How does a family member convince someone that they are not capable of “being more mindful” when they have Alzheimer’s disease?

I am unable to edit my question. I tried, it was within the time frame for editing but it wouldn’t change it, even though I hit save edit. Oh well,,,

I was trying to rephrase my statement by asking for the best way to explain to a person that they are losing their capacity to “be mindful.”

Need, I'm so sorry to learn about your brother's diagnosis. I am experiencing something similar with my cousin, one who is part of the care team for my ancient turtle Aunt in FL. On my recent trip down there she was showing clear signs of memory impairment and resistance, illogic, lack of empathy, broken mouth filter and shadowing (her husband). So very not like her in the past. It is breaking my heart because she's changing so fast... dealing with her was exhausting.

You can only make a case to convince someone of something if they are capable of memory recall, and the use of reason and logic. Your brother is losing his, and he knows it but that won't help him "be more mindful". He's got mind-fail. You can no longer engage with him in the way you are used to in the past. It won't work.

Unless someone chooses to step in help your brother -- you know what the outcome will be since you've been on this forum for a while -- "someone" will need to go there in person for at least a week or (preferably) more to help him get his legal and personal ducks in a row, and set future solutions in place.

You also know that you can't get an uncooperative person to do anything against their will. So the change and decisions will need to come from the LOs around your brother. Your brother fits into a category called "Elder Orphan", of which there are many. Every family has at least one. This is how I wound up being PoA for my 2 Aunts (single, no kids of their own).

May you receive clarity and wisdom and peace in your heart on this journey. (((hugs)))

You can’t . My sister told me about 18 months ago that she thought she had dementia . Now often , she can not be reasoned with . That part is broken . Like your brother , my sister in the beginning was seeing her deficits . She no longer does , even if you try to tell her . Sounds like your brother is at that point as well .
I’m so sorry .

I suppose the best thing to do is to plan a trip to D. C. and see what can be done to help my brother plan for his future.

It’s hard to fathom dealing with this because he is so young.

I know his financial situation is complicated. As an investment banker some of his assets are tied up with business partners. He owns properties all over the world.

He’s going to need help with getting his affairs in order. I am not sure how involved that I want to be in all of this. He can’t do this by himself though.

He nearly died from colon cancer years ago, has had several heart surgeries, survived a life threatening stroke. He has diabetes.

He nearly died from Covid. He got it before the vaccine came out. D.C. was a hot spot for Covid. He was on a ventilator and in the hospital for a while.

He was mugged and beaten so badly that he was taken to the hospital. He has been through a lot. Not to mention that he’s already had a couple of driving accidents as well.

Now this, Alzheimer’s disease to deal with. It’s heartbreaking.

Yes, unfortunately it is almost impossible.
Denial comes in very, very quickly for most.
When my brother, living in Palm Spring in SoCal while I lived in SF in NoCal was first getting symptoms of dementia he KNEW something was wrong.
I on the other hand had no clue.
We were having these long conversations by phone and suddenly I was speaking to dead space. He was gone.
He claimed it was the phone and had the company out often but nothing wrong. Then there was the hallucinations which started at night, when he got up to use the bathroom. Said they weren't dreams and in fact they weren't but neither of us could figure whether waking dreams of what. His balance, poor over the years, became awful and when I visited for my yearly month with him the weight was falling off, I noticed he wasn't using deoderant and had lost his sense of smell, not understanding his tshirts DID smell. He was then 84.

I went home knowing something was wrong, but not what. And then got the call he was in the hospital after a single vehicle (his) accident in which his head was banged up badly. Lay in his neighbors arms saying "I KNEW something was wrong; I KNEW it".
He was diagnosed by symptoms with probable early Lewy's dementia, and together we got all the scans done, the neuro-psych evals, negotiated the system, chose an ALF, he made me his POA and the Trustee of his Trust and we set up an "allowance" account for him, transferring all bills and etc to me.
He KNEW what was coming, and feared the going out of control or not recognizing he was no longer capable. So he insured everything while he could.

While we both feared what was coming, and he hoped to die before it happened I told him that wasn't really in our control. It turned out he did die of a sepsis from a wound in his shin he hid and ignored. He was not unhappy about that. A week of treatment that didn't touch it and only made him hideously ill, a week of hospice and he was gone from me. An incredibly brave and sensivle man, as always he had been.

If your brother isn't willing now to act for himself and ensure things, it is almost certain he will leave it too long, and will be prey to every catastophy that can happen financially.
I don't know how you can convince him other than to make a trip and go though full diagnostic, help him get a Licensed Fiduciary on board who works through the courts, and get protected. You are too far away to do this for him, and it was TOUGH and the steepest learning curve I ever went through . I don't recommend it to anyone.

I sure wish you the best.

Oh, Need - 60!
Somehow, I pictured him as much older.

Do you think that when you visit, he would be open to making an appt with a Neurologist?

Or, maybe even make the appt now, and you could go with him when he actually goes?

Do you think he's capable of making those kinds of future procedural plans?

My heart breaks for you.

Would he appoint you his POA? Would you want the "job"?
Can you set up "auto pay" for routine bills?
For bills like the doctor could you set up a portal so that you could see pending bills?
There are Care Managers that might be able to do these things as well.
Things like this are difficult enough when you live in the same house or the same area I would think it is way more problematic when you are far away.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and suggestions. I’m a bit bummed right now. I think I will walk over to PJ’s for a coffee and a change of scenery.

Just really frustrated because I asked him not to come to our brother’s end of life celebration and that we understood that he shouldn’t be traveling. He didn’t listen and came home anyway.

I am pissed off that he is still driving. He rented an expensive car when he came home and wrecked it in the Windsor Court parking lot! He thinks that he can do everything like he did before. Flying on a plane, checking into hotels and so on. He acts like his accident is no big deal because insurance covered the damage.

It’s not just the Alzheimer’s disease, when he got shingles somehow it affected his eye, so he is seeing an ophthalmologist too. He mentioned something about his cornea. It’s just too much to deal with and he isn’t listening to anything that I tell him.

I am upset with myself for not being able to get through to him but I know that I am not to blame for his behavior.

I will take some time to think everything over while I am sitting in PJ’s. Will catch up with y’all later. Thanks again for letting me vent.

Oh I am so sorry to hear this.

I sent money to the wrong person by accident recently.. luckily to my daughter who said Thanks!!! Why?? (She returned it 😁)

Modern online banking can be hard - does take concentration. You are right to see this as a big red flag. It can open the gate to mistakes, fraud & scammers.

Has your Brother nominated a POA?

This will be the first important step.

The next will be that awful time the POA needs to financially take over.

I'm just trying to think what I would do.

Definitely take TIME to think. To plan. Don't go booking a flight just yet.

If you do start to plan a visit, who could go with you?

Who is or could be in your Brother's support team?

Did you mention a best friend?
Is there any other siblings? (I know you have sadly lost some).

I think that's what I'd do. Visit when the best friend or another close relative could also be there. Have a nice meal out.

Then have a casual lunch at your Brother's home & discuss 'paperwork'. Who would your Brother like to help him going forward?

Alternatively, it may be that due to his living far away, you decide this cannot fall to you. That's OK too!

Many ((hugs))

Oh, NHWM! That is so sad and scary!

I wish I had some good advice.

60? What a terrible thing.

They've ruled out other stuff, yes?

Need, remember that sometimes what looks like denial is really just not knowing that you are failing. It could very well be that he is far gone enough to just not realize the reality.

My dad's doctor told me that smart people can hide dementia for a long time, I imagine that really smart people, such as your brother, can hide it even longer.

May The Lord be with both of you during this new season in life.

Need,

My sister gave up driving and sold her car . Now she does not remember doing that and keeps talking about buying a car . She lives with her son. She had bad compression fractures of her spine and had surgery for it last Fall . She is still in pain and walks slowly with a walker . So my nephew keeps using that as an excuse . She has had a definite step down cognitively since that back surgery .

Unfortunately, he doesn't know how broken his mind is. He only knows about his erroneous behavior when the consequences are not as he expects.

If you are close to your brother, I would suggest a visit and see for yourself what is going on.

You might be able to suggest some things to him that make his financials more error-proof. For instance, the doctor bill could have been paid by credit card so that he can dispute the charge...or if he has time, he pays the doctor bill in person instead of electronically.

He needs to not use Paypal or Zelle for anything, money sent that way, is non-recoverable.

If he needs to be more mindful, does this mean that he might turn on the stove and forget that he turned it on?

At this stage, he could easily fall for a financial scam.

You mention he has several doctors. Perhaps a doctor can advise that he needs to get help with his finances, suggest that he assign a POA, and advise him to stop driving. Your brother might listen if it comes from a professional.
It may help him if you can be there in person. Having you there, it will be harder for him to hide his condition. Being aware that you see him and his mistakes could help him to acknowledge the deficits brought on by his condition and seek help.

When the mind is not all there, suggesting for someone to do a behaviour such as hiring an advisor may go to deaf ears. It is up to someone to step in and offer help if there is no POA. This could mean reporting to APS or convincing the person that you found an accountant and make plans. He may no longer know how to find someone and right now he acknoledges that he is aware that he is forgetful. Sometimes making the activity happen can be seen as a salvation and the person will willingly accept the offering. An yes, the person can make financial ruin in the blink of an eye and become homeless

It may not be intentional denial but a realization the he was not paying adequate attention to the task. It would be meaningless to try to "convince" your brother that he is incapable of being mindful or of being unable to do the task correctly. Help arrange appropriate assistance for taking care of his finances like having bills forwarded to a responsible party and making sure your brother 's financial transactions are supervised. Your just telling him he "needs help" won't get the job done.

A person with Alzheimer's is not cognitively functioning as if s/he was of sound mind.

You are not able to 'convince' the person. What you need to do is learn 'how' to communicate with a person who doesn't have their mental facilities / due to their brain chemistry changing and cells dying.

This will get worse. The 'best' you can do is educate yourself by reading, buying a book or two, going to / contacting an Alzheimer's Association for support and information. When a person has dementia, it IS like learning a new language.
Contact TEEPA SNOW.

This is not easy and most people are 'thrown' into this situation without any knowledge or training of what to do and how to communicate with the inflicted person.

In part, Alzheimer's / dementia means:

Alzheimer's disease is a brain disorder that slowly destroys memory and thinking skills, and eventually, the ability to carry out the simplest tasks. In most people with Alzheimer's, symptoms first appear later in life.

Alzheimer's disrupts processes vital to neurons and their networks, including communication, metabolism, and repair. At first, Alzheimer's usually damages the connections among neurons in parts of the brain involved in memory, including the entorhinal cortex and hippocampus.

Visit this site:

https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/alzheimers-causes-and-risk-factors/what-happens-brain-alzheimers-disease#:~:text=Alzheimer%27s%20disrupts%20processes%20vital%20to,the%20entorhinal%20cortex%20and%20hippocampus.

This is about brain science and what happens, i.e., (part of the link above):

What Happens to the Brain in Alzheimer's Disease?
Key biological processes in the brain
How does Alzheimer’s affect the brain?
What are the main characteristics of the brain with Alzheimer’s?
How do changes in the brain affect people with Alzheimer’s?

The healthy human brain contains tens of billions of neurons, which are specialized cells that process and transmit information via electrical and chemical signals. These cells send messages between different parts of the brain, and from the brain to the muscles and organs of the body. Alzheimer's disease disrupts this communication, resulting in widespread loss of brain function as many neurons stop working properly and eventually die

Key biological processes in the brain

Most neurons have three basic parts: a cell body, multiple dendrites, and an axon.
The cell body contains the nucleus, which houses the genetic blueprint that directs and regulates the cell’s activities.
Dendrites are branch-like structures that extend from the cell body and collect information from other neurons.

The axon is a cable-like structure at the end of the cell body opposite the dendrites that transmits messages to other neurons.

The function and survival of neurons depend on several key biological processes:
Communication. Neurons are constantly in touch with neighboring brain cells. When a neuron receives signals from other neurons, it generates an electrical charge that travels down the length of its axon and releases neurotransmitter chemicals across a tiny gap called a synapse. Like a key fitting into a lock, each neurotransmitter molecule then binds to specific receptor sites on a dendrite of a nearby neuron.

This process triggers chemical or electrical signals that either stimulate or inhibit activity in the neuron receiving the signal. Communication often occurs across networks of brain cells. In fact, scientists estimate that in the brain’s communications network, one neuron may have as many as 7,000 synaptic connections with other neurons. The early loss of synaptic connections is one of the main hallmarks of cognitive decline associated with Alzheimer's.

Gena's comments: Stay calm, do not argue, set limits (on phone or in person) as this will drain you if you do not take control. First, you need to understand what you are dealing with and how to manage. The above referrals will help you.

Gena / Touch Matters

When mom would beat herself up about how "dumb" and "stupid" she was when she'd forget something, I'd remind her she was doing the best she could. Thst old age was hard for all of us, then I'd change the subject.

AD and the dementias are frustrating for the person when they're still cognizant enough to know something is off with them. Ask him how YOU can help him, either with the bills or by setting up a simpler system to pay them. Maybe you can hire someone to go over during the first week of the month and get his bills together for him, in envelopes with stamps on them. Or set up a dry erase board with bills he owes, due dates, and a box to check off when they are paid. An aide to help him with whatever he needs help with. Maybe fly down for a few days to see what's going on and get a helper on board?

This is tough stuff, I know. Good luck and Godspeed, dear one.

Need: Unfortunately my late sister in law, who suffered from Alzheimer's, hadn't a clue that anything was wrong with her even when she entered a one-way highway clearly marked in red 'DO NOT ENTER' with two of her grandchildren in the back seat of her auto. Decades before dx, she also failed to get routine tests like mammography and colonoscopy.
Prayers for your brother.

If he's aware that he has problems in this area, you might suggest a trusted relative or friend (a really GOOD FRIEND) might be appointed as a POA "just in case" to co-sign or observe when he is working on his finances. Might be smart to tie him up with a lawyer or community senior advocacy agency. It's helpful that he is aware of his problem and you should "strike while the iron is hot" while he is aware that there is a problem.