How to talk to M-I-L about excessive drinking?

By the way i think CM has a pretty thick skin so I doubt she is offended by this attack.

I wonder whether her beer drinking is her HRT (with, or without knowing it). Many doctors years ago used to tell women to drink beer after menopause for its pro estrogen qualities.

BTW, Coors Light is as watered-down as it gets.

I've been dealing with elderly alcoholics for a decade now (my parents). I'm pretty well versed as a result. One is now in an ALF (no longer drinking). Everyone at the ALF is bored and lonely. How could you not be? What is there to look forward to? My aunt moved to an ALF and gave up smoking - mostly for financial reasons. In it's place she now walks across the street to the convenience store and gets mountains of candy. She's gained weight and that's causing its own problems. And...she's bored and lonely. ALF's aren't happy-happy places where the residents are active and engaged all day, despite what the brochures and sales people tell you. I hope MIL is enjoying her beer stipend.

Upstream, clearly you are clearly out of your mind.  I will apologize to no one, because Upstream and Countrymouse are VERY  WRONG on this one. This is a shame, because Countrymouse usually gives good advise.

Why should you care? This is a quality of life issue for the MIL AND for the rest of the family.  Heavy drinkers, which the MIL is, don't have a good quality of life. Inevitably there are reasons why people engage in heavy drinking. Is it because of depression or anxiety, which can be easily treated? Is it because alcohol deadens pain--and inadequately addressed pain IS something that needs to be addressed. Is it because the MIL is bored? Again, that should be addressed--and if that's the case, it's important for the family to talk to the social worker or whoever is the family llaison where she's living. She can have a better quality of life IF she gets appropriate help and the drinking problem is addressed. Another thing--heavy drinking, especially in the elderly does affect how medications are metabolized. Many medications don't mix well with alcohol. Elderly people metabolize alcohol much slower than younger people, adding to the mix.

Why Al-Anon? It's clear that the questioner is still in denial about the severity of the situation. I explained why I think that the questioner and husband should be attending Al-Anon. Al-Anon groups go all over the place. Since Al-Anon is member run and led, the quality of support does vary from group to group. Just because you visited an Al-Anon group that didn't meet your needs doesn't mean that Al-Anon is bad or not appropriate. If you don't feel comfortable with 12 Step Groups, there are support groups for families of alcoholics / heavy drinkers that are not 12 Step out there, but they are much harder to find and are generally in larger cities. Al-Anon is good at teaching family members about defense mechanisms, limit setting and other practical ways to deal with someone with an alcohol problem. You learn how to change your responses in the face of craziness. You learn to identify what you can change and what you can't, take responsibility for yourself and your own emotional health. 

I'm concerned with the 'just let her drink, it doesn't matter'. As I have said before, it DOES matter. Those who say otherwise are ignoring what science and medicine have to say. 

It is a shame when someone who generally gives very good advise gives horrible advise. Countrymouse should be ashamed of herself. To Upstream, you're out of your mind.

DofNarcissists: Who cares if she's addicted to alcohol? You're gonna die of something... She's living in an ALF and is probably bored and lonely. At this stage of her life, quitting alcohol consumption is not likely to make a big difference. Sending the family to Al-Anon will just make everyone miserable for nothing. Let the poor woman enjoy, as long as it's not affecting her motor skills to the point where she is a fall risk or otherwise can't take care of herself. Everyone needs a vice, especially someone who is alone and doesn't have much to look forward to.

Dam lost my post but painting MIL as a non functional drunk is not what this is all about. it is concerned family members who care for her wanting to keep her safe.
Of course it would be nice if she left the booze alone completely but we don't know why she needs to drink. It could be loneliness, fear of her deteriorating condition or simply to reduce pain. She sounds as though she is listening to her family and appreciates the advice and is trying to act on the advice she is getting. TG's SIL was another story. He was acting out and generally being a jerk. MIL is just being MIL and probably the family had no idea how much she was drinking until they stated helping round the house and dicovered the implies.

DofNarcissists:
You need to apologize to Countrymouse. She's always spot on!

Upstream, you are DEAD WRONG. The MIL is most likely an alcoholic--and that's according to the definitions given by the National Institute for Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. The MIL NEEDS to be evaluated by a mental health professional who is familiar with elders who abuse alcohol.

Countrymouse, you usually give good advise, but this time your advise is dangerously wrong. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Yeah, seriously, she doesn't sound like an alchie, the only real concern here is falls. If she gets her drinking down and is not a fall risk, let her enjoy...

See Tgengine's recent post about discovering what his son in law - now gone, thank goodness - was up to for an illustration of what secretive alcoholism looks like. It isn't sipping your way through two or three or even four bottles of cold beer over six hours of a warm evening, it's covertly mixing vodka into your breakfast o.j.

Ronda's MIL is drinking more than is good for her, as in more than the various health agencies recommend, which for standard-sized ladies would be 1 or max 2 units of alcohol a day, or 1 or max 2 regular sized Coors Lights. It's probably half boredom, and half enjoyment of what she likes. So finding something else she likes drinking, alcohol free or very much reduced, would be worth doing.

Reacting as though this lady is having lost weekends, drunk-driving, waking up in flop houses, breaking into liquor stores or blacking her boyfriend's eye..? - not so much.

RondaR, you're still in denial. 'Only 2-4 Coors Lights' a night is still WAY TOO MUCH. You shouldn't be 'happy' that your MIL is still a heavy drinker. Your MIL needs to be evaluated for alcohol dependence, preferably by someone who regularly works with substance abusing elderly. In all likelihood, she won't like the idea of getting mental health care, but that's tough. She needs it. You can't trust any info that comes out of the mouth of a heavy drinker, especially when it relates to drinking. They will lie and hide their drinking from those who care. That's the nature of the disease she has. She needs to be treated for alcohol abuse--and that's the reality of the situation. She might be a candidate for controlled drinking. However, in order to get well, she will have to stop drinking, and get mental health counseling. Many people who once were problem drinkers can drink OCCASIONALLY, such as a glass of wine with supper, but only after they deal with the issues that drove them to drink and fully accept responsibility for the consequences of their drinking. There are some people--and this applies mostly to 'dual diagnosis'--that is, problem drinkers who have major, chronic psychiatric disorders--who can never, ever touch alcohol ever again.

You and your husband NEED to attend Al-Anon meetings (or another support group that is for families of problem drinkers). In Al-Anon, you will learn about family dynamics related to alcohol. You will learn about denial--which you clearly still are in. You will learn how to set boundaries and be more effective in how you deal with your MIL. You will learn about tactics women who have a drinking problem use and how they differ from the tactics men use. You will learn a lot from others who have a family member who is an alcoholic. You will learn about how loved ones enable heavy drinkers, such as making excuses for the behavior, minimizing the seriousness of the behavior (which is what you did in this post), etc. Also, support group members generally know about the various treatment options available in the area and have 'war stories'. At this point, you NEED to attend a support group for family members of heavy drinkers at least once a week, so that you can begin to address how your MIL's drinking has affected you and your husband. It might be smart for you and your husband to attend a support group together and for both of you to attend another group alone. There are Al-Anon groups that are just for women.

* * * UPDATE * * * We had a heart-to-heart talk - focusing on our primary concern of her future health, that we want her to be healthy and happy, and explaining that we fear that she might fall and break a bone after drinking, and then end up in the hospital. She said she's heard stories of falls, broken bones, hospital stays, etc. from her new friends at the I-L residence. When i suggested that she alternate: one Coors Light and then an O'Douls, she thought that was a terrific idea and admitted that sometimes it was just the habit of reaching for a "cold one" while watching tv in the evenings that caused her to drink. Happy to report that on average she's only drinking 2-4 Coors Lights a night now - instead of her top number of 7 or 8.

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful answers. It is so helpful to be in a community with other people who have dealt with these challenging issues.

As others have said, it’s going to be up to her to decide to stop as long as she is independent. Is her drinking hurting anyone other than herself?
This sort of reminds me of when the Dr. told my 70 year old Aunt that her 90 year old husband should stop drinking. Uncle Dave was from Sicily and had his grappa and a raw egg for breakfast, another small glass of grappa with lunch and dinner and at 8:00 had a beer and went to bed. My Aunt told the Dr. “He’s 90 years old, how much longer will he live if he stops?” “I’m not about to deny someone of his age one of the few things he enjoys.”

Oh Digital banker, "The best thing about this wine is you don't have a hangover from it if you do get drunk because it's all natural." The alcohol content of home made wine can be sky high!!! and you most certainly get hangovers from elderflower wine!
The only thing to say about alcohol is that the equivalent of 2 small glasses of wine or beer a day won't kill you, but any more will hurt your brain and liver in the long term. Avoid spirits like the plague.
Many people switch to beer and find non-alcoholic beers that taste just as good as lagers. Thirst is satisfied and no hangovers!

Wow digital !! I am a respiratory therapist, and in all my years I have never heard that one. Glad to think your neighbor probably never got any respiratory issues. Thanks for that information.. You made my day :)

As long as your MIL is not driving, or causing an embarrassment to herself I say let her enjoy the last chapter of her life with her beers. Don't make it your mission to change her otherwise it just becomes your obsession and you will get angry when you see her open another one. My father was a functioning alcoholic and drank till the day he died at 89. I was amazed how he was mentally sharp after all those years of whiskey, beer and smokes! But once I let it go our relationship got better. I realized he had only so many years left and I didn't want it to be all about his drinking. I did try to get him to switch from whiskey to rum. Whiskey can bring the worst out in people where rum is a happier drink. But to no avail, so I don't think you will be able to switch her beers out. I'm glad she is enjoying the Independent Living life style. She may not need to drink as much since she wont be as lonely and may be busy with all the activities that go on. Best of luck.

I strongly agree that a little bit of wine is definitely good for the heart, specifically red wine from what I read somewhere years ago. A little bit goes a long way. When you abuse it, it becomes a problem as with any alcohol.

One time I had to use a little bit of alcohol as a medicine after developing a bad case of bronchitis. I had no doctor, no money for medicine or insurance to pay for treatment so I was unable to handle this any other way except to have run into someone who was able to help. I had access to a bottle of crown royal blackberry brandy. There were some people there I knew and I showed them how to properly use alcohol as a medicine. I got a juice glass and poured a small amount and then drink it on the spot because I explained that this would kill the bronchitis and I had explained my situational circumstance. I only had about 10 minutes tops to get to a bed and much to my surprise I was awakened by the dislodged phlegm from my respiratory system and it all came up in one great big wad. No more bronchitis, and this was only a matter of hours as opposed to having to wait for days on an antibiotic. If you look back in history, even hospitals at one time used alcohol as a medicine, there's a history of this. It's possible to use it as a medicine if used properly and not abused. One time it actually saved my life and there was a time when a friend of mine was a baby and alcohol saved his life from devastating bronchitis when doctors gave up on him. If you use it only as a medicine and use it sparingly, it won't work against you

Years ago I had a neighbor who was a very heavy drinker and constant drunk. He always complained of being in constant pain but I just couldn't connect the dots until later. Did you know that too much alcohol leaches calcium from your bones and even your connective tissues? I don't know if he was eating that well, I know that when my mom was alive she didn't seem to eat very much so I'm thinking this neighbor of mine who was drinking was constantly hurting because his body was probably attacking itself  for nutritional and survival purposes. If you don't give your body proper nourishment, it's going to steal it from other areas of itself just to survive. Alcohol unfortunately tends to speed up this process and even  dissolves much of what's already in your body by causing a chemical in balance. Did you know that too much alcohol can even cause a type of Alzheimer's? It's true believe it or not! I think that my bio dad may have developed alcohol related alzheimer's and this is only one thing that can happen when someone constantly abuses alcohol for long enough because yes, it will go on to another stage of brain damage. Depending on how long you drank by time you decide to go dry, I don't know how easy it is to actually repair that damage even through healthy lifestyle changes. Depending on how long you even have left to live versus your conditions will depend on whether or not you're able to reverse alcohol damage. I personally don't want to find out because I don't want to follow the same path my parents did and I won't likely see them in heaven either. The best way to prevent alcohol related damage is to just never pick it up in the first place. If you need it as a medicine, only use it if you absolutely need it but only in very small premeasured amounts if you're one of those kinds of people who knows the right way to use alcohol. If you're not one of those kinds of people, just don't touch it to start with. I don't know how many people out there have the smarts to only use it as a medicine, but if you have this ability, you have a very unique gift. Another area where a little bit of wine or other alcohol is good if used properly is if you happen to struggle with phlegm, especially if you're an asthmatic like I am. I have post pertussis cough variant asthma and a friend who knows how to make homemade all natural wine. The best thing about this wine is you don't have a hangover from it if you do get drunk because it's all natural. I prefer not to overdo it but I will have a little bit once in a while on very rare occasions since I am asthmatic and I can blast away excessive phlegm from my respiratory system with just a little shot glass full of my friend's homemade fruit wine. A little bit of wine once in a while is actually good for you as long as it's not abused. The same rule goes for other alcohol if it's used correctly

There are medical treatments that will deal with alcohol dependence, but you have to look to find them, that have a better success rate than AA. Maybe going to lite and then fake beer might be a start.

My mom is 87.. and she drinks 2 glasses of port wine a night. Always has, always will, and even in rehab for CHF she had her wine ( dr had to OK it) That old adage about wine being good for your heart! It is what it is,,, and it makes her happy at 87 so I;m not having that fight! If she is not unsteady,, this is a fight you may not win. I worked for awhile in a AL, they had wine with dinner if you wanted it, and cocktail parties weekly. She is not in MC,, so she has say in her behavior. But I do agree with idea of trying "near beer" ..

Your have gotten some very good answers here (except the one from cetude). They vary somewhat in what they advise, but they are all worth considering and thinking about. I hope you are still with us, RhondaR. We'd love to hear what you decide to do, and how it works out for you.

If you want a good relationship with your mother-in-law, don't go poking your nose into her business. Let her live out her rest of her life, the way she wants. Either you accept her for what she's or move her out. Trying to modify someone else's character or habit patterns, even if it's for their own well-being, never works. That's how relationships begin to sour!

As a grown child of alki parents as well as an abuse survivor of those same parents, I can honestly say there's no talking people out of drinking when they drink excessively and live as constant drunks. Sometimes it takes them hitting rock bottom and being forced to realize what they are doing and how it's affecting them before they decide to get help. Sadly, I don't recall my parents ever getting help, and furthermore they never made it right with me. All too often those kinds of people like my parents were normally don't change. They're the ones who must face the consequences, especially after they die and must face God and give an account an answer for everything they ever did wrong. When someone has made up their mind to live drunk, you can't change their minds. You can't even convince them of what's going to happen to them as a result of alcohol. Alcohol dissolves many things, believe me! It dissolves family, relationships, jobs, bank accounts, and assets unless you're one of the very few who happens to have loads of money, which my dad actually had much to my surprise. He worked his whole life for Ford and always drove drunk to work. I don't know how he kept from being fired, all I know is he must've been a very high functioning alcoholic. I know he also had some other things he was doing on the side but I don't know how many of them he may have been earning money for but by time he died he still had his house and a life insurance policy. Sometimes people who live as constant drunks go broke just like when people gamble but other times you just have a money reserve, which can keep drunks going as was the case with both of my parents, dad was the only provider. Sometimes people go broke but other times they amaze us when they happen to have a money reserve somewhere to keep themselves going

In your specific case, I must honestly say when dealing with a full-blown drunk, you'll never a very good relationship with them and I'll explain why: 

They do stuff drunk they won't do sober and then when they're sober they either don't remember it or they downright deny it out of fear or embarrassment. Alcohol affects people a little bit differently depending on each person. Something people do crazy things, some may seem sane and become violent where as others may just lay down and sleep it off. Sleeping it off is actually better than anything else because you're really of no use anyway when you're drunk nor are you that good of company. Instead of kicking someone out if they're one of those kinds of people who would sleep it off, you may as well accommodate for those kinds of people. Instead of kicking someone out if they're one of those kinds of people who would sleep it off, you may as well accommodate for those kinds of people and permit sleep. As long as they don't become violent or start doing crazy stuff, then it's no problem if they need to lay down and sleep it off. If you kick them out, they're going to find somewhere else to sleep and it may not be safe. Therefore, if something bad happens to them, it's your fault for not seeing to their safety. Finally, you would be just as bad as allowing that person to drive drunk and another area I frown on is those who take advantage of an incapacitated person such as a drunk female. I don't condone the abuse of drugs or alcohol by no means but I do seriously frown very heavily on those who would take advantage of those who are incapacitated by such means. 

Consuming alcohol is very dangerous for an elder because of the following:
#1 They're addicted.
#2 Mixing meds with alcohol is a huge NO NO and protocol is given NOT to by their doctor.
#3 It presents a greater fall risk.
#4 It's harder for them to stop the consumption.
#5 It's very damaging to the liver and other organs.
#6 Present this scenario to her, else she's going down a deeper hole.

5-6 light beers over a 24 hour period is really not that much and she certainly won't listen to reason. At least some of the smoking has stopped which is a step in the right direction.
she is getting regular good meals which is another good thing.
it certainly would be a good idea to let her Dr know about the drinking but don't expect him to be able to stop her. Short of a court order sender her into rehab and even then she would start up again as soon as she was released. Just be thankful she is not using hard drugs and don't enable her. I would not labor the point at this point just make sure MIL is properly taken care of and when and if and when the worst happens all you can do is deal with it. I don't drink or smoke yet my hip broke six months ago. It won't stop me doing things I want to do even if there is some risk involved. i am just extremely careful. Let MIL enjoy however many years she has left on her own terms.

HI Rhonda,
I am so sorry that you are worried about this with your Mother in Law. I have many dysfunctional drinkers in my life, some sober, some not so much. I agree with Bob that there is not likely a talking solution.
It sounds as if she is dependent on the alcohol. She is a grown woman doing what she wants to do. You can have a gentle loving conversation stating that it concerns you that she is drinking a six pack a day. But only do that with the knowledge that you cannot change her behavior. You can plant the seed, but it's her garden and she will determine what to do with it.
If she were 50 years old and drinking/smoking etc. in this way what would be your reaction? Our parents being elderly doesn't necessarily give us any more sway over them than over any other adult we love.
Good luck
Margaret

If she doesn’t get rides from a taxi service, how does she get the beer?
Unfortunately, it’s terribly unlikely that she’ll quit. She sounds like she’s going to continue to do exactly as she pleases.
Unless she’s getting into trouble where she lives, I’d try not to worry about it.😑.

Save your breath (and the stress). It will do no good.
Write a letter (not a phone call or email) to her doctor. State how many drinks she has a day (don't underestimate). Explain that she will not stop drinking and ask the doctor to adjust her medications accordingly. The letter must become part of her medical record and that makes the doctor treat it seriously. You are so right. If she has a serious fall, it's off to the SNF and drinking there can be a challenge (something you might use in your argument to MIL - if you get into one dispite your best efforts).
If you are buying the beer, make the next batch some brand of non-alch beer that you're pretty sure she's never heard of. If she drinks it and says nothing, WIN-WIN. If she does say something, just say 'sorry, I didn't notice'. You'd be surprised how many heavy drinkers I've seen who have (sneakily) been switched to non-alch beer or wine and never noticed. It doesn't feel right, but if everybody's happy and healthy, I can sleep at night.

My MIL passed away almost a year ago. She was a widowed former nurse, creative, competent, lots of fun, very social, and loved being in control of life's adventures and activities. As she approached 90, she lost those controls and developed vascular dementia. Confined to a wheelchair, going blind, with hearing impairment, and breaking bones consistently. She fought the aging and deterioration of her physical abilities tooth and nail. She took her frustration out on her youngest daughter - her caregiver. She lived in a granny flat attached to SIL's home, with accessible door between their living rooms.
She was a remarkable woman and we had been great girlfriends since my entry into the family about 50 years ago. On opposite ends of the country, we talked by phone almost daily. One problem that arose: her love of wine and a good Manhattan contraindicated daily doses of OxyContin and Vicodin. Eg., one day she had a Manhattan, fell out of her wheelchair, broke another bone, was hospitalized. Her tale to me, "I had a drink, that's the last thing I remember, and I woke up in the hospital." She had two part time caregivers during the week (Angel SIL worked full time outside the home) and as a very strong personality, convinced one to buy wine and help her hide it from SIL. When she started accusing SIL of stealing the bottles, we discovered her deceit and realized she totally forgot SHE had finished them off.
Ultimately, gathering from across the country, my husband, his brother, SIL, and her husband held an intervention. (Another daughter was not included because she bought into her mom's anxieties and false beliefs, and continually sabotaged her sister's efforts at maintaining as best a quality life for her mother as she could). During the intervention, we recognized how she felt that drinking was the one big pleasure she had left, but how she still enjoyed socializing and having visitors, going to church, on outings. We talked about how the medications mixed with alcohol could cause more falls, possibly a stroke, and how she would not want to be locked into a body which couldn't move or speak. It was an emotional tearful meeting. She agreed to stop drinking. Two days later, we gathered with her caregivers, explained the problem, asked that they not facilitate her manipulations, and show us where the bottles were hidden. Both were relieved to have our support. MIL got on board reluctantly, obviously feeling trapped by the open communication. With time, she became accepting and stopped mentioning how she wished she could have a drink. Sadly, she passed away several months later, and is missed so very much.

I can certainly relate to the challenges of addiction, in addition to all the other challenges of old age. I've been trying to get my dad to stop smoking since I was 10 years old, and not even watching my mom die from cigarettes has made a dent in his addiction. The only thing that's helped is that, as with your MIL, he is in a place now where he can't smoke inside--though not even that would stop him if he could get to the store on his own.

But working in our favor is the fact that he can't, so when we go to the store with him I have to actually physically restrain him from going to the cigarette counter. We did allow him to buy two liters of whiskey though last time we were with him, not knowing that most of it would be gone in a week! So its another thing we have to be more careful with.

Just as we now give him his cigarettes to smoke as a special treat when he's with us, and don't let him bring any back with him, can you provide MIL with her booze supply? As has been suggested here, maybe you can be her supplier and only provide nonalcoholic or low alcohol content beer. I think you said you live 2 hours from her; maybe there is a Beer-of-the-month club that carries a low-alcohol version that you can sign her up for. Maybe she'll enjoy not having to spend money on it herself, and getting it for free will make her not mind not getting her favorite brand.

You can save your breath trying to reason with her; the only thing you may be able to do is change her environment to prevent the problem behavior. As we say in positive dog training, "set her up for success." Good luck.