There has GOT to be someone dealing with a situation somewhat similar to mine. I pray someone has got some good advice for me because you really must be experienced with NPD to truly understand what I'm dealing with. Background:
My 64 y/o mom is newly disabled due to a stroke and is in a nursing home. I moved states to be close to her.
My mom had lost her home, and shortly thereafter went to stay with her narcissistic sister temporarily. My mom had extremely extremely high blood pressure (known by the family) but due to mental issues fears doctors and always refused to see one. With the stress of losing her home, she had a stroke a few weeks later while over her sister's house. Unfortunately the sister (my aunt), a nurse of several decades, did not take her to the hospital when she first saw her stroke symptoms occurring and (purposely) waited 4-5 days to take her in (as she knew the time delay would mean an increase in the severity of my mom's condition).
Since moving states to be close to my mom's nursing home, I have been reminded of the dysfunction between my mom and aunt (and in my very small immediate family altogether in general). My mom has her own issues I've always had to deal with because she has had 'severe' trauma at a young age (and my aunt was around when it occurred so they are "trauma bonded" fyi), my mom has PTSD, depression/anxiety, bipolar and is a hoarder. My only sibling is estranged from us now and has ignored all of my attempts to request help from him from the moment she had her stroke. I respect his decision due to the complexity of the family dysfunction.
My dilemma - I blocked my aunt about 4 months ago. She is now attempting to hoover through others. She has contacted a friend or two of my mom's now, gaining access to their numbers somehow (she doesn't know these friends), and has been asking for my address from them and spreading lies about me to them and the nursing home staff. She also went up to the nursing home attempting to gain information from the nursing home staff about me and also the state of my and my mom's relationship (spreading convoluted versions of those stories to the friend of my mom). I have told the nursing supervisor to please retrain the staff not to have these hours-long conversations about my mom and our family because it's inappropriate and there are dysfunctional issues going on that require they remain professional meaning staying out of personal family related conversations with said aunt whenever she comes up there.
Things are getting so stressful now because of things my aunt is doing (despite me having blocked her from my phone) due to her attempting to establish new "flying monkeys" both at the nursing home and with my mothers' friends that I want to restrict my aunt's access to my mom altogether. I've blocked her from my mom's phone, however, can anyone advise is there some way for me to legally keep her away from visiting the nursing home? I will go up there to discuss this with the social worker, but they are extremely 'not' helpful with anything at all to date, so I don't think they'll be able to advise me other than "just tell your aunt not to visit".
I do not want to make any direct contact with my aunt as I want to hold strong to going completely "NC" (no contact) with her. However, I need to protect my mom and put up additional barriers right now; this is a critical time of healing for her and she keeps getting stressed out, distracted, etc by things my aunt is saying and doing. My aunt is disrupting things and causing a lot of mental stress for my mom (and bringing others into things) but I'm at a loss as to the best way/steps to take to put up additional boundaries.
Any advice is sincerely appreciated.
You will be in my thoughts, and I hope you are able to get what ever resolution works best for you and your mom in the end, and ultimately lose the stress of dealing with your family. You sound like you have a very good head on your shoulders.
Your mother is still young, and competent. She will be fine.
Enjoy your life.
I stated this above in another post today, but I believe my mom is incompetent.
She’s legally competent, yeah, but as her daughter I believe she is not capable of making decisions for herself. She hasn’t paid bills or worked in years. She has ptsd, bipolar, depression/anxiety, ocd and surely an undiagnosed personality disorder or two. (She has been hospitalized before and just exhibits abnormal behaviors in general from mild paranoia to other things I can’t get into.)
In short, maybe she should be declared incompetent. It is not something I have approached for consideration as this first year post stroke has been so life changing for me too and I’ve had so much to manage/tend to. My main point is she can’t make good decisions for herself and she never really has IMO. She certainly can’t fend for herself now as someone who is immobile.
Have you thought about no Medicare in another country? One hospitalization can bankrupt both of you.
"In most situations, Medicare won't pay for healthcare or supplies you get outside the U.S. The term “outside the U.S.” means anywhere other than the 50 states of the U.S., the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Northern Mariana Islands."
"If you are a U.S. citizen, you may receive your Social Security payments outside the U.S. as long as you are eligible for them. However, there are certain countries to which we are not allowed to send payments."
Your idea sounds like pure chaos to me. Think about a different therapist at this point who sees the big picture here, the npd, hoarding, etc. You'd be biting off WAY more than you can chew to attempt to move to a different country w a very sick mother and live in caregivers! It's a frightening thought to me.
Some things can't be fixed by us daughters. I say none of this in a mean spirited way at all. Please put on your own oxygen before you attempt to prevent another from suffocating.
Please know that as the daughter of my mother, and the niece of my aunt, that I well versed in chaos. And I am in chaos now so please understand I know that a task as huge as moving abroad with a sick parent is not to be taken lightly. I eat, breathe and sleep this decision every single day and have been researching options for care both here and in the US for over 6 months straight so far and continue to do so. I even have someone abroad who is consulting with me on these things, to include but not limited to the insurance side of things.
I am well aware that my mother would have to be well insured prior to leaving the US, with an global policy by a major carrier that covers her both in the country we move to, as well as in the US. The insurance piece is important for her to have anywhere, including in the US so, yes, I have more than considered that. I have several policies already in mind along with the quotes. I wouldn't even consider moving her if obtaining and keeping insurance was not possible. She doesn't have Medicare (she's not 65 yet) or even Medicaid (yet; it's pending) here in the US at the moment and it's clear how much turmoil being uninsured has been as it's part of the reason she's in the horrible facility she's in now honestly.
The social security statement you quoted is not relevant to our situation due to the treaty between the US and Spain. She is eligible to receive her social security payments abroad and this has been confirmed with the Social Security Administration. Again, I would never just up and hop on a plane without checking into something so important. I may not have just up and 'spilled out' all of the details behind 6+ months of research on my end, however, I will confirm that yes, it also included a ton of research regarding eligibility to bring my mother's social security payments with her.
One hospitalization "could" bankrupt us here "in the US" so this is true in any country when you are not properly insured...correct? If she had any money, she would have been bankrupted after the stroke last year more than likely; that's for sure considering she had (still has) no insurance. That was a 6 figure hospitalization. The question here is which system is she more than likely to be bankrupted under? The system we have here, or the one abroad? Please know I've given the utmost of consideration to both systems, the complexity of navigating them, the cost/s associated with both, the quality of providers (particularly from a neuro perspective given her medical background now), etc. etc. I am rational and methodical in my approaches to any major decision in life and this one is no different. I cannot guarantee she will end up coming with me, however, if I'm considering doing it, it is for good reason.
My therapist is not the only one who believes this is the best option. All of closest friends do too. But then again, they know how much sweat and tears I've put into researching, what options I've laid out that I have here vs abroad, the condition/treatment my mother is getting at her current facility, the help I "won't" have from anyone here in the US, the differences between the US system and the system abroad and so on and so forth. Of course, they believe the "Option 2" I laid out in the earlier post above is the 'next best' option but that leaving altogether right now has the most pro's. Trust me, I know, it's very hard to see all of those as an outsider/3rd party. Instead it probably sounds like one big massive life mistake, however, again, please consider that this is been far from an overnight decision made with no planning, and 'if' it happens, it won't happen overnight but would rather occur over months of me transitioning over lives before ever physically moving her.
I just read your profile.
So, for starters, DO NOT even consider bringing your mom home. Your mother has a lot of health issues.
I understand that neither of you like her nursing home if it’s not up to par. Can you look into selecting another facility? Is that possible for you to do? How did you find the home that she is in now?
I don’t think I would risk traveling with her.
You say that you are interested in traveling with your job. Do you know know how much free time that you will have to spend on overseeing your mother’s care? How much time will you need to adjust to your new life in a different country? Will you be able to do both of these things?
So right now I am looking into other nursing homes, board and care facilities and well as assisted living facilities here in the US. However, I have also priced nursing homes and assisted living facilities abroad as well as hourly agency care vs. a live-in-the home caretaker abroad.
In summary, I am looking into 'all' options at the moment. Whatever ends up being the best option for both of us will be what I end up going with truthfully. However, right now I am leaning towards taking the offer to move abroad because I'd been wanting to do this for years but never was able to figure out 'how'. This offer came out of practically nowhere and just kinda 'fell' in my lap. However, the other important thing to know is that it came after my company did a layoff of US only employees, stating that our work is moving moreso to Europe (which is where I've been wanting to work from). It is challenging times as I work for a massive company that I never imagined would start laying off US workers, so needless to say that I am a bit concerned now. I am very fortunate that I was not impacted earlier this year however now I am not so sure another 'round' won't happen to the remaining US people in my department.
I want to bring my mom with me because I still want to oversee her care and I do not see how I can do it from another country at all. Spain has an excellent healthcare system, ranked even higher than the US. They have "au pairs" so I could find a live-in full time caregiver there for much cheaper and way easier than here (I have been looking for a full time live-in caregiver here in the US for now almost 1 year without any success).
As far as the adjustment, I don't know how much time it will take for me to adjust. It is too early to tell however, I have been in discussions with my company about this for a few months now, and it is possible that instead of just up and moving overnight, they will allow me to travel back and forth for a while/several months, while I find a place to live and set it up for mom to live in with me and get the caregiver in place. In other words, it would not be an overnight night but rather a time of back and forth while I transition things until I'm ready to then move her.
If a facility abroad is better for her (than living with me abroad) she 'could' end up in a facility near me abroad from the get go, but not likely because I prefer her living with me. I'd consider the facility abroad only if her health condition declined and required it.
This is a huge huge decision and I acknowledge that. Through last year I did not have to 'truly' consider moving abroad as it was just a pipe dream, but now, with everything that is going on with my job, I can either choose to give all of this a go knowing that if it doesn't work out, I'd have to move both of us back somewhere here to the US. I tend to think that if that happened, at least I could say "I tried". My options right now are :
1. Take the move offer through work, go abroad and bring mom.
2. Take the move offer through work, go abroad and leave mom in the US.
3. Stay in the US here near mom and don't take the relocation offer through work.
3 is probably the worst option because I cannot continue living in this state to be near her (I just dislike it that much), plus with the layoffs I now feel a bit at risk at the moment as a US based employee, plus I do feel I will have serious regret not taking an abroad option that I'd been trying to figure out how to do for yearssss.
If I went the option 2 route, I'd really need her to be in a better facility by the time I left the US, and moving facilities is a slow process as (to answer your question), she's currently in a 'charity' bed offered by the state due to having no insurance & her Medicaid is still pending. Her options for another facility, when Medicaid comes through, will still be 'low quality' IMO. Won't feel good at all leaving her knowing this.
You know what I would do, get Mom out of that facility and place her in another one. If Mom told the SW she did not want to see her sister than Sis should have been told ur Mom did not want to see her. SW helping you with Medicaid and saying no, your better off doing it yourself because the SW probably would not do it in a timely manner and Medicaid does have a deadline. And, staff should not be sharing Moms info with anyone who is not on HIPPA paperwork. As her Medical POA ur the only one they should be talking to and if u need a doctor or more to say she is incompetent to make it effective, then they can't talk to you either. You need to be put on her HIPPA forms.
You need to get Durable POA even if she has no assets.
If Mom is under the asset and income levels and has no assets, it should be fairly easy to apply for Medicaid. See if you can talk to a caseworker in person. Moms did the application with me and then gave me a list of things I needed to do. In my State your only allowed 90 days from date of application to spend down, get info requested to the caseworker and find a place.
Really, find her another facility and when you do, DON'T TELL ANYONE WHERE SHE IS. Maybe find one as far away from where she is now but u can easily get to.
I think it will be very hard taking her with you but I also think where there is a will there is a way. Will Mom be able to fly? Is she incontinent? Will the stress be too much for her? I don't think you should give up a chance of a lifetime. But I also don't think Mom should be left where her sister can get to her. Maybe you can find a nice Board and Care willing to take her SS. Medicaid may pay for it. You really need to talk to Medicaid.
I think your Mom's problems stem from your Aunts abuse and Narcissistic personality. And like you say she was born with a problem and your Aunt played on that. You have some big decisions to make here. But the one thing I know I would do, is move her as far away from her sister and family as you can.
The daughter is already POA but cannot use it because the mother is competent.
The mother is in charge of making her own decisions. She is my DAUGHTER'S age. She is YOUNG.
She should be allowed to make her decisions regarding her sister, when and if she wishes to see her or not, and all else.
To me this seems a simple question with a simple answer. Ask Mom what she wants to do, let her do it. Resign the POA. Step out of the jungle and avoid what our OP calls the "flying monkeys" or stay there and swing along.
When my mom had her stroke I was in another country. I flew in to the US immediately and the first day I was there in the hospital, my mom proceeded to tell me how my aunt requested her social security number to claim my mom on her taxes. My aunt had told my mom not to mention it to me. Mind you, my mom and I have a joint credit card upon which all of my mom’s expenses I’d been paying for for years. And everyone knows I pay for my mother’s expenses because my mom hadn’t worked in years. And I’d never even thought to claim my mom myself on my own taxes.
I quietly reported my Aunt to the IRS. And I have requested a pin for my mom’s social security number so she can’t be claimed by my aunt hopefully ever again. This is the tip of the iceberg in terms of things my aunt does; just way too much toxicity and having to spend time dealing with crappy situations like this that my aunt creates when I need to prioritize caring for my mom. It’s exhausting. But I was sickened to know she’d do this; when I think of the things I could have used the money for that my aunt illegally received through claiming my mom (I.e., my mom needs an electric wheelchair now and I don’t have the money for it)..it enflames me.
But yeah, I am not opposed to getting the police involved if it comes to that. I pray that putting up boundaries by going no contact and moving away solves these issues.
The reply button has now disappeared from your posts for me. Sorry; I haven't quite figured out why it seems the reply button disappears from people's posts after maybe 2 or so posts by them, leaving me unable to reply directly to them anymore. A bit puzzling for me as a newer member. Anywho, you had asked if I have any friends or a social life.
Admittedly, I have very few friends. A little background about myself is I have pretty bad social anxiety; it's impacted me since I was a child. I also have my own depression and general anxiety issues. I have been in therapy for many years but still do have trouble finding many things I'm interested in as somewhere in maybe my late 20s or early 30s I simply lost interest in many many things in life in general that I used to like, and have kinda just been 'here' ever since..with no true/real understanding of anything that brings me much joy anymore. Travel is my main love however and is one thing I can think of that brings me joy (with a rare/occasional interest in photography/videography). I have never been able to figure out if maybe my issue is moreso along the lines of dysthymia or not because the depression has been so very very longstanding for me at this point.
Also, I've always been socially awkward and as I get older I've become more aware/bothered by it so I tend to avoid gatherings and being around people I don't know in social situations is really really quite fear-inducing for me. On top of all of that, I used to work out but since moving due to the stroke I don't anymore and have gone from a size 6 to borderline size 12 now in less than a year, so further reason why I hate leaving the house as I can't fit anything anymore and just really dislike looking in the mirror let alone letting other people see me out and about.
Lastly, I have been struggling with fatigue for so long now; I don't know if its part of the depression but I feel it is. I have a lot of trouble getting dressed most days and I thank God every time I'm able to leave the house and pick my mom up/take her out because those are the days I get dressed and actually see the sun/get outside. I've been working remote for 6 years now so I've become fully accustomed to what is now a 100% hermit life.
One of my best friends, she is like a sister, lives here in the state I'm in. I rent her house from her. It's been one of the biggest blessings having her 20 minutes away from me. She got married right after I moved here and her hubby got diagnosed with stage IV cancer. There are many many very serious things going on with that situation with my best friend right now as well so I'm trying hard to find balance between my own life situation with my mom and being there for her although I feel like I'm failing her because I often don't have the energy to really be there in the way that I should. She's my only friend here in this state. I have 2 best friends in the state I moved from; one I talk to almost every day and the other, I've known for decades but is now moving a bit further away to prepare for retirement.
Sometimes I do wonder if my mom living with me would be ok since I have my own struggles. Other times I recall how whenever my mom used to visit, it gave me a reason to get dressed and to go places, etc. (and did the same for her b/c like me, she would often not leave the house). So in certain ways being under the same roof during visitations used to help us both a lot IMO. On the other hand I totally agree with you that its not healthy to become so enmeshed in your parent's issues that you decline mentally as a result. It's an excellent point and concern.
For my mom, my plan was to purchase international health insurance coverage that would apply in Spain and in the US using my mom's SSDI. I would likely have to keep said insurance even once obtaining local insurance in Spain as right now I expect that the 'local insurance' options may not provide her with enough coverage fyi.
I agree that moving abroad with my mom would indeed be a monumental task.
You asked if going "no contact" with my aunt would ensure that my mom is no contact. I agree it will not.
You asked if I could block my aunt on my mom's phone. I have. However, the block only blocks my aunt from doing the contact. My mom can still contact my aunt.
I agree that a move has a better chance of succeeding in terms of less or no contact and trouble with aunt as well; whether the move ends up being abroad or not honestly.
Thank you for the virtual hugs by the way.
It's her life, stroke or not.
I get that the two sisters may have a difficult, unhealthy or even dangerous relationship.
I get the OP wishes to care for her Mother.
But I don't get where the boundaries are in this family.
It seems like one big soup. The soup will continue to simmer along, everyone lives mixed in together. Unless someone jumps out (like the brother did).
Some families do indeed need to move cities or even countries to find their boundaries. To define where one person ends & another begins...
Do you really want to be living Mom's & your Aunt's life?
Or live your own?
Anyways, I didn't know my Aunt had NPD until I moved states last year. Honestly, all I can say about that is it was like God revealed it to me overnight. And I believe it happened so I could learn about it and make some important decisions. And I have. I never thought I'd make a 'no contact' decision with anyone, let alone my aunt. But now I know it's the best/healthiest thing to do.
To answer your question, I don't believe there are boundaries in this family. Because there never have been. My aunt is now the self appointed 'matriarch' which kinda happened once my grandparents passed, and everyone just does what she says/leans in on her supposed instruction and 'goes along' with her. But not so much anymore as that quickly dwindled after my grandparents passed, with time. My brother's officially estranged from my mom since the stroke (he was already 95% estranged from her prior to it). My aunt has now been reaching out to/contacting him relentlessly fyi (eye roll). It's clear she is working to alienate my mother from any support including support from her own children. It's disgusting to experience first hand (she's told me a LOT of negative things my my mom has supposedly said about me in the hallways of the hospital when my mom had just gotten admitted [!]), but she will not succeed in alienating me from my mom.
I had an uncle that was part of my small family and he strangely actually purposely went no contact 3 years go before I knew what no contact was. He didn't even respond to my postcards about my mom, his sister, having a stroke. I honestly think it has something to do with my aunt to this day.
Now I, a person who has always tolerated my aunt and been a neutral party that always allowed her to verbally abuse me the way my aunt did her children (bc my grandmother did it to my aunt and mom), am standing up to put my foot down. This really started 2 years ago after my aunt did something unacceptable (she found out someone in the family abused me [in you know what way], so she started trying to 'innocently' out of nowhere send pictures of said person to me, knowing what happened and that no one in the family speaks of/to that person and never has in decades). Ever since then, I'd been a bit 'done' with her but since moving states, there is absolutely no way I will put up with my mom's dysfunction 'and' my aunt's.
So now here I am..not only did I go NC w/aunt, but I recently cut off a few family members on social media that were once the only 1-2 family members I was close to outside of my mom (they are close to my aunt). It's sad but I feel it's right..for now. They haven't contacted me 1 time since the stroke and it hurts too much to even see their faces on social media knowing I'm baring all of this alone. Oh well..so much for so called family. It'll all be ok/work out in the end.