4.5 years ago my mother wanted to move to our town and we built a house with a space for her. 2.5 years ago she had a medically-aborted stroke, and my family and I have since had to deal with her being violent, screaming at us, lying to us and lying about us. She has positioned us as the enemy. I've spent countless hours trying to find the best way to help her, found ALFs we could tour, and spent nearly a year trying to get her into a highly regarded care memory clinic to be evaluated. She has refused ALF visits and canceled multiple appointments. Instead, she's been relying on advice from questionably-motivated "friends", has removed me as POA, and seems to be changing her will to mostly exclude me (I am her only child). We've discovered from her actions and from her sister's information that my mother is and always has been a pathological liar and a narcissist. I'm not sure any more whether her issues are that or if theres dementia, and now we'll never know. When my health starting being really affected, my therapist recommended and my husband and I made the difficult decision to ask her to find another place to live. We gave her just over 2 months deadline. Now she has come back talking about elder abuse and some benefit she gets when she turns 80 (no clue what that could be), so she says she won't move out until her birthday, which is 4 months away. I didn't want to have to do the formal eviction process, but I threatened that when she said she refused. Spending the lawyer money isn't appealing especially since it may take that 4 months anyway. We never imagined it would go this way, and we really never wanted this, but we can't continue this way for the safety, physical and mental health of us or our children. Any (nice, helpful) thoughts? Advice?
Make her uncomfortable :
1) Remove all or most of your own furniture from her basement. Leave the bed and a chair, but not the TV.
2) Lock up your food, and stop providing food. Depending on the layout, this may involve a lock on your kitchen, the cupboards or the fridge. Any food she has that goes off is removed as a health hazard in your home.
3) Respond to her and anyone who asks “we want her to leave and seek appropriate care”.
4) Perhaps contact APS. Get in first with your story - “We never undertook to care for her, and we cannot do so in future. Her behavior is deteriorating and we cannot continue. She needs to seek appropriate care”. Remember that her ‘rights’, if any, are for occupancy, not for care or domestic services.
Try for a health assessment that she is not legally capable of changing her will.
1) Make a list of every instance of her less acceptable behavior.
2) Talk to her doctor, ask for an assessment and document her refusal to have the assessment made if you can’t organise it.
3) When you’ve done both of those, perhaps have an appointment with a lawyer about the situation, particularly regarding her legal capacity.
If a crisis is imminent, send the dog to a kennel for a couple of weeks.
Good luck!
Nope. She does not call the shots. It doesn’t matter when she wants to leave. She will leave when you tell her to leave.
You are past “nice, helpful” thoughts to handle this. She doesn’t seem able to respond to nice anymore. It will be ugly no matter what.
Give her no more than 2 weeks. She won’t go and thinks you’re not truly serious about it. Time for her to find out how serious you are.
Start the eviction process on Monday.
Your mother is in need of psychiatric attention. Allowing her to remain, untreated, in your home, is enabling her denial of her illness.
Look up "Grey Rock" as a technique for dealing with folks with personality disorders.
The next time she has a screaming fit, throws something, has a fall, or so much as hiccups, call 911 and have her taken to the ER and do not accept her back into your house.
Also, when "goes off" take out your phone and video her actions. Without comment. You may need evidence to counter her claims of who is abusing whom.
Consider installing cameras through the home to monitor her actions, especially if you are worried about the dog.
This reign of terror has to end.
Send them both on a cruise way before her birthday.
Ask an attorney if it is legal for you to set up an apt. in AL for when she returns.
Have the entire house draped and fumigated so you all will need to find alternative housing. Make her's a respite care facility that can become long-term. Extend the tenting as long as it takes.
Make sure the money is right if she invested in building the house with the basement space. You may need to give her investment back.
So sorry you are having to go through this.
If it's one of her "friends" consider taking her for a visit to them.
Change the locks. I am hoping that she hasn't paid for any part of the house.
Finally, I know this must be VERY hard for you. It must feel like you're breaking your mother's heart and possibly ending what had previously been a pretty decent relationship.
But here's the thing. What you're doing right now isn't helping your mom. It's enabling her. You are preventing her from getting the treatment that she needs.
You are going to need to stop giving her control (asking nicely and negotiating )and start treating her like an out of control toddler if that's how she behaves.
Give choices: "would you like to tour on Monday or Tuesday? Go to this AL or that AL? No, mom. That is not an option. You may not longer live here. You will be evicted if you don't leave on your own."
As I said, get to lawyer on Monday. We've got your back.
You then are an arm's length away.
Don't be so afraid of doing this, she doesn't care about you or your family, time to take charge and get rid of her.
I did most everything for my mother, my brother did little, one day while driving she announced, I am not leaving you anything in my will, you have enough. That was it for me, didn't care about the money, it was she made it clear "You don't matter to me"! That was it for me, I had put up with verbal abuse for 63 years and I was done, haven't spoken to her since and never will.
Best 13 years of my adult life, do what is right for you and your family.
I would also send her a certified letter indicating that you are starting the eviction process.
If she does not move out before the case comes to court then you have begun the first steps.
If she does move out then you do not have to go to court, just contact the court and cancel the request for eviction.
If she does move out make sure that you cange all the locks.
If she comes back call the police and they can escort her off the property.
If you are concerned about your safety, the safety of your family and property you might want to think about a restraining order.
It may need the help of medical professionals, elder care social services or a social worker. Not to convince Mother but to state her realistic options in a way she can hear & understand (as she is either not listening or cannot comprehend). Then to make the next steps happen.
Not wanting a 'care home' is normal. Stalling for time, anger & fear all normal reactions.
It takes a great deal of mental powers to plan to move home - would Mother be able to do that?
Wind back a bit, do you think Mother understands your point of view? Understand why living separate is on the agenda?
Look under care topics for 'Anosognosia'. I don't wish to suggest it IS this, but stroke is a brain injury & cognition changes do happen. She may lack insight to her situation.
I thought about giving her 3 regular apartment options that are in her preferred area, reasonably priced and have openings so she has no excuse. Should I bother?
Pass over 3 shiny brochures & let them look at them for a day or two. Gives the dignity of choice, without a long list of overwhelming choices.
They can then ask questions about the places, maybe talk it over with family or friends.
Having a choice can feel powerful!
Of course the very stubborn will rip the brochures up, curse & yell.. then family choose for them. (Which I'm sure you'll do!)
When you are all at sea, in the fog, then at last a glimpse of land appears on the horizon. At last! Forward bound!
Keep updating if it helps you.
"my mother is 79 years old, living in my home with age-related decline, alzheimer's / dementia, depression, hearing loss, and stroke."
and
"...changes from aging and a mild stroke have made her someone I don't recognize."
Does she have a medical diagnosis of dementia? If so, when did she change her PoA? Is it possible she did it after the diagnosis? If so, then the PoA may not be valid.
You state that you had a close relationship with her and then she changed, but apparently has been a narcissist her whole life... but you said the stroke and aging decline changed her, so which is it? It is easier to write someone off because they are a "narcissist" than it is to deal with an LO who has dementia. FYI elders with dementia mostly turn into narcissists because they stop being able to have empathy for others, can't work from reason and logic anymore (which results in very bad judgment), become uninhibited in their expressed thoughts and actions, and on and on, as in the case of your Mom *who wasn't always this way* per your own words. Or was she screaming and throwing stuff your whole life and you thought this was normal?
If you know who her current PoA is, I'd contact them to let them know you'll be evicting her and she will need a place to live. It's no longer your job to figure this out for your Mom.
The other option is to go for guardianship if you want to stay in control of your Mom's care and affairs. This needs to go through the courts and will take financial and time resources.
You need to decide if your Mom always had a PD (personality disorder) or if she was the victim of a stroke and also dementia. You're not imagining that you're dealing with something awful. I wish you success in getting her out of your house and somewhere she will get the care she needs now and into her future.
Not sure why you say I need to decide if she is this or that. I'm NOT lying - that's her thing. She has apparently been a narcissist and pathological liar all her life, but I didn't know it. She HAS changed since the stroke - she did not scream and throw things before and I don't recognize the person she is now. I'm NOT trying to get out of taking care of her by changing my mind about her issues.
I would also consider calling APS for options, for at present your home is "under occupation" and you have not even a care contract for shared living expenses. You have just written us, unfortunately and sadly, the best warning for not taking a parent into your home that I have seen on Forum for a while.
I am so very sorry this has happened, but as your mother fails more she is not going to become easier to deal with. I would let the state assume her care as they must for a person with no children.
A stroke before it becomes a stroke that is diagnosed as a stroke will cause damage, and you do not know how many undiagnosed ones she had prior to that one.
Continued undiagnosed strokes and the cognitive effects can be diagnosed as a Vascular Dementia.
In many jurisdictions it is ILLEGAL for a landlord to change locks on a tenant. And a tenant is considered anyone who maintains residency for XXX period of time - in NY that's 30 days - even IF they don't pay rent, even IF they're problem tenants who trash the place, even IF - etc. For example, in NY it is a class A misdemeanor to "unlawfully evict" - and that means, among other things, changing locks - which is punishable up to 1 year in jail plus fines. And this is enforceable EVEN IF you allow the tenant access back into the residence. In other words, tenant moves back in, and you go off to jail. This is why many short-term SRO's only allow a residence to stay in one room for 29 days before moving them to another room, so the tenant can't claim residency.
Make very, very certain that you protect yourself from this.
Even if mom moves out, she can come back and call 911 and claim you locked her out. And if she can prove residency - such as mail coming to the house - it's going to be you in trouble, not her.
Next time she gets violent in any way, call the police. Tell them she needs to be taken to ER and evaluated because you feel she had become a threat to you and yours. When u get a call from the hospital SW give her the info she needs to get Mom care. Then tell her you can no longer have her in your home. That your therapist has told you she needs to go. If you really have no POA, tell the Social Worker that. You may want the State to take over her care. They will find a place faster than u will and appropriate help.
If there is no money, she will not be placed in an AL unless ur State pays for it. An AL is also not obliged to take her if there are mental problems and violence involved.
I think she makes too much for medicaid, but she doesn't have alot of savings, since shes been giving it away to near strangers..
There was nothing from a lawyer about the POA, but apparently there doesn't have to be. I have a photo of the form she completed and her doctor's notes mention that she presented the revocation form. Hoping that shows clear intent.
And don't worry, I will not hesitate to call 911 to get her out at any more violence. Just wish I had known that before. One of many things I wish I had known...
I have a pic of the POA revocation form she completed, and notes about who she wants it to be, but no idea if she's actually done that part.
Thanks for the dog concerns. She's an old lady too so I don't think she would hesitate to bite her. :)
I too want to encourage you to see an attorney if only for a one hour consultation to see if you need to protect yourself from your mothers anger that may be under the manipulation of a “friend”.
Even though you are late learning of life long issues with your mom and feel you now know the worst, don’t underestimate the influence of scammers and grifters to educate and influence their targets on how to thwart your efforts to have her move. Things you may have never considered or mom may have never considered can be in the works. Does mom use the internet, have a smart phone?
Regarding the POA revocation, does that sound like something she would have come up with on her own? Did she share with you that she had revoked your POA? I know you saw a copy in her doctors notes, but did she independently let you know?
You asked her to leave with a 2 month notice. When was this? Did you see the photo of the POA revocation before or after the 2 month notice? Just wondered if she did that in retaliation?
She wants you to wait four more months and you seem to think it will take four months to evict her, so if she doesn’t move in four months when she turns 80, that could extend her residency for eight months. Perhaps I missed something.
Does your mom drive? Cook? Take meals with your family? Do her own shopping? Pay her own bills? Take care of her space, do her own laundry? Change her sheets, run the vacuum? Have a housekeeper? Does she contribute anything to the household expenses? if she is fully capable of taking care of herself, it looks like a routine eviction process but if she should injure herself in your home she could make your life more miserable than it is now. Does she drink? Take many medications?
I wouldn’t be comfortable not knowing what she is intimating will happen in four months and letting her call the shots.
She is not herself and doesn’t acknowledge that she has a problem. In fact seems very frightened to explore the possibility. So if you are to believe she is well, then there is no explaining her behavior. She has removed you from any position to manage her affairs should she have an accident or severe health condition. The current arrangement doesn’t work for you.
I’m sorry but I can’t see anyway around the law assisting you if she refuses to leave on her own.
She has a smartphone and access to the internet but seriously not much clue how to use either. She only knows how to click on a link someone sends so she'd be prime target for scam.
She did the revocation in July, at least that's when doc visit was. She did not tell me and still hasn't. I gave her the deadline letter on Monday. It may have been spite or retaliation, but not for that.
Im not sure about your math. We asked her to move out by November 15, she wants January 23.
She drives locally, shops for and prepares her own food, cleans her apartment (less well than used to be her standard) and washes. She pays the few bills she has - car insurance, medical stuff and credit card she shops with. We pay everything else. She was contributing money toward the monthly bills, but then she just stopped in January with no discussion or explanation.
She manages her own meds, hopefully anyway. Guess thats not my problem anymore. She does drink A LOT, and she hides the wine bottles in our shared trash before pickup. My aunt even commented on how much and how early she drank when on a long weekend with them (after I begged them to take her and give me a break).
Yeah, this magic thing when she turns 80 iishighly suspect. Seems like something she maybe half heard or something. The responses from this group have convinced me that we can't trust her on that.
I love this - if you are to believe she is well, then there is no explaining her behavior. She is so afraid to be evaluated that she wants us to believe she's fine. So if she's fine, she doesn't need to be taken care of and can go live somewhere else. Thanks for proving our case mom!
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
So sorry for all this crazy in your life and your home. Ugh.
I'm not saying she doesn't need or deserve care, I just can't be the one trying to wrestle her into it anymore. I will have to leave that to her new POA. She is toxic to my family and it's time to focus on our well-being.
Who is mom giving money to? Is she being scammed by folks who may be "advising" her?
In addition to all else we've advised, I would send a short summary of the personality changes you've seen in your mom to her doctor.
Send it cerified, return receipt. You state that you understand that the doctor can't give you any information, but that you feel obliged to share that your mother's well-being is being endangered by unknown strangers and her own poor judgement.
"Married with two young adult children currently living at home. "
Go to the "caregiving topics" section on this site and read up on Medicare parts A and B (and the supplement plans, often called Medical be that you can buy) and Medicare Advantage, which limits your choice of doctors.
Community Medicaid is medical insurance for folks who are relatively low income; Long Term Care Medicaid (what pays for Nursing Home Care and sometimes Assisted Living) has different qualifications. There are perfectly legal ways around the income caps on LTC Medicaid. Very State dependent.
Curious, have you called your mother out on her slander? Told her to cut it out? And that you will happily find her a new place to live?
Elder Law: https://www.agingcare.com/articles/how-to-select-an-elder-law-attorney-198738.htm
These are the NELF folks in your state:
https://nelf.org/search/search.asp?txt_state=South+Carolina
Yes I have called her out on it, many times. She just shrugs it off or makes some excuse. She's been doing this all her life so she's quite an expert.
https://www.scacog.org/aging-services
Consider calling Adult Protective Services and explain to them what's going on and the fact that your mother is going to be in need of housing due to her violent outbursts in your home. And that she has revoked your POA and assigned it to someone who may be scamming her out of her funds.
It will be much better for them to hear the facts from you before they get a call from her or her new POA, claiming that you are abusing her.
Have you read anything about F.O.G., ie, Fear Obligation and Guilt?
I can't imagine why, if she's always been this way, you imagined that taking her into your home was a good idea.
It sounds like she's snowed you your entire life.
Think seriously about calling both APS and AAA today
And 911 when she acts out.
Ive been playing phone tag with the Agency on Aging person today. I can't figure out how to get APS. They only seem to have a number to report abuse.
Ive been turned down by one lawyer I contacted. Waiting for a reply from two others.
We know that she's had a 22 min call with a real estate lawyer today, who is apparently a recommendation from her questionable friend and the one who planted the idea of elder abuse with her.
Im much more stressed today than I have been for some reason.
If she refuses to go you have a sheriff serve her with eviction papers to vacate your house. The time for 'nice, helpful' thoughts and advice are over.
She has no respect for you and treats you like garbage.
Kick her the hell out.
I would call each and every one of these questionably-motivated "friends" and tell them to come and tell them plainly they can come and get her if they know better than you.
Also that if they don't stop slandering you to your mother and 'advising' her with their ignorant nonsense which makes your life harder, you will pack up her things and dump them off on their front lawn along with mom.
Don't let people treat you like this family or not.
You do not have to hire a lawyer to do an eviction. ALl you have to do is go fill out the papers at the courthouse then pay a sheriff to serve your mother with the eviction notice. Do it now because in some states you can't evict in the winter months.
In the meantime while she's still with you I say give it to her as good as you get it.
Hon, I was a caregiver for 25 years and own my own agency now. I was also one to my mother who is the reigning queen of trouble-making, instigating, bullying, gaslighting, entitiled, abusive elders.
So your story really speaks to me.
If she wants to start up a cute little game of false elder abuse accusations, I'll tell you how to play it.
Get her to a hospital ER any way you can. If you have to call the police and an ambulance and tell them she's out of control and is threatening self-harm do that.
Then ask at the hospital for a 'Social Admit'. That you cannot provide care for her anymore and refuse to take her back to your house.
The hospital will find her a place.
Checkmate.
I DID tell her to leave. Didn't ask. On the advice of many posters before you, I'm working on starting the legal eviction process as we speak. Maybe I don't strictly need a lawyer, but I want to do it right and protect us.
My mention of "nice, helpful" was about answers from this group. Vast majority have been. I just didn't want to have a bunch of people telling me how we should have done the past differently. I'm well aware and feeling much to emotionally fragile for that.
I promise, if she gives us any reason, I'm calling 911 immediately.
"I need to talk to you about the fact that my mom, who lives with us, is threatening to report us for abuse
My mom had a stroke and she is refusing recommended medical care. She threatens us and throws household objects. She has withdrawn my POA and seems to be accepting advice from someone who is financially scamming her. What can we do?"
All states have homecare agencies. Insurance is what determines what services get provided in a private home.
Actual nurses can be hired in a private home if the patient is wealthy and they can pay for it.
The nursing home racket would never allow homecare to go too far because it would put them put of business.
I'd call again. I would call every day, actually.