If my father doesn't ever qualify for Medicare and runs out of money, will I (daughter) be liable?

No matter what answers you receive here, consult an attorney!

Just went to an attorney to find out a few things, mostly about a gift issue and if my father moves into an assisted living place and then runs down all his $$ to $2400 (that's the magic number for medicaid where I live) then the nursing home and medicaid use a formula to decide how long they will withhold paying and they apply the gift money as part of that formula. Too much information for your needs right now--but another thing the attorney mentioned is that the children are not responsible for the debts of the parents, particularly if the child or children did not manage the money for the parents. That means that if you were the person controlling your parent's money (via power of attorney) and you spent away money that was not yours, then your parent would be on the hook and so would you. In your father's case, it sounds like he spent his money frivolously - but per another initial attorney I had spoken to, unless the facility feels that the individual has ample funds to pay for the facility, they will not be encouraging them to move there. He also mentioned that in many cases, they do not put the person on the street and will work with the funds they do have. Of course, there is a huge difference in assisted living as opposed to skilled nursing care. Your father will rip through his last $20K so fast your head would spin if he has to go to SNC facility. The person above is right--get a consultation from an attorney where you live, because things are very different, state to state.

The fact that you are your dad's POA does not mean that you are responsible for his poor decisions. You can be a POA for someone who still makes their own decisions. Your job is to step in when they can no longer make decisions for themselves, meaning they are unconscious. Or you can handle their finances if they ask you to do so. Having said that, POA is not the same as guardianship. If your dad was deemed incompetent via a long legal process, then you would be the only one controlling all aspects of his financial life. You are not in that role. He has very right to screw up his finances. The only place you could get in a bind is if you have taken his funds for your own personal use. Medicaid would penalize his acceptance into the program for gifts he gave to you.

Can you list his time shares and put their value at zero? I think that is something you can fight, but you do need to see an attorney that specializes in dealing with Medicaid qualification. That could be an elder attorney and probably is. Talk to your local area on aging for a good referral. I've used their free attorney before and find them very lacking.

Hugs, Cattails

Cattails and I agree that if you are custodian of his money, then it must be used for his care and living expenses only, which it appears you are doing beautifully. Please lay all of this out to an attorney in your state as soon as you can. It will be the best few hundred dollars you can spend. An elder law atty. can also help you work with medicaid when the time comes and he is literally out of money.

PS The term "filial responsibility" was the reason my sibling and I went to an elder law atty. in the first place because we wanted that explained to us fully. We learned that even if you are estranged from your parent, a nursing home (not medicaid) will sue the children for an unpaid bill, so in that regard, you are correct. At least in the states in which my sibling and I live (two different states).

Here are the states that have filial responsibility laws: Alaska, Arkansas,
California, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa,
Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Montana,
Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, North Dakota,
Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota,
Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, and West Virginia

This does not necessarily mean that you will automaticaly have to pay the NH, and many factors are considered. But in those states the NH would be more apt to sue you in an attempt to collect from you.

Your best bet is to do what it takes to get Dad qualified for Medicaid. How will you do this? See a lawyer specializing in Elder Law. (Have you heard that advice before?) I would think that it is the $20,000 rather than the worthless timeshares that are keeping him from qualifying, but the lawyer can advice you.

Meanwhile, do not sign anything making you personally responsible for your father's obligations. For example, do not enroll him in a NH as a Medicaid Pending resident and sign saying that you will be reponsible if Medicaid does not come through. Consult with an attorney as soon as you can. (And it is Dad's money you should be using to pay for this service.)

Jeannes right, dont sign anything. If you were responsible for spending your Dads money, say you signed a check, they can come after you. The timeshares will have a lein put on them and he will go into a nursing home just fine, however, he will not leave any inheritence, but they dont owe us one anyway.
I would pay that HMO immediately, if Dad has a heart attack and the bills is 100,000 he better be covered, insurance is so important. Good luck.

You need a elder law atty., end of story. With $20K he is not able to apply for or qualify for medicaid. You just need to have your ducks in a row with an elder law atty. and then cross the other bridges if and when you come to them. Don't pay anything or sign anything without expert advice. Take your questions, your concerns, your figures and paperwork to him or her, and take notes. Do let us know how you make out. Hugs and prayers to you.

DAUGHTER 1986 was not referring to a "Health Maintenance Organization" by HMO--she was referring to the
membership maintenance agreements used by the TIMESHARES.

Oh--and there is something you might try with those time shares--those profiteering rip-offs are epic at taking money, and strong-arming more from members as long as they are allowed to keep doing it--PT Barnum would even be aghast at their games.
IMHO, TimeShares are a scourge on owners of Shares, and also on owners of the facilities, if those are often traded as often with camping memberships. The condos are a whole 'nuther nightmare!
People sooo sucker for believing they can pass something nice to their families.

There are a couple Possible ways to off-load them:
1. Ask the proposed nursing home if the deeds to those TimeShares can be signed over to the nursing home?
If so, DO IT, and let THEM figure out how to deal with them!
IF NOT, THEN:
2. The membership/maintenance dues have not been paid in at least a year--
perfect!!!
That helps ruin Dad's credit ratings, making buying more difficult for him to pull off.
It also makes his data less attractive to I.D. theft.
It is also a first step in divesting him of those TimeShares.
---Have you contacted them anytime recently to tell them of the situation?
---There might be key words to use [elder law can help provide those, I hope!], and it will need put in writing. [words like "harassment" and "elder abuse", and "destitute", for instance].
Step one:
Get letters from TimeShare sellers and the TimeShare organizations, that the timeshares your Dad owns are valued at $______,
with membership dues of $______.
IF you have the contracts at hand, you might be able to find wording in the contracts telling how to handle relinquishment; otherwise, you must call the organizations to try getting it out of them...
---KEEP SCRUPULOUS CALL RECORDS AND PAPER RECORDS OF ALL ATTEMPTS TO SELL OR OTHERWISE OFF-LOAD THOSE MEMBERSHIPS!!!
The NH and the State will need proof that you tried to sell them, were unable to do so--any papers you have to substantiate that, are important.

Construct a letter to each TimeShare, advising them that:
---a POA has taken over the owner's affairs,
---The Time Shares cannot be paid for in any way, any longer.
---You advise them that no payments will be sent.
--- State that this letter is formal announcement of forfeiture of ownership or affiliation with the Timeshare[s], effective immediately, that the organizations are to repossess them immediately.
---Request they send a letter to the POA stating end of contract, to include with your Dad's paperwork.
---They might require a copy of the POA allowing you to transact your Dad's business.
---These letters need sent "return receipt requested", so you have record that they got delivered, and who got them.
Also, [[you might save this nugget for IF they continue to pursue Dad's estate]] DEPENDING on the tone they took with you when you called them for guidance on off-loading the TimeShares, you might include that any further harassment of the elder or the estate will be considered elder abuse, and turned over to the State Attorney General.

While Dad may have used up all his reverse mortgage, it is possible there might be something left---depending on how that agreement was constructed.
BUT, since it is a RM, the lender usually owns that property now, and after Dad has been in the NH for a specified number of months, they take it over.
There is USUALLY nothing left for a NH to garnish.
It is easier to simply let them take it, than for you to try to sell it, unless you really know that profit can be made, enough to mitigate the costs involved in private-selling it. Just make sure you get anything family belongings out of there, ASAP, before an auction happens.

Please DO find an Elder lawyer.
Check with your LOCAL Area Agency on Aging, to see if one of the volunteer lawyers that put time in there, can help you...those are free consults.
Ask them about TimeShare relinquishment, too--maybe they can give you more pointers, or point you in a new direction to help for that, if the above is not enough.

The lawyer and I have chatted. I live in one of those states that Jeanne mentioned as Filial Law responsible. However, he says let the NH sue. Go ahead let them. If there is no money in the estate, a NH will not persue collection from a daughter/son/spouse UNLESS their name appears on the application papers or
the maintenance papers. Lesson here: don't sign anything.
If you must place him in a NH, then let the signature reflect a person who is not directly involved, such as a Social Worker, or a Placement Counselor.

VEry good advice N1K2R3 !!!

I appreciate the comment above and if I could pick and choose which lawyer advice I "like best" it would be N1K2R3's attorney. I too live in a filial responsibility state and other attorneys' advice may disagree with his. Read the article link. I found it awhile back because of my own personal concerns with this matter and my discussion with our elder law attorney, prompted me to research this. Again, though, see an elder law atty. just as this article suggests, as most of us here on this thread have as well. It really feels very unfair that a baby boomer with their own looming issues with their own retirement and their own personal financial issues could be impacted by a parent who is living to a ripe old age. Taxpayers are paying for Medicaid for the indigent, but couple the fact that people are living longer with the blatant misuse and illegal abuse of these funds are causing the programs to run short of money. The nursing homes are growing weary of writing off tons of bad debts and are pursuing them more aggressively now.