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Are the lawyers you are calling landlord/tenant lawyers?


https://www.rentecdirect.com/blog/should-i-evict-a-family-member/
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Update on the eviction process. I enlisted help from a relative who is a retired lawyer. I really just needed someone to tell me what to expect and to watch out for.

At least in SC, I've technically already started the process by giving her the letter with a date to be out. The day after that date, I would go to the Magistrate Court to file. She is served within 30 days then has 10 days to respond. If she doesn't, we're done. If she responds, we go to court, which is the question mark as far as time. That's the point where I would need a lawyer's help. No idea which way she'll go. I'd love to think she would just go, but her recent history shows otherwise.

Seems there's nothing I can do but wait at the moment. Gotta say, waiting is not my best thing.
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I see that reasonable discussions on moving went nowhere. Also tried to tour ALs without sucess.

I can see why legal advice & a legal pathway has been chosen.

Yet I'm still stuck on Mom's health status I suppose.. history of stroke?

There is a wide grey area between ok & not ok. Between 'presumed to have capacity' and being declared 'unable to make decisions for self'.

What to do in this grey area? This is the big problem.

I see you have tried for evaluation too.

I think I'd be carefully looking at harm or potential harm, even self-neglect. So if there are any of: threats of violence, objects thrown, neglect of personal hygiene, not taking medications, not eating properly. Could a local mental health help line advise if this would qualify for a forced mental health assessment ('Baker Act')?

I've been close to this for my LO, but home health aides for personal care & housekeeping were accepted. If not, self-neglect & squalor would have ensured & been reportable. With home help, everything now works well.

Is that another avenue? Getting more help in your home? Or are you done & want separatation? (Gosh I would).
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NeedHerOut Sep 2023
I'm for sure done. Perhaps to some it sounds cold, but I'm so grateful for those on this forum who hear my point of view, relate to it and support me through it.

If any of the times we confronted her about telling everyone terrible untrue things about us, for example, had resulted in any change in that behavior, I might have believed there was something to salvage. She didn't, and I don't.

I believe she deserves the best care and I hope someone can convince her to get it, but I just can't do it anymore.
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Need more advice please. I am an only child, as I said. Mom's sister has 3 children starting a year or so younger than me. Oldest Cousin (OC) was always held up to me as the perfect daughter and was who mom wrote down on note to be POA now that I'm not. I talked to OC over the weekend and she seemed to be lining up facts to work with mom. Now today, when I contacted OC, she said she and her brothers were going to discuss options with my mom, but this whole thing was "between you and your mom." She said "Honestly none of this is our responsibility. It's yours." She's right about it not being their responsibility but I'm not taking it back either. My defenses feel weak. What do I say? How can I strengthen my fragile defenses?
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sp196902 Sep 2023
Translation Oldest Cousin doesn't want to deal with her and after talking to her other brothers was snapped into reality about taking responsibility for your mother whom you describe as "my family and I have since had to deal with her being violent, screaming at us, lying to us and lying about us."

You can't blame her. Once they move into your house these types of elders are harder to remove than a tick on a dog.

You are going to have to formally evict her. I see below you have started and filed the paperwork. Where she goes from there is your mother's decision once she is served the notice to vacate your property.

Yes even though your mother is a nasty piece of work you might start to feel guilty and feel bad about evicting her. Especially if she is behaving herself and not acting out.

My suggestion is to write down the reasons you want your mother out of your house and keep reading those reasons over and over, every time your resolve to do this waivers in any way.

This is why 99% of the time people on this board warn others not to move in with their elderly parents or move them into their house. The smart ones heed the warnings. Those that don't and decide to do it anyway come back later and as how to get said parent the hell out of their house.
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You know, I've heard this many times now.

An elder turns away from their own children, then looks to nieces/nephews next. (Cousin #1, then cousin #2 & so on..)

Reasons exist why things broke down with their own kids.

Maybe their kids were drug dependant, mentally ill, live in far flung places..? Full of bad intentions. It can happen.

Or, the kids have had a total gut full of an entitled, stubborn, unreasonable tyrant who expects obedience & servitude. THIS is what I have seen, over & over.

"My son/daughter won't do what I want them to do so I'm appointing a new POA".

OK.

My own LO was clear about no longer wanting me involved as I was not willing to be at beck & call, 7 days a week. OK. So be it.

So, to the oldest cousin (OC) the latest 'Chosen One'.

"between you and your mom." She said "Honestly none of this is our responsibility. It's yours." 

Well now... It WAS. But no longer.

Mom wanted to revoke the OP's POA - she has that right - so the responsibility lies with MOM as she is presumed competent.

Chosen Cousin can CHOOSE to be involved, or not. Jump in to be the new Helper for an Aunt, or not.
(My take would be, so be it).

It IS of course upsetting, sad, invokes grief at what could have been. Myself I have sought professional advice, legal, social worker & councelling. And it is far from over.. train still on the tracks for now.

Please pay no attention to anyone that focuses on the past, letting Mom move in etc. Who knew? Who has a crytal ball? Anyone?

The past is the past.
Today, you are dealing with the version of your parent you have today.
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NeedHerOut Sep 2023
Thanks for this response. I'm going to look back on it frequently when my confidence wanes. I did respond to OC similar to the suggestion and didn't hear anything more. Funny how as more time passes my confidence declines - weird math, that.

"Reasons exist why things broke down..." Oh, yeah. My hubs and I were tallying up all the people in my mom's life who have walked away - her husband, her closest friend, many other friends and now her daughter. I hung on longer than others, probably because it was hard for me to see her for what she was.

Love this, I "have had a total gut full of an entitled, stubborn, unreasonable tyrant who expects obedience & servitude." I might need to get that engraved on a name tag.:)
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I totally agree with Beatty.

As long as your mom is competent, she is her OWN responsibility.

If she needs a place to live, you are happy to help her find one and have offered that, but she has rejected your assistance.

Your cousin is now what is known in the world of narcissists as a "flying monkey"--well-meaning people who take your mom's word as truth and try to guilt you into fulfilling the narc's wishes

Be aware of that. It seems to be working at making you feel guilty.
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NeedHerOut Sep 2023
Barb you are awesome. Thank you so much for the "flying monkeys" term. She has a lot of those. Guess that appropriately makes her the wicked witch! Hahaha
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Here's a nice article on Flying Monkeys:

https://medium.com/little-red-survivor/three-ways-to-disable-flying-monkeys-5a3d7ba3e000#:~:text=Don't%20let%20it.,refuse%20to%20play%20their%20games.

This one is a bit more technical, but divides the two main types of "flying monkeys".

https://www.narcissisticabuserehab.com/types-of-flying-monkeys/?amp=1
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Big giant news. The moving truck is here. Apparently my cousins who said it wasn't their problem have done something after all and she's told others she is moving to their town. Thank you to all of you for your kindness and good advice. I know you've helped me tremendously to get to this point.
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MeDolly Oct 2023
Wonderful! May she enjoy her new life...and you...yours!
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Congratulations.

Change the locks as a precaution.
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NeedHerOut Oct 2023
Locks changed!
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Wonderful, so happy for you. Now it’s time to plan going forward and strengthen your resolve. That means to decide now not to communicate excessively with her or your cousins. I have a feeling you’re going to start getting phone calls with requests for help. They are going to find out immediately what the true situation is. Make sure everyone knows mom can’t come back. You’re going to repurpose her living quarters. Talk about making it a rental or an art studio or anything else plausible. This doesn’t mean you have to do it, you’re presently only planning. And of course you won’t be going to her new town to help out with anything because once you start that, you’ll never be free of it.

Good luck!
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NeedHerOut Oct 2023
I don't expect to hear much, certainly not from her. My husband texted her after they left to ask about ALL the stuff she left here but no response. I have accepted that contact with my mother is probably done forever. Sad but true.

Yes, I won't be surprised when the cousins start calling, but they won't get any action from me. I told them every awful detail and they chose to enter the ring with her anyway. I feel sorry for them that they didn't believe me. They'll see. She'll put on the act for a while, but it can't last forever.
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Point of Contact...
As long as an estranged person has any of their belongings at your home.
Pack it up, put it in a storage unit in her name. Pay the first month, send the key and the bill to cousin's address.
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So very sorry for your loss NeedHerOut.

Write this down on a 3 x 5 card to remind you:

"We never imagined it would go this way, and we really never wanted this, but we can't continue this way for the safety, physical and mental health of us or our children."
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So sorry for all your family has been through, and also so glad the nightmare seems to be ending. Enjoy the restoration of order and peace in your home. Do something nice for yourself, you deserve it
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My heart breaks for you. I know exactly what you are experiencing as I have been in your position with my husband. Your mother is a classic narcissist as I can tell from your description of her. My husband used to smash dishes when I tried to point out his narcissistic behavior to him. Just like you, I had to go to counseling to cope with my husband’s narcissistic behavior. After going to counseling for about four years, I came to the realization that counseling was not helping my situation because I was still living under the same roof as the narcissist. I decided to take control of my life and to be my own advocate, so I stopped going to counseling and I stopped taking the antidepressant medications that the psychiatrist had prescribed and I distanced myself from my husband and that’s when I regained my sanity.

You have done the right thing by removing your mother from your home. In order for you to maintain your sanity, you need to dissociate yourself from this kind of behavior. Do not feel guilty about removing your mother from your house as this is the only way that you will regain your sanity.

I am so happy that you have done what’s right for you and your family. Now it’s time for you and your family to enjoy your peaceful life which you all deserve.
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