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My husband and I have been with my 90 year old parents since before Thanksgiving. It is now January 2nd. My husband had to go home to work in another state. My mom got a respiratory infection and was sent to the hospital due to fluid in her extremities and low oxygen. She’s now on oxygen. I stayed behind to care for her and help out my Dad. I thought that she would get better in a few weeks. It’s not the oxygen problem that she can’t deal with when I leave, it’s that she can’t reach back to wipe her rear because she’s too heavy in her stomach. Granted she’s sitting on a high toilet seat with grab bars, but even before we got that, she didn’t want to wipe herself. Then she wants me to bring her a bed pan into the kitchen while my Dad was cooking in the kitchen, also outside on the common area balcony in front of her door, in the living room - to urinate instead of walking to the bathroom. My Dad said she gets out of bed on her own, wipes herself upfront and gets back into bed by herself. When my wonderful husband told her Mom you need to start trying to become independent again like you were, she went crazy on him and told me go home to your husband. He is the most compassionate person in the world. My mom said to him I want to thank you for you giving up your wife - what does this mean? For how long does she think I’m going to stay around just to wipe her? She said I would never have your father to that. I don’t like to use my father’s car so I’m trapped. I also brought my puppy who needs exercise. She told me don’t be long walking him. Also, she’s supposed to be losing weight and she’s eating cookies, etc. So why do I have to wipe her if she can’t reach back because she’s heavy and she’s not helping herself? My husband and I are in our 60’s and about to retire and she won’t even walk to help herself! It’s so unfair! I bought her a tool to help her reach back and she doesn’t want to try it. If she can’t wipe herself now, I can’t just live with her to just stay around to wipe her. So sorry everyone! PS I had breast cancer and need to go to my doctors too.

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Need, Max posted just the other day about her parents inviting complete strangers, met by dialing a wrong number, over for dinner.

It is a bit confusing because she is posting under maximus and Romeo. Just a heads up.
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golden23 Jun 2023
That is confusing. I didn't see that post. Thx for the heads up real.

Max - been thinking of you and hoping you are looking after yourself.
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Omigo. It’s a bidet seat. It’s wonderful. Press one button and it washes her and then air dries her. She can sit for 2 dry cycles if needed since it would normally take a few squares to finish the dry job. Get your life back. Where’s her modesty?!
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NeedHelpWithMom Jun 2023
Old post. I do wonder how Max is doing though. She was very sweet and was a cancer survivor.
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Max, when you tell Mom that you have all these appointments and she is sympathetic and then says "so when will you be coming" chuckle at her and say "Mom I just explained my schedule to you and I really have no idea." You may want to tell her you may need to cut back on your visits because of your health problems. It may become 2x a year maybe 1. And, you do not have to spend more than a week with them. Thats about it for me, a week away from home is enough. You need to cut back on your stress.
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Max,

I hope you will hear positive news from your doctors. You’ve been through so much. Dealing with your parents adds so much additional stress. Please make your health a priority. Your parents will figure it out.

Hugs!
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Hi Joanne and my other friends - Maybe she's forgetting things - not sure about this yet. How can one tell their mother that - I hit my head the other day and need to see my eye doctor because I think I have a slight concussion and then tell her I need to see my primary care dr, my oncologist, my pulmonologist for my lung nodules and then get an infusion for my bones that makes you feel like crap and she says please go and don't make me worry and then the next minute ask me when I'll be visiting her. Is that dementia?
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golden23 Mar 2023
Proud of you, Max for making that connection between your mother and your brother - yes, similar tactics.

Be in control of where you want to go when and don't let anyone guilt you out of it.

Your mum may be showing signs of dementia or it may just be the self centeredness or both. Only a properly qualified dr can assess her regarding the dementia, or the narcissism for that matter.

Glad you are putting your health first. I am sorry you have all those health problems. She does harp on doesn't she?
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Yes! She chose to move. And you have other things to worry about.

Been thinking about you this week. Glad things are getting better.
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Ok - I'm trying so hard to stay strong. I was distraught tonight. What's funny is she's doing the same thing that my brother did to me - make me feel guilty and I'm just trying to live my life like they lived their lives the way they wanted to. She's just going to have to wait - I agree and I can't go down there every month and I don't want to. They moved far away from us - it's their problem. I actually told her this gently the other day. We're so tired of hearing her ask us - it's not cute anymore. Thanks again everyone ❤️
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My blunt response is don't visit for a long while.
Post her a long handed sponge on a stick.
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sp19690 Mar 2023
They did the sponge on a stick thing during roman times only they all used the same sponge.
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Honestly, Max You are the one who is suffering here. Your mum moans a lot, but I don't see that she is suffering. She loves to be miserable and take it out on you
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(((((Max))))). Your mum is doing it again - making nasty comments and jerking you around. I am sorry she is like this.

However, this is not new behaviour from her. If she doesn't get what she wants she is nasty and upsets you. That's her game. She is very controlling and doesn't want you to have a life separate from her. She wants to be the center of your universe - have you focused on her.

In my experience, the only way to deal with this is to have less contact. How about let a day or so go by without any phone calls. If she calls again, let it go to voice mail. Will she be angry.? Yes, but she is anyway. That's ok. That's her choice as to how to respond to you. It doesn't reflect on you or make you a bad daughter. You are not responsible for her feelings.

Be honest with yourself. Do you really want to talk daily with someone who treats you like this and pressures you all the time to come and visit? Do you really want to visit her soon again? Would you put up with that from a friend? I wouldn't. I know this is hard and hurtful. Protect yourself!

Glad you and hubby had a nice day training your puppy. ((((((((hugs))))))
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maximus1 Mar 2023
Hi Golden, I know she is suffering because she misses me and not only me my husband too. She's lonely. She left her mom when she had to - you know the story - did she ever wonder if her mom missed her? She probably would care, but she still would go on with her life. What's wrong with her?
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This is attempt at control and sign of dementia. Dont fall for it. You take charge of your time etc. Go home! Agencies cost a lot but until they evaluate this person, its best for sanity. Be firm ! You cant budge at all!
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Hi Everyone - I'm really upset right now - my husband and I had a really nice day today training our puppy and we just got off the phone with my parents and my mom said when are you coming down for the 15th time this week. I told her maybe for Mother's day. She said well enjoy your dinner really snidely and hung up. Then she called me back and said I know how you can see me is when I die you can look at my pictures on my wall of me. What???? So I said I hope you're joking and she said don't worry about it.
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Catskie62 Mar 2023
Hey! Glad to hear from you again. ♡♡♡
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Thanks guys - I'll keep you posted ❤️
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golden23 Feb 2023
Make sure you do that!!! Even just check in here and let us know how you are doing, what new things you are figuring out, what old things you are tired of.
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Hey, Max

Wishing you well with your upcoming doctor appointments and of course also with your puppy, Romeo!
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I was thinking about u today and wondering how things were going. Stay strong. Right now your health is the most important thing. And your hubby and your puppy. Mom has Dad to care for her. Keep us up on things. People learn from each other. How you handle Mom will help others.
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I'm glad you told her she had her fun times and she needed to be happy with your dad. There is a point where you just have to tell them to knock it off. You have had enough.
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Hi Max - How are you doing with doctors and a therapist appointments for you, researching resources for your parents, cutting back on phone calls with your mum? Been thinking of you and saw you post on someone's thread. Hope you are making some more progress.
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maximus1 Feb 2023
Hi Golden - I have appointments coming up this month so I've been trying to deal with my thoughts on my own. Mom is already asking when I'll be going down. I told her that I just got home 3 weeks ago. I have puppy training and doctors. Of course, she was moaning and saying Ok, fine don't worry about it. I am so tired of her guilting me out with that tone of voice. I told her you always had many trips to Europe by yourselves when Dad was flying. You always had a wonderful time together - you can be with one another alone without us for a while. Come on I said be happy with one another! It's so depressing when she does this to me. How are you? Thanks so much for thinking about me. Max
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Manipulative mothers are masters at gaslighting techniques.

When gaslighting starts early in life, it seems normal to the children. Many habits start in childhood.

There isn’t anything wrong with daily phone calls per se if both parties are enjoying the calls. When calls are nothing but constant complaints, it’s a problem. Especially if every suggestion is turned down.

Mothers shouldn’t expect their adult daughters to feel obligated to call home on a daily basis. Once a week is adequate. I don’t expect my daughters to call me daily. They lead busy lives.

Max isn’t required to call her mom as often as she does. It’s a long standing habit that needs to be broken.

We need to remove anything that becomes overly stressful in our lives. Internalized stress wears us down. Nothing is worth ruining our physical or emotional wellbeing.

I agree with JoAnn about not worrying so much. Cross those bridges when they happen. Chronically worrying is an awful way to live.

We wish you well, Max. Take one step at a time.
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Max, I hope you are well, getting on with scheduling your doc appointments.

I want to point out to you that TWO longtime posters on this board, both your age, are either about to die or in terrible danger of dying from metastatic cancer and kidney disease.

We are none of us promised long life, even if our parents live/d to a ripe old age.

You can toss the dice and ignore the warning that your body has given you and continue to live to please your parents. Or you can take back a modicum of control and force your parents to seek support for their many health and social needs elsewhere.

This isn't going to be easy. By providing them with unquestioned financial support for many years, you have created an expectation that this will continue and that they bear no financial responsibility for their future. They are incredibly selfish to act this way, but you offered or they demanded, I don't know which.

Unless you are independently wealthy, you are going to need to make a financial plan with your husband and an attorney for sorting this all out.

Please remember that your dad's VA benefits need to be looked into. This may be a better option than Medicaid.

AND there needs to be a closer examination of mom and dad's current finances, i.e., does he get a pension in addition to SS? Does mom get SS?

I would also advise you to be prepared to call the authorities if your brother comes knocking on your or your parents' door.

First you need to decide if you want this dynamic to change.

Then you need to be willing to work on changing YOU and your reactions.

It's hard work. Good luck.
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NeedHelpWithMom Feb 2023
I was told that they will speed up the process for getting benefits if the parent is at advanced age. Her dad is in his 90’s.

So, she should definitely start this process.

Her father should qualify and should he die before her mom. Her mom will receive the benefits.
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I think the main thing here is that Max now realizes that she has given her parents too much of her life. Sad but their needs are going to get greater as they age. Max has had a big health scare and probably now sees things need to change. So, its not going to happen overnight. She may have to start with little things. Like phoning 1x a day. I would make it the afternoon call. Calling in the morning would ruin my day. Don't even start planning her next visit. Just tell Mom she has not decided yet. And again, I don't think her parents understand how serious Max's cancer is. Maybe she needs to be blunt and tell them "You know I could have died and then where would u have been. Mom/Dad you need to make changes." They also may need to be reminded they are in the situation they are in because they chose to give the money for their future to a son. Then expect a daughter to pick up the pieces.

Look at it this way Max you now really have the power and have for a while. Your parents need you more than you need them. You are now the adult and they are the children. Your parents need to understand that their lives are never going to be like they were. You have no control over their aging or health. You too have had a life changing experience that means you need to live your life differently. Things will never be the same. What you need to learn is how to be firm with your parents and honest. I have a feeling you never explained what you were going thru during your chemo. Actually, how did Mom take it when u told her u had cancer? They should know what chemo does to people. That the meds ur taking now may have side effects. I bet its always been about them and your needs and feelings are not so important.

I don't think things are going to happen overnight, little steps. Stop worrying about what may happen and deal with it when it happens. You need someone to give u those tools. That therapist is more important at this point than trying to find placement for Mom and Dad who will reject anything you try. That you need help with too and a therapist can help.
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Nothing will change until the OP is ready and willing to change. She says she wants to, but I doubt it. Every time she says she is ready to make a change some crisis comes up and she needs us to guide her through it. With 90 year olds there will always be a crisis. I have been there. My father ran me ragged for a few years with the crisis of the day. Then I saw that some of these were things of his own doing or just attempts to get more attention. That is when I put my foot down. Did I look cold hearted? I am sure I did but I got some of my life back.
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AlvaDeer Feb 2023
I couldn't agree more. I think all we mini-therapists, well meaning though we are (I include myself), won't help much here. In situations like this the people involved get very little out of their relationships. The one thing they DO get is being able to talk about them to others (until all friends are lost, and have moved quietly away), and to get sympathy, advice, and attention of a sort that can't help them but does provide some very temporary relief from their pain. Max may not be truly helped until she finds a truly GREAT psychotherapist, one that doesn't simply sit listening, but one that shakes up the patient out of habitual ways of acting and thinking. I had one of these tough ones years ago when I was "stuck" at the tragic end of a marriage. It's a tough process.
WE all fall into the listening category, which is helpful in the short term, but might be damaging in the long. IMHO. Ikdry, I think you nailed it.
This is all well and good, but I doubt it will do much.
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I will definitely write everything down. Thanks and rest now.
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golden23 Feb 2023
URW - bedtime here! 💤🛌😴
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I know I used the word “Eloquent” which is incorrect vocabulary regarding what was written, but this sounded like poetry to me!
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golden23 Feb 2023
Definition of eloquent "fluent or persuasive in speaking or writing."

I think you used it correctly. Thank you! 😊

I am not very good at receiving compliments.

It helps your healing to be able to write a "healing narrative". This is the main events of your life written out with feelings attached to them. You have been writing out parts of it. I just put some of it together.
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OK Max. Great!

Tweak what I have written if I have left anything important out.

Then, addressing some of these points, list the changes you want to make.

Think about it, discuss with your husband and write them down.

I have made assumptions. It is good for you to clearly state how you want your life to be different from what it is now.

Be sure you know that you have not made your mother into what she is,

Her neediness is NOT your fault.

Your needs ARE your responsibility.

BTW Glad to hear you are making appointments with your doctors and you and hubs are researching care for your parents. Good for you both!
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Oh Golden you are GOLDEN! You literally covered my entire life in a few paragraphs - well done, so simplified and so eloquent! Thank you!
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Max - I've been trying to put this all together with the additional information you have given us. I am not criticizing Just wanting to get a picture of your relationship with your parents/family.

* you have always been very close to your parents, especially your mother, as demonstrated by the fact that you have called her twice a day all your life

* you have a very bright and disturbed brother who has wrought unchecked emotional and financial destruction on your family

* you have spent holidays as well as long periods of time with them regularly all your adult life

* for the most part you have enjoyed this, though 1) it encroached on your life with your hub which you have come to resent and 2) it seems to be becoming a problem more and more as they have aged as they can't do as much and need more and more help

* you have felt trapped to some degree with these arrangements

* you didn't have friends your age, as a child and I suspect have few if any now. (When would you have time for friendships with spending so much time with your parents and talking to your mum?)

* although you love your mum you find it stressful to be with her at times as 1) she is too dependent on you and 2) being with her is being on an emotional roller coaster ride

* you are wanting to spend less time with them and be free to make plans for yourself and your hub.

* you have cancer and have had the initial treatments and are on an aromatase inhibitor for the next 5-10 years

* you are feeling the need to express yourself more and direct your own life rather than having your parents wants and needs direct it.

Am I close?
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Look, I don't mean to be rude. But without actually wanting to change the family dynamic, it will never change.

Even a good therapist to roleplay & look at new communication styles won't get anywhere if no-one wants to actually change.

Many people are happy with their super-close family relationships. If you are Max, well, own it!

All the advice in the world on how to unmesh is most probably useless for you.

So I'm changing my tune.
To options that may be more realistic for your situation.

A. Action. Find an AL. Either your town or theirs.
Find it. Arrange the funding. Move them in. Sell/rent our the condo.
*Make the changes*

B. Be their Maid. Wait for the next crises, birthday or whatever reason sends you back to the folks. Just stay. Make peace with it. They are late 80s/90 - may only live 6 months or 5 years more - so share that time together. You may need to leave your DH behind, this does happen. But it is an option that people do take.
*See it through to the end*

C. Check out. Disengage from any responsibility. Let them age in place as they wish. Wait until a crises forces them into hospital / a NH.
You stay home too, doing what you do, making your daily calls to them. It doesn't really matter where they land, right? You can still call morning & night.
*Let the world decide for you*

If you WANT to take action, but lack the skills/knowledge, seek out people to help you. There are agencies that specialise in finding ALs & elder law/financial services too. Find a Captain for this ship.

If you want to keep the peace & make no waves, do that.

But know choppy waters lie ahead. You have been warned.

I wish you all the very best with your choices, towards action or go with the flow.
Take care, Beatty.
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They had almost $1 million and they spent it on my abusive brother. I will tell you more when I can. Have to cook dinner. Hugs
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NeedHelpWithMom Feb 2023
How sad.

Enjoy your dinner!
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Eleanor Roosevelt said "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

I have always taken this to mean a couple of things.

1. YOU have to give them the power to make you feel less than, or bad about yourself.

2. They have to have access to you, in order to make you feel bad in the first place.

This quote is not about the person doing the harm. It is about the person BEING harmed. It is about the person who is allowing themselves to be harmed.

You have been calling them every morning and late afternoon all of your life. You have given her access.
So what happens if you only call in the morning - or in the afternoon? Realistically? What happens? Are you worried that something will happen to them? Are you worried that she will be mad at you? What is at the heart of why you are troubled about missing one or the other call? Do you think if you don't call her that she will blow up your phone? I ask my SIL this all the time. What happens if you don't jump when FIL tells you to? He can't hurt you. He can yell - yes, but you can walk away. But there is power in words. And there is power in guilt.

But let me put it to you this way - the definition of insanity is to do what you have always done and to expect different results. I'm not trying to insult you, you know this. NOTHING is going to change unless you change something. You aren't going to get different results unless you do something to interrupt the status quo.

If she has regular access to you - she is going to continue the way she always has. There is zero reason for her to change. And your father is her enabler - because let's face it - it's easier for him - no shame in that. But let's talk about you. Is it just easier for you? I think up to this point- it has been. Because they have been mostly self-sufficient. You could go on vacations together and do fun things. But now that they are getting older and things are getting harder and they need more it's getting more difficult to manage. And that's only going to get more difficult.

The days of fun vacations are gone. I'm not trying to be mean - but they have invested money in your brother - and have depended on you for support. YOU ARE THEIR PLAN. How many months have you spent in the last year taking care of them. Nevermind paying their mortgage. You have said a couple of times you can't move them closer because it's cheaper for you to pay their mortgage where they live. I want you to rewind that and play it back. You can't move them closer because it would cost YOU more to pay THEIR mortgage.

And yet they didn't blink an eye as they gave your brother money hand over fist.

Here is the problem I see. Do they actually have any money of their own anymore? Or are they dependent on your to pay for everything - not just their mortgage? All this time we've been telling you to send them to an assisted living facility - or potentially even a nursing home. But now I'm concerned. They've given all of this money to your brother. How long ago was the last time? If they go to a nursing home, how long before they would run out of money to pay for it? Or would you have to pay for that too? Because if they had to depend on something like Medicaid to pay for it- and they've given your brother all of that money in say the last five years....dear God....the lookback period - I have no words.
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NeedHelpWithMom Feb 2023
Eleanor was certainly a woman ahead of her time!
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I know what you are going to say - then don't talk to them so much. Well that's hard to do because I have been calling them every morning and late afternoon all of my life.
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NeedHelpWithMom Feb 2023
Max,

Try to distract yourself with something else for awhile.

What are your interests? Meet up with your friends and enjoy time with others.

Plan activities with your husband. He’s been there for you throughout all of this. Now that you are reunited again, do some fun things together! Has he mentioned anything that he would like to do?

Surprise your husband with planning something special for the two of you to share. You’ll both benefit from not being preoccupied with thoughts of your parents.

Taking the first step is often the hardest. After that, you will grow accustomed to living life for yourselves instead of your parents.

Does your husband have this kind of relationship with his family? Or just with your family?
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