My grandmother is nearly 99 and is in a nursing home in another state. My dad has POA for her and has handled all her bills for her for at least 2 yrs. Before that he semi lived with her, cooking and taking her to appointments. He is now terminally ill and in a nursing home. He will be going to hospice, soon. He has end stage liver disease and his organs are shutting down. He can’t handle his mother’s affairs anymore. There is no secondary POA but the obvious person to take over is my uncle (in yet another state). He is already named as secondary executor of her will if my father passes first.
I have to video chat with my grandmother to try to convey just how serious my father’s condition is. I know dad has called her and told her he won’t be getting better-he had to be blunt because she kept saying she hoped he would get better. She doesn’t want to believe it because he’s the son who actually would call and visit. He’s also her baby. He has months to live. I don’t want to lie to my grandmother and would never, but I’m nervous about having to have this conversation with her. It’s awful. Have any of you had to do this and do you have any advice? I’ve tried calling her but she is so deaf she didn’t know it was me. She kept asking for my dad to call her because she is so worried😭
I should start as you mean to go on. You will, and I assume you will want to as well, be taking over your father's role in your grandmother's life, and I'm sure you will do your best with it. It's important to realise, though, that there are limits to what you can accomplish and not to wring your heart over not being able to replace him.
With tomorrow specifically, how much does your grandmother *need* to understand? I agree that you shouldn't lie to her, but you don't either have to burden her with more than she can handle. Begin with focusing on her, ask about her and how she's doing. You're calling her because you want to talk to her, not for any other primary purpose. Make that true, before you connect.
She will ask about your father, no doubt. You shouldn't need to lie. Tell her he is very unwell, and that his doctors warn that he will probably not be able to recover. That he isn't well enough to call but wants her to know he is thinking of her. That your uncle and you, between you, will be there for her.
Her son is dying. Don't disrespect her by trying to shield her from all grief, but don't keep shoving it in her face, either.
my Uncle is willing to take on the responsibility but my grandmother has said she won’t sign anything until she’s talked to my dad. They have spoken at least once about his situation and I hope my call will help, too. Although I am not authorized to do anything with my grandmother’s estate or finances I care about her and cat help but take on the additional stress. Sigh.
Your conversation with Grandma should convey that he's very sick and needs her to love on him now. The details aren't relevant unless she wants to know them, but I believe she has a right to know as much as she wants to know. The fact that you'll be telling her the same information your dad has already told her may finally help her realize this is reality. Of course, if she doesn't accept it, so be it, but you'll have given her the opportunity to say to him what she needs to say.
Frankly, we should always tell those we love how much they mean to us without a crisis prompting us, so you can always tell Grandma that she can tell your dad what she wants, and if he recovers, more the better. Tell her what she means to you "just because," while you're at it.
Good luck.
#2 There is no reason that uncle (with your father's authority) can't be a little proactive in setting up auto payment of almost everything, or hiring a geriatric care manager to keep on top of things, which would buy time if the paperwork can't be finished until afterwards.
#3 You have already stated that your father informed her in a blunt way that he is terminal, I'm very doubtful that a video call is going to be any more comprehensible to her than that. Has anyone thought of putting it in writing?
#4 Are you certain that she really has the cognitive capacity to understand and to appoint a new POA?
"She does need to know because she needs to change POA. I can’t take on that responsibility because I am already POA for my dad and will have to pay his bills, handle his healthcare, take care of his estate when he passes. I’m an only child and my parents are divorced so it all falls on me. I live 5.5 hrs away and have a family of my own that need me, too.
My Uncle is willing to take on the responsibility but my grandmother has said she won’t sign anything until she’s talked to my dad. They have spoken at least once about his situation and I hope my call will help, too. Although I am not authorized to do anything with my grandmother’s estate or finances I care about her and cat help but take on the additional stress."
I don't know how the PoA can be changed without both your grandma and father being present in front of a notary to sign the paperwork AND if your grandma has a medical diagnosis of dementia or ALZ etc, she won't be able to do it legally anyway. I think you are able to resign your PoA but not sure what happens after that step. This may be a question for an elder law attorney for your grandma's state. I'm so sorry for this distressing dilemma. May you gain peace in your heart.
People cling to hope. You can keep it real but with a focus on kindness instead of false hope. You can mention Dad's situation is serious but also that he has good care, he is comfortable/at home/being looked after (whatever is appropriate) & that you all love him. Maybe even that he feels blessed to have had her as his Mother (if that is not too mushy for you). Your goal will be to impart news with kindness.
Tell her you wish you could be with her for a nice hug. Tell her you are thinking of her & will call again soon.
(((Hugs))) for you for this hard situation.
Okay. One consoling thought (in a way) is that many, many people never get round to creating a power of attorney at all, and yet their affairs still do get managed. POA makes it tidier and easier, that's all. So if it should turn out that your grandmother just isn't up to this nothing terrible will happen; and so it's worth attempting but not worth hurting anyone for.
How far have you got with the paperwork? If that can be got ready, and then maybe your father could write a brief explanatory note to go with it, and someone at her residence could support your grandmother with reading the material in her own time, she may be better able to manage it.
You can see why she would want him to confirm that this is what she ought to do. Does he not have any "better days" when he could call her?
Will you be managing your grandmother's affairs from now on?
If not, you don't have to be as indepth about your your father's situation. If you can make a phone call to her from your father's room and if he is still able to speak, then let them talk together. You would probably want to preface to your grandmother that your father is deathly ill and can not manage more than a brief polite conversation. If she could not understand that, then just let her know your father is very sick and in a "hospital" and it doesn't look good. Expect her to offer hopes that he gets better since that is the "polite response" her generation was trained to offer. Call her weekly just to give her conversation opportunities and don't worry her by bringing up the topic of your father's health.
However, if he’s still capable your dad can probably set things up so that barring any big changes (unlikely at 99) his brother maybe even with your help can take care of all the things that need to be done. He can give authorization to the nursing home for one or both of you to make decisions and get information, he can even make one of you the contact person, he can give you both HIPPA clearance with all of her doctors as well as make sure you have that on file with the NH and local hospital, he can give one or both of you full access to all of her accounts and a list of all the bills that need to be covered. In fact it might be really beneficial for your dad to sit down and make a list, get this all done perhaps with one of you if possible and set his mind at ease about what happens to mom once he’s gone and even take that burden off of him now. As for your grandmother your dad has already told her what’s going to happen, wether it be hearing or simply what she can or can’t digest now I wouldn’t keep hammering that in if her brain is still adjusting to the idea, she knows he’s very ill and that’s enough unless she wants to talk about the known outcome. You can accomplish the same things by approaching it as helping your dad rather than preparing for his death. It might be much easier for her to accept and want to help him rather than take time to prepare for her care when he passes. People can have multiple POA, all three of us (her children) are POA for my mom, yes that isn’t always a great idea when siblings can’t agree or get along but it works well for us and enables us to share in the responsibilities and it seems like adding your uncle so he can take the burden off your dad “for now” might be less scary to your grandmother. She can help her son rather than prepare her affairs for his death and this way she isn’t cutting out the person she trusts most and if she needs to feel like he’s still in charge and running everything by managing what others are doing so be it, it will help her feel more comfortable when he is no longer “managing” her care. I wouldn’t lie when she asks for updates on his condition but I wouldn’t keep driving home the fact that he will likely pass before her and something you and your uncle could both do is make those phone calls to her, keep in contact as often as your dad has been up until now.
Im so sorry your family is going through this, sending you all the love and strength I can muster.
My understanding is that my father cannot give access to her accounts to anyone who is not authorized to do so. She has many accounts, cds, etc that need to be managed.
I've spoken to several attorneys and they all say my grandmother, if competent, must appoint her own POA.
I'm going to contact the attorney who drew up the current POA for advice but he was rather useless when I called him first.
You don't have to upset her by dwelling on her son is going to die.
My Dad is 96 and he doesn't remember my sister died so no point in reminding him to live it over and over again.
It's very sad and prayers for all.
Your Dad has told his mom so if she heard and understands then she knows.
Is there anyway that your Dad can talk to his mom once a week as long as he can, to prepare her for what's coming.
If she has dementia there may be no reason to dwell on it. (You could tell her that he is in the hospital now so he can not talk to her)
Tell her that "Uncle Roy" will be taking over her finances (Is "Uncle Roy" designated as a POA? If not that might need to be done pretty quickly and if grandma is not decisional that might be a problem. "Uncle Roy" might have to obtain Guardianship)
If grandma can make decisions tell her exactly what your dad has said, he is very ill, he will not get better. If she asks to talk to him tell grandma he is in a Nursing Home where he is being well cared for.
If she is aware of what is going on if you can do a video chat with her and your dad this way she can talk to him, see him that might ease her a bit.
Do you want Uncle to be your POA? IF she has not been diagnosed with ALZ or dementia - and if she agrees - notify the nursing home that Dad will no longer be POA. Then get an attorney to draw up new POA or have Uncle's lawyer draw up POA . Nursing home probably has someone to handle legal signings anyway (notary) - so they can take papers to her.
Anyone can resign as POA. If she has dementia - Uncle will have to get guardianship. Your Dad writes letter resigning. Uncle is 2nd executor anyway - so it just means a trip to court.
If she cant understand - just have Uncle handle things and remind her that Dad is no longer able so Uncle is now doing.
A lot does depend upon how well your grandmother understands things. Is her denial not wanting to believe the seriousness of her son's condition or really not understanding.
Telling her he is in the hospital will have to do for now. She can still wish he would get better even if you (and she?) know he will not. It's not helpful to argue with her about that.
If she asks for him after he dies, you will just have to repeat that he has died.
IF grandma is still cognitively able, she CAN assign anyone she wants to be POA. It doesn't even require dad relinquishing his or her to remove dad as POA. It is all dependent on her capability and willingness.
So, IF she is still capable, perhaps asking her to assign your uncle as a backup, so someone is available if dad is undergoing treatment might work. She doesn't sound ready to accept dad's imminent passing, so this might be an alternative. It's always best to have at least one alternative named.
If she isn't capable (attorney can determine that, if no Dx of dementia - mom was in early stage when we needed to make some changes, and the atty quizzed her and said she could still make the decisions), the next steps are dependent on what her status is. This would likely require assistance from an EC atty. It may require guardianship. Although that generally does take time (and $), the process can be sped up when there is urgent need. The atty can guide you/uncle with that.
If her only income is SS, that can be resolved by uncle applying to be rep payee. Grandma doesn't need to be there, no atty is needed and there's no fee to apply or be appointed. Technically this is the only legal way to manage someone else's SS funds (per Social Security!) If she has other income, perhaps it is already assigned to the NH? If so, no need to do anything with that. The financial issues can be dealt with in some way, with or without her input. The medical issues would need some kind of HIPPA paperwork, assigning someone to be the point of contact.
Best bet, if grandma isn't willing or is unable to make changes is to consult with EC atty and seek guardianship. That overrides any POAs, so there's no need for dad or grandma to revoke. Discuss emergency guardianship with the atty.
There's nothing worse than having a child of yours die. She is grieving in her own way.
God bless her.
And you.
It sounds as if speaking to your grandmother isn't going to be productive if she keeps asking for your father. Be gentle and kind but firm. Know you may get nowhere with her on your conversation.
Good luck and may God bless you.
You might start off with I'm calling because dad is sick. More sick than the last time she talked to him. Then see what she asks about. If she is still asking for him to call her, let her know it's not possible (if he can't). If there is a way for him to video chat the same way with her baby boy, I say arrange it as soon as possible. If he cannot do a conversation, then just let her know he is now sleeping all the time and not talking to anyone.
If you can get a POA document sent to the facility, and g'ma is still aware of decision making, perhaps you can ask her if she will sign the paper so that Uncle XX can do the things that your dad was doing. If not Uncle XX, then who would she like to take care of her business. The facility staff person could help her fill in the document and maybe even have a notary on hand to help. If not a notary,a couple of witnesses.
I'm sorry you have to deal with trying to explain things to g'ma. Blessings to your entire family at this difficult time.
Are you doing okay? You have some big things going on and it is important that you rest and eat well during this difficult time.
Great big warm hug!
I advise you to do what is necessary to insure what she needs, legally, and otherwise is done, and smile a lot on the video. No point in 'trying' to convince or explain anything to her. Tell her he is 'fine' or sleeping / resting now and will get in touch with her another time. Keep it short and simple.
Do not expect more than this. She is 99. Just smile and support her to relax. And you take care of business. gena