I keep getting pressured. When my mom applied for Medicaid Waiver, Medicaid valued her car at $2,500. I have no idea how they got this value. Last night a friend called me and asked if I wanted to sell it, he then offered me $1,500 if I wanted to sell it now. In my opinion, that's more than the car is worth but since my mom has passed away, my lawyer said I would have to wait until the matter is settled with Medicaid Estate Recovery before I can legally sell it.
The local dealer told me on the high end for private sale the car would be worth $1,600, but he said I should put the value at $850 and include copies of estimates for repairs needed.
I work out of town and I really don't have time to run back for a dozen people wanting to buy it, then offering much less than Medicaid says it's worth. Also, I can't answer my phone when I'm at work, so they would have to leave a message then wait a couple of days until I have time to call back.
The lawyer told me Medicaid Estate Recovery will demand I send them any funds left in my mom's bank account and the value of the car. He said they will expect me to sell the car for whatever figure I put on the paper, so I don't know what happens if I put down a figure more than the car is worth. If I put the value too low, I could be shorting Estate Recovery $1,000 that they should have had. On the other hand, if I advertise the car for sale for $2,500, somebody could think that I'm selling it cheap.
The lawyer did say to use the tax value as the value of the house. Medicaid paid for my dad to be in the nursing home and he passed away back in 2008. His was on Medicaid in the nursing home and his care easily exceeded the value of the house but Medicaid allowed my mom to continue to live in it. The lawyer said we could run into a problem because my mom created the Life Estate right after my dad passed away.
The lawyer said we are not using my mom's will, he said my mom had a POD on her bank account so I could transfer the money to an account in my name to pay bills, the house has a Life Estate so all I need is her death certificate to have the house put in my name and he said since the car was of low value I could have the car titled in my name with an affidavit.
Nobody I've talked to has a clue how Medicaid works.
I am really so sorry you have had all these problems. But I have asked, as of others have questions you have not answered. You keep starting a new thread instead of staying with the first one. Gets very confusing and if you stay with one thread you wouldn't have to keep repeating your info.
I asked on one of your recent postings if Mom was ever OKd for Medicaid. Have they actually paid her NH charges. The answer to this hinges on if you will need to pay Medicaid back. If Medicaid has paid nothing towards Moms care in the NH then there is no recovery. But it does mean Mom has a balance due with the NH.
Here is the post that I answered some of your questions.
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/do-i-need-a-lawyer-to-assist-with-medicaid-estate-recovery-or-just-give-them-what-they-want-469347.htm
I know all this is very overwhelming, I have been there but I think you are putting the cart before the horse. If Mom did receive Medicaid and they did pay the bill its going to take a while for Medicaid to try and recover. My Mom passed September of 2017. I personally had to contact them in January of 2019 that Mom had passed and the house was up for sale and if they wanted their money, they needed to place a lein on the house. I received paperwork on Jan 30 to fill out and the lein was not placed until April of 2019. (House sold July 19) If I had not called them, I may still be sitting here waiting because they had no record of her death. Recovery is a whole different dept. My local office could give me no info and referred me to Recovery.
You need to stop stressing about this. Until you hear from Recovery you can't do anything. As I said before, you will get a form to fill out and sent all info needed. Really, the car is not driveable, its 25 years old. Most cars that age have been junked. Keep records of what bills you paid and again...that 2k she spent down to is hers and becomes part of her estate. IT DOES NOT GO BACK TO MEDICAID. But I would hang onto it.
I would at this point get the house in your name. Start with a Title Agency. They will do a search and make sure the house has free and clear ownership. They even be able to explain the Life Estate you have. I think they can help with transferring a deed. DMV will tell you what you need to change the title of the car over to you. Do it and when you get the money, fix it. The worst that could happen is Medicaid makes you pay the value of the car. You have a job now. All you need is liability insurance on the car because of the age.
If you have not been in contact with the NH since Moms death, I would call their billing office. See if there is an open balance on Moms acct. Also ask if there was a personal needs acct set up. If so, what is the balance and what do you need to do to withdrawal it. Do not let them tell you it goes back to Medicaid. As with the spenddown amount, it is part of Moms estate. It cannot be used to offset the cost of her care.
No, I am not an expert just someone who has been there and done that. If you want, you can PM me.
Have you actually gotten a Recovery letter from Medicaid?
To find an exact value of the car you go to the Kelly Blue book on line. Since its not working, I would put in poor condition. The problem comes is does Medicaid look at retail value, trade in value or private sale. Retail will be the highest with private sale next, I think.
I have been following your posts. People ask straight forward questions but you really don't give straight forward answers. It is frustrating.
I'm working weird hours and they keep changing, I can't keep my waking and sleeping hours straight. I don't have time to deal with 20 people who want to look at the car then try to offer me a lower amount than Medicaid wants me to sell it for.
Just read your reply to SJ. I have dealt with a number of government agencies. I have had to get help for my disabled Nephew, my Mom and lately for a grandson getting him the Disability he deserves.
No I am not an expert, but please do what I suggested. Get in writing from the dealer what he feels the car is worth, $850. Include the estimate for repairs in writing from the mechanic. Then let Medicaid figure out from the info you have provided what you will need to pay. I really can't believe they are worried about recovering money from a 25 yr old car.
You can't just put down a figure, you need to back it up and getting it in writing from the dealer and the mechanic is your back up. You are making this so much harder than it is. Please read my previous post again.
For the Medicaid Waiver application, they didn't ask for the value of the house, they only asked if my mom owned her house. The nursing home requested 6 months of bank statements, the deed to the house and some other stuff, but my mom passed away before I was able to find the deed.
My mom applied for Medicaid eligibility on 02-06-2020. At this time she listed the value of her car as $2,500. She listed the value of her burial trust as $3,000 but when she passed away, I learned it was $7,500. She put $200 for her checking account, $100 for cash on hand and no mention of her house. Her income from SS was listed as $1,800 when it was closer to $1,200. I didn't move in with her until March and the application for Medicaid Waiver was made in October. She was admitted to the Nursing Home the end of May and she passed away July 14.
My dad was in the nursing home back in 2008 just before he passed away. I know my mom applied for Medicaid for my dad at that time but I have no idea how much they paid, I know he was on self-pay for a few months until his money ran out. I don't know if they can still recover for what they paid for my dad or not.
Can I appeal, fight it in court or something if I don't agree with their findings or is their decision final?
Do what I said about the car.
Do what I said about the house. (to me it looks like u may own it but
let them determine that)
Get a copy of her last bank statement showing she has 2k or less in
the bank.
Do a cover letter using what I said about the car and the house. Then say you are enclosing her final bank statement showing that she only has 2k (or less) in the bank which is the spend down amount she is allowed and you understand is now part of her estate.
Is there anymore information they are asking for?
Once you have done this send it off certified mail. You will get a tracking # and look it up in a couple of days to see if it was delivered. Print screen that info. If you have a printer print it and attach to the paperwork.
As I said, its in their court now. If they need additional information they will write you.
Concerning an appeal. All the agencies I have worked with offer an appeal but its time sensitive.
Lets just see what happens before you worry about appeals or going to court. They may except what you send. Don't think they have the time to research your info. They may ask for more. You send it.
You can get a copy of the deed from your County seat. They have to be on file. Now I may be wrong but it sounds like u own the house because of the $1. Mom just had a right to live there till she passed. If the deed says your Mom owns it, I think that was an oversight. Like I said previously. Ask a title agency. I know a man who sold his Moms house without a lawyer or a Realtor. Just went to a title agency.
Really, there is no way of knowing if ur doing it right or wrong. Even the lawyers you checked with don't seem to know. I so hope I have helped and given u good info. As her child you are not responsible for any mistakes she may have made on her application. Oh, did you call the NH to see if there is a balance due. What Medicaid is recovering for now may be her in home care.
Again, good luck. And do come back and tell us how it works out.
Oh, don't worry about Dad. Mom would have had to deal with that back then.
The lawyer said my mom's estate is peanuts compared to the average amount Medicaid pays out for someone to be in a nursing home. The last tax value of the house is $25,000. The one thing we don't know is the total amount they are trying to recover, but I've been told they can recover from whatever my mom had in the bank and her car, but they would only get a few thousand total. I just can't see that they would waste time arguing if the car is worth $850 or $1,600. If they want $1,600 for the car, I may not be able to sell it unless I find somebody stupid enough to pay that much.
I don't want to put a value on the form for the house because at the bottom it says "total amount available for recovery" In my opinion, there is $0 left in the Life Estate because the Life Estate goes away upon the death of the grantor and the property automatically passes to the remainderman. As I read the law, the property has already passed and is not available for recovery.
I'm thinking just send the paperwork that shows the property is no longer in my mom's name.
The shop said not to let anyone drive it until repairs can be made as serious damage to the engine could result. Someone will have to give me the cash without being able to drive the car and bring a trailer to haul it on. The car is in my mom's name only, so I'm not going to spend my own money on repairs only to have to sell the car and give 100% of the money to Estate Recovery.
The mechanic said new tires, belts, hoses, a tune up and change the tranny fluid, would exceed the value of the car and then we still have to fix the problem causing the check engine light.
Ask the dealer to put in writing what he said, that he feels that the car is worth $850. Then get an estimate from the mechanic. Both should be on their letter head. Then write a letter with the cars info, 1997 Buick and the type like a LeSaber, etc. Then say that you consulted with (Dealerships name) and they surmised the car is worth $850. Then say that repairs to get it in running order would cost $500 (whatever the estimate was) so you feel the car is worth about $350. See information attached.
Now the house. Did they mention the house in the letter?
Was it even put in the Medicaid application as an exempt asset? If not, they know nothing about the house so go with lawyer and have the deed signed over.
If the house was put on the application, then send in all the paperwork concerning the sale to you for a dollar and the Life estate. (I think you should have been put on the deed and Mom taken off when you bought it for $1. So, thats an oversight) Again, write a letter saying that the house, you feel was put on the application in error. That in looking through Moms paperwork you found she turned the house over to you in 2008 after your fathers death. Please find paperwork attached.
Now you have put the ball back in their court. They will have to review and get back to you with their findings. So just wait for the next letter and see what they say. Hopefully, they will find you in the right. And if they do, you MUST come back and tell us. If they don't come here first before consulting a lawyer.
Now, you have the 2k that Mom has in assets. That is her estate. I will say again, Medicaid does not get that back. If Medicaid comes back and says she owes the 850 for the car, pay it out of the 2k. Then take it to get it fixed and pay out if the 2k. Now u have a car. I say this because, you can go to Probate and sign an affidavit saying Moms estate is under 20k (in my state). This will give u the ability to deal with anything you need to and you get to keep anything under that 20k. It does not get probated. You can check this out with Probate in ur County. This should give u the ability to get any money in her Personal needs acct with the NH if one was set up. Now this all comes into play if the house was not included in the application or if it was, that you have proven that you owned the house.
Good luck.
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