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I would think that even if they have enough assets that Medicaid wouldn't otherwise be required but the wife takes the money such that the husband is now left impoverished, this wouldn't go over well with Medicaid and she would have to answer for it.
Is there any chance your mom's panic & actions are because she sees some issues within herself thus dreading the same dementia is happening to her - her accumulating of money in her name, the fear & panic, the resistance to seeing therapists, the self-centredness she displays & her narrow minded actions could all be early signs of dementia
Even if it isn't you could say someone [me] said they thought she was showing signs of dementia & the only way to prove she isn't is to be tested by the dr & therapists! - maybe see a lawyer with her as part of this? - tell her that now someone outside the family has raised the issue her tests will also allow her driver's license to be valid longer - what ever it takes!
I know you don't need more on your plate but your description just rang a bell & I hope I am wrong however just getting her tested alone means that he should be tested alone at same time - try for different place & let a sibling/other family member go with mom while you go with dad
I do know of a woman who divorced a man with early onset Alzheimer's, but he is in a nice facility and they apparently had money enough for both of them. She is still working, and I heard she had remarried (they were in their early 60s). A lot of people criticized her for this, but as the former caregiver/wife of a man who had vascular dementia, I think she was right to pursue her own happiness. My husband died of massive stroke about 5 years after his diagnosis, and although I felt grief remembering all the good years we had, I was relieved to be free.
It sounds as though your mother thought that by taking Dad's name off everything it would be *hers* to spend as she wished especially if she divorced him. Well she is in for or has had a very rude awakening. Medicaid or a divorce will take care of that. One way or another dad has to be removed from that situation but I don't know how if all parties give in to Mom's abuse. Do you think Mom would agree to Dad entering some kind of facility? He is obviously still highly functional so would do well in some kind of Assisted Living. Are you able to visit when mom is out? This is clearly elder abuse but Dad is too afraid to stand up to Mom. Do you think Mom would agree to going away for a few days alone for *respite*? If you plan carefully you could get everything accomplished including moving Dad in a few days assuming he is willing. Trouble is he is used to asking "how high" when Mom tells him to jump. Old habits are hard to break after 50+ years. i can only send thug and wish you the best of luck. A break could come if Dad needs to go to the hospital for any reason.
Not sure how to phrase this so please forgive me if I say it wrong.
When the time comes and your Dad passes on, your mother will have to account for the fact she took his name off accounts without his being "aware" of it. I have seen that happen and the monies that are supposed to be inherited must be returned.
My DH & I have reciprocal wills - there is no need to take him off any of our accounts as this would leave him vulnerable should I predecease him.
Your mother may have been trying to do the right thing to protect herself from becoming impoverished when her husband needs very expensive long term care. But I doubt very much that she had the guidance of an Elder Law attorney. Medicaid counts her money and his money as money available for his care -- it doesn't really matter whose name it is in. Divorce may affect that, but Medicaid looks at all transactions for the last five years. Medicaid also allows the community spouse to preserve some of the assets to avoid impoverishment. It is too bad she didn't have good counsel at the time she was making these decisions.
I feel sorry for your mom. She has been placed in a very frightening and stressful situation. Of course it is not your dad's fault that he has dementia and she shouldn't be taking it out on him, but I do understand the stress she is under.
Divorced, legally separated, still married -- it doesn't seem to me that your mom is a suitable caregiver for your dad. Could she be if she had sufficient counseling/therapy? Perhaps. I don't hold out a lot of hope, though.
It seems to me that this is a good time to move Dad into the facility that has been picked out for him. The social worker should be able to give you advice on how to bring this about. Would your dad be willing to go there, to get out from under his wife's verbal abuse? If he is willing to go, she can't use the POA to stop it from happening.
Placing him will bring all kinds of financial data to light. Again, I think you really must see an Elder Law attorney for guidance with this.
Ideally you, your mother, and your father work together to resolve this complicated situation. If that isn't possible, then you advocate for your father.
I think that if your mother were to actually consult an attorney regarding a divorce, she would have a rude awakening regarding what it would take to accomplish it and exactly what/how much she would be awarded in a division of property. Frankly, I would think a divorce would be the last thing she'd want if she is trying to protect her own interests. Does she think a judge would allow her to waltz into court - her having an attorney but your father having no legal counsel- and that a judge will award her all the shared assets from a 51 year marriage? If it weren't so tragic it would almost be funny. Has your mother always believed the sun rises and sets just for her?
I hope your able to get your foot in the door and get your father to either an elder care attorney or one that specializes in divorce - not to start divorce proceedings of his own necessarily, but to be informed as to what his rights are - I'd like to see the table turned on your mother to see how being threatened in this manner feels. I get it that she may be reacting from fear but still- consider the fear your father is dealing with.
By the way. Your father must be very fearful, I understand that. But remember that he has a lot to fear that has nothing to do with your mother, though she's certainly not helping; he might be afraid still, even if she was an angel of mercy. Reassure him that everyone wants to help him and that he mustn't be afraid to accept help.
Yes she can still divorce him in most states but it would take time if your dad does not want a divorce. If mom thinks divorce will protect assets from medical expenses she is in for a shock.
What mom should do is see an elder law attorney about Medicaid and spousal impoverishment rules. Either way she is going to have to share assets with dad.
She could hypothetically get guardianship without his consent, yes. I mean, that's kind of the point of it, that the ward in the case isn't able to consent. But I really don't think she'll want to - it would mean her every move being subject to court scrutiny. If she resents a social worker expressing a kindly concern, how's she going to cope with having to make regular reports? And besides, in view of her age and her now recorded attitude, there's no guarantee the court would appoint her. No lawyer would recommend this course of action, surely.
Divorce... No idea, it would depend on the state's laws and all kinds of other factors. But the argument to put to her is, really, what's the point? Why throw away everything she's fought for, for so long? Wouldn't it be the most tragic waste?
The doctors and social workers are being a bit feeble, frankly. They shouldn't find it impossible to insist, tactfully, on speaking to their patient/client on his own. In fact, when my mother had her four-part diagnostic assessment at the memory clinic, her being interviewed alone was part of it - obviously they need to see how well the person functions without the support of the primary caregiver. See if you can't suggest that approach to one of them, perhaps? Then you could offer to take him to the appointment so that he's not afraid of her listening through the door, with her ear pressed to the bottom of a drinking glass...
Every time your mother feels that she is being blamed or reproached, she is going to become more angry and more resistant to outside help and more resentful of your father. Moreover, *she* will feel (I'm not saying I agree!) that she is being blamed and misunderstood when she is the victim here. She is the one who is doing her best for a husband who should be making up for past failings and instead has let her down, and left her facing a future alone, and meanwhile has contracted a shameful malady that will turn him into a useless vegetable. She is furious, and her fury is self-feeding.
I am sympathetic to her, yes, I'm genuinely sorry for what must have happened to her hopes. But of course the vulnerable person is your father. It's just that to get help to him, you have to get past her; and to get past her, you have to help her too.
He has a social worker at a facility that he will go to when the time comes and I'm in contact with my aunt but my mom won't get therapy. He hasn't been able to talk by himself to any of the doctors or social workers. I'm trying to get him out of the house for a week so we can get to talk to his doctors and the social worker but it's so hard to get him out. He's so afraid of the consequences. I'm just very thankful he can call me when she's not home. From what I understand she can't divorce him or get guardianship without his consent, is that correct?
Oh dear God, this is agonising for both of them. And for you. Big hugs to you.
You need independent reinforcements.
Do you know of: good friends of hers that she trusts? a GP or mental health professional she might listen to? another family member she respects?
It sounds as if the social worker didn't get very far, and that is a great pity, because you absolutely did the right thing requesting an assessment. I'm sorry it wasn't more productive.
Her behaviour must seem appalling to you. It *is* appalling. It's just that it is terribly important to understand where it's coming from.
When he was first diagnosed he thought she was doing the best for him by removing his name from the assets so when the time came to go into a home she would not be left without. She has become more and more angry with him. He still cooks for her, cares for himself, takes care of household chores etc. She is very angry with me because in her eyes I am taking his side. She bad mouths him while he is sitting at the same table with her. Tells him the house is not his because his name is not on it, the puppy is not his because he doesn't take her out enough. She seems to be trying to break him. He can't see me or call me when she is home because he is afraid of making her angry. I called the social worker and they visited but I think it made it worse. She got even more angry at both me and my dad and makes his life a living h*ll. They have been married for 51 years. They had a rocky marriage in the beginning but the past 35 years have been fine until he was diagnosed.
When my husband developed dementia I removed him from our joint checking account, and opened one in his name only, that I kept a small balance in. He liked to write checks for his haircuts and golf, but I felt it too risky for him to have access to our checking funds. BUT I was not able to do this as his POA. He had to be present for these transactions and sign off on them. So I am really confused about how she got his name off their joint assets without his participation. Do you know?
Caring for a spouse with dementia is very, very challenging. Doing it when you no longer love the spouse I should think would be totally overwhelming. So it sounds to me that someone else should be caring for your dad. Perhaps this could happen in assisted living or memory care.
Would your father be willing at this point to appoint you as his POA? That would make it easier for you to talk to various agencies and businesses.
Be your Dad's advocate and take him to consult an attorney specializing in Elder Law (or consult one on his behalf if he is not able to comprehend such a conversation.) The specialty is important. Normally one would hire a family law attorney to discuss a divorce, but in this situation it is critical that the lawyer knows all the ins and outs of Medicaid qualifications, and how divorce impacts this. To the extent possible, try to have all the data about their formerly joint assets when you see the lawyer.
This is so sad. I hope it can be resolved in such a way that Dad gets the good care he needs. It does not sound like he is apt to get that from his wife.
You write, as many people do, as though Evil Mother seized Power over poor dad and is now tormenting him prior to rejecting him.
Gosh I bore myself about this...
Power of Attorney is something you hold *for* someone, at their behest. Not *over* someone.
Your father *gave* your mother Power of Attorney, so that she could act *for* him should he become unable to act for himself. As he now has, sadly.
You don't say how long your parents have been married. But it is clear that the Alzheimers diagnosis came as a blow to everyone, and you are all still struggling to come to terms with it.
It also sounds as though your mother is seriously panicking. It isn't that I blame her for that - she goes through a long and turbulent marriage, and at the end of it this is what she's got to look forward to? - but it really doesn't help. And she *really* can't be allowed to take her anger and fear out on your vulnerable father. Who has his own emotions to handle, too, let's not forget.
The best thing you can do for your father, for both of them, is get together as much information you can about support and perhaps counselling for them now, and the options for his care in the future. It is highly likely that at some point your father would need to move to a specialist facility - there are inspiring exceptions, but very few spouses manage to see this horrible disease through to the end at home. There is no shame in accepting alternatives.
Can't see how divorcing him would help. She may be talking about guardianship because he's talking about revoking the POA - is that what this is about, do you know?
Anyway. The key thing is to get her to calm down and breathe deeply. Don't underestimate what they are both going through, but there will be help and there will be answers. Best of luck to you, please let us know how it goes - and please don't blame your mother for being scared and angry.
She has been mentally abusive to him since he was diagnosed. She has power of attorney and had his name removed from their joint assets over a year ago. She is threatening divorce and guardianship to put him in a home. Their marriage was not good many years ago and she seems to be reliving the past to justify her treatment of him now. She just wants him out of her life. She has always been a very manipulative, self centered person. I just want to know what rights my dad has.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
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Even if it isn't you could say someone [me] said they thought she was showing signs of dementia & the only way to prove she isn't is to be tested by the dr & therapists! - maybe see a lawyer with her as part of this? - tell her that now someone outside the family has raised the issue her tests will also allow her driver's license to be valid longer - what ever it takes!
I know you don't need more on your plate but your description just rang a bell & I hope I am wrong however just getting her tested alone means that he should be tested alone at same time - try for different place & let a sibling/other family member go with mom while you go with dad
One way or another dad has to be removed from that situation but I don't know how if all parties give in to Mom's abuse. Do you think Mom would agree to Dad entering some kind of facility? He is obviously still highly functional so would do well in some kind of Assisted Living. Are you able to visit when mom is out?
This is clearly elder abuse but Dad is too afraid to stand up to Mom.
Do you think Mom would agree to going away for a few days alone for *respite*? If you plan carefully you could get everything accomplished including moving Dad in a few days assuming he is willing. Trouble is he is used to asking "how high" when Mom tells him to jump. Old habits are hard to break after 50+ years. i can only send thug and wish you the best of luck. A break could come if Dad needs to go to the hospital for any reason.
When the time comes and your Dad passes on, your mother will have to account for the fact she took his name off accounts without his being "aware" of it. I have seen that happen and the monies that are supposed to be inherited must be returned.
My DH & I have reciprocal wills - there is no need to take him off any of our accounts as this would leave him vulnerable should I predecease him.
You need to speak with an attorney.
I feel sorry for your mom. She has been placed in a very frightening and stressful situation. Of course it is not your dad's fault that he has dementia and she shouldn't be taking it out on him, but I do understand the stress she is under.
Divorced, legally separated, still married -- it doesn't seem to me that your mom is a suitable caregiver for your dad. Could she be if she had sufficient counseling/therapy? Perhaps. I don't hold out a lot of hope, though.
It seems to me that this is a good time to move Dad into the facility that has been picked out for him. The social worker should be able to give you advice on how to bring this about. Would your dad be willing to go there, to get out from under his wife's verbal abuse? If he is willing to go, she can't use the POA to stop it from happening.
Placing him will bring all kinds of financial data to light. Again, I think you really must see an Elder Law attorney for guidance with this.
Ideally you, your mother, and your father work together to resolve this complicated situation. If that isn't possible, then you advocate for your father.
I hope your able to get your foot in the door and get your father to either an elder care attorney or one that specializes in divorce - not to start divorce proceedings of his own necessarily, but to be informed as to what his rights are - I'd like to see the table turned on your mother to see how being threatened in this manner feels. I get it that she may be reacting from fear but still- consider the fear your father is dealing with.
What mom should do is see an elder law attorney about Medicaid and spousal impoverishment rules. Either way she is going to have to share assets with dad.
Divorce... No idea, it would depend on the state's laws and all kinds of other factors. But the argument to put to her is, really, what's the point? Why throw away everything she's fought for, for so long? Wouldn't it be the most tragic waste?
The doctors and social workers are being a bit feeble, frankly. They shouldn't find it impossible to insist, tactfully, on speaking to their patient/client on his own. In fact, when my mother had her four-part diagnostic assessment at the memory clinic, her being interviewed alone was part of it - obviously they need to see how well the person functions without the support of the primary caregiver. See if you can't suggest that approach to one of them, perhaps? Then you could offer to take him to the appointment so that he's not afraid of her listening through the door, with her ear pressed to the bottom of a drinking glass...
Every time your mother feels that she is being blamed or reproached, she is going to become more angry and more resistant to outside help and more resentful of your father. Moreover, *she* will feel (I'm not saying I agree!) that she is being blamed and misunderstood when she is the victim here. She is the one who is doing her best for a husband who should be making up for past failings and instead has let her down, and left her facing a future alone, and meanwhile has contracted a shameful malady that will turn him into a useless vegetable. She is furious, and her fury is self-feeding.
I am sympathetic to her, yes, I'm genuinely sorry for what must have happened to her hopes. But of course the vulnerable person is your father. It's just that to get help to him, you have to get past her; and to get past her, you have to help her too.
You need independent reinforcements.
Do you know of:
good friends of hers that she trusts?
a GP or mental health professional she might listen to?
another family member she respects?
It sounds as if the social worker didn't get very far, and that is a great pity, because you absolutely did the right thing requesting an assessment. I'm sorry it wasn't more productive.
Her behaviour must seem appalling to you. It *is* appalling. It's just that it is terribly important to understand where it's coming from.
What are the facilities like near you?
Caring for a spouse with dementia is very, very challenging. Doing it when you no longer love the spouse I should think would be totally overwhelming. So it sounds to me that someone else should be caring for your dad. Perhaps this could happen in assisted living or memory care.
Would your father be willing at this point to appoint you as his POA? That would make it easier for you to talk to various agencies and businesses.
Be your Dad's advocate and take him to consult an attorney specializing in Elder Law (or consult one on his behalf if he is not able to comprehend such a conversation.) The specialty is important. Normally one would hire a family law attorney to discuss a divorce, but in this situation it is critical that the lawyer knows all the ins and outs of Medicaid qualifications, and how divorce impacts this. To the extent possible, try to have all the data about their formerly joint assets when you see the lawyer.
This is so sad. I hope it can be resolved in such a way that Dad gets the good care he needs. It does not sound like he is apt to get that from his wife.
You write, as many people do, as though Evil Mother seized Power over poor dad and is now tormenting him prior to rejecting him.
Gosh I bore myself about this...
Power of Attorney is something you hold *for* someone, at their behest. Not *over* someone.
Your father *gave* your mother Power of Attorney, so that she could act *for* him should he become unable to act for himself. As he now has, sadly.
You don't say how long your parents have been married. But it is clear that the Alzheimers diagnosis came as a blow to everyone, and you are all still struggling to come to terms with it.
It also sounds as though your mother is seriously panicking. It isn't that I blame her for that - she goes through a long and turbulent marriage, and at the end of it this is what she's got to look forward to? - but it really doesn't help. And she *really* can't be allowed to take her anger and fear out on your vulnerable father. Who has his own emotions to handle, too, let's not forget.
The best thing you can do for your father, for both of them, is get together as much information you can about support and perhaps counselling for them now, and the options for his care in the future. It is highly likely that at some point your father would need to move to a specialist facility - there are inspiring exceptions, but very few spouses manage to see this horrible disease through to the end at home. There is no shame in accepting alternatives.
Can't see how divorcing him would help. She may be talking about guardianship because he's talking about revoking the POA - is that what this is about, do you know?
Anyway. The key thing is to get her to calm down and breathe deeply. Don't underestimate what they are both going through, but there will be help and there will be answers. Best of luck to you, please let us know how it goes - and please don't blame your mother for being scared and angry.
If she becomes his guardian, which I doubt, he will not be out of her life for she will be responsible for his life.
I think that you need to see a lawyer and contact Adult Protective Services in your dad's behalf.
Sounds like she wants to totally abandoned him and take all of the money with her which will leave him destitute. That's selfish and mean!
Divorce him on what grounds? Being sick?
Why does she want to divorce him? Is it about money?