws.
I handled my Moms application for Medicaid. I supplied everything needed. I was given 90 days to get them info needed, spend down and pick a facility. Since Mom had enough money for 2 months private pay, she was placed in LTC May 1st. She paid May and June privately. In that time I did everything Medicaid needed. I called, verified that they had what they needed. Told the caseworker I paid 2 months, he put in for Medicaid to start July 1st.
What does the approval letter say about when her Medicaid started. If September 1st then thats when payments started. If it says July 1st, then thats when it should have started. Without seeing the letter, its hard to tell you what is what.
There should be a caseworkers name on the letter. Call them and explain u thought Mom was approved for July on. That neither she nor you have the money to pay July and August. Maybe they can do a retro payment.
Those filial laws are rarely used now most states have adopted Medicaid. The income and responsibilities of the children is taken in consideration. So don't worry about it.
He says he can afford it without it affecting him.
Thanks for the help. This is the best group ever!
Breathe!
This could be clerical error, such as applying the payment to the wrong account.
Make sure that they have not already been paid. You could create a situation that gets her kicked off Medicaid, if the facility has already been paid at some point that will get caught at which point they would credit her account, this would throw her over the asset limit for Medicaid. They will not just send the money back to the person that paid it.
So please don't let him pay until you find out for sure. If he is adamant ask him if he is prepared to continue to pay if she loses Medicaid because of the asset limit.
Call the caseworker.