I am about to lose my mind dealing with all the impossible bureaucratic demands. I am wondering what the downside is to just walking away from MIL’s finances and letting the state deal with it. We could still visit and phone her, right?
FIL lived in another state, died suddenly three months ago. Kept no records, refused to discuss finances. Never saved any money, never had a plan for the future. MIL was totally dependent on him. He kept her at home but neglected her.
MIL has dementia, is continent and mobile, but needs 24-hour care and assistance with most ADLs. Thankfully, after moving her here and going nuts trying to care for her at home, we were able to get her on Medicaid and into a nursing home. So grateful!! She is getting good care. But the bureaucracy is driving me insane. I worked in business for many years, thought I knew how to get things done — but nothing about this situation is simple or easy.
One example: right after she was approved for Medicaid, we got a request from DSHS asking for proof of her pension. They gave us 10 days to respond, and it took 6 days just to get the letter. The pension administrators took three weeks to respond to our request, and then they wanted us to fill out another form (after we sent them FIL’s death certificate and MIL’s POA). We were forced to set up an Internet pension signon in MIL’s name. It was the wrong way to do things, but it was the only way to satisfy DSHS in time to keep her Medicaid.
Another example: DSHS suddenly decided that her Social Security had doubled and she should pay more towards her nursing home. I called them and asked how that was possible, and they said they didn’t know but needed a letter from SS to fix it. Luckily, SS had just sent us a benefits letter showing that her SS stayed the same, but I am worried that this will happen again, and I can’t hack SS like I did the pension admin.
Because of DSHS’s errors, the nursing home keeps sending erroneous bills. I have to call them twice a month to get things straightened out. I have to call repeatedly until I get a person because the business office person doesn’t respond to messages or emails.
Those are just a few examples. Don’t even get me started on trying to figure out her tax status, etc. She signed a POA when she was still competent, but it’s a huge struggle to get anyone to accept it. Just getting access to her $500 checking account took three two-hour visits to her bank.
I know we are very lucky that she is being cared for. But how do you cope with the constant benefit crises? Does it get easier? Would she be better served if we just bowed out and let the state deal with the finances? I would love to hear if anyone has gone this route and if it worked; or if you didn’t, why not.
I agree that the bureaucracy can be maddening. We sent back some paperwork to DHHS in December indicating that some of my brother in law's information had changed -- social security went up, health insurance went down, less money left in his IRA -- and we never received acknowledgement and the amount he has to pay toward his care hasn't changed even though his monthly income is now slightly different. His annual renewal is in April, so presumably they will catch the changes then.
Best of luck!
The only helpful (for me as POA) thing I’ve learned to do is to deal with PEOPLE as often as possible.
This is of course a HARD THING TO DO since the pandemic, but even just talking to a HUMAN on the phone rather than recorded voice on the phone, is worth being on hold as long as it takes.
I just went through a situation like this because I had no 1099 from SS. I know that it would have been easier on me and SS if I’d gone online, but by sitting “on hold” for 15 minutes or so I had the assurance of having a NAME and a commitment of 7- 10 days, and the needed for came in 5.
Good luck with this.
Does ur POA stipulate its only in effect if a Doctor or Doctors declare Mom incompetent. If so, you may want to get a letter from the Dr/s stating this and keep with your POA. I live in a small town so I had no problem with my POAs being excepted. I had the 8 x 14 in document shrunk down to 8x11. Easier to copy on my home printer. Mom and I banked at the same bank so they knew us. The bank had a copy on file. All Moms doctors had a copy. Government entities like SS do not honor POAs. I am also immediate POA for my nephew and have never had a problem there either. But I know members on the site have had problems. Thats why I always suggest using a lawyer to write up POAs.
Now her taxes. Because most of Moms money was SS she did not need to pay taxes to IRS or the State. Moms pension was only 2400 a year, just her pocket money. There is a cap of what you can earn a year over and above SS. If you don't go over that cap, then there is no need to pay taxes on SS and anything under that cap after ur a certain age. My Mom and MIL both got letters from IRS telling them they no longer needed to file taxes. Both also Widows. Check with a good tax preparer about this.
I was POA and Trustee of Trust for my bro who was in my state but on the other end of it. I have dealt with banks, with IRS, with SS, and with SPECTUM phone which was amazingly the worst of all. I know what it is to be anxious to the point of unable to hear, to wait hours and hours on the phone.
So yes, you can resign. Do it legally with an attorney and that means sending your letter of resignation to every entity you gave your POA papers to, whether that is bank or credit company or facility your Mom is in.
This means they must get a Social worker to get a judge to appoint a fiduciary to manage your Mom's care. As she has nothing, the state will pay for this. BUT know that at that point you will have nothing to say about where your Mom is placed or in what condition. You will have given up rights to act for her.
Consult an elder law attorney in your Mom's state; this can be done by phone or zoom almost certain. Have the basic facts at hand. As Mom is already on medicaid likely that will be easily done, and she has nothing, so there is nothing really to declare.
Tax status is easy. You get her taxes done with a CPA; she has no income. He will help you decide how to file, likely with her making a mark and you signing POA, but do know that POA isn't recognized by IRS and they want a whole OTHER set of filings. If you haven't done that yet you will be, yes, more frustrated than you are right now. EVERYONE want something different and different papers, SS, IRS and banks. It can be a nightmare. I have been there. I have been there with my little bottle of 5mg valium, 10 pills for one year, cluthing it in my hand and thinking "OK, can you do this without 1/2 valium or must you take it now". Hee hee. It's a trip. I could write a book. And that was with an organized, with it, financially comfortable, agreeable brother with a diagnosis of probably early Lewy's Dementia. Am I glad I did it? Yes. Would I do it again? Not on your life.
Do talk to an attorney. Get all the pros and cons lined up.
In answer to some of the questions, in our state, DSHS handles Medicaid acceptance. I will say that they were good about approving her — it only took three weeks! We did have to submit proof when we first applied, but they learned that her pension can get a cost of living raise twice a year, so that’s why they wanted another pension letter almost immediately. (Her pension actually did go up by about $1, ha ha.)
The tax preparer suggestion is a good one. We did send in the IRS POA paperwork and ask for a transcript, but that was 7 weeks ago and we’ve heard nothing. We suspect that FIL may have unpaid taxes (and MIL’s name would be on the returns too). If I can just dump this problem on a professional to handle, it would be worth whatever they charge. We were trying to do the right thing, but now I wish we hadn’t told the IRS we were involved! Hopefully they will continue to ignore our letter.
The phone company comment made me laugh. Of all FIL’s creditors, the only one that has been impossible to work with was the cable company. They are worse than all the others put together!
Thanks so much to all who replied. I do feel better just having vented and hearing some other experiences and reality checks.
Yep, after hours and hours of getting a phone in for my bro Spectrum magically just shut it off. To get it back on took me an entire day talking to people all over the USA and in a couple of countries as well. It can make you laugh when it is over, but at the time I thought I would go mad.
She doesn’t have any money to pay lawyers or accountants, but DH & I are able to pay some reasonable fees just to protect ourselves.
As for changing the payee if you move your MiL, I'm pretty sure that can be changed.....BUT it'd probably be yet another bureaucratic hassle, requiring umpteen documents, in triplicate, signed in blood, etc......sigh....
Regarding SS and pension, my brother had them assigned to the NH/Medicaid. Let them figure things out! It hasn't been a year yet, so I don't know if he still has to file a tax return for Mom every year. I'll probably hear about it if he does....
One thing I still wonder about, after reading all the responses: if you engage professionals to manage the financial matters, wouldn't payment to them come from your mother's assets, rather than yours? And wouldn't that payment have priority over Medicaid? In other words, a tax preparer or CPA, etc., would get paid first, as an acceptable expenditure by your MIL of her money, and then Medicaid would get what is left. I'm certainly not sure about this, and I hope someone else can clarify this point.
I sent my somewhat estranged biological father and his sweet wife to Assisted Living after about 14 months of daily care for their administrative needs. That was in Nov. 2021. They still call me quite often and ask me to do things. The partially state funded AL does very little to help them, although they're big talkers. They have massive turnover, and I suspect the boss is a tyrant on the side. But the deal is this: that I recognize in myself the distinct signs of PTSD.
When they moved into AL, I finally moved home to my own state. I had spent nearly 5 years living in a state I hate, taking care of my mom who raised me, my step dad, and my mentally handicapped auntie. And then I moved my father and his wife nearby, and their needs mushroomed until they took up +20 hours every week - and I work full time for myself. My mom's dementia worsened, and both my dads have a lot of physical issues. As I reply, it's now early March and I can still feel it in my body, although it's calming down. Still, when I call any one of them, although it's been nearly 5 months now, I feel a physical response in my body that isn't good. Worse still when they call me.
So all I can say is this: some people can handle this journey. I could not. And that's OK. I'm not saying this to whitewash your decision, only you will know, but I started this healthy, 30 lbs lighter than I am now, and with a glorious life, thinking I'd help out for just one year. I may never recover from the strain.
Please, put the oxygen mask on yourself first. You're all you've got. xoxo
Not the OP, but if you don't mind my asking, and if -- and only if -- you've got the strength and capacity to answer: If you knew then what you know now, how do you think you'd have handled things differently? What would you have done instead?
She needs family in charge who care about her. The state does NOT!
If you feel you are unable then ask someone in the family to take your place.
In the end, as I wrote, our family was able to get Mom settled in a decent NH not far from where my brother lives, we are pleased with her care, and (best of all) she has a nice roommate and seems to like most of the aides who care for her.
Yes, it's a PITA to deal with this stuff, but once it gets rolling and the kinks straightened out, it'll be fine. I would never relinquish control to the state. That's a one-way trip, and you probably won't like how they handle things.
Second, you do not owe the nursing home any access to her bank accounts or assets. Insist that they send you a bill every month. A written and detailed bill. Many nursing homes have dedicated staff who take good care of the residents because some actually care.
The business and 'administration' of all nursing homes operate in underhanded and often illegal ways. Families with a loved one in a facility don't know this so they just hand everything over all at once. Even money they are not entitled to.
Insist on a written detailed bill every month from the nursing home. Totally itemized for everything they're billing for. You will find that they are probably demanding cash payment for things that are paid for by Medicare and Medicaid.
Make sure you communicate with Medicare and Medicaid regularly to know what they're paying for and what they aren't.
If Medicaid is already paying then your MIL's money would be owed to them not the nursing home.
Proof of your MIL's pension and Social Security is called a bank statement. This money is directly deposited into her account and that is proof of how much it is.
When my father was in the nursing home after his stroke I was bombarded with sometimes up to 15 and 20 calls or voicemails a day from the nursing home's business department. This harassment was because I wasn't making their life easier by allowing them to just take what they wanted. I insisted on every bill and went over it with a fine-toothed comb. They were billing every months for drugs and medical therapies that his insurance was paying for. They were trying to bill us separately for services that were included as part of his room and board in the facility. Ignore some of the calls. Screen them. Examine and question every bill too.
My father's nursing home had to refund us almost $8,000 that they illegally stole because Medicare and his secondary insurance were paying 100% at the time. This only happened because I requested proofs from Medicare. A packet about 500 pages front and back that I had to sift through to find the proof that they paid.
It was a very hard time for some time with these people. It is the same for you right now and will be for the next several months.
When the business end of your MIL's nursing home realizes that you will not back down, they will begin to.
Also, make a call to the probate court once a week in the town your MIL is in to make sure the nursing home isn't petitioning for conservatorship behind your back. They do this too and tried with me.
If you stay a thorn in their side they will walk the straight and narrow and your MIL will be well cared for. Also, Medicaid will allow you to make pre-paid funeral arrangements for your MIL paid for out of her funds. It's a good idea to do that. No one is owed any insurance policies that are over five years old either.
:) :)