My husband and I have been with my 90 year old parents since before Thanksgiving. It is now January 2nd. My husband had to go home to work in another state. My mom got a respiratory infection and was sent to the hospital due to fluid in her extremities and low oxygen. She’s now on oxygen. I stayed behind to care for her and help out my Dad. I thought that she would get better in a few weeks. It’s not the oxygen problem that she can’t deal with when I leave, it’s that she can’t reach back to wipe her rear because she’s too heavy in her stomach. Granted she’s sitting on a high toilet seat with grab bars, but even before we got that, she didn’t want to wipe herself. Then she wants me to bring her a bed pan into the kitchen while my Dad was cooking in the kitchen, also outside on the common area balcony in front of her door, in the living room - to urinate instead of walking to the bathroom. My Dad said she gets out of bed on her own, wipes herself upfront and gets back into bed by herself. When my wonderful husband told her Mom you need to start trying to become independent again like you were, she went crazy on him and told me go home to your husband. He is the most compassionate person in the world. My mom said to him I want to thank you for you giving up your wife - what does this mean? For how long does she think I’m going to stay around just to wipe her? She said I would never have your father to that. I don’t like to use my father’s car so I’m trapped. I also brought my puppy who needs exercise. She told me don’t be long walking him. Also, she’s supposed to be losing weight and she’s eating cookies, etc. So why do I have to wipe her if she can’t reach back because she’s heavy and she’s not helping herself? My husband and I are in our 60’s and about to retire and she won’t even walk to help herself! It’s so unfair! I bought her a tool to help her reach back and she doesn’t want to try it. If she can’t wipe herself now, I can’t just live with her to just stay around to wipe her. So sorry everyone! PS I had breast cancer and need to go to my doctors too.
Her asking is her worry, her separation anxiety.
Meet Emotion with Emotion.
A *factual date* is not required. Be vague + emotive eg Soon. I'll be looking forward to it. As soon as it's possible.
Even the best promise in the world can get derailed anyway Eg Covid
Move the focus away from what Mom says, thinks or even remembers (although concerning). This is all outside your control.
Focus in what is INside your control.
1. Report your concerns (in writing) to Mom's Doctor.
2. Packing your bag.
3. Considering asking DH to book a local hotel for his first night back & go join him per JoAnn's excellent suggestion.
If your skillset is not research, that's ok. We all have our different talents. Yours may be a daily call for emotional support (from your home).
What happens if mom strokes out (or pretends to) the day before you leave?
You have the gift of time right now. Use it to find good facilities.
I can can tell you from person experience that the hospital your mom (or dad) is admitted to wants to know where you want your parent sent for rehab. You need to know where the places are that are acceptable.
Don't sit around sparring with mom. It's bad for your health. And hers.
I looked back on a old post from 2015 and then u were 50. So now your going on 58, by AARP terms your a senior. You have been thru breast cancer and from what I understand, the chemo effects you for quite a long time. 58 is not old but those treatments took a lot out of you. I have heard energy levels and strength don't always come back. You are probably going to need to continue to pay for your parents mortgage, hard to stop now. But when one of them passes, the other will need to go into somekind of care.
I know they are in their 90s, bad time to start sticking up for yourself. But you need to. You may need to allow the State to take over their care eventually. You are only one person with health problems of her own that may have been brought on by the stress ur under.you need to get rid of that stress. You need to find the tools to deal with Mom. YOU need to have boundries. Mom will try to cross them but you need to stand firm. Sorry Mom, this is how it needs to be. Really, it gets me that your Mom is so formidable with you, but afraid of your brother.
* Lead: Organise more help for your folks.
* Follow: go along with Mom & Dad's plan (or lack of..). They want XYZ, so you provide it.
* Get: go home
It really comes down to what you want more & what you are more afraid of.
To lead you will benefit from therapy to support you while you make changes.
Follow will see you entrenched as maid & wiper.
Get going home may bring feelings of guilt or separation anxiety. Also resentment at putting your life constantly on hold - arranging dogcare, flying in every few weeks/months for every new crises. Getting stuck each time.
Inaction will result in the default existing pattern of Follow - but change of mind is possible at any time.
When I feel like that, I take a nap, listen to music, soak in a hot bath, take a relaxing walk by the creek alone. (Must admit to watching some junk on TV too).
Depending on what stage of life this was, sometimes I just had to push through. Nap may have been a quick 5 mins in the car (parked!) before the school run.
These days I take more time to stop & revive. I CHOOSE to do so.
Self-care.
Valuing ourselves.
Taking responsibility for our own needs.
Max, what did you do for yourself for restoration after your draining day?
It's just a small snapshot of one day, but it may show you a lot. That old saying: Lead, Follow, Get (out of the way).
Lead your own day, follow everyone's plan or get away for a walk, nap, bath.
You are in a co-dependent, enmeshed relationship with your family. Look up those terms.
In some cultures, that is the norm. In the U.S., it is not.
Because you are, and have been, supporting your parents for many years, you may not be able to disentangle from this web easily.
Conside posting the financial situation on www.bogleheads.org, or seek the advice of an elder law attorney who as a social worker on staff. They exist, especially in Florida.
I would plan for my exit if you haven't already and leave. You have a husband that you have pledged your life and your future to.
Will she allow you to talk to her primary care doctor or a social worker? Go and get ideas from them on how others have dealt with similar situations. You don't mention what part your Dad plays into all of this.
If he is okay for you to leave immediately, then leave.
You have a kind heart and your Mom is making sure she takes full advantage of it. Don't....you need a lot of that heart for yourself and your husband and others in your family.
P.S. It really sounds like she is not happy with herself, therefore, she thinks she can be happy by being demanding to be pampered. The twist where she showers you with compliments after demand and demand and demand. That's classic emotional abuse.
She once again said I bet you can’t wait to leave us and I said of course I can’t. Did you forget I have a husband for 36 years and a home? She actually laughed. Really, it’s funny?
At what cost to yourself, Max? You said you are exhausted emotionally, mentally and physically, I don't wonder at that.
PS: I do voice my opinion and can be very verbal, and so can my husband, but we agreed to back off sometimes. My mother says “What a mouth you have, but she says I love you so much. I know she loves me and I do love her too, but I think I’m petrified about what my future will look like!
You and your parents are not autonomous individuals, so be prepared to wipe butt and be at their beck and call until you bury them. Hopefully, you will survive their deaths and not become a statistic.
It is okay to vent and wish for better things here. Good luck.
Have you ever journaled? It only takes a few minutes of your time and it really helps to track your emotions, setbacks and progress.
My therapist suggested that I journal for a time and I found it to be helpful.
We can easily fall into patterns and not even be aware of them. A journal will show you patterns that you need to address.
I am not judging but I see long standing patterns in your life.
I am curious. Do you see any similarities between your behavior and automatic algorithms that pop up daily on our computers?
Make a plan and don’t stray away from it no matter what happens. You must take action to break these unhealthy cycles.
1 min ago
Edit
Quick response CTTN we want to retire in Europe and stay forever and still keep our condo. We were supposed to take my parents and put them in an apartment in their favorite town in Spain, but with visas, etc. it’s going to difficult.
Setting a table the week before a party (unless you are British royalty) is the definition of OCD.
Your parents giving into brother's threats and blackmail is a sign of mental illness on the part of all the participants. I take it that maybe your family is in some way "connected"?
It's still a psychiatric issue.
Leave, and get help.
That’s ok, but when she started to answer for me at 17 years old when my Aunt offered me a glass of water - my mom answered for me and said no she doesn’t want anything. Wow! Or when I’m with her company till this day, if I say something and might have interrupted her a little, she’ll say really nastily, excuse me, I was talking (or something like that).
If you do speak up, what is her response? There is no justification for this behavior.
Oh, yes. We learned to be organized, which is a good thing but it shouldn’t be used to punish others.
If you were expected to always be the ‘good’ child, be ‘naughty’ now and tell your mom, ‘No!’ now. You deserve a life with normalcy. You also deserve an environment that will allow you to heal physically and emotionally.
I spent too many years of my life saying, ‘Yes, Mom.’ in order to please her. If I knew then what I know now, trust me, I would have been disobedient in spite of her not being satisfied.
We didn’t have the language as children to express our feelings. We are adults now and you know what needs to be said.
Forget about her being understanding. No matter how she takes the news, you can still walk away in good conscience.
I realize that you have been programmed. I was too, but it’s never too late to change your mindset.
I know what it’s like to feel compelled to do everything just right because we had whacko brothers. My brother had different issues than yours but the principle is the same.
Your mother will adapt when you tell her, ‘No, I can’t do this anymore. It’s over. You must find the help that you need elsewhere.”
What are your retirement plans?
What are your mother's retirement plans for you? Are they moving in with you, or are you expected to buy a house near them and for you all to live together?
If nothing's changed since you started posting here in 2015, what do you think will be different this year?
I don't know if this has been asked and answered elsewhere, but have you ever gone to therapy? You have a LOT to unpack from your past. And while that is happening, a therapist needs to help you learn to disengage from your parents.
Yes, your brother was a monster. But your parents raised and enabled that monster. Like others, I am surprised that NO ONE in your extended family ever called the police on him.
When you were growing up did your mom emphasize that you should always be a ‘good’ little girl and obey all of the time? I know that my mom certainly did.
When I was younger, all I ever wanted to do was please my mom so I could make her happy. It killed me if I saw her disappointed when I couldn’t live up to her expectations.
My mother was a supreme perfectionist! Perfectionists are difficult to get along with. I felt tremendous pressure and it emotionally stunted the way that I processed anything that my mother saw as a failure. It created a lot of anxiety for me as a child.
Failure is a part of life and everyone fails as they are learning. It’s important to learn how to move forward and this is difficult if we receive constant criticism.
We need encouragement from our moms to know that eventually we are going to succeed in life. I had to learn this on my own and from others.
I was afraid to bring home a B on my report card because my mother made all A’s. She wanted to see all A’s on every test that I took.
When my brother started acting up, there was even more pressure on me to never fail. I didn’t mind working hard to get the best grades but I absolutely hated the extreme pressure from my mother.
I understand that parents want us to do our best, but kids are not going to be perfect! Let’s face it, kids are curious and do weird sh*t sometimes!
I personally prefer the attitude that my mother in law had when she was raising her children. She would say, “They wouldn’t be kids if they didn’t try things.”
My mother in law disciplined her kids but her sons weren’t afraid of her. They had the freedom to think for themselves. She didn’t write a script for them. Her sons did very well for themselves.
My mother in law was an incredible pianist but none of her sons play music. She allowed them to find their own interests.
You’re no longer the young daughter that your mother raised you to be. You are a grown woman who is capable of making your own decisions in life.
I have two daughters and I took a different approach than my mom did because I value them being themselves. I learned so much from my mother in law.
If you knew another woman who was in the same situation as you, what advice would you give to her?
You have loads of information stored inside of you from your experiences. I bet that you would say, ‘Don’t make the same mistakes that I have.’ Am I right? You can learn from those mistakes. You can succeed.
Step outside of yourself and see the independent woman that you are quite capable of being.
You're spot on lower in the thread about 'Keep The Peace' theory in families and how it never works. Really it's just a way to justify abuse and excuse it.
My mother was all about the just "keeping the peace" and avoiding confrontation with anyone other than her abuse targets (first our father, then my sister and I). She always let people take advantage of our home and to treat her kids with disrespect and abuse. I learned from that nonsense behavior. I do not tolerate abuse because it will 'keep the peace'. No way. I'd rather have a scortched-earth policy than do that.
I'm not the nicest person in the world. Or the gentlest, or the most empathic. But no one ever has to guess what mean or want and I am rarely misunderstood.
I believe change is possible even in the direst of situations. I have seen it happen more that once, even after years of being stuck in a dysfunctional pattern.
But - the big qualifier - the person has to want to change. The fear and pain of staying the same has to be greater than the fear and pain of change. The payoff of change has to be greater than the payoff of staying the same.
Max, you have had an abundance of advice over some period of years and it appears that you really don't want change. That's OK. It's your choice, your life. The advent of cancer might have been a big enough reason for some to change, but it doesn't seem to have been for you.
I am going to recommend to you that you read "When The Body Says No" by Gabor Mate'. Among other things, he writes about women and breast cancer and their relationships with their mothers - basically their inability to establish that independent life that Need wrote about and that we all are encouraging you towards. I also believe a high stress life can contribute to the development of cancer though neither of these are by any means the only factors. I see it in my daughter who has been through a lot of stress in her family and still has issues she needs to face, so this is close to my heart. I am doing what I can to support her towards dealing better with stress and developing that full independence, as I want her to have a long and healthy life.
I wish the same for you, Max - a long and healthy life which is developed by good, sound choices. We can give advice and support, but in the long and the short run, it's all up to you.
You and your husband need to see a therapist to find out why you enable your family. All I can say that he loves u bunches. Mom and Dad lost what they had because of your brother. They did not have to help him. Dad should not have bailed him out. I would have left him there. If this was my parents, they would have to live in a HUD apt. Something they could afford on what they bring in. Why, because I have always made my own way. Yes, we got what we needed and Christmas was the best they could afford. I got 1 pair of shoes to start school with, when worn out I got another. I babysat to buy my extra shoes and purses. I worked one summer and paid for my class trip. I worked from 18 to 62. Everything I had after 18 I and my husband worked for, our parents gave us nothing.
I am not saying we would not have helped our parents in some way but not supported them in the lifestyle they had before brother broke them. They would need to show me they downsized to a place they could afford and were staying within budget. My responsibility would be to make sure there was food in the house, heat, water and electric. Does this seem cruel, its not because your parents should have cut your brother off long ago. Its called tough love and its not a new concept. Your parents were not entitled to support him after he was 18. There must have been signs there was something wrong with your brother at a young age. Your parents made this monster. You should not have to take your hard earned money, that you should be setting aside for your future, to support your parents who probably don't appreciate it because they feel you owe them.
But as said they are in their 90s and not going to change things now. But you can set boundaries for yourself. You go home on the 28th. DO NOT change these plans. Its time for Mom and Dad to make decisions. If they are going to stay in the home, then Mom is going to need help. If they cannot afford it, then there is Medicaid. Or Office of Aging, APS. There are resources out there don't u be the resource.
You have had cancer. Stress does contribute to it. So you become ur #1 concern and DH is next.
Mantra...I am here to show people the way, not be the way.
I get family looks after family. Wishes to protect family. Regarding "No one wanted to call the police" - fear, mixed in with that family obligation, guilt of turning him in. Yet brother did eventually run into trouble with the law, did get psychological input & hopefully help. (Shame it wasn't much sooner).
Reflecting back now, do you think your parent's had trouble saying no to him? Taught you by example not to say no to him? That it's not ok to say no to family?
My family let a LO go along a path without any 'no' for such a long time too. No-one knew quite what to do. Eventually someone did pause, stop, say enough, this is not ok, we need help here. Only then did things change.
That is in the past now.
But looking to the future.. there is opportunity to tread differently. To really look at that family 'rule' of not saying no to family. Assess if it actually is sensible, fair, useful.
Kind of like having a hoarder neighbours. Their hoard on their property is their problem. But if it encroaches onto your property, or presents fire danger to your property - it also becomes your problem so you get a say & to act to protect yourself.
Maxi, your brother's issues were like a hoard encroaching over your property. Now your parents are set to do the same to you.
None of the huge amount of advice you've been given over the years has been taken Maximus, and here you are, back asking for more advice you most likely will not take.
Here is a post from 2019:
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/how-do-i-retract-what-i-said-to-my-89-year-old-mother-451582.htm
And Countrymouse's response:
Right. This is Maximus's reply on another thread from 2015:
"By accident I heard my Mom and Dad on a tape message that they didn't realize was still on that they were going to sell their home and move in with us and weren't going to tell us they sold their home. I confronted them about this and my Mom became very hurt and said I thought you said we should sell our home. A few years ago I did say that but now they have a dog and we have a dog that is scared of their dog. They do have a bedroom in our condo, but we are only permitted to have 2 dogs. My Mom doesn't think there will be an issue even though we can be sued. We always travel to Europe together, have always done things with them and love eachother so much, so they thought that living together would be so much fun. We have done that in the past years ago and also recently they spend 4 months out of the year with us. It was a shock to hear that they would move in permanately. We love being with them and they are in their late 80's and my Dad has cancer. Besides wanting to be with us they cannot enjoy life because they are financially bad-off. They supported my brother all his life and have no money. We are paying their mortgage. They said they would pay us back when they sell their home and want to enjoy life with us. I told them I was shocked and said how could you live permanately in that bedroom because they stay in it all day when they visit and don't use the living room and then I said I feel sorry for my dog and he has fears of their dog. Well, my Mom couldn't believe what I said and said to me I thought you always wanted to be with us and would wanted us to sell and live with both of you. I said yes, a few years ago that was true, but now they have a dog too. Now my Mom and Dad are hurt and said we will all go on but she will never feel the same about me. My Dad will be coming here for a serious operation and he said he will be leaving as soon as he can. I feel awful, but we always have spent time with them because we have no kids. No because they think they don't have much time, they need to spend every minute with us. I would like that too, but why can't they just visit for a length of time. They still are strong at heart and have all of their faculties. I feel so guilty and I will be taking their dog when they pass, but hopefully they will live a long life with her. Right now she is a puppy and my nine year dog can't handle her and is scared all the time. I feel for him and I feel for them too. What should I do?"
Maximus, I hope you're able to use the site and see the replies to your question?
So, what you didn't mention is that this situation has been going on for YEARS. I hope that at least the dogs are getting on with each other by now? :) And that your father's remission continues, or that he's been given the all-clear.
If we were to go back to square one: what kind of living arrangement do you think would work really well for you and your husband, and for your parents?
SMH