Doctor decided to send mom with dementia to nursing home without conferring with me! I am her POA financially and medically. She signed the paperwork, which she is incapable of comprehending and it is one of the most expensive facilities in the area! Can I take the police with me to have her removed? Her medical notes state that it is not safe for her to be at home (no one has been to my home to check for safety) and that my mom has said that I am verbally abusive, which is not true. Sometimes she makes things up like telling everyone that the bruise on her leg was from my dog mauling her... also not true. I have been working on a plan to place her in a facility but I need to get her house ready for sale to help pay for the facility. I quit my job 2+ years ago to take care of my mom properly and I refuse to let some Dr. that really doesn't know her place her somewhere that I hadn't had an opportunity to even evaluate! BTW I should've mentioned that she was in the hospital for several weeks and they let her be discharged and transported her directly to the nursing home, I wasnt informed about any of this nor did I even know where she had been transported to. She is in a 14 day quarantine sooooo f#%* I can't go see her face to face!
How are things going?
Thanks for raising this issue again. So many people have responded in earnest, when we may not even know the real circumstances.
Caveat: I haven't read all the many responses after giving the OP time to respond, and don't plan to read them as they apparently address a situation which was never clarified.
For those who haven't read the profile:
"About me: I am caring for my boyfriends mother. Im very active but have had to slow some due to RA. Nancy has severe anxiety and nerve damage from being under anthsesia too long during surgery. Nancy also suffers from dementia although she still knows who we are she has small lapses in memory, what year it is and asks when her deceased husband will be home. I have zero medical experience so any help you can give me would be awesome"
and
"Caring for: I am caring for nancy, who is 83 years old, living in my home with age-related decline, alzheimer's / dementia, anxiety, depression, incontinence, mobility problems, and urinary tract infection."
On 31 March the OP wrote, in part and in response to someone else's queries:
"My mom is 82 and still stands at 6'1' , she is actually physically very healthy , acid reflux and a hernia are her only other ailments. "
So, Mom is either suffering from dementia, etc., as described in her profile, or just acid reflex and a hernia?
OP, the OP is apparently caring for her mother and her BF's mother as well? Or just her mother but the profile is just FYI but has nothing to do with her mother? OP, could you please clarify?
My Mom went from a hospital stay to Rehab. It took them 2 weeks to have a care meeting. During that meeting they listed Moms meds, her Thyroid med was not listed. I questioned it and was a little upset she had not received it in 14 days. It ended up taking some research on my part to find out who felt she did not need it. What I hate about hospitals, they do not consult with the patients PCP or specialist or me. Mom had Graves desease and was seeing a specialist for it. Since her numbers were looking good, he had her taking her pill every other day. Which I told the admitting nurse when Mom checked in. So, she had her pill the day before and due another the next day. Seems the doctor overseeing her did labs and found her numbers were normal and stopped the med. So when she went to rehab, the med was not ordered even though it was listed. No one asked me anything. I said "her labs are normal because...she is taking medication!"
Another time Mom was in I listed all her doctors and phone #s and gave them to the Nurses desk. Out of that list, at least 3 of Moms doctors had privileges at that hospital one being her neurologist. So, I go to visit and ask when Mom was being discharged. I was told the doctor assigned to her wanted a Neurological consult. I asked who was the doctor they were bringing in. Nope, not my Moms doctor. I asked the Nurse why would they call in a stranger when my Moms Neurologist had privileges and they were given a list. I told her I wanted Dr. G because he knew Mom. Actually, I should have asked why the consult anyway because she sees a Neurologist regularly. Why MONEY. And the guy they were calling in, I had never heard of.
I really feel this is why so many mistakes are being made at Hospitals, no one consults with the PCP or the specialist or the family. All who know the patient best.
However, 6 months later, I take her to her annual Medicare appointment with her PCP. I mentioned that the nursing home had her on a blood thinner, but there were no refills, so we stopped it. Blood thinners after a break or bone surgery in the elderly isn't that unusual, so I thought nothing of it. Her PCP looked in her record to see why it was prescribed, and it turns out that mom had some small blood clots in her lungs! We were never informed about this by either the hospital or nursing home!
I really miss the days when the doctors who knew the patients took care of them when they were hospitalized.
No one had a right to transport your mother to a nursing home without your consent.
If your home was unsafe for her to be discharged to, then an assessment would have been done and you would have received official paperwork (from the state) declaring it unsafe for her.
Please, DO NOT let this go. You need a lawyer. Do not pay for anything either. Don't pay any bills from the nursing home the doctor had your mom brought to. If you pay any bills from there it's an acknowledgement that you agree with your mom being placed in that facility and that you acknowledge a debt owed to them.
Don't pay for anything. Talk to a personal injury lawyer. They also specialize in nursing home abuse and fraud, as well as medical malpractice and fraud.
Not true. The POA isn't God. The POA can and should be overruled if their choices are not in the best interest of the principal.
Lets say the POA believed the senior would get well if they drank bleach, had blood letting and lived in an unheated tent in the middle of winter. Does that mean the doctors, social workers and the courts should let it happen just because the POA said so? Absolutely not!
Cashew was not planning on the mother drinking bleach or living in a tent outdoors in the winter. If such was the case the state would send social workers out to assess the living situation. If they find that it's unsafe for the elder to return to, they get a signed court-order giving permission for the elder to be moved to a care facility. The POA would be given an official copy of this court document. The POA decides (unless there is official protest from another party which is done in court or by the state) whether or not the person they have POA for will go into a nursing home. They also choose which facility that person may be going to depending on availability. They also make healthcare decisions.
The hospital tried to convince me to have a feeding tube done for my father after his stroke. It was refused. They tried to be very convincing that it would only benefit him. No. All that would have accomplished is to prolong his suffering and make the nursing home's job easier. It would mean an aide wouldn't have to stay with him when he ate to make sure he didn't choke. My father was 91 years old. I knew him for 42 years longer than the hospital and nursing home did. He didn't want that done and it wasn't done.
The OP's mother lives with her POA (daughter). It was decided that the home was unfit without even sending someone out to do an assessment. It's easier to get the paperwork filed and the kickback paid out if they just check the box for 'unsafe at home' without even seeing the place.
The mother is out of it with dementia. The doctor and care team acknowledge this because the POA is active. Elderly people with and without dementia make up lies all the time for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes out of boredom, to get attention, plain old spite, etc... Lies like the dog mauling her and the daughter being verbally abusive.
I had a client who called the police on me because I hit her and was swearing at her. I was in the kitchen washing the dishes and the cops show up.
The actual truth is that her blood sugar was high (Type 2 diabetes) so I didn't let her have ice cream with lunch. The cops knew she had dementia and had a talk with her daughter. They recommended facility placement. No one insisted or went above the daughter's head. She was placed though.
The care staff for Cashew's mother knows she has dementia.
Cashew needs to talk to the police and a lawyer.
They could have gotten a story she was living alone, no one to help. Did you visit in the hospital and talk to her nurse, or charge nurse? If they don't see or hear from a family member, they will think no one is there for her, and go off of that.
When a pt is ready to discharge unless she can walk out of the hospital, you would have needed an ambulance/transport service waiting to take her home to your house.
Id call the nursing home. You might be able to visit with a mask if she doesn't have covid. Maybe they want to make sure, before she is moved in with another resident in the same room? (Im guessing with that one). I'd ask.
Maybe they can get a phone to her. My dad called me from the nursing home. He asked them and they said OK. They looked up the number and dialed the phone. Or set up a time when you can speak to her by phone. They can wipe down a phone. Unless she hard of hearing. Or maybe they can talk on the phone and relay a few questions & answers back and forth. Or relay a message to her, you will be in on such and such a day.
I think your getting yourself all worked up for nothing. It is routine to send the pt to the next available bed if no one made arrangements before. They need that bed in the hospital. You are not forced to keep her there. They sent my dad to a nursing home, and then we found out. Good luck.
Go and talk to the administrator. If there is a real problem about discharging her to your home they will say so. And then you can go from there. You can also set up OT/PT/Speech, and cna's or nurses for at home.
Your mom might have signed discharge papers from the hospital. Calm down, it will be alright. Good luck.
My mom has dementia she is already confused, now all this, I am normally very calm and handle our business always in her best interest. I had brought in pictures and brochures of the place I had found to be the best fit for her needs and was preparing her for the change. She was a little excited about her room and how we were gonna jazz it up!. The social worker knew I was canvassing different facilities....I am totally at my wits end with this scenario. Friday I am having her transported to the facility that has memory care she needs, the one that fits her best and the family lawyer will handle everything from there. Her primary care doctor has been fired basically because of her lack of knowledge in my moms case and also when I got my moms medical notes ect fom her hospital stay 80% of the primary care doctor's notes were blacked out all other notes from doctors, nurses, social work and psychologist were transparent which to me is fishy.
I'd be willing to bet anything that Cashew's mother has really good insurance and they know she has property.
It's a classic case of Old Person With Dementia Needs Placement So Just Go Ahead And Do It.
That's wrong. The hospital had no reason to suspect elder abuse or an unsafe environment at home. Zero evidence to back up such a claim and no home assessment of any kind done.
All they have to go on is the nonsense of an elderly person with dementia being spiteful or trying to get attention from the hospital staff.
The hospital likely has an 'arrangement' with the expensive nursing home. This is common. A hospital or rehab will favor one nursing home over another. Money changes hands somewhere down the line. It always does.
Make copies of your POA and distribute them freely, esp. now to the facility Mom is in. Check out the facility and don't just move Mom - that could cause more stess stress for Mom. Medicare usually pays the first 20 days. It's routine to go from a hospital to rehab; drs use that language "cannot go home...." routinely or Medicare won'tpay.
6 weeks in the hospital is long, 20 days in rehab may not be enough. The facility should reevaluate and request Medicare for further coverage, but that can be a fight. If the current facility is a SNF, they may transfer Mom to a long tem facility after 20 days. My Mom's therapists told me that for every day an elder stays in bed sick, they lose a month of ability/mobility. 6 weeks was a very long stay. I think you're in for a long haul. Don't bring Mom home too soon; it won't be good for her or you.
Get more involved now. I agree with previous posters to find out from the hospital social worker about what happened and why. Depending on those answers, you may need an attorney.
FYI, hospital systems don't share POA info, etc. with each other. Most times, they don't even share medical records or history. So, if Mom went to a new hospital, they may not even know her at all. EM transport will take the patient to the nearest hospital that is best for the current emergency health situation. Sometimes they ask your preference, but usually you have to tell them. Even then, they may advise the better trauma center.
To your upmost question: No, I wouldn't call the police, but I might consult an attorney if APS or allegations against your household have been made. As POAHC, I would request copies of all the dr notes, etc. from the hospital. Hopefully, you have a previous drs formal diagnosis of Mom's dementia. If not, now is the time to have that evaluated because our family opinions don't hold water if they're not medically documented.
Please update us so we can support you through this.
Call the hospital and talk to the social worker who handled her case. Ask her/him why did they send mom to that nursing home. Is it normal for a doctor to send pts to where he wants when they have dementia? What family member was consulted? Did any family member visit mom at the hospital? Sometimes family can't show up, or isn't there so they need to d/charge pt to free up the bed. They send to first avail local nursing home bed. They can always be moved to another nursing home/place. It isn't set in stone. You are POA.
Goodluck.
It sucks to do your best yet get smacked down by folks. Folks who already have experience and knowledge and put their “better than you” faces on and judge you. Maybe once you get past this you won’t be one of those condescending jerks.
Try to remember that you and them are all trying to do what’s best for your mom.
Too many times it is done for kickbacks and corruption. If the last couple of years hasn't informed you of how evil and corrupt the medical establishment is, I don't know what to say.
There is usually a social worker that handles the paperwork to move a person from a hospital to another facility. You should contact that person and find out what happened. They could have had Adult Protective services talk to her and made that decision if she is mentioning abuse or not wanting to live with you.
It sounds like you didn't follow their paperwork protocol. I learned that lesson. Now, any time there's a hospital stay, the first thing I ask for is all their paperwork that's required. The last stay the hospital required I fill out their POA/directive paperwork and have it witnessed. Otherwise, my POA paperwork was worthless. best of luck
It is unclear to me wether this is your mom or your MIL and while and why if she was in the hospital for several weeks you or your partner as POA wouldn’t have been visiting regularly and more involved and in direct communication with hospital staff, including discharge. In my experience they are happy to play fast and loose with proof if you tell them you have POA and are family so they can try to strong arm you to take the patient home or do the leg work and choosing of the next facility. I can image however that if you are saying you are POA for your partners mother and she is saying you verbally abuse her the hospital might have a higher level of suspicion or scrutiny especially if her son or daughter isn’t there supporting it all. She fits the profile of a vulnerable senior given some of the details as I understand them so again maybe look at this a different way and appreciate that the hospital and now NH is watching after her and be appreciative rather than threatening up front, work with them instead of against them and let them get a feel as to who you really are and what the situation really is. APS too if they have become a part of this, they are just doing their jobs.
They did try to strong arm me to take her home after about 10 days. I refused because she was still a total mess sobbing screaming and had developed incontinence. Her medications were not doing their job. After week 3 she seemed to improve almost all her meds were changed and I wS very happy with the care she had gotten. That is why I was FLABBERGASTED when suddenly she was discharged and transported without any word to me! The verbal abuse claim was never mentioned to me either, i read that in one statement in one nurses notes and never saw it again. I did see where she said she was afraid to go home in the medical records but at that point I think she was basically afraid of everything and may not have known what or where home is/was going to be. I'm much calmer now but I'm still not at all happy with the way things were handled, it certainly will never happen again. Thank you for your input
Did you at time if admission tell the admitting nurse that you were Moms POA? Did you hand her a copy of ur POA and maybe a formal diagnosis from her PCP or Neurologist? Was your contact # in their system? When my Mom was in the hospital, I was called concerning which Rehab I preferred. I was called when they were ready to discharge.
A doctor can say in writing that a person needs 24/7 care but as said, I have never heard a doctor having the power to place anyone. Actually, even though I wasn't told this by discharge, but you don't have to go to rehab. I really don't know why, when there is family and she lives with you why u weren't called.
Hopefully this is rehab so Medicare pays the first 20 days 100%. But something does not seem right and you need to find out what that is. If APS was notified I would think by now you would have been. Their investigation is not one sided. I so hope they would not take the statements of a person suffering from a Dementia to heart. I agree, call the SW at the hospital and find out what is going on. If she won't give you any info call your State Ombudsman if that does work, then a lawyer.
Please update us. We learn from others.
She also told them she is scared because sometimes I leave for the whole weekend lol totally not true. I have had visiting angels come in for 4 to 7 hours if I had to do errands or when my sister passed in January so I could do funeral arrangements. My mom is a large woman ( not obese but a strong sturdy German (6'1") so if I take her to the doctors I have visiting angels come help and they also bathe her twice a week. She is moving to the facility I originally had planned for her on Friday
I got copies of the paperwork she signed at discharge and the paperwork she signed for her admittance into the NH. I'm still shocked that this happened
It is the duty of a social worker (or any other mandated reporter e.g. doctor) whose client tells her that her family beats her up and sets the dog on her not to send that client back to the family until it is established that these statements are false. Turn it round, and imagine - what would we say to a doctor or social worker who patted the little old lady on the head and said "there there, dear, I'm sure they all love you very much."
Are you in touch with the hospital social worker or APS? Work with them. This too will pass.
Has your Mom been being cared for in your home? How long has your POA to act for her been in effect? Does your Mom have dementia? Is the doctor your Mom saw aware of her diagnosis of Dementia?
In order for your Mom's doctor to place her in a facility, no matter WHAT it costs, then someone has a temporary guardianship. No one can simply override your POA just like that and send your Mother to a Nursing home without investigation by APS.
There is something missing here.
This doesn't make any sense.
Can you fill us in completely about who the current guardian of your Mom is and whether the State has assumed temporary guardianship?
You wrote:
"I am caring for my boyfriends mother. Im very active but have had to slow some due to RA. Nancy has severe anxiety and nerve damage from being under anthsesia too long during surgery. Nancy also suffers from dementia although she still knows who we are she has small lapses in memory, what year it is and asks when her deceased husband will be home. I have zero medical experience so any help you can give me would be awesome"
"I quit my job 2+ years ago to take care of my mom properly..."
So, when you referred to "mom", and wrote that, were you referring to YOUR mother, or your BF's mother?
She was placed by some "authority". Whether her own (she's not been declared incompetent and can make her own decisions) or she is under court order.
I found that when my mom was hospitalized to be in touch with discharge planning on Day 1. By law, that's when they start figuring out where the patient will go next.
how did this happen unless the OP wasn't (a) communicating at least with the nursing staff and/or (b) wasn't visiting her mother more often and keeping up to date on her progress?
These statements also raise issues:
" She signed the paperwork, which she is incapable of comprehending and it is one of the most expensive facilities in the area! Can I take the police with me to have her removed? Her medical notes state that it is not safe for her to be at home"
You've apparently seen the discharge papers and the admission papers to the facility, as well as her medical notes. Did you get the records after your mother was discharged?
You state that your mother has dementia; is that documented in the medical notes? And if so, is there anything that addresses her cognitive level, i.e., to sign papers on her own behalf?
As to involving the police, I doubt if they would become involved unless you really can prove that your mother is not cognizant of where she is, how she got there, etc.
I think it would be helpful to calm down, think the situation through and decide how to approach it professionally, w/o bringing in law enforcement.
1 reason OP might not have been able to be there at discharge, is because the mother (falsely) accused OP of abuse. In that case, while under investigation, they might have prevented OP from visiting at the hospital.
There are so many holes in this story I don't know where to begin.
The prudent thing for you to do is to calm down and get the facts straight before you 'call the police' or do anything to take your mother out of the nursing home she was likely sent to for REHAB purposes. Call the doctor and get the facts before you continue flipping out. That's my suggestion.
Btw, how is it you're so involved with your mother's care that she was released from the hospital, transported to some nursing home you are unaware of, and all of this happened w/o your knowledge??? Had you been there for her discharge, all of this would have been explained to you and you'd have had a say as to which nursing home/SNF she was sent to for rehab as well!!!
I hope OP it all gets solved very soon, for your mother and you.