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My mother has had multiple strokes, and has been in and out of mental hospitals, and was kicked out of a group home since. She has outbursts where she calls my 3 kids names, threatens us, etc. She forgets everything she does and says and then expects my children to want to be around her. One time, she thought we took her phone charger and put it in a bathroom drawer. I showed her it was a hair clipper cord, but she insisted we were lying. She became so distraught I took her to a crisis center to see if she needed her meds adjusted, I stayed the entire time until a nurse told me to leave. The crisis center transferred her to a hospital where she told them I dropped her off there because I didn't want her. They released her at 1 AM and called me and I went and got her. But because she told them I abandoned her, I had an Adult Protective Services investigator come to my home. Now, every time she gets upset, she threatens to tell people things that aren't true. Another time, she was using her cell phone when it stopped working, and it wouldn't turn back on even after I charged it, I tried everything, but I found out she told my sister that I broke it. I got her a new phone but she can't remember how to use it. I work from home and was on an important training call and she started sobbing extremely loudly from the other room because she couldn't remember how to use it. I'm exhausted and live in fear. I never know when or why she will be set off. She became very upset on my son's birthday because I told her she couldn't keep eating cupcakes after having two. I am applying for help from the agency for aging, but I don't think she will be approved because she's still able to dress herself most of the time etc. Her doctor wants home health to come out, pt, ot, psych nurse, multiple times a week. This is going to affect my work and I'm scared I'm going to be fired, and we will become homeless. My siblings refuse to help and I'm at my wit's end, what can I do?

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You have a choice, it is either her or you. I would choose you.

You have done all you can do, she will not get better. The next time she goes in the hospital, do not take her home, she will become a ward of the state and they will find her a place to live.

From what you describe she is beyond helping, don't destroy you or your family because of her.

Take care of you!
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Care giver abuse is wrong.. it is a thing that is not talked about as much as it should be. She should not treat you nor you children with disrespect or threatened to hurt you or your children. And honestly I think in centuries past this is why Inuits used to stick some of their old on the ice floats.
But I am of the opinion that it is our duty to care for our parents that (put food, clothes and roof over your head). This is the social contract we've had as Humans for eons.
So, I now have a few questions.
Why? Are your siblings not helping because it is their duty too.
Did the social contract get broken with them...?
If she really is as bad then someone needs to be the leader. That means you or a sibling needs to get the POA. Go get a lawyer. I believe you that she as gone off the rails. POA means you get to make the choices. I am all for keeping a elder family member at home as long as you can. But there are points when more help is need or do they need to go to some place better and safer for the care giver and the person needing the care.
And Yes in some states if you have been caring for your mom your legally responsible.
You need to talk to a lawyer.
So Yes your morally responsible to care for your family members.
An with a POA you get to make the choices that protects the whole family.
I wish you better days ahead. If it take a Village to raise a child, it takes a Village to care for a elder.
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Geaton777 May 2022
Valk77, the siblings (and the OP) have no "duty" to become indentured caregivers. She DOES have a duty to her children as a first priority over her mother. No one should be assumed into such a stressful, onerous responsibility as *this* would be immoral. No one is responsible for someone else's happiness. Is helping the mother merciful? Yes. But being forced into it just breeds resentment, mental health issues, and often an unsustainable financial burden on caregivers (mostly women) and their children . What is the morality and logic where helping 1 person results in collateral damage of 3 other people? The problem with "the village" concept is that the villagers weren't asked if they wanted to be involved.

"...with a POA you get to make the choices that protects the whole family " correct, and in this scenario the OPs mom should go into a facility so that she and her innocent and vulnerable children are protected.
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Be sure to videotape her antics, in case APS is called again.
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AngVirginia84: You cannot continue on in this dynamic. Something must be amended. Your mother will have to opt for facility living.
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If NONE of the advice given you will not work, you may have to do this: TELL HER IT IS NOT UP TO HER , that if she does not STOP being A DANGER to your family, you will MOVE and leave her there alone. If you have to forfeit your home and have it repossesed, so be it. Don't let her HAVE HER WAY. But first do try the other advice. Here in Riverside Ca we have an OFFICE ON AGING, There may be something like that where you live. You can ask for a counselor to come to your home to give you help , advice and referrals. Also there may be a Senior Center near you which contracts with a lawyer specializing in Elder law, who might give you one session for free and you can talk to him or her about this problem. Another thing you can do is contact Member Services at your mom's health plan and ASK if they have a SOCIAL WORKER who can come to your home and advise you on what can be done. Lastly, DO NOT BE AFRAID of her accusations. She has no proof but YOU CAN HAVE PROOF if you either VIDEO the times she is crazy acting and talking, or JOURNAL and keep TRACK OF THE TIMES she does that and be SPECIFIC in detailing what is happening. It will take you more energy but will keep you out of jail if that is what you are afraid of. Also you can look into senior housing. If she is living by herself, she will have to be responsible for herself. If senior housing is not what she needs, the Social Worker in the Office on Aging can suggest Assisted living or something else. Here in Riverside, we have Special Transportation. I get a bus which comes right to my door to take me to doctor visits and so forth. I use a mobility scooter, and that bus has a ramp. So, there is NO EXCUSE why she can't be on her own.
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karenchaya Apr 2022
I wish you luck because you HAVE TO PUT YOUR CHILDREN FIRST.
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So sorry you’re going through this without much support. I too was in a similar situation. My advice is that you now have to become mom’s mom( literally). Take charge!! If it means moving her to a facility, whether living assisted or nursing home, then do so!! We are only human and can only take so much. Don’t even worry about what others may say, you are protecting your “peace” also protecting your children. Except help from whomever will help in a positive way! If you’re able to get her in a home just don’t forsake her, visit her and take her out for outings. Dementia and Alzheimer’s walk hand in hand for the most part( it’s a deminising of well balanced faculties). It’s really hard to see this happening to them. The old adage says “ once an adult and twice a child” is true for more of us than we can to acknowledge. 💕. Wishing you encouragement throughout this journey.
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Two words, nursing home. I had a similar incident with my older sister who kept calling APS making up false reports on me. I was the one taking care of my younger disabled sister. My OS (older sibling sister) was mad because I was still in the family home. This kept on for the entire three years I lived at home. Finally, when my sister was placed in a group home, I didn't even get a thank you from my dad or any of the other sibs. I got reprimanded, gossiped about and etc.

While I was living at home, I lost a job. Then I landed a new job and had to take time off to go to these meetings with these APS folks and other people who were involved. It was a real nightmare. I had other responsibilities like work, school and raising a child. One thing I can say about APS is that they can be pretty stupid at times. Instead of getting the contacts involved with a patient's care and gaining access to medical records as proof of said illnesses, they keep investigating the caregiver.

In your case, I would start looking for a nursing home for mom. I don't mean to sound redundant, but sometimes it comes down to your life or theirs. It is not worth losing your job over, so do the necessary thing and start protecting yourself.
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Memory Care - read Lymie61 below for clarity.
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If your siblings had a say so in the matter, would they all agree to put mom in a NH or other facility care? If the answer to that is yes, they are not going to help her. They have probably made that clear. You might try another approach with them (last ditch effort) and ask them to help YOU. I will add, if you are working from home you're siblings are probably still at employable ages, too -- they may not be able to help out during work hours for same fear of losing job as you have.

Have you talked to her doctor about the outbursts, memory issues, and that you are trying to work from home, raising small children? Since he is offering you a little in home medical assistance, definitely ask for the psych nurse to visit. You would then have some documentation that may address her mental status and avoid having to deal with APS in the future. Medical record would help you out. The visits from other in home people could be tried after psych nurse - it's very possible her having some visitors can have a positive effect for her. On the other hand, it might set her off...but at least you would have medical people there who would witness and document for you.

You should also talk to her doctor about best way to get her to rehab with a move to a nursing facility. (Much easier to go from hospital to rehab to NH than from home in most cases) Just tell him everything you said here and let him know her mental status, your kids and your job just aren't working together anymore and that you have tried hard. Some drs are like caretakers and help you, while others are like non-caretaker siblings and will never see/understand your job.
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I think you know pretty much what you need to do. If the hospital ever tries to push back, let them know that SHE is abusing your children and you need to give them back their safe home.
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I think you should make provisions to have her put into care facility now as this will send you and your family to breaking point I am going through the same just now and it’s really stressful to the point it’s affecting my work so please don’t let it mentally destroy you all good luck
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The next time she has a tantrum or threatens you or your kids you need to call an ambulance to take her to the hospital, tell them you are afraid for your safety and the safety of your kids, you know she can’t control herself but they aren’t finding the right medication combo and you can’t have her back in your home. Hopefully they will send her for a residential psyc eval but wether they do or not they have to find a safe and appropriate place for her. No matter how much they tell you she is fine to go home now or how much she claims you are abandaning her you need to stick to your guns, for the safety of your children and the hopeful rescuing of their relationship with their grandmother she can not come back to your home. Then if you feel up to it in the hospital and once she is placed go visit, visit as often as you want. You aren’t abandoning her you are taking the best care of her you can because she needs more professional care than you can give. You are protecting your children who need you to protect them even more than she does and you are trying to foster a path to a better relationship and memories for your children and their grandmother. When you feel comfortable and that it’s time they can visit her too in her new home. This will be hard but you need to do it for her, for your children and for yourself.
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It seems like it is time for your mother to make a memory care unit her permanent home,
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Her medical condition includes a damaged brain, creating a need for 24 hour care in a safe setting, with trained staff that can try to keep her safe, clean, medicated, and with basic needs met. She has no safety awareness, no ability to control her actions, is at risk of harm to self and others. She can not accurately assess the situation and choose appropriate responses. For example, could not recognize meaning of a smoke alarm, would not know what to do if a pipe burst, cannot identify 911 as correct number/cannot dial phone, etc.
She needs skilled nursing care available at all times. She is not able to benefit from PT, OT, etc. due to psychiatric symptoms. She likely needs to be in a locked unit, even once she is stabilized on psychiatric medications.
None of her needs can be met well enough in the community for her safety.
You and your children need to be safe in your own home, and she cannot return.

As a community nurse and former APS worker, this is a situation that would 'have my hair on fire', as the saying goes. You and your children could benefit from counseling. The anxiety of living with her has caused fear for all of you, and you deserve care and comfort.
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You sound as though your closest hospitals are particularly adept at threatening you. If they say again that they will “report me and I could be arrested for abandonment”, your answer is ‘Go right Ahead’! Any investigation is going to help you. And ‘abandonment’ is a crime I haven’t heard of anyway. Just stick to your guns and refuse to take her back. The stronger you sound, the quicker the hospital will get the message.
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don't bother with agency for aging because they're not experienced caregivers ...they simply took a quick course and never met anyone with behavior/alzheimer's/dementia. They don't even know how to change diapers or operate a lift/transfer machine. You have to go with your mother everywhere so she doesn't make up untrue stories about you. Explain to whoever she told what her diagnosis is and what meds she takes. Do you have POA & health proxy? You have to set these idiots straight right from the start...do not let them have this label hanging over your head that you abandon/abuse your mother. Try to get her into memory care facility or nursing home. If you take her to ER, then say you can no longer take care of her and if they give you a hard time, just say it would be an "Unsafe Discharge" Hugs
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Isthisrealyreal Apr 2022
I found my local counsel on aging to be tremendously helpful.
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You’ve done all you can do, be firm and tell social workers that you can’t do this. It’s their job to make sure she has a place to go. Not yours. When you look at it that way, it makes a difference, doesn’t it?
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Your mother needs to be placed in a care facility. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Your first priority has to be to your kids and yourself. So please forget about PT, OT, and psych nursing because they aren't going to help anything. Your mother cannot receive the level of care she needs at your house anymore. She needs care facility placement. Please don't get talked into homecare because it's not going to work for your situation. I've worked homecare for almost 25 years. Trust me when I tell you that when a person is as bad off and out of it as you describe her here, homecare will be no help.
Please speak to her social worker (I'm sure she has one) and insist that they find her care facility placement.
You can still help her by being her advocate.
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Scampie1 Apr 2022
BurntCaregiver, I agree with you 100% here. I've worked cases like this, and the home care agency continues to milk the client. I have told those folks in the office what was happening, and they were dismissive to me. I had been locked out of a patient's home because she forgot the time of my arrival and didn't get out of bed. It is so sad when you see this type of thing happening.
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Below in a reply you revealed:

"In response to my siblings, neither will help whatsoever...because she was abusive when we were young."

You allowed your mother into the inner sanctum where your children are. You didn't see the boundary. Have you considered seeing a therapist yourself so that you can identify and create healthy boundaries? Through her abuse, your mother made it a point to destroy your ability to do this yourself. She's still doing it and now you're allowing your children to be exposed to the same treatment. You won't be able to "fix" your mother or her situation or make her happy. You're not responsible for her happiness. May you gain clarity and then peace in your heart.
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AngVirginia84 Apr 2022
I have had therapy. I know and have known that I cannot "fix her". Unfortunately, I did not know my rights and was told by multiple hospitals that if I did not allow her to come to my home after discharge, they would report me and I could be arrested for abandonment. I am just learning that I have rights in this situation, so I really appreciate everyone's suggestions, advice, and kind words.
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Ang, you can not be arrested for saying you can not take care of her or safely meet her care needs. She is not a minor, nor has she been legally declared incompetent with you made her guardian, those are the only 2 things that would make you responsible for her.

The term unsafe discharge is what you will say when they want to send her back to your house. "Sorry, I am not picking her up. She has more care needs then can be met safely in my home and her coming back here is an unsafe discharge."

Let her rant and threaten. Unless you actually abuse her, you have nothing to worry about.

APS has to respond to complaints, period. Mandated reporters have to report complaints, period. Don't be fearful of this truth, it could work in your favor. You can say this is nothing compared to what she does in the privacy of my home and it is no longer safe for my children or her and I can no longer meet her care needs, period.

Listen, hospitals are great for making BS threats about what will happen if we don't dance to their tune. They are only trying to NOT do their jobs, if they can dump her back on you, they don't have to find a facility to meet her needs. Ignore them and repeat, She can't come back to my home, it is not safe as her needs CAN NOT be met here. She needs a facility and if the state needs to get emergency guardianship, that's okay.!!

I found that getting myself educated to my rights and speaking with confidence changed how I was dealt with. When I spoke with obvious confidence the hospital started doing their job.

Spend some time asking questions here, we have all been through the hospital nonsense. Research your state laws on POA and use that information to say, she won't assign and I am not willing to accept the responsibility of being her legal representative.

Telling the hospital no is always met with pressure from them, so know this and know that you are not legally obligated to be your moms caregiver. You CAN SAY NO!

You can do this! Heads up, it will be hard and the hospital will threaten you, she will threaten you, APS will show up again but, you don't have to take her back in to your home.

Great big warm hug filled with strength. You got this!
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AngVirginia84 Apr 2022
Thank you so much, this is really helpful!
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Below in a reply you revealed:

"In response to my siblings, neither will help whatsoever...because she was abusive when we were young."

And why would they want to help her? You must now recognize that you have a dysfunctional co-dependent relationship with her. You are under no moral, ethical or legal obligation to care for such a person. I'm so sorry you're in this situation. Keep working with social services. The next time she acts out take her to the hospital and refuse to pick her up. The hospital will hound you but you just stop answering their calls, just keep saying "no", that she's an "unsafe discharge" and DO NOT go get her. DO NOT become her PoA. You can't do it, you should not do it and you must protect your family and livelihood. Let the county acquire guardianship of her.
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AngVirginia84 Apr 2022
Thank you, I will.
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" I took her to a crisis center to see if she needed her meds adjusted, I stayed the entire time until a nurse told me to leave. The crisis center transferred her to a hospital where she told them I dropped her off there because I didn't want her." If the crisis center knew you brought her in, how did the hospital think you abandoned her? That is crazy and APS should have called the CC to confirm you brought her in! I hate that they thought you were at fault! And calling you at 1 am is nuts.. I would have said I couldn't leave my kids home alone a that time in the morning. How did you come to be caring for Mom? And how did the other kids get out of the deal? If her Dr thinks she needs all that help, I think you could refuse to bring her home next time.. unsafe discharge and all that!
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AngVirginia84 Apr 2022
It was the hospital that she told that to, I'm not sure why they reported me when the crisis center transferred her via ambulance. I'm terrified that if I take her to the hospital and then tell them that I will be reported for abandonment and arrested
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Despite her condition, she has learned in just one instance that you’re gonna be the one getting in trouble, plus she gets to go home with you.

So it’s worth a try to tell her that you need quiet time during work, and to corral behavior that scares the children, if you want to give her a second chance with you.

Or you could take her to the er, indicate she is an unsafe discharge, and there are children in the home. They will have to keep her until she is placed in an snf.
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AngVirginia84 Apr 2022
I've tried speaking with her. If she gets upset about something, there is no reasoning with her. Again, if I take her to the hospital and refuse to bring her home, could I be arrested?
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Next time she threatens you or any one in the house you call 911 and inform the dispatcher that you are being threatened and that you feel unsafe.
Next time she is taken to the hospital you talk to the Hospital Social Worker and make it VERY clear that she can NOT be discharged back home that it is unsafe for you and other members of the family.
Is anyone POA for health or financial affairs? If she is not competent it is probably to late for her to assign POA. Someone would have to become her Guardian. If this is something that you will not do then another family member, if they refuse she would become a Ward of the State and the State would become her Guardian. (you may want to discuss these options with an Elder Care Attorney)
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AngVirginia84 Apr 2022
No one is POA and I am afraid to become POA and become any more responsible.
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