I need to know what to say to my granddad as he has expressed a want to end his life.

It would be beneficial for all concerned to have your father begin a study of euthanasia. There are many approaches available (in spite of a plethora of do-gooders); it is not just available for the well-to-do; and it doesn't have the risk and mess of a do-it-yourself er.
If you have a religious barrier concerning this methodology of finding relief, then it is probable that your ancestors supported the inquisition in the twelfth century.
Make sure your father reads some of the delightful testimonies of families who participated in touching and loving ways to send their relative to the next life.

its truly sad but death, is part of life. No one wants to die. No one wants to depend on other people to dress, feed and even wipe their butts. We all have our pride, even in death.
My dad told me that it was his job as a man and father to take care of me, not the other way around. The fact that he was also incontinence made the issue even worse. he didn't want his daughter seeing, or touching his private parts to change his diaper. that's all pride, and dignity.
so I can understand how they feel as I think I would feel the same.
when I first started to change his diapers he was so embarrassed it wasn't funny. I stopped and said to him to try and make it a little easier for him to
accept was" hey daddy, is this little thing where I came from" and he busted out laughing and said " yup but it was a lot bigger than" we laughed like hell.
mom on the other hand passed away three weeks after my dad. that was hard for me. my mom was the opposite of dad. she didn't care what you did as long as she didn't have to do anything. diaper change time she would open her legs and say to me "take me I'm yours".
when our family members and or good friends lives are coming to an end, their is fear of the unknown, panic, pain, and other unknowns that must go thru their minds, especially with the dementia and Alzheimers . So what they say might not be what they really mean.
all we can do is let them know we are there for them, love them, talk to them, and treasure the time you have left with the as the memories of them will always be in our hearts.

Anti-depressants may help.

My sympathies, love and prayers to you; I went through a similar but smaller degree to your dilemma.

Growing up, I went with my father to visit sick/capacitated relatives. Later in life, both parents and I discussed end-of-life wishes. So, I’ve known for quite some time how he felt about these issues and not being able to live a productive life.
Years later, he was diagnosed with cognitive impairment. I was able to secure a living will and durable power of attorney paperwork from the hospital library. With a notary of public as witness, we reviewed, answered, and signed the paperwork.
As the dementia progressed, so did his depression. Since I had already removed the guns from the house, he tried to use a pocket knife to threaten suicide. He cried, and begged God to ‘take him now’ several times a week. An antidepressant was prescribed and it improved his mental status.
Last year, he was hospitalized with aspiration pneumonia. Hospice was called and he would now need to have his food puréed and liquids thickened. I know he would not like to exist like this, so a DNR and comfort care order has been done. I know it will be hard for me to see him go through this, but this is about what I know about him and his wishes.
You have gotten a lot of good advice here from others.
When he brings up the subject again, talk to him at length about his wishes about future treatments and ask him if he would like to help you to get paperwork done to follow through with this. Seek out medical and legal professionals to get the proper paperwork done so that you can aid your grandfather (while he is still able to express his wishes) to not prolong his life. I will keep you both in my prayers.

I look at this probably differently than most people. Who am I, or you? to tell someone what to do with their own personal life. We may not want something to happen or we are sad they feel like they do. But in the end, the choice is theirs to make. It is THEIR life, not yours. If they are truly beginning to decline and know what is to come, and if this is what they want, then we must accept it. Some people cannot live with declining facilities, etc. I for one can't do that but at the same time, even though I am disabled and can't walk, at 85 I make myself do the things daily that I did many, many years ago. I refuse to give in to the pain and other problems. I am determined to do the two jobs I hold for l4 years and nearly 50 years (love them both), I take college courses, I drive and go out to eat by myself, have lots of hobbies I do, etc. In other words, I can't walk and hurt like hell but I have a very high functioning brain and as long as I can make myself continue to do the things I love to do, I'll be around - but if not, well you know where this will end up. But having my dear kitty with me would make me think twice. So, accept the way he feels and while not encouraging it, try to understand how this poor soul feels. He wants peace that he is losing daily. Don't do something to take that choice away from him.

I am not an advocate of suicide. I live with a person with inherited clinical depression.

CWillie, I didn’t say to stop offering food to anyone. What I said was if you didn’t want to live with this disease you could set up your health directive to read, ‘if I can’t feed my self then I don’t want to be hand fed.’ It’s not for everyone. Mine does not say that but my sisters does.

none of us are going to live on this earth forever. after seeing my mom going down with alzheimers and parkinsons, i totally understand a person saying they wish to die before they get to incontinence, being bedridden and wheelchair bound. she can't string a simple sentence together nor feed herself. i've told my husband and kids if i ever get a diagnosis of a dementia, they are to stop all meds that would prolong my life. pain meds only if needed. i'm a christian, but at some point we need to stop obsessing over trying to live forever on this planet. at what cost? it's not right that we hold on to people just to make ourselves feel better. let them go already.

I believe when they are ready to die they stop eating. Until then I don’t think they are ready. For those of sound mind, tho, can put in their health directive that no one is to give them Ensure ( which can keep them alive for over a year) , or feed them, if they can’t feed themselves. It’s a vicious disease and eventually there is no quality of life.

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this with your Granddad, but this thread is actually sort of "freeing" to me because I've really felt I'm the only person who feels this way... My Mom died a year ago this month - Nov. 13 - and I will always remember her strength, intelligence, dry sense of humor, compassionate heart, independence... That is, until the last two years of her life, which were an unfair Hell for such a woman in her 90's...

I don't have nightmares anymore - thank God! - about her end, about the way she screamed in pain for 3 days after a slip & fall in a NH when a CNA was giving her a shower, and she broke both bones below her left knee... She was in such pain because the hospital/nurses/doctors said "we can't give her any more pain meds because it could kill her!" I will always be greatful to the hospitalist doc who intervened and suggested hospice as a viable option, and allowed her to go in relatively painless peace. She was 97, she had macular degeneration, and was blind - in the days after the fall, the hospital suspected she'd had a mild heart attack, might have a clot in her lungs, her kidneys were failing, she would never get up again or have any quality of life, which had been little enough (actually no where near enough) for a long time before that fall.

She was in a nursing home after a prior fall when she broke her hip & wrist, and the repercussions of that fall in surgeries, mistreatment, gross negligence from several "facilities" left her disabled and in pain, confined to a wheelchair and absolutely miserable about her "life". I spent those two years right along with her in Hell, trying to comfort her and support her when she consistently lamented about the prospect of this being her "life" forever...

My previous "plans" for my own future options, my opinion about "end of life" quality, were solidified and verified. I live now terrified that I also won't have the choice she didn't have. I fear that I won't be able to take the final step for myself because of circumstances beyond my control. I agree with an earlier answer that we wouldn't treat animals the way we do people in hopeless and utterly inhumane conditions. We would be arrested for felony abuse and neglect... So yes, I think it's approaching criminal that most of this society does consider suicide under any circumstances as a mental illness, a weakness of character, whatever other excuses "we" can find to justify our need to prolong breathing lungs and beating hearts well beyond what nature would accomplish without medical intervention...

I do live in Oregon, with assisted suicide provisions, but even that law has restrictions and conditions which put that option beyond many people. I'm sorry this message is so harsh, but the reality is this should be no stigma to the memory of a loved one, or to those left behind... "Assistance" should be a human right for everyone, and the understanding and availability of this process should be a comfort to people who feel it is their final option and to the loved ones left behind. Everyone should have the right to determine what constitutes their choices and views on quality of life, and the solace of a dignified end to the inevitable...

Hi Hazel, it sounds like your grandpa is still aware enough to realize something is drastically wrong but is unable to understand what’s going on. He is trapped in his mind with a brain that is malfunctioning. I personally believe that each individual has the right to determine what is best for him/her. I don’t believe that we should over ride a terminally ill person’s wish to move on. That being said, if you aren’t in a state that allows assisted suicide, and your grandpa really is ready to leave this world, you can offer him love and support and reflect on how valuable his life has been to you and to others. As far as ending life goes, you can ask his doctor about putting him on hospice if he has an expected 6 months or less to live. All meds can stop for other ailments and he can be given only the meds needed for pain management. As one’s body prepares for death, you usually stop eating and then stop drinking. (This is very hard to accept and difficult to watch by the way....)The body will then begin to shut down and then that last breath will be taken and your loved one will slip into the next world.

My 84 year old father killed himself. He was going around outside with a walker and oxygen (COPD) and things were looking bad with his eyes, etc. He'd been in the hospital the year before for atrial fibrillation and got a pacemaker which didn't seem to do much good. He did not have dementia, at least not to our knowledge and not the kind my mother got a little later. He killed himself with a handgun, outside, but my mother was the one who found him. I can't imagine the shock. He didn't leave a note of any kind. For anyone. I was horribly shocked myself, I kept thinking there MUST be a note but we never found one for my mom, for me, or for any of my sisters. I think he wouldn't have done it - then - if he could have been sure that if he went back to the hospital and didn't get out, he could have still done it (not with a handgun but with assisted suicide). He had signed a DNR paper but I don't think he trusted his family of females to follow it if it became necessary. This is the dilemma - either you do it when you still have some wits about you - or - you wait too long and are in the hospital or somewhere you can't access the stuff for the method you've chosen. It's a sticky wicket.

I recall having heard (many years ago!) about a hospital providing a bottle of pain killers and telling the patient "you should only take one at a time; taking too many at a time could be fatal" and then the staff member walking out of the room knowing that the patient might overdose purposely.

Very, very difficult. But my initial thoughts are to have him participate as much as possible. Take out to a little cafe, go by a nice park, take him to a bakery, even to a museum. These are acts of love and even with dementia, I feel acts of love come forth and can be felt. It also keeps him, in some degree appreciating life. I had a woman in my apartment building who was getting dementia and I took to a senior center where they did volunteer work, mailing envelopes. She participated & had contact with other people and loved it. I feel that even with dementia, we should have people participate & appreciate life as much as possible. Again, you're going through a real difficult situation.

My mother who is 93 and in pain every day from debilitating arthritis and neuropathies, has often expressed a wish to end it all. She says she is so tired of waking up each day to the same pain. She hates taking pills and questions why she needs to if they are not helping her. She does not even want to consider taking an antidepressant other than what she already takes.
I have come to the point...after 10 declining years being the main caregiver, of wanting to grant her wish. It is apparent that she has no quality of life. She sits home all day with three nurses taking shifts and I do her errands, cooking etc.
It made me squirm to hear her speak this way...my faith is against suicide. Yet, I look back at the dogs we had who were suffering and how it was apparent that the only choice was to humanely put them out of their misery.
Sadly, if we are religious, we cannot depend on our higher power, to be humane. For whatever reason we mortals cannot fathom...our loved ones suffer and suffer terribly and long. It actually makes me question my faith and want to scream in frustration that more horrible days lie ahead of my mother and all who love her.
Right now, I try to validate my mother's feelings. I say to her, "Yes, you are tired and in pain and it must feel horrible and I am so sorry about this." Then, after awhile of reflection, I try to distract her with family news or asking if she wants to play a game. I know this falls flat but is the only way I can help her deal with her situation.

Since 1997, Oregon has had Death with Dignity.
https://www.oregon.gov/oha/ph/providerpartnerresources/evaluationresearch/deathwithdignityact/pages/faqs.aspx

the "system" would rather keep them alive as long as possible for the money the medical facilities can milk out of them. You could take him to his doctor and they will prescribe him a plethora of antidepressants to stop him talking like that. It's all about chemical control.

I am answering this only from my point of view & watching my mother suffer thru kidney failure. First I would like to say that I do consider myself somewhat of a christian, I dont like to walk around screaming it for my own personal reasons & I find that it can quickly be a turn off to some people. I can talk about the lord without scaring them to death..

That being said here is where I stand on this issue. I suffered a car accident in 1987 & believe me 42 surguries it has taken its toll. I do go to pain management every month & hate it with a passion. Everyone thinks that you can throw a antidepressent pill at the issue & that just isnt so. Yes, Im depressed, but mostly I hurt like hell 24/7.. Every single morning when I wake suicide is on my mind. Thats why I choose to respond to this message. Im sitting here now in terrible pain with hopes that my meds will kick in soon & I will feel better. But the issue remains, at what point will I choose to take my own life. Everyone says "O thats soo sad"., Well, yes it is but it is just how things are & they can't be changed. Neurpoathy in my feet so bad I can hardly walk, failed spinal fusion & failed cervical fusion. Yes, I could make the doctors richer by having more surgery, but an honest one will tell you that its not going to take care of the pain. And this Opoid crisis has totally destroyed the real ligitimate pain patients chances of getting help.

Then there was mom. Suffering from dementia & kidney failure. She lived with me & I took care of her for many years. She didnt want to go to a home & wanted to die in ours. I told her as long as I had a say in the matter she would/could do what she wanted. She actually stopped her dialysis on my 51st birthday. I could see it was taking its toll on her. She struggled to get ready every other morning, she suffered, she would often fall, but mostly she was in pain. A pain that many of us will hopefully never know how bad. When the Hospice RN came to talk to her on the day she quit dialysis she wanted to make sure mom knew what she was doing. When she ask that question, Now Miss Betty, do you know whats going to happen now? Do you know your going to DIE.. I about fell over..My heart was crushed..

But as much as we want to keep our loved ones here on earth it really isn't fair that we try and hold on to them for our own purposes. I think the real reason people talk about suicide is its a plea for help & sometimes its just a simple warning they are tired. In a sense mom took her own life by quitting dialysis. I just had to let her know that I supported her with what ever decision she would make while going outside out of her sight to cry over her decision. She passed 4 yr ago this month and she isn't in pain now.

I have some pretty crappy doctors but in a perfect world when I expressed how I was physically feeling they would listen, they would offer to help & not throw a nerve pill at me. Like I said, Im not depressed I'm in PAIN. Well, I guess I am depressed, anyone who suffers from chronic pain is depressed. I'm not suicidal I'm just a realist & I'm tired. I don't plan on jumping off that bridge just yet, for the moment I am planning on buying an RV and hitting the road before I do take that final leap. So when you granddad says things like this again, please PLEASE don't tell him he is being "SILLY", thats the WORST thing you can say. His problems are REAL & so is his PAIN. Perhaps just talk with him about what makes him feel this way & then see if there are things his doctors can give him to relive some of that. It may be that depression is his main problem, But JUST LISTEN & TALK with him not discounting anything he says. I remember mom asking me for a Xanax. I had to keep & give her all her meds. She said "Son, you just can't imagine what I'm going thru". No, even I couldnt imagine. She knew she was dying & had days. So shower him with love & listen to what he is saying. God Bless

Share with him the absolute love of God of Israel; a love not of this world. Be respectful yet firm. You do not know how God will use him, and how is working in him simply because we are not God but his creation. God lives in us by faith.....you may be the person the Holy One would like to use. These could be the most fruitful times of his, and your life.

I have not read all the responses yet because I did not want my thoughts to be skewed
I am with your Grandpa.
I have thought about what plans I would carry out. I do have a "stash" of pills that I would consider taking.
Knowing what my Husband went through with his Dementia, what I went through caring for him the thought of sparing someone the ordeal of caring for me is a sound one. The thought of me not knowing who I was, my Grandkids, my friends I can not comprehend that.
There are states that allow "medically assisted suicide" the problem that I see is by the time you are "ready to end it" you may not be able to administer the drugs yourself and someone else would have to do it and that is the problem. So there is the same problem with my "stash" of pills. When I would most need to take them I might not be able to.

As for your Grandpa. If you can talk to him about this it might help. (Both him and you)
Tell him there are a number of things that have to be done first.
He needs to sign a POLST or DNR. A POLST is more detailed than a DNR. Either document needs to be signed by his doctor.
**At that doctor visit you should also discuss this with his doctor are antidepressants a possibility?**
Then the next steps for you to take with Grandpa is..All the rest of the paperwork Will, POA and anything else that might be required. (Is the house his? are there properties that need to be handled?)
Then you need to take him so he can help arrange his funeral. What does he want as a service, casket and burial or cremation, any other details. He should help write his obituary.
If he can accomplish all this I would be amazed. I know my Husband would not have been able to do this.
It is possible that your Grandpa is thinking of suicide because he feels he has no control. Getting some of these things done might put some control back in his court and he may realize he has a lot to do before he takes his life. Also doing these things will take time and we all know with Dementia time is the enemy and by the time he completes these things he may not physically be able to do what he wants to do. Or he may "forget" about the idea of suicide.

Assisted Living and Nursing Homes are making a lot of money from dementia not being considered a fatal condition with only six months to live. My RN daughter put her father, my ex, in a nursing home. He has Lewy Body dementia, and just lies there--he doesn't watch TV, he doesn't read, he rarely talks--yet his heart is sound, no trace of cancer. His meals are mostly Ensure. There was a brief period when he said he wanted "suicide pills" rather than spend the rest of his life in a nursing home. This isn't really life, and I don't want to put my children having to deal with me as well. I too am physically healthy at 81 but have one gene for Alzheimer's and worry constantly about me--but the window between realizing you have dementia and being able to kill yourself is very small. I don't know how to open it and jump out at the right time!

I think it will help you if you get clear in your own head where your thoughts are on the matter. It can be hard to let go of loved ones, and for some their religious and personal beliefs seem to instruct holding on to life at all costs. Each person must square their response with their own beliefs and balance that against the needs of their loved one. For me the result of this thought process was this response to mom’s wishes for death: “I understand mom. And I promise not to try to make you stay. When you hear God calling, you should let go. We will all be OK here, and you will get to be with Grandma and Pop-Pop. Sis and I will take care of Dad till he comes to join you. I love you so much. Everything will be OK.” Wishing you wisdom, strength, and peace.

The Lancet Commission has a very interesting article on the value of death and how our society has gone to great lengths to devalue it. An excerpt from the article quotes the surgeon and writer Atul Gawande - “In the past few decades, medical science has rendered obsolete centuries of experience, tradition, and language about our mortality, and created a new difficulty for mankind: how to die.”

I was very surprised when my 90 year old FIL, who is in great health, said recently he would rather die than not be able to continue to do the things he always did. He recognized he was slowing down, which for him meant only walking 3 times around the perimeter of his property every day instead of 6! He isn't depressed at all, he's a happy person who enjoys life so his comment opened my eyes to how it must feel to lose the things that are important to someone's quality of life. He truly believes he has lived a good life and doesn't want to muck that up with a prolonged death. I sure hope he's around for many more healthy years but if not, I know he's OK with it and that makes it a little easier for me to accept.

Empathy, empathy, empathy. Reflect his feelings back to him in your own words so he hears that you get his hardship/pain. You might remind him of all his wonderful qualities that have made him special. If he has been courageous, recognize it and let him know as he’s being courageous now having to live with such uncertainties but still choosing the more moral path. Suicidal ideation is very common in the last phase of life. It sounds like he still has enough moral awareness of why suicide wouldn’t be ‘right’ so that is good. If you are worried about this, you can ask specifically if he has a plan and get a professional involved if he seems serious. Many elderly people express such thoughts without a genuine plan to self-harm. They’re often verbalizing this as a desired escape plan from further misery or anticipated pain. Ensure him there are ample meds available from hospices/physicians to minimize pain and discomfort. Try to distract him with photos or music that may be enjoyable to him and give him lots of affection if he responds well to that. Losing mental faculties and imagining pending death are pretty scary images. Maybe you can introduce comforting images or faith based (if he has a strong faith) images that are uplifting. Ultimately, what you have control over is what you do, not what he thinks. But you have s lot of power to help lift him up. All the best.

This is probably going to induce strong feelings for a lot of people however I believe you’ll find this article helpful. I did. It’s about Rational Suicide.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/31/health/suicide-elderly.html

I empathize with you but have no advice except to pray.

Grace + Peace,
Bob

You need to talk to Granddad's physician. I had to put my DH on Zoloft for the last year of his life. He didn't want to die, DH's problem was he didn't want to leave me and it was worrying him too much.

I just learned there is actually a pill that can be taken to end your life - the VA makes it available to veterans - I don't know more because I only recently heard about it.

Your Granddad is probably extremely lonely and this doesn't help. If you want to help him, you need to see that he is receiving proper nutrition. I still remember back in the 70's when poor nutrition was linked to what was then called senile-dementia. After that report, you never hear of senile-dementia, it is all about Altzheimer's now. But seniors still need proper nutrition.

My DH lived to be 96 yrs 8 mos and until his body started shutting down, his brain was fairly well intact. He took the "dementia test" annually and still got high grades showing no dementia. But I made sure of his necessary nutritional needs. Sites like AgingCare helped me a lot.

It is interesting how many elders express wanting to die. I think it is perfectly normal. Imagine yourself living in a place where you are just waiting out the days for life to end...there is no purpose in your life, no joy...just the existence of being alive with dementia and dependence. My dad often expresses the wish to die and when he does I just empathize and listen. I give his wish respect. If I was him, I’d want to go too. He’s 97 and lived a very good life up until a year ago. He is miserable now that he’s wheelchair bound, can’t walk, totally dependent and lonely in LTC. He misses all his friends. This is no way to end one's life. I agree that we should have the choice to control when we die. He wants "the good lord to take him" as he says and this is what I pray for. We are living too long past our expiration dates.

This is a very real and profound question. I believe it comes down to how well supported you are as a caregiver. I would not have said this during my seven years as primary caregiver of my Mother living in my home till her death - with Alzheimer's Dementia and bowel cancer.

Take a look at the care team and support around HIM and YOU. What are the finances like? Does the family pull together? Are there good family caregiver programs and support around you and him? Explore the care team picture with him. Let him know you have it covered - if that is possible. If you are isolated and the care picture does not feel well supported you really have to check your own heart and intentions. This becomes a really personal decision - if you feel fully committed to changing the outcome and offering empathetic care to your Granddad. It's a slippery slope when you open your heart in that way and without the supports around you that slope can become a rabbit hole and you will not know where you will end up - perhaps a beautiful and or difficult place?
Good luck to you, you are a brave soul.

Great thread and replies. I have the type of mother who would always say this whenever she was disappointed in me, for 15 years or more (shout-out to anyone else who has one) but with brain decline it’s gotten worse. 1) please make sure he has a DNR; my mother still won’t sign one, which is crazy, and 2) there’s a lot to learn in the book Being Mortal by Atul Gawande, which I read because of recs on this site and it was very good - people will mostly want to die for not feeling like they have a purpose. Consider whether you can help find a purpose for grandpa. There are other good solutions above, but include this one. I haven't been able to help my mother with that, but I aim to.